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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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#1 Re: Main Forum » Tutorial vid: How to start farms completely on your own; hard mode! » 2018-03-24 03:22:22
I'm curious, does anyone else enjoy starting from scratch (for the challenge of seeing how far you can get through self-sufficiency) while also feeling slightly guilty for playing this clearly cooperative-oriented game in solo mode? 
#2 Re: Main Forum » Pie's efficiency over raw carrots? About 72%! » 2018-03-24 03:16:57
"Efficiency" matters so long as the resource you're being efficient with is limited in some way and you have to make it last as long as possible. If water production is outstripping how fast you can use it, it is effectively unlimited and therefore, should not be considered for efficiency. Other measures of efficiency might be space (both in how compact each food item is and in how much farming space you need), and time (how much of a person's time is required to create X amount of food, measured as food per minute output).
I get what you're saying but maybe I also was not clear enough about the thrust of this thread. The aim of my calculations was to examine the effectiveness of baking for the purpose of sustaining the greatest population. From this perspective, water is pretty much always going to be the limiting resource. Yes, there may be some rare scenarios where water is crazy abundant but, as the population grows, water is eventually going to be the limiting resource (except maybe reeds but that would be highly unlikely) for food production, due to the rate of production of other ingredients (berries, carrots, wheat, etc.) relying on the un-modifiable rate of water regeneration. I understand that there may be circumstances in which you would be more interested in other efficiencies, particularly when the village is young. The main point was to show that baking is very worthwhile and that rabbit pies (or rabbit+carrot) are the best way to make use of the most commonly limited resource.
Water has a hard limit on just how many people can be supported in an area, but if there's so much water around that the hard limit is beyond what the server can even support then it no longer matters.
Is that even possible? What is the server load?
*Edit: Ah, looks like 40. I had no idea it was so low! That could indeed be a viable concern, then.*
#3 Re: Main Forum » Tutorial vid: How to start farms completely on your own; hard mode! » 2018-03-18 20:03:19
Do note that the next priority after getting a farm running should probably be to get a milkweed farm running. This would follow the same process (get seeds from milkweed, plant in tilled row, water). I'd go for at least 12 rows but the more the merrier. After that, you'll probably be low on soil so you should look into composting (use bowl on full berry bush, add carrot to bowl, mash with sharp stone, pour onto reed bundle, water). Then make clothes, starting with a backpack. Follow with planting some wheat to prepare for pie-making.
You'd have to be very lucky in your starting location to get most of this done on your own but, even if you're not, you can pass these priorities on to your kid(s) 
#4 Re: Main Forum » Pie's efficiency over raw carrots? About 72%! » 2018-03-18 19:52:09
The using wild berries or growing your own makes a huge difference in how viable pies are. Let's look at that closer.
Let's look at carrot pies.
That is a total of 30 water. 18 for crops, 7 for dough, and 5 for compost.Now, let's look at rabbit pies.
That is a total of 16 water. 9 for crops, 4 for dough, and 3 for compost.
You will also need 12 family rabbit holes.Some of this could be more efficient if you scaled up to support 2 or 3 people because there are extra fractional amounts that go unused when you assume 1 person.
But the conclusion is a person could use less water living off Rabbit Pie, but your next bottleneck is likely going to be that rabbits only respawn every epoc.The best answer is in a balance and wise use of resources. If you have a surplus of something, then use it. If you have a ton of raw rabbit sitting around but not much water, make Rabbit Pies. If you have a ton of water and no rabbits, grow carrots. If there's wild berries, use those before growing your own. If you have none of these, why the heck you living there?
That's a nice block of math there but I'm not sure I understand its purpose 
You said the berries were going to make a huge difference but ended up at the same conclusion (that rabbit pies are far more water efficient than raw carrots). And that's even after you incremented everything to support only one person, which is clearly not the situation I was aiming it.
The point about the need for rabbits is definitely a valid concern as a limiting factor but it just means that you should make rabbit pies when you have the rabbits to do so and when you don't have them... well, then you can't make the pies, so it kinda manages itself xD It is worth noting that non-rabbit pies aren't worthwhile, though. I haven't actually tried making berry pies so I don't know how much food they provide but they would have to give at least 17 per bite in order to be as efficient as raw carrots so I highly doubt they're worth it, especially since they would interfere with composting. I think I'll add a note about non-rabbit pies to the post. Thanks 
#5 Re: Main Forum » Pie's efficiency over raw carrots? About 72%! » 2018-03-18 17:49:36
Do note that the above calculations are assuming Wild Berry Bushes. If using Domestic, 1 more water will need to be accounted for in the compost cost to keep the bush alive. It won't change the end result by much, though.
#6 Re: Main Forum » Pie's efficiency over raw carrots? About 72%! » 2018-03-17 23:07:26
Exactly my train of thought, thanks for confirming with numbers! There's just no way raw carrots could be more resource efficient food. You combine one food+one non-edible+one water to get 4 more sating portions.
It basically comes down to the dough providing 3 portions. Whereas it takes 1 water for every 5 carrots, the 1 water for the dough gives 3 pies, each roughly multiplying the food ingredient by 4. So, if the dough was only usable once, they'd be pretty similar to carrots but since it's usable 3 times, pies are far more water efficient.
And thanks to this I'll stick with rabbit pies, splicing with carrots when the place has surplus. Also consider that most people won't look at the type of the pie, so it won't be efficient to make multiple types for different ages...
Right! It never pays to overestimate people xD Happy baking to you, sir!
#7 Main Forum » Tutorial vid: How to start farms completely on your own; hard mode! » 2018-03-17 22:51:14
- catbert7
- Replies: 3
I've seen a couple tutorial videos of this sort but I notice that they all seem to start off with a crazy lucky spawn point that is brimming with milkweed, berries, and everything a person could want. My experience has been... VERY different from that Everytime I have spawned as an Eve it has been in lands almost completely devoid of milkweed, due to previous players stripping it bare. If you want to know how to survive in this sort of environment, on your own and without using any other player's work as a crutch, this video will show you how. I consider this approach to be a fun challenge, as well as a helpful lesson.
Tutorial: From Nothing to Farms!
Or you can navigate to it through my YouTube channel: catbert7's Gaming Highlights
Hope it helps anyone who's struggling to make it in the wilds
#8 Re: Main Forum » Please Help » 2018-03-17 22:18:47
There's nothing complicated to it. Download the installer; It'll go to your downloads folder. Run it and follow the directions. When it's done, go to wherever you told the installer to install the game and run the application. Game will auto-update when you first hit the button to be born and it might relaunch the game. Click be born again and you're in.
#9 Main Forum » Pie's efficiency over raw carrots? About 72%! » 2018-03-17 21:52:36
- catbert7
- Replies: 7
I was curious about whether pies were actually that much better than carrots, so I did the math. If anyone's interested, here's the results!
Carrot food output per seeding row: 45 carrots x 8 food/carrot = 360 food
Cost:
Compost for seeding carrots (1 Berry bush + 1 Carrot + 1 Reed + 1 Water) / 3* *Compost makes 3 soil, we're only using 1*
+ Water for seeding carrots (1 Water)
+ Water for 9 rows of carrots (9 Water) *Seeding carrots produce 10 seeds, 1 is saved for next seeding row*
Total Cost:
1/3 Berry bush (6 berries x 6 food/berry / 3 = 36 food / 3 = 12 food)
1/3 Carrot (8 food/carrot / 3 = about 3 food)
10 1/3 water
1/3 Reed
Net food per water = (360-15) / (31/3) = 345 / (31/3) = about 33
Rabbit pie food output: 1 rabbit pie x 4 pieces/pie x 15 food/piece = 60 food
Cost:
Compost for wheat (1 Berry bush + 1 Carrot + 1 Reed + 1 Water) /3* / 3* *Compost makes 3 soil, we're only using 1* *Bowl of dough makes 3 crusts, we're only using 1*
+ Water for wheat (1 Water) / 3 *Bowl of dough makes 3 crusts, we're only using 1*
+ Water for bowl of wheat (1 Water) / 3 *Bowl of dough makes 3 crusts, we're only using 1*
+ Rabbit for pie (1 Rabbit)
Total Cost:
1/9 Berry bush (6 berries x 6 food/berry / 9 = 36 food / 9 = 4 food)
1/9 Carrot (8 food/carrot / 9 = about 1 food)
7/9 Water
1/9 Reed
1 Rabbit (11 food)
Net food per water = (60-16) / (13/9) = 44 / (7/9) = about 57
57/33 = about a 72% increase in food efficiency. Pretty darn good! I chose Rabbit pies because they seem the simplest of the 2 effective options to me. Rabbit+Carrot pies are ever so slightly more efficient but only if you have a max food bar (20) and wait until down to a couple boxes before eating. Half the population CAN'T use them effectively and they are much more likely to be inefficiently utilized than Rabbit pies, so I consider the two about even. Berry pies would give basically the same return but at a much higher cost. Carrot pies and Carrot+Rabbit+Berry pies are absolute travesties that aren't even worth considering Thus, do note that the only pies worth making are Rabbit or Rabbit+Carrot.
It does seem very curious that pies with multiple food ingredients give more food than can actually be held in the stomach, particularly the Carrot+Rabbit+Berry pie. I'm wondering if there is a future purpose for these pies that hasn't yet been implemented or if it just wasn't noticed that they are outstripping the hunger meter. If their full potential could actually be met, they would be amazing!
If there are any errors in my calculations, please speak up!
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