a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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seems it been fixed, today the sheep got out,did everything right, seen with my own eyes, big sheep walking trough the filled thrash pit
The trash pit does not stop a sheep from moving through, it only prevents the sheep from stopping on the tile. You must build a wall or fence behind the trash pit in the direction of all possible angles a sheep might try to cross it. Since a sheep can only move in one direction at a time, this can prevent them from leaving, while allowing you to walk through since you can change directions on the trash pit. (The same logic goes for any item on the ground, so try experimenting with sheep and items to get the hang of it.)
I'd be surprised if the behavior was changed, I think it's more likely that you misunderstood the function of the trash pit.
Looks like you named people in alphabetical order for the most part. But I am surprised there is no Bruce Lee!
Thorware wrote:I suicide because.... I'm playing this game to have fun, not to serve random strangers.
MissionStatement wrote:...building something to use in your lifetime, but inevitably realizing that, in the end, what you build is not for YOU, but for your children and all the countless others that will come after you...
I mean ...dude... did you even read the description of the game? Just goes to show that whenever you create something, someone will eventually distort what you have envisioned. This social experiment was worth every penny to experience.
Respectfully, that mission statement does not describe the game as it currently exists. It says "countless others that will come after you," but currently you are lucky if a few more come after you before noobs or griefers ruin the village and starve and your "legacy" is essentially permanently lost to the vast wilderness of the map.
I would have absolutely no problem "serving random strangers" in the sense of making things that many descendants would find useful. That seems a noble, worthwhile, and compelling goal. In fact that used to be all I focused on, back when we kept respawning in the same villages and adding on to them. But the game as it stands does not include the ability to leave a legacy in any meaningful way.
When I say I do not play to "serve random strangers," what I mean is that when I log in to play I have my own ideas and goals about what sort of things I'd like to do in the game. I don't play so that other players can dictate my goals. I don't respawn just to be the designated helper/educator of the first random player I spawn to. I don't play a game to be a slave. Especially when as an experienced player I often know what will help a village far better than the average player. I don't care if you're my mother. There's such a thing as insolent and disobedient children anyway.
wasnt filled trash pit dissapearing after a time? you can use dug out big rocks as well, to block sheep movement
No, the filled trash pits are permanent. If you fill an empty pit with a shovel it will quickly disappear, but if you fill it with trash it never goes away. See https://kazetsukai.github.io/onetech/#6 … -Trash-Pit, there is no entry for the trash pit plus time leading to empty space.
Dug rocks can easily be moved by griefers or noobs and let the sheep out. I'd prefer even a home marker to a dug rock, at least with the home marker someone has to find a sharp rock to get rid of it, not just click on it.
I suicide because I have a project going in a particular village, or I founded the village and am emotionally invested in helping my family line to continue, so I am trying to get back there. I understand that this behavior can ruin the game for someone who desperately needs kids because you restart their baby cooldown timer when you do it. But I am choosing to play another hour because I'm invested in something I started. I really don't want to start over learning a new area and coming up with brand new projects, I would rather just quit than do that. Maybe suiciding is morally wrong, but I'm playing this game to have fun, not to serve random strangers.
Pro tip: Cooked mutton fits in baskets.
Oh cool! I didn't know that. Maybe I should think about cooking mutton more.
I need to give a word of warning about getting stuck as a follow-up to my post. I was playing around with the setup shown in the image and got myself in trouble. When you shear a sheep, the sheep with the wool on him counts as a blocked tile. If you are standing on that tile when it becomes blocked, you can't move down through it. So if this configuration is set up, only shear from the pit, never from on top of the sheep itself! If you shear from the sheep's tile, the tile will become blocked and you will have nowhere to drop your shears, so you can't pick up the wool and will be unable to move out! Luckily I called for help and someone rescued me by picking up the wool and I was able to escape. But I nearly starved to death. So watch out! That's a definite advantage of a larger pen over a more compact design, it's much less likely for you to get stuck inside. It also seems likely that you wouldn't get stuck if the opening was above or to the side. I'd like to test those configurations out.
Killing sheep and getting 4 raw muttons is not very easy to do with the design sadly, but it makes fixing wool very manageable
As I explained, you can make bigger pens if you like, as big as you want, just put a trash pit in the corner. Then offspring are free to roam and there should be no problem with killing sheep and collecting mutton if you like, you can even bring a cart in.
Personally I find mutton too cumbersome since it takes up tons of storage and doesn't fit in containers so I don't bother with it. But wool is cool for making easy and fashionable clothes for everyone. (Dye is required to qualify for coolness!)
Have you ever worked with sheep? You spend a whole lifetime fetching countless straight branches and building a nice fence pen so you can keep the sheep contained (and out of your carrot patches). It has to be fence so you can remove the logs to get in and out. But what's this? The sheep keeps running through the opening right when you remove the log! Stupid sheep! That's fine, you just build an "airlock", a second section of fence enclosing nothing between the sheep's pen and the wide world. You can go through one log at a time and make sure there are no escapees. Problem solved! Happy with your design, you log out for awhile. But later when you log back in and arrive at the same town, you find that some griefer has taken out all of the logs and the sheep are now roaming free or dead! What a nightmare! And how often do you happen upon that same sight? A fence pen that clearly once held sheep, it probably has shears, spindle, and knitting needles nearby, yet the fence is ripped apart and there are no sheep to be seen. Whether it was a griefer or a noob that tore the fence down, they have ruined a fragile high-tech area that took ages to construct.
What if there was a better way?
I present to you: Permanent sheep!
Sheep obey two rules when they move: They only move in straight lines, and they will only move to empty tiles. You can exploit these facts to lock a sheep in place (or restrict them to a certain collection of tiles) with clever wall and object placement.
You can even restrict the sheep in such a way that you can get in and out for shearing, but the sheep can never escape! With this design, you no longer need to be able to remove walls, so you can ditch the fences (which can be easily de-logged or dug up with a shovel). Now you can build adobe walls instead which are practically permanent! And it's way easier to fetch adobe in your backpack or a basket than lugging all those giant branches around. Plus no fussing around with an adze and shovel!
But what about the objects you leave on the ground to prevent the sheep movement? Surely a noob or griefer will come along and pick up the item sooner or later... But there is one object that can never be picked up, and recently it was changed so you can walk over it! That's right, a filled trash pit! And it's permanent! Another problem solved.
Combine these concepts and you can make permanent sheep pens! Now griefers must put in a lot more effort to ruin your sheep station (knife the sheep, wall off the entrance, or tear down an adobe wall with two others). A clueless noob now has no way at all to ruin it!
Here's an example of what it could look like for one sheep on one tile.
Build the structure, lead the domestic lamb there with the rope, unrope him at the desired spot, then feed him his meal, and presto! Infinite wool!
Many other designs are possible, such as including space for many more sheep. (Although there's not much benefit from having more than three or so since fetching the berries and carrot to regrow the wool is the limiting step.) If you want a bigger pen, the most efficient design is to leave out the corner (replaced with a trash pit) and then put a blocker wall outside the corner.
I hope I see more of this style of sheep pen in the future, and less of the horrendous fence rectangles.
I'd argue the 3rd rope is not needed so early. A backpack is a huge resource investment and can be skipped since a simple basket accomplishes most of the same things. Not a single rabbit is needed until you need to craft the forge bellows. I would argue for rush crafting bowls for watering the farm, that's four less milkweed you need to find before you can put your kids to work. Instead of the snare you make adobe for the kiln, needed anyway for crafting and usually easier to find the materials. You can start rabbit tech once the carrots are watered.
Hi,
I caused Apocalypse #3 and #4. I'd like to share my thoughts.
First of all, my motivation was not to grief or ruin anybody's game. I'm sorry if I interrupted something fun that you were doing.
All of the servers had already just been wiped, so I figured that now was the best time to explore the new apocalypse mechanic without being too disruptive. It was also the middle of the night in the USA so it's not a peak time for players.
I wanted to test the limits of just how easy it was to cause this absurd event that erases everything done by everyone.
Once I had the basic idea of what was needed and a monolith located, I joined an empty server and started from scratch. It took me about two and a half Eve lives to build all the tech and trigger apocalypse. (I am very familiar with the entire crafting tree.)
I made plenty of mistakes, so I decided to try again and run it as quickly as I could. The second time still wasn't perfect but went much more smoothly. I managed to trigger apocalypse in my second Eve life. I'd estimate it took about 1:15 total.
Every server has the same map. If you look at coordinates it becomes very predictable where everything is and it is easy to get back to where you were after you die. It's much easier for an experienced player to make progress alone on an empty server than with random players spawning in and messing with your setup, stealing tools, etc.
Triggering apocalypse only has two "hard" parts. The first is crafting the three necessary tools: Adze, Shovel, and Pickaxe. (Adze and shovel are needed for the fence to hitch the horse where you give him his crown.) The second is locating, mining, and fetching the four total gold flake bowls (three for the monolith, one for the crown). Apocalypse should require many more "hard" parts than this.
It's absurd that a lone player working from scratch can destroy the work of every other player in about an hour. I understand that Jason wants this to be a sort of "final boss" mechanic for the player base to work toward when they've exhausted everything else to do. But it currently does not function like that AT ALL. It can be done on a whim by a lone experienced player. It has nothing to do with the community. There is no cooperation involved with the mechanic at all. It's easier to delete everything from all servers than it is to remove an adobe wall, for crying out loud.
Even ignoring the "lone wolf" aspect, the current recipe ignores vast sections of the tech tree. You certainly don't need to craft the entire tree to trigger apocalypse. Here is a list of things that you can completely ignore in the tech tree while triggering apocalypse:
-All clothes (except crown)
-All buildings (walls, floors, doors)
-Sustainable carrot farms (domestic gooseberry, compost)
-Wheat and Pies
-Bow and arrow and all related hunting
-Axe, Chisel, File, Knife, Saw, Froe
-Boxes and Carts
-Mouflon, Sheep, Wool, Shears, Spindle, Dye
-Ridable horses (saddle)
-Wells and Cisterns
For the "end-game" apocalypse crafting concept to be meaningful at all, it ought to require components from ALL of these sections of the tech tree, demonstrating exhaustive knowledge of the game. It should also require coordinated group effort, just like the mechanic for taking down adobe walls. This would likely slow down the apocalypse rate to every few days instead of every few hours.
Although, even that optimistic rate of every few days is ridiculous. Many players are new and learning the game. They must be carefully taught about sustainability and feel the slow and steady progress of gaining mastery of different pieces of the game, being randomly born into a variety of situations. But now they will just be spawning to naked Eves most of the time. Where is the appeal of that? This seems like a mechanic for those who have mastered the game like myself to toy with and feel like gods over all of the noobs. Personally I am not interested in that. I want to be part of a massive effort larger than myself.
And why are all servers wiped by the activities of one server? This seems insane to me. Just wipe the server that managed to tech up, not all of the other servers that are still struggling to establish basic camps.
I don't know what to do now. Should I just keep triggering apocalypse to demonstrate to Jason and the community how easy it is? Should I not bother playing because nothing I make will last? Should I just play as Eve for some quick and meaningless games and and try to teach some noobs the basics of survival in the half of a lifetime they are likely to have before the next apocalypse?
Trusty, you seem to be thinking Yogotronik was the old hag. He was not. I was. He cannot speak for me. He is simply responding to the story as an interested outsider.
For the record, I did not "slaughter the town." I killed exactly one person, my mother. I left everyone else alone, on purpose, except Aname who sparred with me for the rest of my life. A one-for-one exchange seems to me to be a reasonable revenge, not an out-of-control griefing spree against a superior village out of jealousy.
As I understand it, there was infighting after my single attack, and this caused the town to wipe out. I don't know how this played out as I had already run off for awhile.
Goliath, picture this:
You are born to an Eve. She is clearly a very experienced player, dashing from berry bush to berry bush. She raises you expertly and you both barely survive. You scout out a nice spot near some ponds for a farm and you both migrate your belongings there, farming, building baskets and collecting furs. You eventually have a couple of kids, and the four of you are surviving nicely on this farm. You are tending the farm when all of a sudden a suspicious man shows up. He is saying something about a town to the south, how it's low on food and full of murders, and he wants you to come help. You tell him you want no part of his drama, he is welcome to some carrots but to please leave you alone. He leaves, and soon Mother dies of old age. Some time later, a man with a knife (the same one?) shows up and slaughters your son without warning. You, being an experienced player, run around wildly making it near impossible for him to kill you. He eventually just takes a basket of carrots and disappears. You return to tending the farm, but live in constant fear. The man comes back once in awhile to take more carrots, and eventually starts taking Mom's clothes and furs. Soon two of them show up. At least, you know there are two because the man is talking to someone, and you can hear two sets of footsteps and objects are flying around in invisible hands. The second person is glitched out, invisible. The man is saying something about them being raiders, and he's telling her to be careful where she right-clicks so she doesn't accidentally drop the knife and give it to you. You try to run around as usual, but against an invisible opponent you really don't stand a chance and you are stabbed. Your little family worked your whole lives to carve out that small farm in the woods, and this is how it ends. Roving invisible murderers working together and killing you for no reason at all. You would have been happy to share your carrots after all.
You're about to just quit for the day, frustrated. But then you decide it's worth a peek to see if you respawn among this group of bandits. You spawn in a big village. Your mother quickly gives you a full set of clothing, including a backpack with a knife. In fact, everyone has a knife in this village, and nobody seems to be stabbing each other. She tells you that your job is that of a raider, and there is an old man lecturing everyone about the pride of being a raider. Could this be that town to the south? You get raised to independence, and curious, you grab a basket of carrots and head north. Sure enough, only a short hike away you find your old farm and your own fly-buzzing corpse! Those bastards! Surely you would immediately begin plotting revenge? Especially when you return and mention the small farm you found, fishing for information, and your own mother gloats about murdering the "old hag"? The nerve!
Goliath, I'm sorry I ruined your RP with my revenge, but I hope you see things from my perspective. I had no way to know that this was an RP situation where I should not use memories of my past life. I thought it was just random griefers doing their thing. I agree that respawning on the same server in the same area can cause a lot of problems, especially with loyalties, where you are harboring a secret enemy. I think the game ought to put you on a different server each time you are reborn to prevent this sort of thing from happening. It's nice to be able to continue a thriving village once in awhile when you are reborn into it, but I think that kind of works against the spirit of the game, where you are meant to have this one short life and that's it, and never get to really know what came before or what will come after.
In any case, I object to you calling me a "griefer" that you had simply "raided." From my perspective, you were the griefer, and I didn't bother anyone who didn't bother me. Revenge for being murdered is not griefing, as I see it.
I spent the rest of my life trying to kill what turns out to be Aname for his murderous village, but he is too experienced in PVP and never stood still, so we had a stalemate until he died of old age. He ended up just murdering the last boy in the village who was farming (who I had never attacked as he did me no wrong). Pretty low-life. I went to his new camp often, in fact it was my own "old hag" farm in the woods. I could hear his "family" doing stuff there but couldn't see them, they were permanently invisible and glitched out. I had nothing left to live for so I just stripped naked and went to the camp and stood there, saying I can't see anybody, and someone promptly stabbed me with a knife. Seems about right.
Small world, eh?
Yep, I had a very similar experience accidentally killing a loved family member when trying to pass on my knife. All because right-click is used for both dropping and killing. I feel like it should be left click to attack with a weapon. Makes more sense to me. Then you never accidentally kill when trying to drop the weapon.
I once even killed a person I couldn't see because they were invisible due to desync, I was just trying to drop the weapon.
Then again, if it's left-click, you will end up accidentally killing people when you're just trying to walk around. Maybe that's worse?
Pressing a special key to attack would fix the accidents, but add weird confusion to a purposely minimal interface.
Perhaps murder should require confirmation. Right-click once and you raise the knife/aim the bow. Right-click the same target again and it is killed. Right-click elsewhere or left-click and the weapon is lowered. I like this solution best.
I wonder what the relationship is between bears and caves, and how exactly bears spawn.
Sometimes there is a bear cave right next to a village, but bears never seem to come.
Other times there seem to be no bear caves nearby, yet bears attack constantly.
One survival tip about bears that most people do not seem to know.
As long as you never stop on an empty tile, a bear can never kill you.
Stand on an item, a farm, a bush, or anything, and the bear will never kill you. He will run back and forth across you but not harm you.
This makes it much easier to survive bear attacks as well as to safely hunt them with a bow.
I'm curious, does anyone else enjoy starting from scratch (for the challenge of seeing how far you can get through self-sufficiency) while also feeling slightly guilty for playing this clearly cooperative-oriented game in solo mode?
I do this once in awhile for fun and don't feel guilty in the slightest. You are not harming anyone, you are only stunting your own effectiveness by not leveraging the resources already built by other players or the power of cooperation. You can run off in any direction at any time and reinvent the wheel. Maybe the far-flung seeds you plant will become a more promising development than the resource-starved and noob-ruined common areas anyway.
In fact, the game seems meant to support exactly this. It's much easier for a lone person to get effective work done than to coordinate since there is a single goal, single plan, and no miscommunication. It's also easier for a lone person to establish a village/farm from scratch, especially with a limited berry supply. Try playing as Eve in the wilderness once while raising several kids, and again letting every kid die, and see which ends up more long-term productive for the area.
Maybe the food meter did drop slower if you hold the baby tight, therefore, I would appreciate if you can provide some coding information/calculation first.
The math I know back in two weeks ago (because we know Jason would keep changing the game mechanic) is that pick and drop gives baby 4 food while consuming mother's one food; with the addition of the fire, you are much better off having that kid stay near fire instead. In otherwords, if you hold the baby tight, you are making 1 to 1 exchange which is obvious not as ideal as 1 to 4 exchange.
Oh really? I had no idea it worked like this! I always just thought it was free to hold the baby. Thanks for the tip. You're right, I suppose it does feel like your hunger drains pretty fast when you are holding the baby.
The Three Laws are outdated. Milkweed is now very renewable with easy compost, and drying ponds isn't really a problem (it's not permanent damage), unless it has a goose. Family animals is still important though. I'd add don't chop down maple trees, and yeah carrots is important, but not super important.
Completely agreed.
Ponds are easy to restore, even if it means traveling to the next biome to reseed the water. Geese are not critical, and die permanently when they get used anyway. You only need one to make one file, and that is enough to service a village practically forever, files don't get lost too easily.
Milkweed is harder to restore as you must potentially travel a great distance to find more, but milkweed damage is completely reversible. As more players gain experience, milkweed patches are becoming more common and easier to find. Not to mention that the huge milkweed patches required by large villages are big enough to easily survive a few noobs picking incorrectly. Only a determined griefer can do major damage, but he's working to upset sustainability anyway, and there's nothing he can do to clear any stumps that have already been picked.
Rabbit hole preservation is the most important thing to teach noobs as they are so easy to permanently destroy if you happen upon snares lying near non-family holes. Every time this mistake is made, permanent damage is done. A noob trying to clothe himself could wipe out an entire field. Eventually no rabbits will be left, permanently crippling nearby villages. Goodbye backpacks, no additional water skins, and the village will have to rely on reed skirts and wool (for at least shoes, if not hats and coats if no wolves or seals are nearby), both less warming than rabbit fur, or else transport furs over great distances. And sheep are extremely high tech compared to furs, needing shears off the top of the blacksmith tech tree. Clothes have to constantly be remade after being lost from dying on farms and bones, whether through ignorance or accident, so sustainability is very important. Pies are crippled too, without the skinned rabbits.
Chopping down useful trees is another permanent no-no, and so easy to do for a noob when axes are lying around. If it makes kindling or tinder, leave it standing! If you don't know the difference between trees, don't chop down any at all! This is nearly as important as rabbit holes as if enough damage is done a village can find itself in a situation where it is practically impossible to start a fire (tinder and leaves have two minute despawn timers), ending pies and all crafting, dooming a village to eternal carrot farming.
Wells are easy for noobs to drain and ruin for ten hours, but wells aren't terribly useful anyway even if handled by an expert. I believe wells are a waste of space and resources and shouldn't even be built in the first place. I would rather have the stones.
Digging wild carrots is permanent destruction, luckily carrot farms are common and domestic seeds are stronger and sustainable, so while it's nice to have wild carrots nearby for supplemental seeds, losing them to noobs isn't terrible.
In my opinion, the easiest and most common way for a noob to ruin your production cycle is by picking a berry from the domestic gooseberry patch to feed himself when he is young, or is getting hungry at any time. This ruins one bush and therefore one compost for an hour plus the required time for someone experienced to notice and go through an irritating correction process picking the bush and re-watering. This problem is made much worse because new players often spawn as eves in the wilderness and learn to survive by picking berries, and domestic berries look exactly like the wild berries they are used to living off of in the wilderness, so they will have literally no clue that they are doing anything wrong or that the berries behave completely differently and won't grow back automatically. While this problem is not permanent damage, it is common and confusing and disruptive enough that I believe it needs to be promoted above the milkweed rule as a law.
So if I were writing three laws for noobs today it would be these:
1. Trap only family rabbits
2. Do not chop any trees (or only chop trees that do not produce any item when clicked)
3. Do not pick domestic gooseberries
Defending your village against griefers is just as important as defending against bears. Make sure several people have knives in their backpacks, or there are loaded bows maintained in two or three locations if you are low tech. This way you should be defensible, since as soon as he kills one, another can kill him while he is debuffed. Of course, this might descend into chaos with constant retaliations where nobody is sure who the real griefer is, but it's better than everyone getting slaughtered defenselessly.
In any case, getting killed by a griefer sucks but meh, not really. Others will come along and pick up your village right where you left it off, and meanwhile you can hop right into another life. Your life is short and limited anyway, whether it's ended in an hour by old age, ten minutes by a bear, twenty minutes by famine, or thirty minutes by a griefer. Just think of it as another danger in this short and uncertain life.
I always greet my children with "Arrogant turd child!" Whenever they try to say anything longer than F, o-l-d, or w-a-s-h-e-r-e.
A kids food won't go down if you are holding and can breastfeed, and only costs one food to do. So if you have the clothes and the villages is being managed, there isn't a reason you shouldn't show key locations and say general rules; don't pick this, don't cut this down, seeding, leave alone,don't drain ect. And then just plop them by the group fire if there is a feeder there.
Exactly. Holding your kid is much more efficient than dropping them off at the fire constantly since they will never lose hunger and it's free for you. As this is the case, showing them around and giving them tips or rules is the best way to be a mother. The only thing that throws this off is if you have a second kid while the first one is not yet independent.
Getting killed seems like a reasonable consequence for your mistake. Remember that in this game death is not such a terrible thing, since we will all die after one hour anyway. Maybe you were looking forward to the second half hour in that particular village, but oh well, just start a new life.
I tend to preemptively kill anyone who shows signs of being a griefer, such as stalking around, holding/packing weapons, and not contributing.
I want one for "Show me around" because when I'm a baby I like to start planning how to help the village by looking at what's already in the village. I can't do that if you just stand by the fire for five minutes.
It sucks that when you are first born you only get one letter, and then only two letters, limiting many acronyms to when you are already half way to independence.
A berry bush consumes one soil. Sustainable soil comes from compost, which consumes six berries, one carrot, one water, and one reed for three soil. Add the berry to seed, and you are paying 3 berries, 1/3 carrot, 1 1/3 water, and 1/3 reed for six berries. That's only a three berry profit, or 18 food, even ignoring the other costs.
Compare carrot patches. It costs one water and one seed for five carrots, providing 40 food. Carrots are vastly more efficient.
You probably have useCustomServer.ini set. Setting a custom server prevents you from getting updates. A typical bug of using an old client is that objects weirdly look like different objects. Set useCustomServer.ini to 0 and launch again to get the client update, that should fix it. Then you can go back to your custom server.
food is a transitory benefit. Clothes are a lasting legacy.
Unfortunately, clothes are also a transitory benefit.
As careful as you and I might be to lay out our clothes properly before we die, eventually our painstakingly crafted clothes will get in the hands of a noob who will forget to feed himself while farming and die suddenly while standing on a farm tile. Or perhaps he's unaware that you should not die while standing on a pile of bones. In either case, and perhaps other blocked tiles I am not aware of, you will simply despawn along with all of your clothes and equipment. Goodbye hard work.
While at first I thought like you, that clothes are a permanent way to invest in the future, the reality is quite the opposite. It's common to spawn into a village with five sets of clothes, only to watch famine wipe out your less experienced family members, ultimately leaving only two sets of clothes behind. These days I view planting ideal village locations as a better future investment than crafting clothes. Other good investments are crafting tools, baskets, and carts, as those tend to stick around.
As for building your village near plains... while certainly nice, it's not a necessity like grassland for fire and kindling. Rabbits are much easier to murder en masse and transport back home in batches. Plus a constant supply of them is not needed, just enough to get clothes and backpacks up for everyone.