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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#26 Re: Main Forum » Tutzsssssss » 2019-06-02 17:58:54

Did you read the thread? No suggestions unless you have 15+ years experience in game design!

#27 Re: Main Forum » Question » 2019-06-02 04:30:23

-Town with sheep and no pump
-Eve finds an abandon camp or town and builds it up again
-Eve's kid or grand finds an abandon camp or town and builds it up again
-Town with pump and no engine
-Two towns find each other and build a road
-Eve's kid or grand kid in the wild
-Eve's kid or grand near a town with people
-Eve in the wild
-sausage town
-Looting an abandon town to make a new one
-Multi-family peaceful town
-Multi-family murder town
-Eve near a town with people
-Town under attack
-Town beyond repair and you must migrate
-psudo-Eve (runaway)
-psudo-Eve's kid
-Raiding a populated town

Tl;dr My playstyle is non-confrontational and a bit lazy.

#28 Main Forum » Down to three families » 2019-06-02 02:11:41

BerrypickerAF
Replies: 15

There are 3 towns to cycle through right now, all of them have topped out on the tech tree, two have lost their name and lineage. They are gigantic and full of clutter. People brag about how they did this or that a few lives before. People now grief just so they can escape these gigantic trash dumps.

Is this what you wanted, Jason?

#29 Re: Main Forum » Controversial: Enslaving other families. » 2019-05-28 00:42:31

DestinyCall wrote:

Pretty much this.   

If the game has reached the point where enslaving other races sounds like a good idea, you know there's something very wrong with the current meta.

giphy.gif

#30 Re: Main Forum » Big change to the way /DIE works (family skip list, Eve overload) » 2019-05-27 22:34:10

Twisted wrote:

Is this a server side change that's active right now or will it require an update to go out?

From what I can tell from the github link, it's server side.

Edit: It appears to be live as well, just went on a slashdie streak and it took me many tries to get to an eve. It really felt like cycling through families.

#31 Re: Main Forum » [DISCUSS] Zoomed Out FOV mod - discontinuation? » 2019-05-27 20:40:14

LunyTerror wrote:

Jason should make it an ingame feature.

Jason has explicitly and repeatedly stated that he will not include a zoom feature and does not condone it's use.

#32 Re: Main Forum » OHOL Memes » 2019-05-27 20:35:45

Lets necro this one cus I came across this pic and just had to

1fUrfpV.png

#33 Re: Main Forum » Controversial: Enslaving other families. » 2019-05-27 19:18:07

"Well that just sounds like slavery with extra steps."

Guys.. just stop. There's no good way to twist this. We already have full blown racism, if you put any form of slavery in the game you'll kill it. Realism aside, you have to draw the line somewhere and it is here.

#34 Re: Main Forum » I just had my best life.... (Share your stories) » 2019-05-27 19:12:19

Guppy wrote:
BerrypickerAF wrote:

My favorite one recently:
I was only but a little girl when my town was sacked by two raiders. When I realized what was going on I booked it outside of town and hid behind a tree near a bush. For years I'd just peak out to grab a berry and quickly hide again, I was like Anne Frank lol.
So after a while I took a chance and slowly snuck closer to what used to be my home. The raiders were gone, they killed everyone but only took a few things.

I started a fire and got up a yum bonus, I just hit 20 years of age so I was ready to repopulate. Three girls and one boy later, my town finally had some life in it again. I told my children the story of how their ancestors were brutally murdered by raiders, and to be wary of any outsiders. To kill them on sight. One of my boys swore revenge and took off in the direction the raiders were coming from once he was of age to wield a sword.

I died of old age surrounded by my grandchildren in the midst of a town bumbling with life yet again. I couldn't believe that I actually managed to not just survive the raid, but also repopulate and keep the family name alive.

I can't remember the name of the family anymore, It did die later that day, but I sure did everything I could to keep it going a few more gens.

Was your son successful in his quest?

Well I never saw him again so nobody will ever know~

#35 Re: Main Forum » I just had my best life.... (Share your stories) » 2019-05-27 18:56:22

My favorite one recently:
I was only but a little girl when my town was sacked by two raiders. When I realized what was going on I booked it outside of town and hid behind a tree near a bush. For years I'd just peak out to grab a berry and quickly hide again, I was like Anne Frank lol.
So after a while I took a chance and slowly snuck closer to what used to be my home. The raiders were gone, they killed everyone but only took a few things.

I started a fire and got up a yum bonus, I just hit 20 years of age so I was ready to repopulate. Three girls and one boy later, my town finally had some life in it again. I told my children the story of how their ancestors were brutally murdered by raiders, and to be wary of any outsiders. To kill them on sight. One of my boys swore revenge and took off in the direction the raiders were coming from once he was of age to wield a sword.

I died of old age surrounded by my grandchildren in the midst of a town bumbling with life yet again. I couldn't believe that I actually managed to not just survive the raid, but also repopulate and keep the family name alive.

I can't remember the name of the family anymore, It did die later that day, but I sure did everything I could to keep it going a few more gens.

#36 Re: Main Forum » Newer Player, 30hrs+2weeks, Quitting » 2019-05-27 07:29:01

RodneyC86 wrote:

So much for parenting concept that so many players are pushing for

Not just the players but the dev himself. And he can't figure out how to make it happen at this point either, but he sure is trying whatever he can to get us there.

#37 Re: Main Forum » What to do to attract new players? Advice for Jason that he never aske » 2019-05-27 07:21:17

One of these for the entire current player base:
73mrYQp.png
If we all were starting from square 1 we would be a lot more helpful to each other and promote learning/teaching, increasing retention rate. I was lucky to have started around the temp update where people had to start to figure things out all over again.

Alternatively lower the damn difficulty curve. It's asinine, try watching someone who's never played - even after a dozen lives they are barley catching on on how to be useful. I would compare it to Binding of Isaac (popular hardcore indie game) but without the fast paced action which drive you to learn and keep playing.
The tutorial needs to be mandatory after teaching you basic controls and how to make a fire (which let's be honest, you'll maybe do one every few lives unless you force eve spawn). The craft system could be a lot more accessible in-game too.

#39 Re: Main Forum » Newer Player, 30hrs+2weeks, Quitting » 2019-05-27 06:55:08

Dodge wrote:

[...]

Victim blaming now too eh? Wow.

I think ya'll need to step back and not just blame the recent updates. You need to remember what it's like to be a new player and barely able to keep yourself alive in the berry field. I actually let a friend play once because he was interested after watching me play, and even with me telling him exactly what to do he still struggled. And then he got scolded by some villager for being lazy and only eating/tending to berries. He couldn't even feel accomplished for learning how to do that in the first place (imo supposed to be the first job you learn and understand the system).
Mind you, I have countless hours and know most recipes/builds and I was holding his hand through the entire game just to help keep him alive, and it was still a very frustrating experience for him. Most new players don't have the advantage of someone sitting beside them explaining the social norms and mechanics.
Even I have gotten yelled at for talking and 'standing around not working'. It's not just edge cases, god forbid I want to RP and have some fun without being accused of being Diogenes.

Do your part and help people learn, even if they don't ask - offer. Don't be toxic shits scolding people for 'not playing right'. The learning curve in this game is asinine, and it gets steeper with every update.

#40 Re: Main Forum » Anyone going to PAX? » 2019-05-26 06:35:59

Oh my lord I just realized what those berries are. They grow in the country I'm from, my gma had a few bushes in her garden. I just never knew THATS the english name lmao

I'd be careful offering a bowl of them (if you can even get your hands on a bunch in the states) - they do the thing that cherry tomatoes do where they pop when you bite them and seed and pulp explodes in your mouth. I love them, but a lot of people hate the mouth feel. They tend to be a bit bitter, it might not make a good first impression lol.

Why not berry pie?

#41 Re: Main Forum » TOMATOES a tool for griefers ! » 2019-05-25 18:00:23

I have a hunch Jason is one of those who recoil in disgust at the idea of biting into a raw tomato lol

#42 Re: Main Forum » In your opinion, what is the weakest aspect of the game? » 2019-05-25 17:56:44

Weakest aspect over the entirety of the game? Jason insisting on working alone. It doesn't necessarily mean it makes the game 'bad', but it results in a plethora of issues that most games don't have to deal with.
We're lucky there is such a small player base now, as I can hardly imagine Jason able to run support and work on updates/fixes for the game if we had a daily average of 1k players even.

Other than that i'm gonna have to agree with the storage issue being the single most persistent bother in the game. Even something like a tool shed or tool rack would make a huge impact, as it's an easy place we can all agree on to keep tools. Grain silo for the unending piles of grain, and a manure pit for sheep poo could solve some of these issues.

Oh and I rly want some seeds of whatever variate of tomato Jason put in the game, cus I'd kill for a bunch that would never spoil lol

#43 Re: Main Forum » Hands up for taking off flies » 2019-05-08 02:40:10

No. Skeeters are literally the only mechanic in the game that makes a player depended on the kindness of their tribe. If anything we need more mechanics that force us to care for one another.

Nerf them a bit, fine. Something like citronella candles - but don't get rid of them entirely.

#44 Re: Main Forum » OHOL as a model of human society » 2019-05-08 01:59:58

Aight so I didn't mean for this to go that political, my mistake. I did not intend to romanticize the past and merely made some speculations born from a layman's mind.
Please don't make this a 'the world always sucked' or a feminist issue, I see now I provided a lot of fuel for such discussions, though my intentions were purely philosophical pondering of how OHOL is a fascinating, albeit not accurate, glance into human society.

#45 Main Forum » Hardships form close bonds » 2019-05-08 01:53:33

BerrypickerAF
Replies: 2

Looks like Jason has been searching for ways to increase bonds within families, and I think we're overlooking a root cause of human bonding while trying to find ways to 'make' people care - tragedy and hardships.

I don't think I've ever seen people grow closer than they do during/after a tragedy. When a natural disaster hits, the community grows close over their shared loss. When a family member falls terminally ill, the family unit grows closer over the pain and grief they experience together.
In contrast OHOL is basically a utopia. Players don't care because they don't really have to. There are no threats of disasters, illness or droughts, and barely any times in which you have to rely on the charity of your family to survive (and the one thing we have everyone complains about...). No plagues to rid half your population causing everyone to have to work extra hard, no floods forcing you to rebuild together. No droughts driving people to store and ration food and turn away strangers.
I see Jason mention these scenarios of 'if you had to feed your kid or another, you should always chose yours', but I honestly have never encountered such a situation. Food is either in abundance or so short that everyone is starving, rarely something in between. If it occurs they are merely outlier cases.

This also plays into caring for your children and the lack thereof in OHOL. Pregnancy is a huge investment and risk for a female and can be life-threatening, so the baby instantly has value and it is in the best interest of the mother to keep it alive so the time and resources it took from her weren't wasted. When you just pop out babies without having to invest anything in OHOL, the baby becomes a free and abundant resource. And people don't care about things they can have in abundance and can get for free, the baby might as well be a fast food straw.

Now I don't think pregnancy is a solution in this game, honestly I can't think of a good way to implement it that would fit with the current spawn system. It's crossed my mind to have players 'spawn' unborn as a bump in the mothers womb, while still being able to see what she sees and 'hear' what she's saying. That way you could at least see a bit of the town and your ma could already tell you things, but it would be pretty damn boring for the unborn. Perhaps the mom-to-be would be pregnant for 1-2mins and would have some limitations (no heavy lifting, hunger pibs go down faster, etc), but I think it might turn off a lot of players to increase the 'doing nothing' time at spawn from 3mins to 4-5, despite creating a bit more involvement for the mom and costing her a bit of her life to motivate her to favor her own offspring.

And finally a big reason why people care for kids is because they often need their support in old age. Elders in OHOL are just perfectly fine on their own, they can feed themselves and still haul rocks until the day they die. Why care for your kids/family if you don't need them when you get old? I think introducing some dependence on your family could help create an atmosphere of kinship. Sure there's gonna be the ones who still don't care, but I think after a few lives dying prematurely because nobody cared enough about them to feed them once they hit 55 will create motivation to form some bonds next time.

I think it might be worth a shot before trying stuff like limiting tribes to a single race and unintentionally angering the SJW media lol

#46 Re: Main Forum » OHOL as a model of human society » 2019-05-08 00:12:14

wio wrote:
BerrypickerAF wrote:

Another thing I pondered about was why people are more likely to grief in larger towns and how boredom and lack of purpose leads people to 'immoral' decisions.
Your only goal is survival, but you only have one life. If you are born into a small village your purpose is usually clear, as it's easy to find something to do that helps secure the survival of yourself and your tribe. These lives usually tend to be 'fun', as you always feel that you contribute and it hardly gets boring.
But be born into a large town that is superfluous with food and littered with half-finished projects, you usually find yourself wandering about looking for stuff to do. Survival isn't important anymore, you get bored and don't have much motivation to finish other people's work or start a long-term building project yourself. Some might just busy themselves doing odd things here and there, some just talk shit by the berries, some kill themselves, and others start taking out their boredom on others and become destructive. But none of it ever feels like it has any meaning or makes any difference.

I think there is truth in this observation, but it is mixing up separate things. Rates of crime and rates of suicide/depression are separate. Crime is going down while suicide is going up. I think abundance plays a role in some of the dysfunction, but I think ideology plays a bigger role. I don't think ideology plays a significant role in OHOL, though. That is to say, you don't have OHOL religions that give people a sense of community or lead to more generosity among the tribe.

Admittedly I mixed a few things up here, I didn't mention violence in the IRL part because I wasn't sure how/if it related to my statement. I want to address the lack of ideology/religion a bit, as it kind of sparked my post today but I didn't touch on it.
It's hard to talk about morality without bringing up religion as it has brought a lot of unity to the world, for better or worse. I think the closest OHOL can be compared to in these abundant late-stage cities though is existentialism. I argue that players are robbed of the original 'purpose' of the life in their game (survival), therefor have to create their own meaning.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but something the human mind seems to have a difficult time coping with in lack of guidance. Religion could arguably serve as this guiding purpose, as many people IRL chose to do. But currently in the game there doesn't seem to be much incentive to move away from this existential view (I exist to make my own purpose) and adopt ideologies instead (I exist for a pre-determined purpose).
I can't conceive of a way to entice people to do so either in the game's current state, as there doesn't seem to be anything that is out of the player's control aside of other players. Crops always grow, there are no droughts nor floods, no natural disasters, no plagues - the world is boringly safe and there is no need for faith to plead for prosperity and health. Even the only thing that could be considered a catastrophe (Apocalypse) is entirely controlled by the players.

Perhaps adding a little bit of RNG based chaos/disasters might spark some religion. Who knows, maybe that one tribe that prays to a warding sky god (or Twisted, IDK) by placing a pie on an altar just happens to never have been hit with floods. The rituals didn't actually do anything, it's RNG, not a craft recipe. Or maybe it DID work and the sky god is real? I sure as hell won't anger the village and tempt fate by taking that pie from the altar.

#47 Re: Main Forum » My favorite Quotes from Jason » 2019-05-07 22:25:53

I can't even be mad anymore, it's like knowing someone's an arsonist but you don't say anything because you lowkey love watching stuff burn down.

#48 Main Forum » OHOL as a model of human society » 2019-05-07 21:06:10

BerrypickerAF
Replies: 19

I've been wanting to write something along these lines for a while now, but I have a hard time putting my thoughts into words. I'll give it a try though. There's nothing in particular I'm hoping to accomplish here, but feel free to chime in with your own theories.

After playing OHOL for a while I found myself looking at the game and the 'societies' it creates through a philosophical lens. It is utterly fascinating to me how the game allows human morality and mentality to show itself in it's rawest form. I applaud Jason for having created such a platform, allowing us to interact with such anonymity to let the true human spirit show.

I started to pay more and more attention to the 'unspoken rules' that tend to emerge when camps hit a certain level of population. There are some things that people just tend to do out of personal morality, for example not murdering someone who hasn't done any wrong (I'll get to griefers later). How curious is it though, that as soon as someone goes against this unspoken moral, the victim of a unjust murder will have droves of villagers come to their aide, regardless of relation to the victim.
Now you might think to yourself 'duh of course' - but think again, nobody told you that's what you had to do. Nobody told you it was wrong to kill someone without reason.
It's a game after all, there are no real consequences. This is how griefers play, and it is just as valid as the game's code allows for it, but somehow we still perceive it as wrong and that such an action is worthy of punishment.
Okay so got it, killing is morally wrong, even in a simulated society. Pretty basic stuff.

Delving deeper I focused more on the traditions that seem to contradict IRL morals in some ways. It becomes apparent very quickly that females tend to run the show, girls are the most valuable resource and if there are none left the town is doomed. Occasionally you might even come across 'amazon' camps where males are exiled or executed.
Makes sense in the game, girls die - town dies. But isn't it the same with humankind as well?
So why does OHOL mainly produce matriarchal societies, whereas humanity skewed heavily towards patriarchy? I am sure it's mostly just due to numbers and lack of physical differences between genders (no pregnancy/related complications), but it makes me wonder if early human tribes actually were ruled by women, as the death of all females would lead to the death of the tribe.

Another thing I pondered about was why people are more likely to grief in larger towns and how boredom and lack of purpose leads people to 'immoral' decisions.
Your only goal is survival, but you only have one life. If you are born into a small village your purpose is usually clear, as it's easy to find something to do that helps secure the survival of yourself and your tribe. These lives usually tend to be 'fun', as you always feel that you contribute and it hardly gets boring.
But be born into a large town that is superfluous with food and littered with half-finished projects, you usually find yourself wandering about looking for stuff to do. Survival isn't important anymore, you get bored and don't have much motivation to finish other people's work or start a long-term building project yourself. Some might just busy themselves doing odd things here and there, some just talk shit by the berries for an hour, some kill themselves, and some start taking out their boredom on others and become destructive. But none of it ever feels like it has any meaning or makes any difference.

It's almost eerie how this game acts as a small-scale exhibition of the human mind, as we're seeing this happen in our world right now with increases in depression, anxiety and suicide due to people lacking any purpose in life and not having any feeling of worth or contribution. The only true 'reason' we are born for is survival, evolution hasn't caught up in our monkey brains yet, so having this problem 'solved' from the start by being born into the first world creates all kinds of new problems as our primitive brains grasp for any sense of reason or meaning.
I seriously think this game should be pitched to various universities as a method of studying the human mind and how our environment affects our decisions and mental health. I'm just some nerd with too much time to think about stuff and can't do anything with all this information, but this could be a valuable tool in the hands of the right minds.

All grievances over fences, balancing, temperature, etc aside, this is still by far the most interesting game I ever had the pleasure to play. No other video game has sparked such deep interest in anthropology in me, and I doubt anything will ever come close to it.

#49 Re: Main Forum » Jason might as well go quiet again » 2019-04-25 05:05:47

jasonrohrer wrote:

[...redacted excuses...]
So, duh, idiot dev, hire someone!

But I don't think you'd like that either.  Then, instead of me answering you in the forums occasionally, you'd have some hired, glad-handing bozo answering you in the forums every single day.  It would feel fake.  It would be fake.  That person would be hired to never get irritated at your pestering.  To always say "yes sir" an "the customer is always right" and so on.  But I don't think you want that.  You wouldn't be pestering me so much unless you wanted a reaction from me, at least sometimes.  There are several people in the forums who are clearly, directly trolling me!  A hired customer-service representative cannot be trolled.


For someone who is so eager to 'throw shit at the wall to see what sticks', you just can't seem wrap your head around entertaining the idea of outsourcing work in a positive way, it's almost ironic.

Why are you so vehemently against even trying to accept help, even just to see what happens? You seem so convinced of what would happen if you did, how you would react negatively, how the community would react negatively, everything crashes down, fears, anxieties etc..

If you can't do that, at the very least work on getting better at managing your time so you don't get so overwhelmed, and quit prioritizing random 'fixes' to non-issues over stuff that is much more vital to game play.

#50 Main Forum » Jason might as well go quiet again » 2019-04-24 21:21:55

BerrypickerAF
Replies: 27

I know this probably will just fall on deaf ears, and at worst I will get banned - but let's be real here - Jason doesn't care about us at all, and I just want to tell you why I feel this way.

First, let me just show you a couple examples of how he treats his community:

jasonrohrer wrote:

You already experienced personal trouble with the curse changes, Tarr?

Oh, that's right, they're not even live yet...

(very professional)

jasonrohrer wrote:

Did you watch the video?

(snappy reply to a user asking for clarification)

Okay so we established that he isn't exactly gifted in the field of community management, no big deal, few can be good at doing everything.


However, over the past month or so I have seen a drastic increase in activity by him here, but it never feels like he actually listens. How often have we gotten a late-night post with a wild idea from him met with lots of confusion by the community, only to be implemented in less than a week in his original conception?

The fence thing really is a prime example. To sum it up in case someone missed it:

Players:
Jason: Why are you not trading?
Players: Wait, we're supposed to trade?
Jason: I will give you fences so you can have property
Players: Pls no
Jason: Here's your fences big_smile

This pattern has repeated a few times now, and it's just the latest example. It's as if he invents problems to fix with drastic changes, instead of focusing on polishing the game. I almost feel like a fool for wasting time by trying to communicate with him, it falls on deaf ears anyway.

Why pretend to care about what we think and want when he's just going to do whatever he wants anyway?

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