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The new update, race cars, has nothing to do with the problem right now. There was no change to Eve spawns. The game is on the front page of Steam and went on sale. Just a huge influx of new players is causing the state of the game we see now.
I'd rather not get into arguments here, but the update is part of it. Update forces server shutdowns, which causes all existing families to die. This means when the server comes back up, all new eve spawns are generated. I have yet to see any of our previously established towns. This means either:
A. Server was wiped, or
B. We have spawned far enough away from old towns where they cannot be found
If we were able to get to old established towns, it would have eased things a lot more even for new players, as infrastructure would already be present, and food bonuses would still be high from being new families.
We as a community understand you are probably frustrated. Things on the main servers are extremely hectic right now. Until everyone gets a bit more familiar and capable to contribute to a town, unfortunately things are going to be rough. I want to make sure you all know a few things:
1. This will not last forever. Once some towns actually start getting established, and food production more stable, it will be a lot easier to try and learn the game. Many of our vet players are very willing to teach, its just that in an eve camp with tons of new players there's virtually no time to teach because we'll all starve.
2. Don't take a mother abandoning you personally. This is super, super important. Reasoning is, if we try to raise every single baby we have, we won't be able to get any productive work done and we will all definitely starve out. Eve camps are a very delicate situation and if most players don't know what to do, it can get ugly very quickly.
3. We are genuinely glad to have you all here. I encourage you all to stick around and perhaps try on a different day when things are less hectic. You will see a drastic change in how players behave and the difficulty of starvation.
4. In the meantime, if you're frustrated with the main servers, you can alternatively try using a combination of onetech and low pop servers to learn a bit more. You most likely won't have baby overload, food around you won't deplete as fast, and you can take your time more to learn how to play the game. That's how many of us got competent in the game. How do you join a low pop server?
First, go to http://onehouronelife.com/reflector/ser … ion=report. This will show you a list of all the servers OHOL hosts. The top two are the main servers that the game puts you into by default. Choose an empty (or close as you can to empty) server on the list. Then, in your main menu for OHOL, go to settings. Select "Use custom server", then put the server address in the box to the right. The port should remain 8005 for all the servers. Then just hit back, and login. This will spawn you on one of the low pop servers.
Second, use http://www.onetech.info as a guideline for how to make things. All current recipes in the game are on this website.
Lastly, feel free to ask questions on these forums. I'm sure someone will be happy to answer.
Take care, and welcome aboard new players!
Edit: Another resource, this video is a bit outdated but Twisted goes over some of the basics in this wonderful video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNIVKgR … BunnyGames
I discovered a new "meta" that actually helps get a village beyond complete and utter starvation...but it's a tough choice.
If you're born as girl, if everyone around is newbie or seemingly gonna starve out, run off at 3 to a fertile piece of land and self develop as quickly as possible. This worked for me over a few lives, managed to get a few fams to iron processing at least. Was nice when people were able to survive more than 5 seconds.
Also, I second exactly what happynova said. Just try to say a word of encouragement or two while they're still alive, reassuring them this is just a nutty time and once things stabilize it will be easier to teach them. Some of the new players i had were very understanding to that :3
Also RIP gene score.
Peace and love, I don't like to see a bad mood in this community
We are not here to fight each other, we are here to play and talk about OHOL ...
100% agree with you. I like to think I'm staying civil in this discussion. I hope everyone can do the same. Finger-pointing and crafting daggers out of words are part of what drove me away from this community in the first place.
bpskotch wrote:One would be, what would signify a "joining" of a male and female?
One of the issues raised in the past is that "marriage" varies by culture. This isn't necessarily an issue - this is Jason's game; he picks the foods and item he chooses to represent, the US names, and only officially supports English. It *could* be the version of marriage he uses himself. However I think a better system would be to have several "vows"; a marriage ceremony would literally be an exchange of vows, and people could pick the ones they like. Such as:
I vow to take your name.
I vow to share parentage of children.
I vow to tell you my location at all times.or for adoption "I vow to call you father/son/daughter"
Another approach, would just be flat out 'doing it'
The real issue with representing this (even just the shared parentage above) is that once it is possible, you have to consider what happens if someone tries to make it non-consensual (rape, speaking plainly). This might not be welcome by many players, especially if they are playing games to escape a real world trauma. It could also be bad press for the game.
This is what always comes up as the sticking point. Any proposal for male-female game mechanics needs to consider this and convince Jason that it won't be a problem.
Yeah I always figured if it was ever implemented, it would have to be a relatively simple system. Since pro-creation is necessary for family continuation, it would have to be quick and easy to do so that even new players could adapt rather easily.
Mhm, to be fair I don't like the second option either, and agree with those types of issues coming up for sure. Plus, maybe it's just me personally, but I'm just not comfy with the actual action of sex being in the game. But this could just be me, personally, but I would tend to think there are likeminded people out there.
The male character just no longer is 'son of Eve Sarah' or stop being an 'uncle'. They end up in their own category.
I actually see some logic in that idea of fathers simply automatically disconnecting with the family upon fatherhood, it would be a simple solution that wouldn't be hard to implement. It may not make sense from a realistic standpoint, but again its a game so its not meant to be reality, simply mimic it in some ways perhaps.
As for the incest discussion, this will just keep devolving into morals and religiously based claims so I think I'm going to drop that part of the conversation here. Point taken.
The same game exists on 15 public servers, and even if it didn't, private servers would still be a possibility for anyone (the code is out there, for free and always has been). There's not necessarily anyone else around. Jason has said it before also that the game is designed to be completely playable in single-player mode, since he talked about supporting solo play here: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4848.
So, most definitely, NO. The game is not *at its core* a social game.
If the game isn't a social game at its core, why does the game by default put everyone on the same server? Why do a majority of players play this way? Just because a game is able to be played single player as you pointed out, doesn't mean its not meant to be a social game. It simply means the option to play alone is there. The intent of course is to cater to a larger audience of players, or players like me who enjoy playing both ways for a change of pace.
Even the flavor text Jason has on the main page about the game implies the game is about family and interactions with others. There's no mention of playing by yourself to build up on your own.
bpskotch wrote:Jason's determination on having trade be part of this game.
I'm not talking about Jason, I'm not addressing Jason, you brought up trade in this forum post. I want to address you.
That's fine and dandy, but what I think doesn't really bear much relevance on where the game continues to go. This is why I state trade as I do, because it's what Jason wants to do. You will find I'd rather go with the flow and see what can be done to work with the direction he has in mind for the game. If you want to know what I think personally? I like the idea of trade. But that is still separate from Jason's vision for the game.
bpskotch wrote:The whole fatherhood aspect of things has been discussed countless times...between the forums, discord, and in-game. It's simply not feasible for the style of game OHOL is, and Jason has already made it pretty clear in the past its not gonna happen. Don't get me wrong, I share your sentiment, but its just not gonna work for this game.
This is what upsets me the most, you saying things like "It's just not going to work in this game."
Incorrect, I said "not feasible for the style of game OHOL is". This implies that in its current state, implementation is not very likely, but I am not saying the game couldn't change in the future to a style that does support a fatherhood model. Again, you're being presumptive about the meaning behind my words, I don't think we disagree as much as you're implying we do.
bpskotch wrote:As for not having babies in other cities, this was something Jason added not that long ago, the homelands update. The point was, before this, almost EVERYONE would clump up in one big megacity, resources became widely available, and honestly the game got too easy. There was no way to try and implement trade when everything was already shared by everyone in one place. Again, this isn't to say that trade is well implemented in the game as it stands (which it certainly isn't, and Jason has a lot of work ahead if he's to make it work), but that was the intent behind the update.
I really wish you, and many others, would take your own personal responsibility for what gets added to the game and stop blaming Jason for changes you and others don't like.
Including myself.
Jason is making this game for us, based on us and how we engage with him. We are just as responsible at this stage for what is in the game, if not more so, than he is. He is reacting to many of us, we are just reacting to one of him.
Be responsible for the part of us you are.
I'm not blaming Jason for anything. Jason himself said some similar things when these updates were released, and he made pretty clear that his intention was not what was happening at that time. All I'm doing is stating "this is what happened, and here is why".
If anything, what I'm saying now should only echo what has been said in the past. Jason made it clear fatherhood was not going to happen in his own words.
The amount of wild food can get increased by changing it so that "tall" objects spawn above "short" objects, or the pip drain rate could get changed, or food could give more pips. The difficulty of the game is not fixed whatsoever, as changes like the temperature overhaul, and the recent food changes demonstrate.
Keep in mind when I speak of the game, I mostly speak for as it stands right now, vs. what could potentially change in the future.
Fathers could just stop being in a family when they reproduce or marry.
Could you elaborate on this a bit more?
Also, it isn't like the characters have real genetics. Your in-game "mother" has no relation to you whatsoever, other than by the game saying so.
Of course not, again we are not going by our real life identities, but the ones we take when we play this game. Contextually, your avatar could be safely presumed to have genetics.
Additionally, consider the scenario that people would be in the real world if people were actually rebuilding civilization from scratch. Do you actually believe that if we were in such a scenario, that incest could reasonably always get avoided? The possibility of fatherhood, and even "incest", would add some sense of realism to the game.
I will not deny that in this scenario your words hold some merit.
Furthermore, people don't condemn characters in the Judeo-Christian Bible because of incest. Lot's daughters get their father drunk to have children... and the book still gets regarded as holy. And have you ever been to a place on reddit like dirtypenpals or the video site Pornhub? If "incest" were that much of a psychological problem to people, "incest" pornography/text fantasy would be extremely rare and difficult to find, and people would turn off watching Xev Bellringer, because of the taboos she breaks. It turns out, it doesn't work that way.
Keep in mind much of the Bible is telling a story of how things happened, not necessarily condoning them. Infact, most of these types of instances are there to portray the sins of man, and what not to do. If you search in the book of Leviticus, you will find that several instances of incest are condemned, some in multiple places.
I have not visited those parts of the web and to be fair, I have no intent to do so. I think its safe to say that people visiting those sites most likely do not represent the majority of people. Either way, I only brought up the incest part of things because there have been discussion on it in this forum prior, so I felt it worth mentioning.
Oh, and the game has had plenty of murder in it already. Usually, or at least often enough, murder is the bigger crime or moral failing of people. It doesn't turn people off as much as some apparently believe that "incest" would. While fatherhood *would* appeal to many people, as has gotten acknowledged above.
While its easy to think so, biblically speaking, all sins are treated as equal. Either way, I'm not here to get into a huge religious debate.
Plus with something like marriage, or a reproduction mechanic, in a social game, that leads to the possibility of cheating. And then before you know it, people are throwing chairs, because of infidelity, while the audience shouts "Jerry! Jerry!", because of all the drama.
Not gonna lie, your Jerry Springer reference gave me a good chuckle.
bpskotch wrote:Also, did I mention this also requires going to the other families?
No, that wouldn't be necessary.
Only in the context of avoiding incest. I should have clarified more precisely.
bpskotch wrote:Thinking about my last statement, I am going to presume the solution to this would be ditching homelands and allowing multi-family towns again. Welp, there goes the prospect of trade again.
So what? Trade would be a hassle, as the whole zone restriction, and also tool restrictions demonstrate. Neither of those lead to anything interesting for players, so there's no good reason at all to believe that trade would. And trade is a boring in concept and would be boring in game. Contrary to what trade goes with psychologically, people don't play games to realize their dependence/inter-dependence in the world, or to feel more dependent on others in the world. People play games to feel empowered.
Like I said to Morti, I'm only giving trade weight because of how much Jason wants to have it as part of the game. I don't disagree with your final statement here, however.
bpskotch wrote:Bots would take a lot of the life out of the game, since as it stands now, we always know there is another person on the other side of each ingame avatar.
No, you do NOT always know that, since bots are permitted, and likely have played in the past with you or someone else in this thread. Also, characters don't die when the human player leaves, and I've known of plenty of times where people have fed female characters who were "potatoes", not moving or doing anything other than getting fed. The game was NOT ruined for the people feeding those female characters. So, that bots would ruin the game is not well grounded.
To be fair, if there were actual bots playing this game up until this point, I never knew that was actually a thing in this game. Interesting that people would feel the need to run a bot in this game lol.
Anyways, as far as the 'potato' aspect, I don't feel this is an accurate representation of what a bot is. A bot is generally seen as a computer program controlling something that would normally be human-controlled, to perform various tasks. I think its pretty easy to say that this is not the same as a player who simply goes AFK, or has disconnected, since at that point they perform no tasks.
Also, I never said "ruin", I said "take the life out of". There is a difference in meaning here. "Ruin" implies the almost absolute destruction of a game, "take the life out of" implies the game is still intact, but is simply less interesting.
Also, given that the player count for this game continues to decline, which looks likely to happen, you may well wish you were playing with more bots.
No, most definitely not. OHOL is at its core a social game, if I was surrounded by a bunch of bot players I would rather go to low pop and play solo at that point. Or play a single player game, which is designed to be played alone.
Why do we need trade in this scenario?
If we can do without men being necessary for reproduction, why couldn't we do without other aspects of our past being necessary?
Do we need to implement slavery as well?
First of all, I never said anything about slavery. Considering most of the modern world exists having trade but not slavery, why did you feel the need to add this? Please don't take my words out of context.
Second, I am only pushing the need for trade based on Jason's determination on having trade be part of this game. It would be best to take up this issue directly with him, rather than me.
It would be feasible if player population were high enough, or if bots got put into the game by basic design, instead of only player created bots. Note that bots already get birthed in the game sometimes. 2 parent reproduction wouldn't work in a context like 2HOL, because player population isn't high enough, and they don't have bots that the game delivers by default.
From talking to the game designer of Survive Together, fathers come as planned for Survive Together, though the game designer also wants to do things like children of lizards, and has lots of other ideas in mind, I'm sure, also.
Player population isn't the only foreseeable issue with fatherhood implementation, though.
One would be, what would signify a "joining" of a male and female? One option would be marriage, even at a basic command level, however I would think that if we're getting sentimental enough to want a father figure, we're also gonna be sentimental about who we marry in-game. Due to the (generally) high difficulty and need to keep things moving, especially in an eve camp, there is typically not enough time to to establish enough of a conversation to even contemplate any such thing. Even in a more established town, having only 60 minutes, one would tend to work on projects to the furthest extent they can before their time is up, and find that 60 minutes quickly spent before realizing they never had kids because they never got around to it.
Another approach, would just be flat out 'doing it', but despite the cartoony dongs and coochies I don't really find much appeal to that personally, and I feel many people would feel the same way. It would kind of pivot the focal point in a different direction, I would think.
This also leaves the additional problem of incest. Mind you, I will not deny that since families self-propagate within themselves, it could be said with a degree of certainty that it already does, in fact exist on a subtle level, however any sort of joining would completely bring this to the front and center, leaving the only "right" thing to do, being finding other families and mating with them. And then that goes into the race/abilites of the kids, etc etc...it becomes a long deep complicated rabbit hole.
Also, did I mention this also requires going to the other families? Back to the same problem we have with racial specialization, in a sense.
Edit: Thinking about my last statement, I am going to presume the solution to this would be ditching homelands and allowing multi-family towns again. Welp, there goes the prospect of trade again.
Think the bottom line is while it seems simple to say fatherhood implementation is a good idea (and honestly, I'm not necessarily disagreeing), implementation would be an extremely complicated task that could fundamentally change the game in many ways.
Edit 2: Bots would take a lot of the life out of the game, since as it stands now, we always know there is another person on the other side of each ingame avatar.
The whole fatherhood aspect of things has been discussed countless times...between the forums, discord, and in-game. It's simply not feasible for the style of game OHOL is, and Jason has already made it pretty clear in the past its not gonna happen. Don't get me wrong, I share your sentiment, but its just not gonna work for this game.
As for not having babies in other cities, this was something Jason added not that long ago, the homelands update. The point was, before this, almost EVERYONE would clump up in one big megacity, resources became widely available, and honestly the game got too easy. There was no way to try and implement trade when everything was already shared by everyone in one place. Again, this isn't to say that trade is well implemented in the game as it stands (which it certainly isn't, and Jason has a lot of work ahead if he's to make it work), but that was the intent behind the update.
Ironically I just posted a story for the first time recently on the forum, about the last man standing in the Silverhorn fam. But to answer your question about images, you need to have the image hosted somewhere on the web, then use a img tag to link it in your post.
Something like...(take the *'s out)
[img*]http://www.somewebsite.com/someimage.png[/img*]
to be honest out of all the towns I've been in, that town had the best yum supply
Yeesh, that town was rough.
Girl was Belle Catto. Guy was Readus Catto.
Ah yes now I remember, although hindsight I think the girl was just led on by him, and I killed her without actually witnessing her doing anything bad....she did curse me in the end but what can you do. Sometimes situations are hard to discern.
Edit: They did get quite salty so maybe I don't feel THAT bad.
Sadly I don't remember the names but cool that I was with a forum member haha. Thank you, to be honest out of all the towns I've been in, that town had the best yum supply, and they're the "useless" race xD
This turned into a really interesting story.
I was Sam Silverhorn, born to the white fam. During my early life I did what I usually do, look around for the highest priority thing that needs work. I noticed the newcomen pump was torn seal, and we had no rubber, so I planned on running a cart of buckets for water when i got old enough. In the meantime, I decided to help a guy smithing. Apparently, he was aiming to make an engine, so I figured I'd give him a hand.
Early on, a trollish black guy with a delivery truck came through, stealing odds and ends and throwing out slander that he was gonna have his family come and invade, yadda yadda. I pretty much blew him off, some of the others followed him around a bit but otherwise he just kept running around spewing random nonsense. I just ignored him and proceeded to continue working.
About mid life, we had a crisis. All girl babies had suicided, and my mom, the last girl, was now infertile. At this point we knew the family was doomed, but we decided to make the most of it and play around anyway. The guy who I was helping smith decided he was tired, and oped to suicide.
All the meanwhile, the black guy with the truck had brought another girl in, whom apparently brought a bear in with her. I decided enough was enough, and took to the bow to take out the girl, and then subsequently the bear. Finally, the truck guy took one too many drives around the area and I managed to shoot him down. One of our own took his truck and went for a joy ride. But I stayed, I was determined.
Finally clear of all distractions, aside the timing assembly, I managed by the last 5 minutes to bust out the engine from start to finish. Even though I know it would eventually just get looted or lost to time, it was satisfying to defy the odds and finish it before dying as the final member of the fam.
To prevent an overload of hungry and dead animal babies, domestic pigs and sheep now wait until you feed them before they have babies, so you can control the population yourself.
I'd like some clarification on this...does this mean that mutton and wool effectively had their cost doubled? (feed adult, then feed baby)
Here’s an idea, make the engine only removable if the well is abandoned.
To be honest I've had the idea of whites experiencing no homesickness in other people's villages. This way they can still be around for translation when they're needed, maybe even charge a tax in material for their homeland to keep them running? We'd have to kill paper translation for them to have an edge though.
And the argument here is what? That oil is so valuable that gingers will never trade it?
Evidenced by what? By only ginger villages having water pumps?
VOG survey says brown and black villages also have water pumps currently.
My argument for trade being unbalanced has nothing to do with their argument about contstraints in the game.
Also, having a pump is completely irrelevant to having oil to run said pump. Browns/blacks alone can easily build all the infrastructure to support oil consumption, this doesn't mean they can easily negotiate for said oil.
Let me do some math here.
Let's start with the fundamental principle that towns require two main resources to maintain life, both of which are eventually bottlenecked to kerosene:
1. Water
2. Iron
One could argue that rubber is also needed however the main purpose of rubber is to provide water in the end (newcomen pump or newcomen rig), so i left it out.
It takes a single rubber tire per run on a working oil rig to get 1x tank of oil.
An average rig can give you roughly 11 tanks before exhausting, after which you must scout another distant tarry to repeat the process.
11 tanks = 11 tires which roughly comes out to:
3x Bucket of Latex
3x Palm Oil
3x Sulfur
All of which are readily available, and easily renewable.
11 tanks of oil can yield either:
2,640 units of water OR
330 units of iron (after subtracting the steel chisel per run cost)
That much water and iron, even if split up, is enough to pretty much guarantee the survival of a town for at least a day or two IRL time. It's security, knowing your town will flourish (aside bad baby RNG/griefers/other uncontrollable factors)
With that being said, knowing that this kerosene will keep my town alive for a long time, I don't want to trade it. So maybe I'll trade 1-2 tanks to a town for bulk rubber to fund further rigs. But here's the thing:
The effort taken to gather rubber supplies and produce is minuscule compared to the effort of oil; oil cannot be produced in your backyard (except maybe once if you have nearby tarry). You have to actively seek new tarries that will become more distant as time goes on, making oil acquisition harder.
Palm RESPAWNS NATURALLY.
Sulfur RESPAWNS NATURALLY.
Rubber trees can be farmed and regrown in same location.
So one might argue, oh since oil is worth so much more why not trade for bulk rubber? Simple. I don't need bulk rubber. Suppose I traded 3-4 tanks of oil/kero for 8+ buckets of Oiled/Sulfured latex. Guess what? I don't need rubber again for the next few rigs. That's a few days IRL time. Meanwhile the whites, browns and blacks will dry up without more oil, and quickly.
In summary, the people in game who are trading oil for small quantities of rubber (or gifting, which is a lot of it) are doing it because we like helping each other thrive, NOT because its balanced. This isn't "trade", this is "goodwill".
I think it’s a good call but the problem coconut fruit mentions still stands. Trade is still heavily unbalanced to a point that gingers still have no reason to trade oil as it’s value is too high compared to any other commodity.
I agree, this is a bit annoying.
Have you tried putting the engine on first, and if so can you build the well afterwards?
I haven't but that also struck me as a possibility, I figure that will probably stop the transition. I mainly wanted to bring this to Jason's attention so that perhaps some sort of compromise could be made. I would try it but I currently don't have access to an engine on BS2 XD
A family can branch out to other locations by making a second engine to establish an outpost
So following this directive, fully intending in the future to add a diesel engine to a vein so I can use kerosene to obtain iron, I started establishing an outpost. Muddy veins were near, which I checked, so that I'd be able to easily get from the well site to the vein. I brought minimal iron, made shovel on site, and dug my well, only to find the veins become "sunken" and then completely despawn. Was this what you intended Jason? I would think the veins would just change to another state similar to collapsed so that I can still add a diesel engine, but now they're completely gone and the only way I can use a diesel mining operation is to go off the premises.
I figured this was relevant. Just did this moments ago.
Yes, yes, and yes. Glad to see you’re on the ball getting this fixed.
Was just part of the Rohrer family, we had recently upgraded to deep well when i was born. Iron veins directly east (within our range) still claimed they needed a shallow well to be used. The family is doomed because they cannot move due to iron, and cannot access their iron despite having well.
My first life was with a ginger family, we didnt get quite to process the iron we had when we noticed dry springs nearby, so i went to investigate. Found a dug well and camp but completely dead of a diff fam, grabbed shovel and brought back to camp, and dug our well. No matter what we did we were still homesick near this well. The iron sites had opened up but homesickness persisted. Homesickness is definitely bugged. (This was our only well, and i confirmed all online players of our fam were present with hetuw)