a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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People like you who dont ask in game "HOW" and "WHY" and dont read recepies on their own. You people who take food, destroy others hard work and call it a progress. You people who run away from others speaking to you with adivec... You destroy communities. Makes me sick.
Come on, this is uncalled for. He's proposing an alternative analysis of how to efficiently farm berries. It might be right or it might be wrong, but simply suggesting an alternative analysis is not equivalent to "destroying others' hard work".
My headcanon is that someone ran around with a knife and killed almost all humans on earth, completely destroying civilization as we know it. Only very few survived this troll apokalypse, but humanity got yet another chance to thrive under the kind protection of the carrot god.
Sorry for the super vague title, just wanted to pose a question or raise an issue that seems interesting to me. Not sure I can articulate my thoughts about it well.
It seems to me there are varying and conflicting ideas about what is valuable in the game. Maybe these ideas are evolving in a clear direction, or maybe not... anyway.
At first, what seems valuable is food, because without food, you just die.
But then, you notice that a well set-up farm is more valuable than just food, because rather than running around hoping to find more berries, it can produce a reliable, consistent source of food.
...but maybe clothes are more valuable, because they relieve a lot of food pressure, and free you to explore or chase other ideas, or move further up the tech tree...
...maybe a well-functioning community is more valuable, because four or five people working together well can produce a good farm, lots of food, and lots of clothes...
...so, maybe the most important job in the game is teaching, rather than farming or crafting? That's how you create communities, that's how you bind people together, that's how you get people to learn how to do all the little jobs that make a village function well...
...or maybe, it's the new, unique, and interesting experiences that players have that are valuable? If something happens, a "moment", something that turns into a memorable story, won't that keep that person coming back and playing the game again and again, looking for more of those experiences? Eventually, so long as they keep playing, they'll learn the crafting recipes they need, they'll learn to communicate clearly with others, they'll begin to teach the people they meet...
...so, I don't know. What do you value in the game? Why do you keep coming back and trying again, even after you've been murdered, or you've watched somebody devastate your carefully planted milkweed farm?
Hope this question makes some kind of sense.
Not really a counterpoint so much as a supplemental one: food is a transitory benefit. Clothes are a lasting legacy. Clothed people consume much less food, so while you definitely want to build population centres near somewhere they can eat, it's also good to have them close to someplace they can hunt rabbits and harvest milkweed. Milkweed can be farmed just like food, so if you can grow food, you can also grow milkweed. Rabbits, though, need rabbit holes, which are found in yellow plains.
I think the technology in the game currently makes it quite difficult to move past clothes / farms as the height of civilisation... but it's not stagnant. The proportion of games where I am entering a village or area with lots of "recoverable progress" is definitely rising. As the amount of clothes just "lying around" increases, the amount of time needed to be devoted to farming is going to get smaller and smaller; when you're fully dressed from the time you're a baby, the proportion of time devoted to survival needs drops sharply.
Lockable doors and keys will enter the game at some point, I imagine.
I also imagine they will create almost as many problems as they solve...
Looking forward to seeing how things evolve socially.
Well done on making fire! It's a big step!
Just tried this server for the first time... great fun! Abundance of cltohes and food everywhere meant that the struggle to survive was no longer really a struggle... which I meant I could focus on learning new things, and teaching what I'd learned to others! Great stuff...
haha, good point, Twinsen!
Glad it's being worked on. Even with the small and less-small problems, it's a fantastic and compelling game, can't get enough of it... looking forward to improvements of all kinds.
I wonder why people say "yes"? I ask "new player?" because basically while I'm nursing I'm not doing anything else, so it would be useful to teach some simple skills during that time. But when someone says they're not new, I just wait around... don't want to be patronising.
...maybe other parents are routinely abandoning babies who say they are new, so people learn they have to say they already know in order to get a chance to play? I know I often go through a long series of "false starts" before I get a chance to actually play the game.
B - There's a bear, killing everyone in the village, and you're all apparently so focussed on farming that you haven't noticed it. Please pay attention to the bear. It will definitely kill you if you don't.
You could have a "spectator mode" that allows you to watch over the actions of one of your living descendents. That might give you a sense of continuity without breaking the spirit of the game.
I always try to have a knife on hand to kill kids that don't listen.
...and in the game?
Doesn't this rely on having a good source of fresh soil, though? Either compost or a soil pit?
If there isn't soil around, wouldn't it be better to harvest all carrots and replant from wild seeds?
When you don't have the technology to build prisons yet...
Thanks, Jason.
I'm not a perfect mother, but I do try to raise every child that is born to me until they can eat. It's what I'd want for myself, so I try to do it for others, too. After that, they're on their own. Only exception is two children at once; you just can't sustain that on wild food alone.
Born as a baby to someone else? I'd say 30% of the time they raise me until I can eat. It's pretty frustrating, but I do understand there's a lot of new players coming in at the moment and they mostly just don't understand how to raise children efficiently, so they tend to give up on it.
Possible suggestion: IRL, breastfeeding commonly acts as a contraceptive. If it did the same in the game, it might reduce the number of unsustainable babies being born?
It seems there are many more new players now? When I spawn as an Eve it seems like most of my kids - no matter how much I try to take care of them - just doom themselves. And when I spawn as a baby the mothers don't know how to take care of me either. Combination of new players and tougher mechanics feels pretty punishing. I don't mind having mechanics that make farming less sustainable than it initially appears, but at the moment I think if you can get a fire going, living purely off rabbits is actually more viable...
Just had another idea... what if we used bones as a kind of "trail of breadcrumbs" leading out from big cities and villages? That way, it increases the chance that random wanderers will get the city back to working and ensure all that work doesn't go wasted...
I think hostile behaviour is OK as part of the game, and part of the puzzle of playing the game is to work out what the best responses are. Selfish and greedy people exist in reality, too.
However, there probably should be a limit on how much you can physically eat and how quickly. A thriving community shouldn't be able to be reduced to starving to death because one person went on a spree for 30 seconds.
Which instructions are Chinese to you? Can you post a link?
What if we assumed that every community that we built was going to collapse? Rather than building on the assumption that it can somehow be kept going forever, what if we designed it with the idea in mind that it will collapse, but it should be possible to resurrect it, too?
For example... building a surplus of carrots is no guarantee of a village's survival. A few noobs can easily eat through those in a short space of time and then wander off. But what if you build a large reservoir of carrot *seeds*? Rather than going for a farm that only-just produces enough seeds to restock its farms, why not have an excess of seed rows, so that every generation you make it through, you end up with a larger and larger seed surplus? Then, when a wanderer arrives in your dead village, they can replant everything quickly and easily...
EaterOfBerries wrote:(how do you stop a bad guy with a bow? a good guy with a bow!)
And so, sometime in pre-history, the proto-NRA was formed.
More seriously: I've noticed that issues of scarcity and violence in the game foster a pretty (paleo!)conservative bent in what looks like an early form of administration of towns. We're a long way off from the better angels of our natures; but things will get better, I hope.
Funny, I was thinking almost the opposite thing: with short lives, small communities, and no money, something akin to communism arises almost naturally. Without the element of violence, it would be a sort of pre-political paradise. The fact that players can kill each other, of course, creates a new dynamic...
Is there a 'death scream' or 'murder scream' in the game? When you hear a baby crying a screen or two away, you know that "something is going on". You can choose to react however you like, but it give you some awareness outside of the range of your immediate vision. If there was a blood-curdling scream each time a person was killed violently - either by an animal or another person - it would give you some warning that you were near a dangerous event, and give you a chance to respond as you saw fit; run away, fight back, etc etc.
Another possible change is that you could give people a random chance of fighting back. In reality, if you run around killing unarmed people with a knife, you are very likely to win most fights... but there's a small chance that you run into someone faster / stronger / luckier and they kill you instead. If one time in ten, stabbing someone killed you instead of the victim, it wouldn't eliminate griefing, but it would make it slower and more complex to do it consistently.