a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
You are not logged in.
Pages: 1
I was born in one of these villages, and you'd think the mom could have just left me starve. Nope, had to make me waste time following her as she "worked" until she knifed me outside of the village. I should have known it was suspicious she only asked her son to go with her.
TrustyWay wrote:Killers are easy to counter while griefers aren't.
People here don't understand that people can kill for any reason, no only griefing, most of the time there is a context behind. While griefing is ... just griefing.
Easy to counter if you are one of those who are not squeamish about carrying a knife or hiding a bow or two. I have run into to many people who just assume a knife is useless except for killing people.
They are fine with you giving them a new pair of snakeskin boots, never wondering how you got them.
Or taking that beautiful new horse for a ride, sometimes without asking, never wondering how you were able to "saddle" it.
They happily eat some mutton when they are starving never imagining how you killed the sheep that just fed their entire family.
If Jason want's us to have a more nomadic existence I think hunting need's to be more able to sustain an entire tribe like it did for ancient nomadic peoples with concomitant animal resources, perhaps the bison of north america?
I've been killed more than twice for making a knife or bow in front of power-trippers who want to be the only one with a weapon (or scarred people with a bad memory of a griefer...)
Suicide should not be a way to get back to the village of your choice and screw over your eve.
Also, hit points don't change anything.
They make it harder to murder, but also harder to kill griefers.
Same with armor or whatever. And how would more weapons help? Or making every tool deadly?
All those things would help murderers as much as town guards.
The majority of players are trying to play the game productively rather than grief or murder. The problem is, right now, if someone does want to grief or murder, it's far too easy for them to do so. A single murderer with the only deadly weapon in town can terrorize and kill dozens. It's really easy and I see it happen all the time. All they have to do is scrounge up the maybe 1 or 2 knives and bows around, and then it's absolute carnage.
In the game right now, having the only knife in town is kind of like having the only machine gun in town. It creates a huge power imbalance that is completely unconnected to reality, where people can always bonk the guy with a club or whatever they happenn to have lying around. I could understand if it was for fun, but there's nothing realistic or fun about that, except for the murderer!
I'm no game designer and I may be overlooking some key balancing issues. Just the same, I really dislike the "karma" system and other suggestions that punish the player for doing what the game mechanics allow them to do (although I'm partial to the idea that someone who killed a lot gets reborn with a mark of some kind, that fades with time, because that's not punishment per se, that's just propagating the info through reincarnation). I feel that allowing more deadly tools or allowing bonking a player over the head with a club, "stunning" them, changes the equation dramatically, because normal players outnumber the griefers and murderers.
Thanks for the post Jason, and also for making the game! I don't like the idea of extra-game policing via some server-side system because it should be solvable within the game mechanics itself. It should be easier to stop murderers without having to resort to a bow & arrow or a knife.
There are game balancing issues to consider, but if we can club seals, why not griefers? In the real world, getting bonked over the head with a shovel would certainly at least stun you. Why not in-game? This certainly goes both ways though and might not work out in practice (since the griefers get to do this too), but it would be nice if this could be improved through better in-game tools rather than resorting to player-level sanctions (at which point, maybe you should just heavily restrict or remove murder from the game if it's against the rules).
I don't think any changes are needed on a player level -- it's One Hour, One Life after all. However, it should be easier to stop murderers. Right now murderers and tyrants have a vast power advantage, because the only way to stop them is to kill them, which is hard to do if they're the only one with a weapon.
We can club seals over the head with a long shaft. Why not players? A mining pick or an axe would be deadly if you whacked a player over the head with them. Why not in the game? Also, it would reduce the paranoia around someone making a knife if it's not the only deadly weapon.
If everything is deadly, then it becomes too easy to accidentally kill other players. Maybe that could be adjusted by having a basic health system -- getting whacked with a long shaft or a shovel drops your food by some points, while getting hit by an axe would still kill you after the 20 seconds. Some food for thought?
The suiciding babies can be really frustrating. I have played at least one round as an Eve where every single baby went off to suicide, and I went gray from old age. However, it doesn't always happen; I have also had games where every kid stuck around and we could get things going. I think it also depends on if there's a big town on the server or not -- people try to respawn in the town instead of roughing it out in the wilderness.
I have seen so many villages destroyed because of a rogue murderer killing everyone, or a griefer messing things up, and all we could do is stand around, helpless, with no weapons around in sight to defend against the griefer.
Clearly, having just one or a couple of weapons around makes it easy for a tyrant with bad intentions to come and cause trouble. However, does it make sense for more players to have access to weapons? Is that even safe? I wanted to share a few anecdotes.
---
In the first village I spawned in, I noticed that things were pretty heavily guarded, with a guy in blue running around with a bow & arrow, checking up on the farm and basically just hanging around. I noticed the farm was low on seeds so I decided to do a few runs and collect wild seeds from the surroundings.
Then, the trouble started. While going about my business, I would notice blood stains here and there, and the population seemed to be thinning out. I have no idea what was happening, but then I noticed the guy in blue was going around killing everyone, and nobody was stopping him. While observing him, he noticed me and took out his knife, and I moved out of the way just in time to see him stabbing empty air.
I kept an eye on him and saw some text about how he would let the "worthy" survive or some crap like that. I didn't find any other weapons, but I can't abide a place run by a bigoted tyrant like that, so I decided to become the griefer and I sowed the fields with wheat, dug up all of the berries, and let the sheep out of the pen. A better alternative would have been to kill the rogue guard, but that wasn't possible with him hoarding all of the available weapons.
---
In the second village I spawned in, my mom took good care of me and told me to be strong and take care of the village. I saw the same problem with the farm here too -- a lack of seeds and some people letting the carrots seed removing good soil, so I spent my early years collecting seeds for the village.
When I grew older, my ma asked me to go north and fetch a wolf pelt for her, so I grabbed a cart, a bow & arrow, some food and must have walked north for a few minutes before I finally found a wolf. I didn't see any others, so I came back with one wolf pelt. Unfortunately, something had happened to my ma in the meantime and she was gone.
Remembering what had happened before, I decided to spend my adult years crafting knives and teaching the villagers to keep an eye out for griefers and murderers, and to keep the weapons safe. I was in the middle of crafting the first knife when my aunt comes to check up and ask me what I'm doing. When I explain, she says "fat chance" and scrapped the blade. I started explaining how in past lives, towns have been griefed due to no defence, when she takes out her knife and says "like this?", and then stabs me. In cold blood. In full view of everyone.
This death is the first death in the game that bothered me, because until then I had been doing my best to make a positive contribution to the village, but not only that -- nobody even questioned my getting stabbed by my tyrant of an aunt who was hoarding all of the knives to herself.
I can understand the logic of not wanting a griefer to craft a weapon, but I have already seen in many villages that when only one person has weapons, they often become the griefer themselves. If I wanted to grief or murder, I would have already done it with my bow and arrow or with the shovels lying around. This was a really unfair murder, and nobody even thought twice about it. If someone tries this shit with me again when I'm only trying to help, I'm going to grief the shit out of them in retaliation.
---
The third village I spawned in was an entirely different story. This village was run by a wise king, who had not just one but several guards running around with bows & arrows. From birth, I was chosen to go on a mission to found a village up north along with two females. The king gifted me a knife and a bow & arrow and a cart full of food for the two women, and then escorted us part of the way before we went off on our own.
Unfortunately the mission itself wasn't a great success. The first woman stepped on a rattlesnake and died instantly. After finding a spot, the second one died after giving birth to one girl. Fortunately she made it to childhood in time, and we decided to go back south to the old village. Along the way we came across the dead king, and as we were getting close, I somehow stepped on a rattlesnake myself. Argh! Next time, I think we should go east or west -- much easier to see the snakes that way.
This was the best-run village I had come across -- lots of clothes, a well-run food system and most in line with what I think should be done -- weapons not just in the hands of one, but in the hands of several.
While playing last night, in one game in a town I must have had over 12 kids, while in other games as an Eve, I'd be lucky to get a couple. Not sure how the spawning works but I've also noticed most babies suicide if you're an Eve and there's a town to respawn in, which is also quite frustrating.
I've been running into this too -- makes the game very hard to play since the hunger bar doesn't lag!
Last night, I had spawned as an "Eve Grief", and raised a small family of productive farmers and trappers in a small village that had seen better days. We were doing well, when I became old and it was time to reincarnate into the next life.
I was born in many other families, running off into the wilderness trying to get back to my family of Griefs, when I was born to a "Hope Doom". I was running off into the wilderness like before, when Mom comes and catches me with one bar of food remaining! I thought "wow, what a mom" so I didn't jump off, and she brought me all the way back to the fire. She named me Dahlia, but unfortunately I died of starvation a few years later. I was born again as a son to her, and managed to make it to adulthood and help the Doom clan out.
In my last game, I was a Ho at the center of a growing empire. The roads spanned all over the place, and it could take a literal over 5 minutes just to walk from one side to the other. Near the end of the game, the center was destroyed by 3 rampaging bears and a religious nut who murdered the survivors, but the Hos lived on. I wonder how they're doing today.
Jorge wrote:...
Ironically, I respawned as her son and she gave me the very same knife to "keep safe".
The question is whether or not you "kept the knife safe", or you stabbed her in the back out of vengeance?
...
Nah, I tend not to carry grudges from life to life -- I'll roleplay the situation I'm born in which is part of the fun. Occasionally I'm the griefer, occasionally I'm chasing off and killing other griefers and defending my family. She was acting normally so I played my part.
I was born in a village where ma warned me about the men. I grew up to have babies of my own, and one of my babies kept asking for a knife or a bow and arrow. Ma told me to keep an eye on this one and to not let any of the men have weapons, so I told my son to listen to Grandma and focus on something else.
Later, my son came to me and asked me for a bow & arrow so he could fight off a bear. I asked him to lead me to the bear and he disappeared. When he returned, he was holding a bow & arrow, and had just one word to say to me: "Mom."
The next thing I know, everything is fading to black with the words "Killed by bow & arrow"...
Did my other children make it, or did brother kill them all? I'll never know.
I saw this putz in one of the villages I spawned in. He first showed up with a bow and arrows in a cart while terrorizing the babies with this story, and then later he started picking off people one by one. While he was trying to do that, I knifed the putz right in the side, and he was no more.
Unfortunately while I was re-organizing my mom's knife, an Eve waltzed in and stole it right from me. Suspecting bad intentions, I tried to arrow her and in the ensuing fight, someone ended up arrowing me (maybe suspecting me for another griefer). Ironically, I respawned as her son and she gave me the very same knife to "keep safe".
Pages: 1