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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#1 Re: Main Forum » Coming soon: get reborn to your descendants after living to old age » 2020-12-01 01:46:19

jasonrohrer wrote:

One of my visions for the game was always that parents would REALLY feel like parents, and act like parents.  Keep the kids locked indoors until they're old enough to be safe on their own.  Load them down with clothing, food, and weapons before letting them go out on their own.  Give them careful instructions to maximize their survival.  And especially at the end of the parent's life, say goodbye with important advice.  "Keep the farm going, don't let any other family steal from our pie cellar, and take care of those great grandkids for me!"

If you're hoping that your descendants survive the night, until you can come back and rejoin them tomorrow morning, all of that stuff would make a lot more sense.  You'd REALLY want to set your descendants up for survival, if you were hoping that they were going to survive without out until you had a chance to return 8 hours later.


Fitness scores were a way of trying to "force" this to happen, but I always wanted a way for it to happen naturally.  Some players don't care about scores, and other players won't care about this, I guess....

Didn't all thats stuff already happened before you implemented the fitness score, Jason?

Weren't we already motivated to take care of our kids in the game? Being that it's one of the main features upon it was promoted to players and given how unique the concept is?

Like one quarter of the female gameplay, if not more, consist of parenting and interacting with your children to later watch them grow to full adults, that is if you decide to do so, isn't this enough of an acomplishment for you to witness, Jason?

And its not like a quarter of an hour wasted since it can be really fun and interesting to be parenting your children in the game and watching them do stuff on their own, you can spend countless hours just being a loving mother or a caring uncle.

It can be an enjoyable aspect of the game.

But even though it is a fairly unique feature, theres many players who dont really feel motivated by the whole take care of your children roleplay even if it promoted in the game, its just player preference, this cannot be changed by a magical mechanic if the player already doesn't feel atracted to that game aspect.

But you can though  give incentives for people to play that way if they havent tried to do so before but lets be honest, no player came only for the survival or crafting aspect of the game, they came for the whole game pack to unwrap and find wich aspect is more interesting to play.

And on behalf of the whole returning to your decendants town, its not so obvious that caring for each and one of your family members, them being directly related or not, will guarantee that they will make it to the next day anyways, theres too many variables at bay.

Nowdays getting born to your old village is more like a miracle than just something due to hard working players that took great care of the village and each member of their familly.

#2 Main Forum » In regards to the influx of new players during sales » 2020-12-01 00:41:02

Lightning
Replies: 2

Seeing how we have, a few weeks ago, had a decent steam sale, and following now the current autumn steam sales, one can wonder:

Shouldn't there be in place, during sale's events concerning OHOL, a pip bonus applied to all the foods in game during these periods, to compensate for the large amounts of clueless players coming into the game?

It's no secret that the sales causes servers casual player base, mainly the bigserver2 now, to become  overwhelmed in seconds by the influx of new players, leaving most casual players responsable of at least sustaining 3 whole individuals, in a life that probably is already complicated to keep playing yourself since it is hard to make much progress in those times.

Theres some players that even decide not to play during sales because the servers becomes such a mess that they become just unenjoyable to play, not that they're to blame for leaving. The real question is why people even bother to play during those periods of time.

So why not implement a food bonus during sale times?

That way it would encourage people to play in these population booms aswell as giving players time  to actually teach those new players the game properly.

Afterall we have already had this mechanic in place during certain periods of time before and it worked somewhat well.

The only problem i could see is how hard it could be or easy for that matter, for Jason to implement it back into the game, is it like an game engine  coding like change or easy as pulling a switch kinda change.

Anyways i would like to know your thoughts about the matter, and of course what the dev of the game thinks about this suggestion.

Cheers big_smile

#3 Re: Main Forum » R.I.P Gogo another victim of le Spoonwood » 2020-11-23 18:31:42

sigmen4020 wrote:

He kinda had it coming after trying to diagnose spoonwood with mental illness based solely on his forum behavior. And that’s just one of the things completely wrong with that “hit piece” I could think of the top of my head. I think he brought something up about race and femininity too.

Well its not that uncommon to see people diagnosing eachothers behavior for the sake of proving a point, it happens all the time, specially when Spoonwood is in the frame, since Gogo has not been the first one to jump into clinical conclusions about his mental health in the past years, not that it tells us  something about him of course.

Welp i guess we all become physicians when it comes to diagnosing illnesses in others, but not at all when we do so for ourselves.

#4 Re: Main Forum » R.I.P Gogo another victim of le Spoonwood » 2020-11-23 18:12:24

Eve Troll wrote:

Bans are rarely permanent. Spoons been banned before. They're usually a month or so depending on the degree.

I guess we'll have to see for ourselves how long the ban lasts, but it won't be permanent thats for sure and if it is, he can just create a new account without any restrictions. Just like OHOL where if you get cursed into oblivion you can just get unlimited accounts as long as you got the money for it and still be able to go on with your inner Joker desires, till boredom consumes your will of playing and you get a refund of your money.

Pretty convenient for those who are willing to do such actions. tongue

#5 Main Forum » R.I.P Gogo another victim of le Spoonwood » 2020-11-23 14:49:07

Lightning
Replies: 11

I don’t really mind what happened to Gogo, I think after what he wrote on that last topic he had it coming... sorta? ( I Haven’t payed attention to the rules of the forum that much).

But it goes to say how dangerous can be, in terms of probability of having an ever long unproductive conversations and possibly getting banned from the forums, it is to be paying attention to this Spoonwood guy, at least for the person foolish enough to bother himself enough with his meme-ish character, to the point of writing an complete post dedicating his profound love for his behavior (note the irony). tongue

He probably won’t be the last to get banned that way, soon more people will fall the same sake as our fallen member Gogo, at the hands of the most determined meme of this forum, Spoonwood.

#6 Re: Main Forum » Spoonwood - review » 2020-11-20 16:00:08

I find it quite amusing seeing how many people come to back up Spoonwood for who he is, knowing how he has behaved throughout the years in these forums, lets say he's not really somewhat of a saint himself being that he constantly bluntly criticizes Jason for the way he wants work on his own game proyect and for him to do changes to it acordingly to his viewpoint and the current game status.

Its funny because i thought more of Spoonwood when i red Eve Troll's post about people critcizing other people and how it says more about the person doing the critique than of Gogo and his post about him being overall annoyed of Spoonwood shenanigans.

Im not saying that something should be done about Spoonwood's way of being, since people are just the way they are and they have the freedom express themselves in this forum even if its unpleasent for others but afterall you can just ignore his posts if they are particularly bothersome to you.

Even though he could be a friendly guy now and then, and that he has done some "good" contributions to the forum's community, i cant find it adecuate to excuse his way of being by saying stuff like "he just likes to criticize a lot " because theres crearly ,many many, ways to criticize something you disagree with and some of it can help, specially if its in a constructive way, but spitting criticizm to the developer in destructive sense and overall ways that are really uncalled for doesnt serve much purpose but to make a fool of yourselve like Eve Troll mentioned, aswell as making the community a more hostile environment to participate at, and i wont even go in the details on how recurrently he necros posts that were done and gone for good, it has fooled me more than once big_smile.

btw thats a lot of using the verb criticize in this post XD

#7 Re: Main Forum » I'm on to you Moni Eve... » 2020-05-15 14:16:58

You’re answers are in this forum Arcurus, they died of a common cause called “griefing”.

It was a shame, i really liked that family, it’s even more disappointing that they died due to griefing and not by just a lack of water, being this last cause, the most common way of villages to go downhill.

#8 Re: Main Forum » Suggestion: Different Seasons - not always the sun is shining lovely » 2020-05-11 01:12:05

Hmm... wouldn't that make OHOL a completly different game though?

Yeah, maybe thats what people need afterall, some new content to enjoy to, not necesarily changing the mecanics of the game, but rather offering actual enjoyable content.

A breath of fresh air.

#9 Re: Main Forum » Its very hard to take care of relatives if you dont know they need you » 2020-05-09 00:06:35

Gomez wrote:

Griefers and famine out of your control? (...) but I can seriously feed a town solo.

The real question is: for how long can you actually keep a town going like that, sure for a small town it can be manageable, but for the future generations... dont think it will be too easy for them to sustain themselves.

Not that im doubting your capacities to make food, but its harder than ever to keep a town afloat with food supplies, now that we dont have food bonuses, and that water has becomed scarcer than ever.

#10 Re: Main Forum » New idea for killing » 2020-05-08 16:03:05

jasonrohrer wrote:

Are you forming a posse, Lightning?

Arcurus, I'm a quantum computing skeptic....

Maybe ? big_smile, nah im just messing, its just that i didnt knew that he was the one who "inspired" the whole experiment, it probably was along with other people aswell, but you mentiond him as the "father"... interesting... to say the least.

#11 Re: Main Forum » Bottles should have more space in them » 2020-05-08 15:54:35

Nika50501 wrote:

Why would you want them to break? I'm saying that they aren't balanced compared to other items inside of the game. If they were to contain ten clay bowls of items and be breakable people would still be better off just making more buckets.

i think Ruben was trying to sarcastic about the issue, not actually saying it a reasonable idea.

#12 Re: Main Forum » New idea for killing » 2020-05-08 15:48:36

jasonrohrer wrote:

The non-infinite map experiment (Rift) was inspired by Dodge.

#13 Re: Main Forum » New idea for killing » 2020-05-08 15:25:59

pein wrote:
Lightning twistedfangirl2002 wrote:
pein wrote:

Why don't you add a Hp system? a non-lethal combat?(...) Players with more HP and a lot of tools used as weapons would win.
A different combat system? Some honour to the fights?

Why do you keep pushing the subject of Hp system and combat into the table, he just wont do it, he has already talked about the matter a couple times already, and its probably for the best anyways, this game aint about generic combat systems, for that you got PLENTY of games to choose from, games that could be better suited to your likings... than just a modified version of OHOL for combat purposes.

Pull back your head and wash your tongue with soap.

Two sliders can only give that much variety, 3 or more give more variety.
We don't have content, we won't have content. Doesn't matter how complex it is when it doesn't work and feels flat.
Same as the temperature revamp didn't work. That 0.1 heat bonus still not a logical reason to block yourself in buildings.
It had a wall of text and a lot of code but in reality, does not give anything worthwhile.

Intention based combat system makes no sense and will never work, as these calculations won't guess intentions anyway.

We got an HP system, you got exactly 1 hp. That's generic as well. It's like any roguelike game and none of them multiplayer. It's like having 2 hours of foreplay for 1 minute of action.

I'm fine with unique as long as it works, but the whole reason of having this system is "tried it once, I couldn't kill the other person" so let's give 100% advantage for the attacker. That was the most bullshit update and removed content from the game, had a wall of text next to it and no logical arguments.

Same as the posse system topic shows a graph that we dropped to 10% cause it's more complicated. Then remove all kills and will be 0, then is better based on this logic.

If griefers do more destroying than kills than it's already a problem, but hey, it won't affect you cause you won't create endgame stuff anyway. Kills affect you so you care about that. Generic subjective response.

You can also play club penguins.

Kills won't affect the towns. Lives are worthless, that's a whole other problem.
And badly intended noobs can flex with their shitty skills, that won't change if they don't need skill at all.

I have no business in talking to a guy, who clearly lacks the mental maturity and capacity to debate their said ideas, over the current know facts, that begins responding with comments to mock the other person...just an overall waste of time to even bother...

#14 Re: Main Forum » New idea for killing » 2020-05-08 01:52:43

pein wrote:

Why don't you add a Hp system? a non-lethal combat?(...) Players with more HP and a lot of tools used as weapons would win.
A different combat system? Some honour to the fights?

Why do you keep pushing the subject of Hp system and combat into the table, he just wont do it, he has already talked about the matter a couple times already, and its probably for the best anyways, this game aint about generic combat systems, for that you got PLENTY of games to choose from, games that could be better suited to your likings... than just a modified version of OHOL for combat purposes.

#15 Re: Main Forum » New idea for killing » 2020-05-08 01:27:20

Cantface wrote:

Good for you for being positive at least! Ignore me if you want, I'm just feeling hella salty right now.

Dont even mention it, Cantface, its all right, i can understand the reason behind your saltyness, i think we are all a bit on our nerves with all this trouble, aint we? ¿who wouldnt though?, it surely can be a dissapointing, seeing such an unique game being just torn apart and stitched back up, over and over, it puts just even more stress in the already annoyed community, some people just want to enjoy the game ...you know?

I believe its for that reason that Jason stands by such a flexible refund policy, he knows thats its annoying for us to bear with this, so if one day we grow tired'n'sick from the ever changing game, we could get refunded quickly, if one truly wished it...

Changing a bit the subject, letting you know that you did some great work with those fan arts drawings, and i would encourage you to keep doing so, they were pretty well made.

#16 Re: Main Forum » New idea for killing » 2020-05-08 00:09:54

Cantface wrote:

The point I was making is; HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THIS TO NEW PLAYERS??? You gonna teach em about hierarchy and posse mechanics in under an hour? Good luck!

AND HOW TO YOU GET VETS TO USE A SYSTEM THEY BARELY USED IN THE FIRST PLACE?

I read the same post as you, I understand it and dislike it immensely. You don't have to explain anything to me, but if you want it to work you better TEACH IT to those that don't know how to use it.

People tend to figure out stuff by themselves with time, just like most stuff that have been added to the game, but players need to familiarize with the concept first, aswell as, actually giving TIME for them to adapt to the changes, otherwise this could turn out to be another "posse system balance", and that really wont work anymore.

Its up to Jason if he wants to aid the players to understand this new mechanic or not, if the concept is too complicated, he could try expanding the tutorial, with this new possible addition, just like he did with curse mechanics, and i would recommend doing that, since we have already used quite some time in all these recent conflicts (not even mentioning the confusion), time that could potentionally have be used on bringing actual content to the game.

If its a good and interesting update it can, possibly, attract people back to playing again, aswell, as bringing some relief to the accumulated discomfort of the community towards the killing topic.

Looks promising, but ill have to wait and see how it turns out to be in the end, before saying anything else.

#17 Re: Main Forum » Wow, posse system really worked » 2020-05-07 22:52:22

jasonrohrer wrote:

You're right, Lightning... and I'm working on alternatives (see other thread).

The current implementation (super majority) is more like a prank, just to prove that it is possible to stop someone like Bobo.

I understand, i really hope you can find the right solution to the underlying problem.

Afterall, the community depends on you, to make this game the greatest and most unique proyect ever, we are a part of your game, and the days where we were foreigners are long gone.

Cheers

#18 Re: Main Forum » Wow, posse system really worked » 2020-05-07 20:00:13

Jason, You're pushing the limits of a system that wasn't meant to work in isolated cases like these, where a community of griefers, gather puposely to kill people... now we cant even kill anyone without spending most off your precious lifetime, trying to gather a posse(and we cant even guarantee that that will work).

The posse update helped restrict the amount of total casualties by solo killing, but now we dont even have that, the new concept is totally alien from what we had before, and this new addition, is totally wothless against other more direct methods of griefing(removed killing but at what cost).

The killing mechanics, back in the day, were meant so that we, the "normal" players, could sort out the problems DIRECLTY, the posse update helped to restrict when you could kill someone.

If now, we would like to eliminate some griefers from our gameplay we could simply  curse them and spread the word to others, on why that person should get cursed, to further punish the undesired player, hoping that he would end in donkey town.

But cursing only worked in the long run terms, (and it too could be abused or misused by players)for example: it doesnt help you when you're playing with the actuall griefer, sure, you can curse him... but he will continue to do his thing... thats when killing mechanics entered in action(balanced the equation).

Besides, the curse system doesnt even work for players that keep getting new accounts at will, well he could tire of buying new account but we really dont know that.

#19 Re: Main Forum » Wow, posse system really worked » 2020-05-07 18:47:37

This is really getting out of hand...

#20 Re: Main Forum » Wow, posse system really worked » 2020-05-07 04:23:32

Spoonwood wrote:

Before which change? There exist several mentioned.

Yes theres quite a bunch of mentioned changes, i was mainly replying to Jony Skys and Dantox. To Jony Skys, that brought to the table some of the main restriction changes made to the game, and Dantox , since along of what he said about "game is worse now than ever" he mentioned the restrictions, along with some other factors, as the main causes of the games decline.

So i mainly explained my viewpoint about, the possible reason on why we got these restrictions : the family biome specialization(races), the tool system implementation(cant make any items at will), the homesick update(cant have one city to rule over all the races) and the overall changes to food and water values.


Spoonwood wrote:

None of that was ever a problem. The trailer advertises that the designer would stay one step *ahead* of the players on the tech tree by adding new stuff to the tech tree every week. It doesn't say anything at all about difficulty.

Well the trailer is one thing, and the CURRENT developpers words are another thing. You can't just hang on the trailer's advertisement as "the promised lands", the game has changed, different scenarios paint different results, sometimes what we are promised with can change and turn into a whole different result, depending of a variety of factors that we cant always control.

We can only hope that, eventually, he will add some new and fresh content that will make us forget about the bad days, such as the rift, for good.


Spoonwood wrote:

No, it was not too easy.

I believe it was, after what i explained in the corresponding post.



Spoonwood wrote:

On the contrary, him saying that he'd stay ahead of the players by adding new stuff to the game suggests that he did expect people to stay around.

Notice how i said in my post "such long time" and not "forever", yes he expected people to stay around but not for for that much time, not for time some people have today as playtime, with players having probably more than 800+ and even more... whos knows. Thats what i meant by that.



Spoonwood wrote:

Well, if that holds, it's a big design problem, because difficulty isn't what drives interest in sandbox games. And make no mistake, this is a sandbox game with no game goal in sight.

A multiplayer SURVIVAL game of PARENTING and Building CIVILIZATION from scratch, i think those are the main goals of this "sandbox game" as you call it Spoonwood, since it cant even fall on that category with the current restrictions to gameplay mechanics, sandbox games are supposed to be a "do whatever you may please" but OHOL falls short on  total freedom.

Difficulty may not be the what drives interest in "sandbox game", but it can be an important factor in the gameplay aspect, its for example, one of the factors that separates  the audience of the game “Rust”, a hardcore survival, skill based sandbox game, from an audience of a game like Minecraft, mostly a pve survival game of block building : it’s the way that the difficulty is oriented in the gameplay fashion. where the main focus of rust is to be in a hard environment to play at(everything is against you), compared to Minecraft that looks for other ways to entertain the customer, rather than just being difficult(mobs are the main hassle but it’s not limited to mobs only).

Of course, Minecraft has stuff to offer that rust doesnt ... but thats the whole dynamic of "different games" having "different stuff" and mechanics to offer that makes their gameplay unique, pretty simple. Just pointing out on how difficulty can attract different audiences.




Spoonwood wrote:

Too many vets isn't a problem. A game that won't try to keep veteran players is a piece of trash.

Well for Jason it was a problem at the time being, if not , ¿why would he even have bothered at all to make his game less enjoyable, for most of the players, if that could potentially have shattered  the community ?

#21 Re: Main Forum » Wow, posse system really worked » 2020-05-06 19:05:27

I really dont feel like talking about those issues in this topic, i know that some of what you guys say is most definitely true, but havent you guys (forum community) already discussed the issues (you have mentioned) with Jason at some point in time before? Do you remember what Jason had to say about it? well, something bothered him enough for him to make these changes anyways... what could it be though?

I believe that, at that time, it had to do with the game's difficulty, before we got the mayor nerf changes to races and such, and how it was getting way too easy for families to climb up the tech tree and getting to an advanced state and to stay in such state, to the point were players were only able to live in developped, mega towns, where all the important and interesting stuff was already made. I thinks thats why we got introduced with these changes to the gameplay mechanics, such as (all those mentioned before) the restrictions to familys and players.

I do not necesarily support these changes but they are there to satisfy a purpose, not because the developper was bored one day and decided to change the game out of nowhere, but because the game was getting too easy at that time, at least for the so called "veterans".

Afterall, Jason never had in mind that so many players would stick around his game for such long time... ¡Of course that this was gonna make the game easy! because if people kept sticking to the game, at some point, players would eventually know everything about OHOL, but the game was never meant to be even played this way or to even be easy to begin with... apparently.

This created a huge problem by itself(too many vets) and its the fact that villages were mainly controlled by a fistfull of experienced players that pushed their villages to success, leaving the un-experienced players to just enjoy the rewards off the hard working players, but heres the catch, by there being too much success in a village that emerged so quickly, it opened the doors for misunderstanding to arrive (Jason thinking most of his players were too good at his game so he made it harded for everyone).

Now i do not how much of his playerbase actually left for good after the mayor changes, but i believe that the newers players were the ones that got most affected by all of this overall, and the ones that did leave the game... probably left with a terrible taste in their mouth...

After all, the changes were made for the "vets" so they could be slowed down but ¿at what cost did this came with? for the average players at least (not a very pleasing experience at all i imagine).

#22 Re: Main Forum » Why Do Players Dye Clothes and Walls? » 2020-05-06 15:18:19

Is there anything wrong with it ? i think that its up to the players to decide what they want to do with their lives. And besides, colors can bring sparks of joy, sometimes, to such a blank environment. smile

#23 Re: Main Forum » Wow, posse system really worked » 2020-05-05 21:51:42

Well anyways the game is with no doubt better to what we had before, in many aspects, including ways to punish griefing/griefers, and hopefully it continues to get better with time and with the corresponding effort of the game developper: Jason. Because if we didnt have him, we would have never gotten an experience as such as this game is.

#24 Re: Main Forum » Wow, posse system really worked » 2020-05-05 21:30:17

Twisted wrote:

The balance is not shifted towards the griefers, they are a tiny (albeit annoying) minority. They only affect a small percetage of total lives lived.

You are right about it, although, you have to take into consideration that, RIGHT NOW, your average "Joe" player either doesnt know about posses, and you have to practically teach it to them, or just that they dont mind about it till the problem is big enough. the solution to this can only come with time(eventually most players will know about the mechanic),as it has always happend.

Twisted wrote:

The game is the best it's ever been, griefing-wise. Sure, it's still possible (and I would love to see it be impossible), but the amount of griefing pales in comparison to what we had before.

Well i know that you are a much older OHOL player than i am, and im curious to ask,(not that im doubting your knowllege) what you do mean by "griefing what we had before" timewise speaking.,before we had curses? or before we had changes to the kill system? because curses, (an effective way of dealing with griefers) is the only example that really changed the game in comparison to what you had before, and it even needed to get polished quite some times before it could actually become viable.

#25 Re: Main Forum » Wow, posse system really worked » 2020-05-05 19:11:17

Twisted wrote:
Lightning wrote:
Twisted wrote:

The only thing he can do is change the rules of the game and empower good actors so that griefing is less likely.

Isn’t this the reason why we are here? With the posse system, the waiting time before landing a kill and the 20 minute minimum time lived to join a pose? He couldn’t manage to address the issue to his core because he cant, it’s an issue that goes beyond the games limits currently, unless Jason decides to changes his game vision, but that won’t happen.

The fact is that Jason can’t empower the good guys without also empowering the griefers in some other way

Yes, I am saying that that's exactly what he did. He made a ton of changes that DRASTICALLY reduced griefing by putting more power into the players' hands. I'm saying he already empowered the good guys and that reverting the posse changes would make griefing a lot easier.

I can agree with you point Twisted, but as i've said, in this quoted post, giving power to the good guys can result (but is not limited to) aswell in giving power to the griefers, such as with bobo's group.

Right now the balance is shifted towards the griefers since (like in bobo's case)they can communicate directly with eachother by other media(better coordination), rather than just chatting in game.

This balance can be changed although, if the average playerbase could know more about the pose system, and how to mitigate griefers in the long term overall(curses). But this will still not solve the
underlying core problem off all of this.

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