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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#351 Re: Main Forum » adding more to diseases » 2020-03-17 22:49:13

Communicable diseases are obviously interesting from a sim point of view.... almost an "in the name of science" kind of thing.

They also might be the source of an interesting social gameplay challenge.  Eradication might be possible, in the hands of the players, for example.

However, I suspect that it would swamp all other aspects of the game, so it's probably out of scope.

#352 Main Forum » There are 28 new piles in this week's update already (aka, DOZENS) » 2020-03-17 22:44:48

jasonrohrer
Replies: 28

https://edge.onetech.info/

So many piles.

By having a bunch of piles of different things around, you can create a real "market bazar" feeling.

This was in response to a reported issue.

Pile of worms, yessir.

#354 Re: Main Forum » THIS should have been included in the OHOL game trailer on Steam » 2020-03-16 17:39:26

Yes, it became very clearly to me, shortly after the game was launched, that "climbing the tech tree" was never going to be the main, interesting thing for players in this game, no matter how big I made the tech tree.

The tech tree is still huge, and it will get much bigger, but there's no way that I can stay "one step ahead" of anyone.

Well, I mean, unless I put time gates on all tech (like what's in place for the bell tower currently), but I don't think that's very interesting.  I could add tech each week that had an artificial 1-week time gate on it, and then I could stay one step ahead.  But I decided early on that I wasn't going to do this for most things (all games that say "crafting axe, 45 seconds left" drive me nuts in terms of the way they seem to wantonly waste MY time).



And the reason for this problem is very simple:  progress in this game is collective and accumulative.  As soon as one person in a village builds a diesel pump, everyone has it going forward.  It was a tech-tree challenge only for one person or a small group of people.  They essentially "spoiled" it for everyone else going forward.  Imagine a brand new player being born in a town where all tech is already built.

This would be like starting a Factorio game and discovering that everything was already unlocked.

But in OHOL, this is the fundamental premise of the game:  building on what came before.  Obviously, for that to work, people are going to end up building out, not up.  Extending the road, not inventing the road.


But even there, WHY extend the road?


Because nearby oil just ran out, and the expert family we were depending on nearby just died out, and we need to extend the road farther to reach more oil and other experts.


There have to be challenges facing you, when you're born into a village that has already invented everything, because that will be the experience of 99% of the lives lived in the game.

#355 Re: News » Update: Known Homeland » 2020-03-16 16:56:51

Thank you, Legs.

Is it strange that I generally imagine that you look like Garfield in real life?

#356 Re: Main Forum » one life but pixelzied? » 2020-03-14 20:34:09

Nice!

You know, a pixel art mod for the game is very possible....

#357 Re: News » Update: Known Homeland » 2020-03-14 20:32:28

Glad some folks are liking this update!

#358 Re: News » Update: Known Homeland » 2020-03-13 21:25:54

Actually, homeland is formed with shallow well, not deep well.

#359 Re: Main Forum » My worries with the homesick update » 2020-03-13 21:25:02

No, progress is NOT reset if you skip a generation.

You inherit your mother's progress, even if you never hear the language yourself.

So if you learn 10%, and your great great granddaughter is around the language, she will bump up to 20%.

#360 Re: Main Forum » My worries with the homesick update » 2020-03-13 20:20:51

Yes, I have thought about ways to indicate territories more clearly.

Right now, you can't tell the difference between leaving your home territory and entering someone else's.  You're homesick as soon as you leave.

I have thought about some sort of color overlay on the ground (like actual map colors), or maybe just at the boundary.  I worry that it would look tacky.

Also, the territories are currently square and therefore kind of boring to depict visually.

#361 Re: Main Forum » Yet Again... Not What Was Advertised » 2020-03-13 17:48:47

Today, there are 3422 TXT files in the objects folder.  These are object that I created by hand in the editor by pressing the SAVE NEW button.  One year ago, there were 2384 TXT files in the objects folder.

Over the past 365 days, I added 1038 new objects to the game.

During that time, I took 6 weeks of vacation or sick time or speaking trips or whatever.  I count 45 weekly updates in the past year.

That is 23 objects per week, on average, over the past year, which was not a year focused on content.  I failed to deliver, missing the promise by 1 object per week, or 45 objects total.


Let's roll back the full two years, though, when we only had 610 objects in the game.

Over the past two years, 2812 objects were added.

There were roughly 92 weekly updates over that period, for an average of 30 objects added each week, or more than 2 dozen.

The first year was a content-focused year, though, with 1774 objects added in that year.  There were roughly 47 updates that year, for an average of 37 per week, or more than 3 dozen.


I added the following note to the Steam page to clarify this:

Note (May 13, 2020): Over the past two years, the game has been updated 92 times, with a total of 2812 new objects added, for an average of 30 new objects per update. Some weeks, when I was focused on fixing other things, very few new objects were added. Dozens of new things are not added every single week, but dozens are added on average. The game is updated in a substantial way every single week, however---except, obviously, when I'm sick or on vacation. The trailer depicts a potential future for the game. There aren't robots in the game (yet), but there are loads of things that weren't shown in the trailer (radios, airplanes, rail carts, oil rigs, ice cream, etc.) At least 2812 things weren't shown in the trailer, in fact. For a game that's changing weekly, a trailer gives you only a general idea of what the game is like, and where it's headed. The current plan is to get up to robots in the game someday, but, like I say in the trailer, who knows where we'll end up? --Jason


Some people, apparently, take things very literally, and can't read between the lines, or understand basic implication.  When I say, "maybe someday" in the trailer, they don't know what that implies.

Some people, apparently, think that 30 objects EVERY WEEK for 92 weeks would be superior to 30 object average over that same time span.  Some people, apparently, don't see the importance of other non-content code changes and improvements, nor do they understand the need of a solo developer to focus on one thing at a time and not spread themselves too thin.

Some people need it spelled out for them, and would only understand the trailer if it said this:

DOZENS OF NEW
CRAFTABLE OBJECTS
ADDED EVERY WEEK
(on average, because I will sometimes spend a week coding)
(not during weeks when I'm sick or on vacation)
(not if I die or am subjected to a force majeure)

Some people cannot understand why doing that in the trailer would make it worse.  For 99% of people, they don't need it spelled out like that, so it doesn't make it LESS misleading for them, but all that extra verbal clutter makes it more confusing and harder to understand, and the core point is lost:  this game is updated a hell of a lot.

But for that very dense, very literal 1% of the population who is confounded by such details, I updated the Steam page, just to be sure that NOBODY is confused.

#362 Re: Main Forum » My worries with the homesick update » 2020-03-13 17:01:33

Well, your kid could also make that choice themselves, between ages 3 and 6.

#363 Re: Main Forum » Living together with strangers » 2020-03-13 15:28:25

Sorry, I didn't explain that correctly.

After an hour of not having a BB in that homeland (around that well), it becomes abandoned by that family.

So if you want to keep a well outpost going, someone needs to be living out there, having BB.

This prevents "conquest" of the map, building wells everywhere, which would block other fams from having homelands there.

#364 Re: News » Update: Known Homeland » 2020-03-13 15:26:28

Tipy, are you using official client?

Just tested it, and Homesick emote is working.  Also hot pepper working.


Maybe one of the mods didn't get the emotionWords.ini setting?

#365 Re: Main Forum » Living together with strangers » 2020-03-13 14:42:25

After an hour with no BB for that fam, well becomes abandoned and can be claimed by another fam simply by using it.

After a fam dies, they will definitely go an hour with no BB.

#366 Re: Main Forum » My worries with the homesick update » 2020-03-13 14:41:32

Language learning currently works slowly across generations, as babies in subsequent generations learn more than their parents learned as babies.  Well, up to age 6, actually.

There are also, of course, white folks, alcohol, and writing to aide in communication.

But now that you will mostly have babies separately, how will language learning work?

It can still happen, but it will have to be a bit more intentional than before.  If you stand at the edge of your homeland (and homelands are close together), then you are 100 tiles away from their town center.  On a road, that's a 16-second walk.

So have your girl baby on the edge, and then walk them to the other town, and either stay there for a bit (if you don't mind not having BB for a while), or just donate your BB there.  If they hear any of the other lang before age 6, they pick up 10% of it (there was a no-busy-work change a while back).  Then they can head home to have the next generation of BB and repeat.

So it will require a trans-generational plan for you and your offspring, but it is possible.  It always required a trans-gen plan before (stay here forever, and don't leave, for 10 generations).  This is a more complex plan that is less likely to happen by accident.

#367 Re: Main Forum » Living together with strangers » 2020-03-13 14:32:18

This has been fixed in this week's update.

#368 News » Update: Known Homeland » 2020-03-12 23:45:02

jasonrohrer
Replies: 28

zPYE8pR.png

Specialty biomes, and the expert families that go along with them, can provide a kind of social puzzle.  If you travel to find one of these families, are they going to help you with what you need?  There's a language barrier to deal with, but even if you are able to communicate with them, do they know how to get what you need from their biome?  And if they do, are they willing to get it?  Are they going to ask for anything in return, and if so, how are you going to get what they need?  What if they ask for too much?  What if they outright refuse?  What if they simply ignore you?

The idea is to build a more complex and varying challenge.  It's not enough to understand how to make what you want to make.  It's not enough to gather there required resources from the land.  You must navigate the whims of intelligent entities (other players) in order to succeed.  You can't just memorize one solution and apply it over and over.  Depending on the social situation, it may not even be possible to succeed.

This isn't a puzzle that needs to be solved by every player in every life, but instead a transgenerational puzzle that needs to be solved by someone in your village several times over the life of your village.

Here's the problem:  where are they?  The people that you need to interact with---the experts for the biome you need help with---how can you find them?

Wandering around randomly isn't interesting problem-solving.  Hearing a distant bell, and chasing it down to discover that it was rung by the wrong family isn't interesting problem solving (not to mention the 18 hours you need to wait before a bell tower can even be built).

Now the location of each expert family is common knowledge to all.  Each specialty biome has new Expert Way Stones in it, placed along the same ley lines as springs and oil wells.  Touching one of these will point you toward the closest expert for that biome.

So, now you can find other useful families right from the beginning.

But this introduces a new problem:  if you all move into one central village from the very beginning, no interesting social geography will develop over time.  You won't need to take the road to the north to find these folks, nor will you head south through the desert to find these other folks.

I want you close, but not too close.  That other family should be just down the road, and you should know how to find them, but they shouldn't be right on top of you.

Each family now has a homeland around their well.  The place where the water tastes sweet to them.  A family only feels comfortable enough to have babies in their homeland.  Elsewhere, they are too homesick to breed.  Building more well outposts means a bigger homeland, of course.

Due to spring tap-out, wells can't be any closer than 200 tiles apart, which means the village next door will always be at least a 50-second walk away (much shorter by road, horse, or car).

Because you can find each other so easily, it won't be hard to build villages close to each other.  Gone are the days when you have to travel 2000 tiles to find the expert family that you need.  Short-range transportation networks can be useful in this new world, stitching together the fabric of the new social geography.

And of course, a bunch more issues have been fixed.  The most noticeable thing is the new Lab Table, which you can use for non-food bowls, like various chemical solutions.

Only 94 issues to go.

#369 Re: Main Forum » [Discussion] A look back on "the Property Update" and Trade... » 2020-03-10 17:02:00

Yes, I did consider that.

However, I thought it would be too brittle and hard for players to understand.

If the game is measuring majority in an area around a mother, if she takes one step to the left or right, the race of her next baby might change.  Majority in an area is a fickle thing.  Hard for players to know where the boundaries are.

#371 Re: Main Forum » Just another amusing picture. » 2020-03-10 16:35:45

I've been through the desert on a horse with no name
It felt good to be out of the rain
In the desert you can remember your name
'Cause there ain't no one for to give you no pain

After two days in the desert sun
My skin began to turn red
After three days in the desert fun
I was looking at a river bed
And the story it told of a river that flowed
Made me sad to think it was dead

#372 Re: News » Update: Table It » 2020-03-09 16:49:50

Hand sanitizer gel next week.

Sign of the times.


Also, don't believe the hype.

#373 Re: Main Forum » Trading » 2020-03-09 16:05:29

Probably these other players just don't have the knowledge to even understand your request or how to fulfill it.

I've been born in Qin town several times over the past few weeks, and there's always water around, but no oil.  When I walk around asking people where they're getting water from, nobody knows.  Where are you getting oil from?  Again, nobody knows.  There's no pressure currently, because of water reserves, so they're kinda coasting on the work of previous generations, for now, and they don't need to know right now.

So if you go to a brown village and ask them for rubber sap, most of them probably don't know how to get it, or what it even is that you want, or why you want it, or why they'd want sulfur in return.

This is one reality of a multiplayer game with new players coming in ever day.... and it's okay, I think.  It's not all that different from going into some isolated jungle village in real life and trying to get them interested in some lithium ion batteries.  They're like, "Huh?"

Also, this is part of what I mean about the "social challenge" of this kind of cross-cultural cooperation.  Once you find them, there's no guarantee that they will cooperate with you, for a whole host of reasons.

Maybe you have to teach them how/why rubber is good, across the language barrier...  and THAT is what I mean by "social puzzle gameplay."

It's the kind of thing you read about in philosophy or anthropology books.... but here you are, actually doing it, in a video game.

Standing there shouting "gavagai".... (look it up)

#374 Re: Main Forum » what is the point of places? » 2020-03-09 15:55:21

The "places" currently don't offer any benefit directly.

However, the score itself offers a few benefits.  You get more tool slots, and your stomach doesn't get as small in old age.

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