One Hour One Life Forums

Probably because their government is monitoring every word they say.

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What he said.

I would love this, but if there were a lineage aspect, how would we identify specifically who is a part of that lineage? I imagine the only IDs the server gets from us are email, game key, and IP (though feel free to correct me), and those can't be published.

I bet Jason designed this intentionally, the little troll, such that the only way we could ever really know our lineage was to give a Genesis 36-like intro to each child we beget. And their children do the same, and on and on. But that sounds exhausting.

Which, again, brings up another excellent reason to include books and signs...

Aren't we vastly underestimating how often violence occurred in pre-bronze era times? Like my first encounter with violence in this whole game (playing since release date) was today, and I was born as someone's slave. The 'master' killed a girl who fed me because I didn't subject to his whims.

That seems pretty par for the course to me.

Jason already has like 100,000 things planned out or something like that. There will probably be a purpose to it.

Wait. You have crypto but not a bank account?

Yeah, im going to agree with Dagar on this one. There's a philosophy of life that basically says the community around you is a reflection of you. If you are patient and nice to others, they will be nice and patient, too. If you simply do your own work, even if it's efficient and helpful, others will do their own work (and if they're newer it won't be so helpful or efficient).

If you're complaining about how you're contributing when other people aren't, 1) you're not seeing the contributions others are giving, or 2) You're not giving the time to teach others your craft.

Dagar has a good point that player volume is increasing and, because of that, the knowledge of the average player hasn't grown much. That the 120 server is doing well is proof of this. But isolating those who don't know anything and playing the game only with those who already know what to do exacerbates this problem. It completely undermines the culture of the game that Jason is aiming for and reduces it to Don't Starve (which is a fun game but not as fun as this one).

It takes 4 min for watered carrots to grow. A carrot replenishes 8 food, and a naked person loses about 12 food / min.

A good rule of thumb is when there are roughly 2 baskets of carrots left per person, that's when it's time to replant.

Hey, that's a little harsh. Chill out, please. Goldra is referencing my thread on sustainability. Water is a large bottleneck in any farming system. The water demands needed to grow wheat and compost to make sustainable carrot-only pies are what make them less water-efficient than sustainable carrots farms. As I and others have mentioned in responses to that same thread, adding rabbits or gooseberries can make those pies more water-efficient. (though you need 20 wild gooseberry bushes or 30 rabbit holes nearby to match the same food output as an optimal carrot farm).

Keep in mind, too, that the cost of dough from domestic wheat is 1 soil and 2 water. When you're not sustainable, you will quickly run out of soil and possibly doom your civilization. With the short life-spans, though, you may not be around to see it.

Some issues.

Imagine for a second that a civ is big enough to build it's own well with an accompanying cistern. It probably has about 6 or 7 people running around doing whatever they do. Who is going to monitor how many times the well has been used? Who is going to remember to fill it up before each use, and why, when we have to fill it up before each use from a non-well source (i.e. pond), is that any better than using a pond?

A good and helpful graphic, but I still don't see a practical use for a well without a dipstick or buoy gauge of some sort.

Thank you so much! And maybe I have one in the works.

Hey Matok. I appreciated your responses and thoughts. You bring up some valid points, but before we go further, I just want to make sure we have a common understanding. The amount of pies you need to sustain a certain population isn't an efficiency calculation. Let's assume you're breastfed until age 6. If you're naked, you use 675 hunger pips in your lifetime. This changes to 306 when you're fully clothed in fur, shoes and all. When a full pie worth its salt gives you about 64 food, and if pies are all you eat, you'll need to cook 5 to sustain yourself, minimum. This is not negotiable. If you're living off of 3, that means you're taking food from somewhere else or perhaps unwittingly from someone else.

Okay, so now that we've got that out of the way...

Outright, I want to say that the message of this thread has not been "pies bad, don't make." As you say, pies provide a dense source of food; it's easier to store than carrots, and once you turn 25, you can carry a lifetime food supply of them in a basket (assuming you've laid down 10 milkweeds on clothes). This does, I admit, allow non-farmers to do more things by making fewer trips to the carrot basket. Farmers don't see this difference, because they're already so close to it that it wouldn't make a difference. I should also say that while my language about pies was blasé, I don't completely dismiss pies, nor do I say they're bad. I redid some calculations above and found they were really just a little more efficient, water-wise, so I don't think they're bad. I just avoid them for other reasons.

Regarding your comments on absolute efficiency and breakneck speeds: Yes, these models of farming calculate for optimal efficiency, and the time it takes to make water runs can be highly variable. 1.1 waters per min, admittedly, sounds like a fast speed. Lets allot 2 seconds for water unloading, and 2 for water loading: that means you need to have 6 ponds within a maximum average of 25 seconds, if you're carrying only one portable water source (PWS). A 10 year old could make this journey on a full stomach. Further, if you carry a basket with 3 PWS's (and if it takes 10 seconds to fully load, unload), that increases the time per one-way trip to 70 seconds. With a backpack of 4 PWS's, that becomes 90 seconds.

When you have a dedicated water carrier, that's not an unreasonable speed. The other tasks (planting, composting, harvesting, storing) can all be done by one person, a "farm master" if you will.

But why is water the primary efficiency measure? Because it is the only external input to the system (besides a negligible number of reeds), it is the primary predictor of food output: the rate-limiting step. You can roughly predict food output (and thus people supported) of a farm based on its water usage. When a carrot farm is sustainable and modeled after the diagram, it uses 1.1 water / min and generates roughly 35 food / min. A naked person uses 12.5 food / min, so this could support 2 naked people. If there are only 3 ponds nearby instead of 6, then max food output is roughly going to be halved to 17.5, and you can only support one naked person. The sustainability increases the number of ponds you need by 20%.

This is the point I want to hammer home.

====IF YOU READ ONLY ONE THING IN THIS WALL OF TEXT, PLEASE READ THIS!!!====

The sustainability costs of pies make them less viable. Without composting, carrot rabbit pies can give you some serious water efficiency. You use 2.67x less water per hour than carrot farming! You'd be crazy not to do it on those stats alone. However, soil consumption is a huge problem. Making only carrot pies, you use 23.5 soil per hour. This is halved when making only rabbit pies, but its still twice as much as the 6.6 soil needed per hour when carrot farming.

I mean, I think everyone should play the game how they want to. But the potential downside of making pies is that it increases water usage, which is high as it is already. Here is something I can say on that subject, though. 1 wheat makes 3 pies. A non-berry pie requires 1/3 water per pie (when using wild wheat), OR 2/3 water per pie and 1/3 soil per pie (when using domestic wheat). Since we use 5.5 ponds per hour, that leaves us with 6 spare water in the system (because a pond generates 12 water an hour). We also have 2 soil leftover in the system. We can combine that 6 spare water with 6 wild wheat, 18 rabbits and 18 carrots to make 18 pies (wow!). However, this isn't sustainable. Wild wheat does not grow back.

The pies that you eat now prevent other people from eating pies in the future.

If we want to be sustainable and plant wheat, that halves our pie/water output (9 total pies). The soil cost of growing three wheat for 9 pies is 3 soil, but we only have 2 per hour available. Without growing more berry bushes for composting (2 water per 3 soil), we're stuck at only making 6 pies, which can sustain you if you're fully clothed. You get 5 soil / hour surplus, but are now stuck with 4 spare water per hour, which keeps us at 6 pies.

So any more than 6 rabbit carrot pies on a regular hourly basis will give you a resource deficit somewhere, in water or soil, and cue the eventual downfall of civilization.

Overall, I would say this thread has convinced me of the benefits of pies, but I still prefer carrot farming.