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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#1 Re: Main Forum » At Present More Content Might Mean More Racism » 2020-08-17 21:51:16

For the record, I don't fault Jason for trying to force an economy and trade into the game. I just don't think it worked out in practice because the game was just never designed for it from the start.

I hold no ill feelings against Jason (as I know many do), but I do feel like he strayed away from his original vision of the game. I THINK the issue was that this big vision wasn't all fully fleshed out from the start. His vision evolved as he developed the game (rather than sticking to its roots) and this ultimately led to many of the changes causing people to quit the game. I think it is a classic case of trying to fix what wasn't broken while ignoring things that could really improve the game such as QoL (like he recently focused on), more in-game technology, alternate technology, new zones and animals, etc. I just wonder where the game would be if he focused on these elements the entire time instead of trying to transform the game into a different one.

Honestly, I think a lot of Jason's ideas that he tried to make work would've been best left for a follow-up game or sequel. I just think he tried to turn this game into something it wasn't.

For anyone returning, the actual 'soul' of the game is VERY different than it was upon release. This is not to say all is bad... I do think the game could be in its best state ever with a few significant updates just by going back to basics. But I am not a game developer, so what do I know?

#2 Re: Main Forum » At Present More Content Might Mean More Racism » 2020-08-17 21:09:02

While I think the intention of this mechanic was to encourage multi-racial cooperation for long-term success, I do agree that it does unnecessarily add some racist elements to the game.

It's not like your skin color prevents you from actually functioning correctly in the desert in real-life. I know this is a game, but it's just a bit strange. I think the random languages are really cool and really all that is needed as a distinction (besides appearance) between the races.

But, honestly, more than anything racial zone restrictions just add a lot of unnecessary frustration to the game.. To me, it makes the map feel smaller (and less dangerous) when you cannot interact with things in certain zones. I don't even remember the last time I had to dodge a snake. But that's just how the game is now. The villages are almost all late game and the game is super easy. It's complicated to learn new recipes but that often isn't what I feel like doing when I want to play.

Obviously it is a crafting game and always has been, but it also used be a survival game. I miss playing early civilizations and eve lives where I felt like I could actually die but make a significant impact if I didn't. I loved following up on these civilizations and seeing how far they would go. I enjoyed the challenge of trying to help a new Eve player start a successful civilization. I even enjoyed the fact that most villages just didn't work out even if you felt like you did everything humanly possible. I know there are Eve civilizations still but usually I feel like I am just stuck playing in the same three villages now. I know the player population might not support many new civilizations anymore, but I really do feel like this could be tuned up a bit...I can't be the only one that prefers playing in new civilizations.

While I have been playing again lately, I don't think I will ever enjoy it again in the way I used to. And that's because it just isn't the direction Jason chose for the game. My play style was almost completely phased out as viable way to enjoy the game anymore.

It is what it is, but I do think things like racial restrictions ultimately contributed to this. I think the game instantly gets better if this mechanic is completely removed.

I also personally miss the randomly generated map but that is a whole different discussion...

#3 Main Forum » Can something be done about zone restrictions? » 2020-08-05 00:31:47

dankm00dy
Replies: 6

I am a returning player after taking more than a year off from the game. I haven't played consistently since probably 2 years ago (when I would play the game for hours daily).

Upon returning, I was very pleased with the quality of life changes and additions to technology. The game definitely feels better in some ways than it ever has.

Despite this, I still firmly believe the game was more FUN two years ago than it is now for a few reasons.  I am not going to discuss them all, but instead focus on one of the worst changes ever made to this game... racial zone restrictions. I am shocked that this mechanic is STILL in the game after all this time.

I understand this mechanic was originally added to encourage trade, but for me (and what seems like most others), it is just painfully annoying and anything BUT fun. It seems like meta gaming with Discord is basically required to have any successful civilization. If you need to coordinate outside the game to have a successful city, then there is something wrong with the design.

Zone restrictions should be dropped completely. At the very least they need to be tweaked. Perhaps add passive buffs to different races or alternative technology to enter zones (i.e. a black or brown person would have to create a heavy duty coat to enter a snowy zone).

The current system was an interesting idea at first but is, in reality, clunky, frustrating, unrealistic, and it kills immersion.

#4 Re: Main Forum » Rethinking the player's role in the game » 2019-06-04 22:58:21

I think this proposal is interesting but PLEASE consider that there is a portion of the player base that don't want to be forced into advanced cities. I was just fine with the system before war swords and natural springs, but I fear this is where the game is going (maybe I am wrong though). I put a lot of hours into this game because I enjoyed Eveing and being a part of new civilizations. I was told that I could choose the life I want to live. This is what kept me playing so long.

Advanced cities are, no offense, extremely boring to a lot of people. Maybe they aren't vocal on the forums, but I promise we certainly exist. I will play an advanced city every now and then, but I do not want to feel like I am stuck in a life just so I can MAYBE get an early civilization later.

Some people loved the flexibility they had over the lives they live. Sometimes I can only play for an hour at a time, I don't want to hope it's actually a life I will have fun in.

#5 Re: Main Forum » Question » 2019-06-02 04:49:28

My favorite...
-Eve's kid or grand kid in the wild

Enjoy...
-Eve in the wild
-Town with sheep and no pump
-Town with pump and no engine
-pseudo-Eve's kid
-Eve's kid or grand near a town with people
-Eve near a town with people


Neutral...
-Eve's kid or grand finds an abandon camp or town and builds it up again
-Town beyond repair and you must migrate
-pseudo-Eve (runaway)
-Two towns find each other and build a road
-Multi-family peaceful town
-Eve finds an abandon camp or town and builds it up again
-Looting an abandon town to make a new one

Dislike...
-Town under attack
-Raiding a populated town
-sausage town
-Multi-family murder town

#6 Re: Main Forum » Down to three families » 2019-06-02 04:27:17

I see your point futurebird, but, honestly, these things aren't enough for me. I've done just about everything in the game at one point or another outside of making cars, planes, radios, and a few of the more complicated food items. I have murdered griefers (probably the worst part about advanced civilizations). I would even say I have in fact saved a few advanced cities. These things just don't give me the same satisfaction as early civilizations though. The only reason I ever stay in a city anymore is to practice high tech smithing but even this is often just a headache because of all the people and clutter.

I enjoy early game because it's fun to start from scratch. I enjoy the pressure of survival because if I die, especially as a girl, I know my family could very well die out (much less likely in a city). I like that I will still starve at times if I get careless (never happens in a city). I LOVE that there are rarely griefers in early civs. I like that going out and finding iron is actually dangerous and even getting a few ore can make the difference in whether your civilization survives. I like that I need to make priority choices that really matter (i.e. Do I have time to make a backpack before I look for iron? Should I expand the farm or try to make clothing? Do I gather bananas when I forsee a food shortage or do I have time to rush out a pot of stew).

This urgency just isn't there for me in cities. We need more changes like the Natural Spring update.  That actually motivated me to learn how to smith an oil rig because I was in some villages where I was the only one who had a clue how to even start it (and the deep well was dry). I had always seen as a luxury item before the update but now it is required just like pottery, tools, and sheep pens.  I think there needs to be more "technological check points" like these, although I am not particularly sure what the changes would be. I'll have to think about it.

#7 Re: Main Forum » Problem- Cannot Eve » 2019-06-02 03:31:24

RodneyC86 wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:
RodneyC86 wrote:

Yikes, and this person held up a veneer of appearing like a decent person in this post. Psychopathy, sorry to say

According to Wikipedia, "Psychopathy is traditionally a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and egotistical traits." https://archive.is/sDmAD

MissImortal, griefed on one evening so far as we know.  So, I don't think it's fair to characterize such as psychopathy, since a behavior occurring once does NOT make such behavior persistent.

That remains to be seen. The seeds are there. Fair enough.
Wasn't there a part about psychopaths usually being charismatic on the surface?


You're making quite the judgement about someone's character here. How about you leave things like this to a psychiatrist? I don't support griefing but you are taking quite a leap here..

#8 Re: Main Forum » Problem- Cannot Eve » 2019-06-02 03:18:13

I think it very well could. It could also just die out and lose profitability to the point Jason moves on to the next means of supporting his family. There are plentiful examples of games that have "come back from the dead", so to speak. And mind you, I don't consider this game dead by any means. I'm merely talking to the individuals that herald this game's death as some sort of guarantee. I never once said that it would, only that it could. Six months, or a year, down the road, this could very well be the next big thing; and it could very well be a result of the changes people have claimed will kill this game. There are far too many people...some more than others, that act like their word is absolute. My comment was directed at people with that mindset.

And whose concerns do you think I have belittled? Who do you believe I have accused of being a "man-child"? The only thing I can think of is where I used "crying out for"; which did not mean literally crying with tears and the works. It's a term for earnestly and passionately calling for something, which I believe fits the bill. Again, I don't believe there was anything I said that was disrespectful in anyway. I believe I was being fair and respectful, just urging caution and something to consider for those that are inflexible and obstinate, and more so for those that are heading in that direction.

Alright, I think I misinterpreted the tone of your post so I apologize if I came off rude. I have just been rather unhappy with the state of the game and was in a bad mood when I wrote the post.

I just think the changes are too drastic and are going to alienate a good chunk of the player-base. I feel like it's a roll of a dice whether there's going to be a civilization I actually want to play in when I login and this has never been an issue before. I have actually been very supportive of the changes Jason has made since I bought the game 8 months ago, but I am not sure I like the direction the game is going now. It's starting to feel like a different game in some ways.. and I really haven't been playing much anymore because of it.

#9 Re: Main Forum » Down to three families » 2019-06-02 02:44:32

futurebird wrote:

When a family "tops out" the tech tree should they just die out?

Is there a cistern by every oil pump?
Is it full?
Is there enough wood by the fire?
Is there ice cream?
Photos?
Are the buildings all complete?
Are the farms optimized?

If it's a mess there is plenty to do. Help clean it up.


Sorry to say but many people (including myself) are likely to never enjoy late game. Maybe if I felt like late game technology was actually worth the time and effort (planes, cars, photos, radios, etc.), this could change. Instead, if you really care about the longevity of your town, these things can be detrimental to build (this is a major issue IMO). Cars and planes require SOOO much iron and can easily be lost or griefed...I'll take a few extra horses instead. Even baking diverse foods is a waste of time most of the time because of how few people build a yum bonus. You're better of just making pies so your nooby females don't accidentally starve since they can't recognize what is edible.

My impact also feels very little in these advanced civilizations. Of course there are things that I know I can do to help, but most of the time the town is not going to die out if I don't (even if I were to actively try to ruin it). In an early game civilization, I can often 'carry' and try to make an Eve's day. Even if I feel like taking it easy, I know I am always make a difference in an early civilization. It's also really rewarding when I see these civilizations are still around a day later. I honestly don't even follow the lineage of advanced civilizations because they already have gotten there. What does it matter if it goes another 10 or 20 generations?

When I bought this game, part of the appeal was that I could choose my life
with /DIE. Now though it feels like late-game is being forced on me and, to be honest, I have just not been playing much because of it.

For the record, I have been generally happy with the changes to the game the last 8 months or so since I've been playing. Not this change though (at least in its current state). If playing early game becomes a rarity, I will quit the game because I just don't think advanced civilizations are fun.

#10 Re: Main Forum » Problem- Cannot Eve » 2019-05-31 18:17:50

FeignedSanity wrote:

* * * * *

Everyone talks about "losing players". Not everyone will like the same thing. For every player you lose, you could very well gain one because of the changes that made the other leave. It's not entirely unreasonable to say you could very well gain two or more for every player lost. Players come and go all the time. People like Spoonwood that want a game everyone can play their own way quite often leads to an unfocused mess. As one of my favorite video game reviewers said, "a game where the player can do anything, focuses on nothing".

Just something I wanted to mention to those crying out for the whole "let me have a game that lets me the everything MY way". Sometimes that just doesn't work. Quite often, playing a game YOUR way could very easily ruin the game for others. If half the player base is playing as eves, and there's not enough people to reasonably maintain a city's longevity, then the players playing as eves are essentially ruining the game for the other players. This is the same argument for a lot of people that are called griefers (minus the ones whose sole intention is to cause grief). A lot of people called griefers are just people playing the game the way they enjoy it (again, excluding the ones whose intention is to cause misery).

So, long story short, Spoonwood is a griefer Kappa tongue



You really think the player base is going to increase at this point? Outside of the game going on sale (even then it'd just be temporary), the player-base is going to steadily decline. So yes, losing players should certainly be a concern. Especially long-time players.

And you are characterizing our concerns basically as us being man-children. Maybe...just maybe... the changes went too far too fast. A good chunk of the player-base has ALWAYS preferred early-game to late-game and the extremely limited eve spawns drastically cuts into that. I don't have an issue with limited Eve spawns. I agree it's likely needed. But it's been in the game forever, so essentially eliminating them is extremely frustrating for people.

#11 Re: Main Forum » Problem- Cannot Eve » 2019-05-31 17:26:27

I completely agree with OP. I have not posted on the forums before, but I have sunk A LOT of time in this game. These latest changes to limited Eve spawns actually pushed me to join the forums because of my concerns.

Ever since the start, I have been an early game player. I can't stand late game civilizations and would honestly rather just do something else then be stuck in one (unless I think I can actually smith without everyone and their mom trying to "help").

While I used to be an Eve player, the last few months I have spent 99% of my playtime in Gen 2-7 civilizations. So this isn't about being an Eve for me in particular (although I do enjoy it).  This is about lack of options, especially in the early game. I tested this yesterday and there were only three families I could join. One of those was an eve without a name and the other two were super advanced civilizations. The result? I went and played something else.

I think Jason does a great job, but I do fear the direction the game is going in this regard. I feel like early civilizations are going to become even more and more rare as the game continues to expand. And frankly, it will likely lead to me just quitting if end-game is going to be basically forced on everyone.

I understand that there were too many Eves, but this is just way too drastic in my opinion. I understand Jason wants trade and conflict in the game, but I really hope too much isn't sacrificed to achieve these elements...

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