a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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When a berry/carrot bowl has been mashed, there's nothing to do with it but make compost, unless whoever happens to find it goes off and puts it somewhere random outside of the colony. Then you can go and gather a reed, and not have to worry if it's going to be used by someone else, because you're already using it.
This isn't true, I had someone swipe my berry/carrot mash to feed a sheep, which then went around eating carrot rows and creating dead babies everywhere and was never actually shorn because there were no shears in the settlement. They can also be used to make berry-carrot pies.
It seems like you need a full berry bush to get a bowl full of berries now, which somewhat hinders the idea of (kind of) infinite compost.
I don't know why you wouldn't take the last berry off the bush. you have to water domestic berry bushes when they are depleted of berries, which leads me to believe that the berries will not regrow until you water the bush.
Yeah, berries will not regrow until the bush is picked clean and then watered, so the best thing if you pick any is to pick them all and then water so they grow back as soon as possible. However, if you can't or won't water it after you pick the last one, then it's best to leave one on because an empty bush that's not watered will eventually die, making it a waste of the soil it was planted in and requiring steel tools to remove.
Hah, to be honest, it's nice to hear people are starting to clean up more, most places I'm the one trying to tidy up and put things together. I'd never put leaves or tinder in baskets though, they fade so quick it's not worth it, even if someone weren't about to use them.
If it's a quick fix, I'd like to suggest making it so that you can't keep eating if your hunger meter is full, to prevent griefing by eating all the food. I've suggested a more complicated system on the suggestions reddit, but if this is a simple edit I think it'd be worth it to put in place until you have the time to implement a more nuanced system if that's what you'd prefer.
I don´t agree with 1. and 2.
As a baby I often walk around the base to see whats going on and where the farm is as this saves valuable time and thus food (mothers give full foodmeter without using any carrots, while looking around as a grown up actually costs carrots).
This could be helpful in certain circumstances, but if your mom picks you up she might want to actually show you around and tell you certain rules that you might not be able to figure out on your own (eg. "This row for seeds"). I often pick children up so they are fed while I talk to them so I don't have to worry about them starving while I explain things.
Your mom might also want to bring you to a fire. If you are running around as a baby when you could be by a fire, you are wasting food because you are making your mother feed you more, which means she has to eat more, and also wasting her time making her chase you around.
If you're out in the wilderness or the settlement is struggling, your mom might need to carry you to get both of you quickly to food.
The point is, when you first spawn in you don't know the entire situation, and should not be running around, and you definitely shouldn't be jumping out of your mother's arms if she is trying to pick you up and take you places. If a baby runs off on me I do not run after them. If they come back I will pick them up, but I'm not going to waste time and calories on a baby that is going to make me chase them. Young children still walk slowly and shouldn't wander too far from the camp even once they can feed themselves, so that would be a better time for exploring, especially since at that point you know you're going to live long enough for it to even matter.
I think it's odd that carrot-rabbit pies are completely discounted because "who wants to catch rabbits" when, if you are making clothes as suggested, you will already have rabbits to use and they would add calories that take no water or soil to make.
Edit: Okay, the argument was who wants to catch 30 rabbits an hour, but I think part of the problem with posts like these is that they are assuming people are being completely efficient. When I bake pies in-game I'm usually having to grow the wheat and make compost myself, sometimes stop to fire more plates, run off to fetch water to make dough, stop to make a fire, raise a kid, or help a new player, etc. I'm lucky if I get six pies out before I die, and that's assuming I start in a settlement that already has a carrot farm, fire-making tools, oven, kiln, etc.
I don't know if that makes it more or less efficient to make pies, but if there are already people doing the carrot farming, then why shouldn't I aim for the thing that is more efficient in regards to space or portability instead? It's more fun if you're not just doing the same thing every game anyway.
When you plant carrot seeds they will grow into carrots after a set amount of time. If you harvest them then you will then have carrots to eat (obvioiusly). However, if you don't pick them and let them stay in the earth for longer, they will eventually grow into flowers which you can pick to get carrot seeds from, but not carrots to eat. If they go to seed they will also use up the fertile soil they were growing in, so you have to replenish it with either more fertile soil you find in the wild, or by making compost.
This post is about figuring out how many carrots you need to let grow until they become seeds in order to keep growing carrots that you can eat without having rows lie empty because you don't have any more seeds to replant after you pick the carrots at the eating stage. Also, so that you don't let too many go to seed and use up a lot of fertile soil you didn't need to.
Hope I explained that okay!
I use O all the time for "Oh" as a reaction. If mom is old I'll just jump down and run to food or another mother and ask for food again.
Also, just remembered K - "Okay"
I don't recommend using H. A lot of babies will type "H" and then "I" as a greeting, so you might panic thinking baby needs help when really they're just saying hello. I'm also not really sure what kind of help they could be asking for other than food.
For warmth, I'm not sure what good this will do. If a player knows that it's good to put babies by fires they usually will if they can. If they don't know, they probably wouldn't recognize the code or understand what it means anyway. I suppose if someone just forgot because they got distracted by other things it could be a reminder, but that's pretty limited in usefulness.
I like the idea of typing F if you're at two squares and ! when you're at one though. That way mom knows if she has a second to finish what she's doing or has to drop everything immediately. Actually getting enough people to use it so that it's understood is the trick though.
Here's a good question to ask yourself to prove my point. When was the last time you were born as a female and were rejected because a well run tribe specifically wanted / needed males?
The last game I just left was refusing any new females because they were putting a strain on the population when they came of age and started having babies all over the place. Males were allowed. The one daughter rule is very common for this exact reason. It's included as one of the major Tenets, in fact.
As far as I am aware I don't think there is any penalty whatsoever for giving birth
There was originally a big calorie expense for having a baby, but it was removed. Jason has said that he plans to add it back slowly over time, though.
A female could just as well travel away from the base and hunt and trap while ignoring children along the way.
Abandoning kids does not help with continuing the generations, so I don't understand why males are bad if the solution to not wanting to raise children is to just not do it. If it's so important you need to do it. If it's not important and you don't have to do it, then what's the complaint?
as a male you are always and forever (for an hour) going to be alone
How are you alone as a male? You can only exist as a male if you are born to another player. Help your mom and siblings, having babies is not the only way to help ensure the survival of the next generation.
you might get a lot done but you do nothing for the next generation, you can farm but a female could do that as well
Farming is not the only thing to do other than having babies. There is baking, carpentry, smithing, pottery, trapping, hunting, tailoring, composting, well-making, animal husbandry, knitting, wool dying, scavenging/gathering, and more to come as the game continues to be updated weekly.
In a recent game as a male I was able to get a lot done, making a good back-up of compost, building a cistern (and learning how to do it for the first time), and teaching a couple of others (both of which happened to be male as well) how to continue my work when I was gone, and I certainly didn't feel like I was alone or worse for the village at all. Almost every time I've had a chance to learn something I didn't know before it was because I was male and had more time and energy to spend on things that weren't immediate necessities.
Finally, you will only be this character for an hour, max, and you will have experiences as both genders as you play. Sometimes you will have to deal with having children, sometimes you won't. If you only prefer one kind of play, that's fine, but plenty of people have different preferences. Females have children whether they want them or not, males don't have them whether they want them or not. That is the balance.
Jason mentioned on discord that walls make fire cover a bigger area.
There was another update today, he made food give more calories, compost give more soil, domestic carrot seeds can be used twice, and carrot farms degrade more slowly. Please voice your concerns, but there's no need to panic! Try again with these new changes and see if that helps, or if you think further tweaking is still necessary.
He was just in the discord and is going to make some tweaks to the new farming system, he's also set the eating bonus back up, so food will fill you up more again.
Crop fields maybe can require being 'rotated' like an actual farm would be. You can't use the same spot indefinitely for a crop farm, so it would make sense that every now and then there can be signs you need to move to another field. Farmers will do that where they seasonally swap where they grow.
You do need to replenish soil by composting. Carrots only need it when seeding, but it still makes you put in extra work into the soil to sustain the farm. Crop rotation would be interesting, but I think composting is filling that niche atm.
There should be a way to breed live stock, so that people don't feel too comfortable living on just carrots. It would take time and effort to raise the live stock, but it could provide far more food that may sustain you longer.
You can breed live stock.
Keep knives and arrows in a backpack that someone's wearing, that way griefers can't use your own weapons against you.
you actually can select the individual items in a basket, with the exception of things like Basket of Soil and Basket of Coal, which are completely new items. It's tricky though, since the selectable area is so small since each item is being overlapped by the basket and other items put in after, so if you put in a smaller item and then a larger item after, the larger item can completely cover the smaller one so you can't get to it at all.
Edit: Also, buildings do make you warmer. Or so I've been told, haven't been many places with them myself.
Looking at the recipes, it doesn't appear that geese ever come back, whether they left because the water was drained or they were killed. Basically, once it's a "Pond" there's no way for it to become a "Canada Goose Pond" again.
Waiting for the SJWs to discover a game where males work harder/more because they're not stuck raising children, and women have to stay near their homes/firepits to feed and raise their kids.
Males have an easier time doing different work. Raising children is work, and not all females need to be involved in it. It is a bit more advantageous to do work closer to the village while you're of child-bearing age, so you can dump your kid at the fire for someone else to take care of, but it's still possible to go out and just have a kid follow you back while you carry whatever you went out for. I do it all the time, and it's actually necessary to do as an Eve. Similarly, males can raise children, and I have raised orphans as a male before, it's just not as resource efficient, and harder to do outside of settlements.
- an SJW who discovered the game
I think this is going to become even more relevant with today's update. Carrot farming will require composting to be sustainable now, which will make it harder to get up and running reliably. The good thing about trapping rabbits though, is that they do provide some food along with pelts for clothes, so it's not like you're completely sacrificing food production going that route.
This is definitely something I've seen people discussing before, and there are some good suggestions here. Here are some of my thoughts:
Home markers really aren't too important, you can get by without one if you have to, so not really worth the space imo.
Geese should not be hunted for food as they are an unrenewable resource, and should only be used for smithing where they're necessary.
Wearing a full suit of clothes means that when you die, someone will find them on you, and they can just put them on, so no need to worry about them taking space.
Only really need one snare and one water pouch when starting out, space would be better spent on something different.
Here's an example of a good kit that can fit on one person:
- Full set of clothes
- Backpack with Fire Dill Bow, Stone Hatchet, Water Pouch/Bowl, Snare
- Basket with Carrot Seed, Sharp Stone, Pie/Carrot
This has everything you need to start a farm, make a fire, and catch rabbits for tailoring.
If you only have a backpack, I'd recommend keeping the backpack contents the same as these are all constructed objects made from multiple parts, while the rest are much easier to find or make from nothing. You do have your hands free though, and I'd recommend carrying a sharp stone so you can make a basket when you get the chance.
If only a basket, I'd recommend Fire Drill Bow, Hatchet and Pouch/Bowl. If you already have clothes and something to water with, a snare is not as immediate of a concern.
Of course those set-ups both require finding food in the wild, so if that's a concern use the basket suggestion in the backpack along with some food. For the basket, get rid of the Hatchet as it's slightly easier to make than the Bow Drill.
These kits are also useful if your settlement is having a population problem and you want to gear up a kid to send out on their own. This helps contribute to there being more small camps to run across for Eves, and also helps continue the generational line if the main one collapses but some of the offshoots survive.
Xoomorg, ned, you have a valid point. Maybe this could be balanced by giving the disabled person certain perks that able-bodied people don't get.
A couple ideas:
If you can't walk, you need less food because you're not burning as many calories, and your hunger bar depletes more slowly.
If you can't see well, you can type more characters sooner because you need to rely more on verbal communication.
I think that theoretically adding disabilities would add interesting gameplay, as you would need to adapt your strategy for either playing or caring for these characters. I am worried that a lot of people will not want to deal with it though, especially at this phase of the game, and that players will just automatically either let these babies starve if it's a visible disability, or if you're born with one just run off and starve so you get reborn, as we already frequently see people letting babies starve based on sex, either males because they can't continue the generational line, or females because they're afraid of a population explosion that will wipe out the food supply.
From just a gameplay perspective, I'd say that's fine as people can choose if they want to participate in that particular gameplay element, but then there's a part of me that cringes thinking of a game where a popular strategy is to just kill disabled people, as that's a serious real-life issue, and disabled people actually do get murdered because their parents or caretakers don't want to or can't handle caring for them. Of course, making a simulator where disabled people simply don't exist isn't really great either. There is evidence that even ancient societies cared for those who couldn't contribute as much as others, so maybe it should be up to us as players to encourage the caring for those who need it. Maybe the current strategies of letting babies die is helpful immediately, on the small scale, but it creates patterns that will harm us in the long run, and we should focus on survival for all, and if we can't all survive together then we go down together.
The intersex idea I think would make things interesting and could also throw a wrench in the gender selection some players do. If it's possible that not all who appear female can have babies, having only one and killing the rest would be a more dangerous strategy. Likewise, even if you have children who all appear male, if it's possible that one could have babies your generational line may still be able to continue. Again, killing off all your sons with the hopes of eventually getting a daughter (who may not even be able to have kids) would be a less viable strategy because you could be inadvertently killing the child who could continue your legacy. This would most likely be relatively easy to implement as well, as it could just be a difference of appearance, and the mechanics could otherwise remain the same without having to add extra code. And of course, intersex people do exist in real life, and that's a pretty strong argument in and of itself.
Boys are useless mouths to feed, on average. Some experienced players will be more help than a drain, but one useless male can destroy a village by eating too much and not contributing. Females can breed, and continue the village. I usually support letting male babies starve, since they'll just respawn anyway. Sometimes if I'm born a male, I'll just run off into the woods myself and save my mother the decision.
In that game my eldest daughter did nothing except eat food and have babies, all of which died. She was just as "useless" as a male who did the same, except more of a burden, because having and feeding babies meant she ate more food. Even an incompetent male would have been less of a drain, but that was a story about a bit of roleplaying, it was not an actual commentary on game mechanics, and it is not how I usually play.
If you actually read the other posts I made on this thread, maybe you would have noticed the one where I was a male and built up a settlement after my family died, then died alone, and later found myself there again on another run, only now others had found it and were prospering on the work that I, a "useless male" had done. Or maybe the one where I only had a son survive to adulthood, was I "useless" as a female then because I failed to continue the family line, which is supposedly the only useful thing to do in this game? I mean, seriously, can people quit with this ridiculous idea. Or at least go do it in a different thread, this one is for fun stories.
Men can already carry more because they don't have to carry babies.
There is literally only one thing that females can do in game that males can't, and that thing can be as much a burden as a benefit. The idea that males are useless is ridiculous, unless you think that the only useful thing to do in game is sit around and pop out babies and nothing else. The game shouldn't be made unbalanced because some people have gotten this weird idea in their heads.
For gameplay reasons, keeping the time it takes to do things completely proportional would not work. If there were new trees every 24 hours, for example, they wouldn't really be a limited resource, you could just chop down all the trees and then the next day there would be more. Also, if everything was accurately scaled you'd have to make a lot more fires, because fires don't usually burn for years just because you added a single tree branch to it. In fact, you couldn't actually interact with the game fast enough, because you'd have to do a years worth of farming, eating, fire making, getting water, etc. all in one minute.
It's not a 100% accurate simulation, so some creative licence has to be taken to balance things so that they provide the challenge you want the game to have. There can be tweaking of course trying to hit the sweet spot of what's fun but challenging, but just trying to make all the times be exactly like in real life would not end up with a very good game.