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(Gameplay tests would give the most accurate results, with enough data samples.)
Here’s my current best attempt at labor quantification:
It’s centered around the time spent carrying items between locations, though in real villages the distribution of locations varies. Also, I haven’t yet factored in crafting time (once all ingredients have been brought together) — total # of clicks / clicksPerSecond is probably a good start.
Notes:
Walk speed = 3.75 tiles per second (via Jason’s post)
Horses double the walking speed (see OneTech)
Carts/ baskets reduce the number of trips needed by their holding capacity
RENEWABLE NATURAL RESOURCES have the simplest cost: once found, how long does it take to walk there/back? (Their scarcity based on their respawn rate changes value, not cost)
NON-RENEWABLE NATURAL RESOURCES have a growing cost: the ideal case is that we grab the nearest resource at all times, but in reality, there’s a cost of exploring to find the resource, and also those resources are clustered
For the case of iron,
IRON COST: ~3 minutes per iron?
viewTiles = [5~15]
Chance for badlands biome = 1/7
Chance the tile has an object ~= 8.37 (based on Jason, and overworld pictures)
Chance the object is iron = 1.43% (auto-calculated on OneTech)
If you walk in a straight line in uncharted territory,
Mindless walk time per iron = 7*8.37*(1/.0143) / (~10 viewTiles * 3.75 tile per second) = ~2 minutes per iron + the walk through the pre-searched territory
Ideal WalkTime to ground iron = sqrt([radius from settlement to first badland’s iron*2]^2 + [ground iron gathered/(.0143/7/8.37)]) / 2 / 3.75
Ideally, the first 15 ground iron may be found in a 30~60 second walk.
The 50th ground iron would be ~60 second walk.
The 200th ground iron would be ~120 second walk.
I’d say the reality falls somewhere between mindless and ideal, but who really knows.
Another limitation of this kind of analysis is that iron is clustered, and veins expedite things.
Surface iron represents 1/3 of the total iron in a given area.
SOIL COST (+~15 pie food): ~12 seconds?
One pie-compost cycle involves moving between stations ~43 times if cartless. If each station is about 5s away, that’s 3.5 minutes of walking for each pie-compost cycle (16.75 soil profit, plus 4 mutton pies and 1 sheepskin).
So each soil would cost ~12 seconds of labor
Note: the labor cost of the ~.00175 iron is less than a second
WATER COST: ~1.5 seconds?
Every 20 buckets of water from a Newcomen pump involves moving between stations ~6 times. If each station is about 5s away, that’s 30 seconds for 20 water.
Each water would cost ~1.5 seconds, plus a tiny amount of iron for the kindling.
If you’ve looked this far, maybe also see my resources per food statements.
Bread vs Popcorn?
Stew vs Mango?
My current estimates would place soil as the main factor, so popcorn and stew.
Kerosen Upgrade?
It's a very rough guess, but I'm not convinced it saves labor overall, even for a full week town.
Backpacks, carts, horses?
I'm pretty sure those can all be proved worth their crafting time.
any ideas at any time appreciated
(My best {non-useful} attempt at an answer is in the following post)
Why the question:
Essentially everything in the game can be ascribed a labor cost***. The common metric of labor would allow comparisons between, say, the cost of iron vs soil. Or help decide if upgrading a well will improve the quality of life for your village overall. All this to improve decision-making in order to save effort.
I’m defining labor as: the subjectively boring parts of the game. (i.e. repetitive crafting, carrying, etc.)
Personally, my primary goal is to define the relative cost of food options because I like feeding masses, but don’t like the work.
***When thinking about what each object in the game took to make, it always boils down to the labor costs of gathering specific natural resources plus the labor cost of crafting them together.
For example,
water costs: crafting labor + gathering wood + an axe chop for the kindling.
That axe chop in turn costs: crafting labor + gathering wood + gathering iron
So water essentially costs: crafting labor + gathering wood&iron
DISCLAIMERS:
Because labor is subjective, so is cost; If a bunch of people have fun making carrot pie, let them eat pie!
Also, value is not dictated by cost nor by utility; If the smith is down to just steel scraps, the next shipment of iron is much more precious than if there was already an iron pile by the forge. And if someone’s life goal is to build a room, they’ll place value in big stones and couldn’t care less about milkweed.
Cost =/= Value
Profit ~= Value - Cost
Not to take away from the fun of doing it yourself, but
Tutorial Escape Speedrun in 8:17 ~ https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3373
I got your results, Booklat1. Assuming there's always a source for the fire brand.
Neat, thanks for adding to the food discussion!
I'd attempted going through the math before, and got mostly the same results.
See Food per Iron edit: now includes current food production spreadsheet
I'm never certain of my results until they're peer-reviewed; let's discuss the differences we got:
I calculate carrots with their seeds by looking at 7 plots where one plot always goes to seed (in practice, seeds get wasted sometimes, but that's not a story for these numbers to tell):
8 soil + 7 water + 7 till = 7 food per carrot * 5 carrots per plot * 6 carrot plots + [0 carrots from the seed plot]
I also got slightly different results for kraut (45) and stew (91.4 food per soil, including hardened rows)
growing 3 cabbage takes 4 plots:
4 soil + 4 water + 4 till = [4 seeds] + 3 cabbage --> 180 kraut food
stew takes 6 beans, 1 corn, and a squash + a water bowl.
1 soil + 1 water + 1 till = 4 corn
6 soil + 6 water + 6 till = 5 bowls of 6 beans each
1 soil + 1 water + 1 till = 1 squash
2.45 soil + 3.45 water + 2.45 till + axe = 1 stew --> 224 food
my results:
food. per soil. per water
Berry 35.000 35.000
Mango 48.000 14.400
D. Corn 20.000 20.000
Popcorn 48.000 48.000
D. Omelette 76.000 76.000
D. Goose 80.000 80.000
Wh. Milk. 560.000 560.000
Stew 91.429 64.928
Krout 45.000 45.000
Carrot 26.250 30.000
Green beans 20.000 20.000
Potato 24.000 48.000
Mutton 42.712 44.017
carrot pie 36.522 38.182
berry carrot pie48.046 49.363
Berry Pie 35.368 35.368
Bread or dough 32.000 32.000
Mutton Pie 76.829 77.658
bean burritos 27.143 21.923For the past data of population by server over time, see Thundersen's graphs .
Jason had been playing around with server loads that day [as seen in work logs he gives].
how did you run these results, betame? did you consider every bite of those foods was also gonna have yum bonuses?
appended my previous post
Wanted to dump some minor max-efficiency thoughts that apply to the wilds /early game. (I'm certain others have thought of these too)
Also, I agree with CE about keeping kids
Spread:
The bushes near camp are for the starting journeys of children. Adults should return to camp with a backup food from unfrequented lands or at least be full.
The first berry is free - it allows a berry to start regrowing
The last berry can kill - it’s there for emergencies.
Don’t Unspread:
Keep lone plants available.
Eat from food cluster locations rather than lone plants.
A group of cacti or bushes will rarely be depleted (and you’ll have more warning time if their supply is drying up). Leave lone bushes for local gathering
Likewise it’s better to nab a burdock or carrot where there’s already a lot of them, leaving lone burdocks for local emergencies.
//always take food with you
always remember where the last food you saw was
If you use up your travel food, return to the last food. Don’t risk trying to find food further along your path
//Pick any renewables you see (except berries). Essentially, pile cactus fruits and eggs around their source to be gathered later
//wild animals might snipe you in any biome. Listen for their foot steps (beyond your vision). Travel in diagonals to improve your vision range; if you’re going due south, alternate between se then sw. As soon as an animal enters the screen, move away from it until it also moves away. Potential mothers should take less risks with their life; delegate badlands tasks to males.
//Each person needs about the space of one medium grassland or desert to live off the land. (25 bushes or 13 cacti, less if temperature is managed)
//once a badland is void of iron, leave a large x in white stones, stacking two flat rocks in the middle to prove it’s man-made. (Maybe also when a green biome is void of milkweed)
I still don't understand why all this effort around low vs high pip foods.
Popcorn at 15x YUM > Anything at no YUM
Every food is viable and should be made for YUM.
Eat a slice of rabbit berry pie at 14 YUM and two pips left and tell me it's not the greatest thing ever. Probably go the rest of your life without eating.
True, ran the numbers:
In terms of soil+water+till cost per pip,
milk >> mutton pie, stew > bread, popcorn, berry, berry in bowl, other pies, > carrot, raw corn, green beans,
My low-effort yum chain without leaving town usually ends at 5. Is it still worth it?
Yumming: berry, Berry in bowl, mutton pie, stew, Bread, popcorn = 0.0205288461538462 total resources per pip
NoYum: mutton pies = 0.031031746031746 total resources per pip
NoYum: whole milk = 0.00535714285714286 total resources per pip
Adding any more foods, only strengthens the yum-chain's advantage, though even 20 Yum can't beat milk.
Though if you deliberately Yummed off of the worst foods, excluding the potato, you'd have to achieve a yum of ~15 to start competing with pies.
- - -
If anyone wants the mess that gave my results (also see my previous spreadsheet dump post here):
Basically, I got total soil+water+till cost per bite / food per bite,
for yum, I took the total cost of a list of different food bites, then added the total yum bonus from that entire chain.
combo # total yum bonus Food: food in the bite soil cost water cost Tilling cost sum cost per food combo # total yum bonus Food: food in the bite soil cost water cost Tilling cost sum cost per food combo # total yum bonus Food: food in the bite soil cost water cost Tilling cost sum cost per food
0 0 Onion 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 berry 5 0.142857142857143 0.142857142857143 0 0.0571428571428572 0 0 berry 5 0.142857142857143 0.142857142857143 0 0.0571428571428572
1 1 Burdock 9 0 0 0 0 1 1 wh. Milk 14 0.025 0.025 0.025 0.00535714285714286 1 1 Berry in bowl 5 0.142857142857143 0.142857142857143 0 0.0571428571428572
2 3 wild carrot 7 0 0 0 0 2 3 Berry in bowl 5 0.142857142857143 0.142857142857143 0 0.0571428571428572 2 3 mutton pie 15 0.195238095238095 0.193154761904762 0.0770833333333331 0.031031746031746
3 6 Banana 9 0 0 0 0 3 6 Mango 9 0.1875 0.625 0 0.0902777777777778 3 6 stew 14 0.153125 0.215625 0.153125 0.0372767857142857
4 10 Cactus fruit 10 0 0 0 0 4 10 mutton pie 15 0.195238095238095 0.193154761904762 0.0770833333333331 0.031031746031746 4 10 Bread 8 0.25 0.25 0.125 0.078125
5 15 berry 5 0 0 0 0 5 15 stew 14 0.153125 0.215625 0.153125 0.0372767857142857 5 15 popcorn 3 0.0625 0.0625 0.0625 0.0625
6 21 Omelette 19 0 0 0 0 6 21 Bread 8 0.25 0.25 0.125 0.078125 6 21
7 28 Turkey 19 0 0 0 0 7 28 popcorn 3 0.0625 0.0625 0.0625 0.0625 7 28
8 36 wh. Milk 14 0.025 0.025 0.025 0.00535714285714286 8 36 carrot 7 0.266666666666667 0.233333333333333 0.233333333333333 0.104761904761905 8 36
9 45 mutton pie 15 0.195238095238095 0.193154761904762 0.0770833333333331 0.031031746031746 9 45 Corn 5 0.25 0.25 0.25 0.15 9 45
10 55 Mango 9 0.1875 0.625 0 0.0902777777777778 10 55 green bean 4 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.15 10 55
11 66 Carrot-rabbit pie 18 0.191666666666667 0.183333333333333 0.120833333333333 0.0275462962962963 11 66 11 66
12 78 berry-rabbit pie 18 0.339285714285714 0.339285714285714 0.0625 0.0411706349206349 12 78 12 78
13 91 Berry in bowl 5 0.142857142857143 0.142857142857143 0 0.0571428571428572 13 91 13 91
14 105 stew 14 0.153125 0.215625 0.153125 0.0372767857142857 14 105 14 105
15 120 Bread 8 0.25 0.25 0.125 0.078125 15 120 15 120
16 121 popcorn 3 0.0625 0.0625 0.0625 0.0625 16 121 16 121
17 138 carrot 7 0.266666666666667 0.233333333333333 0.233333333333333 0.104761904761905 17 138 17 138
18 156 Corn 5 0.25 0.25 0.25 0.15 18 156 18 156
19 175 green bean 4 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.15 19 175 19 175
total food+bonus: total food+bonus: total food+bonus:
379 1.128125 1.628125 0.878125 0.00958937994722955 144 1.128125 1.628125 0.815625 0.0248046875 65 0.465625 0.528125 0.340625 0.0205288461538462
wild foods then mutton pies: Repeating at #2: only mutton pies:
383 3.14880952380952 3.11547619047619 1.25833333333333 0.0196413029963944 142 3.45357142857143 3.45357142857143 0.025 0.048817907444668 60 0.78095238095238 0.772619047619048 0.308333333333332 0.031031746031746
only whole milk:
378 0.675 0.675 0.675 0.00535714285714286
combo # total yum bonus
soil cost per bite water cost per bite tilling cost per bite sum cost per pip Pips per bite total bites per resources Number of bites per food item #food items from resources Soil water till Axe Shovel 0 0 Green bean bowl 4 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.15
0.142857142857143 0.142857142857143 0 0.0571428571428571 Berry 5 7 1 7 1 1 1 1 D. Corn 5 0.25 0.25 0.25 0.15
0.1875 0.625 0 0.0902777777777778 Mango 9 16 2 8 3 10 2 3 Carrot 7 0.266666666666667 0.233333333333333 0.233333333333333 0.104761904761905
0.25 0.25 0.25 0.15 D. Corn 5 4 1 4 1 1 1 3 6 bean burrito stack 19 0.7 0.866666666666667 0.45 0.106140350877193
0.0625 0.0625 0.0625 0.0625 Popcorn 3 16 4 4 1 1 1 4 10 Mango 9 0.1875 0.625 0 0.0902777777777778
0.25 0.25 0.25 0.0394736842105263 D. Omelette 19 4 1 4 1 1 1 5 15 Bread or dough 8 0.25 0.25 0.125 0.078125
0.125 0.125 0.125 0.0375 D. Goose 10 8 2 4 1 1 1 6 21 carrot pie 7 0.191666666666667 0.183333333333333 0.120833333333333 0.0708333333333333
0.025 0.025 0.025 0.00535714285714286 Wh. Milk 14 40 10 4 1 1 1 7 28 Krout 6 0.133333333333333 0.133333333333333 0.133333333333333 0.0666666666666667
0.153125 0.215625 0.153125 0.0423788265306122 Stew 14 16 16 1 2.45 3.45 2.45 1 8 36 Popcorn 3 0.0625 0.0625 0.0625 0.0625
0.133333333333333 0.133333333333333 0.133333333333333 0.0666666666666667 Krout 6 30 10 3 4 4 4 9 45 Berry Pie 12 0.339285714285714 0.339285714285714 0.0625 0.0617559523809524
0.266666666666667 0.233333333333333 0.233333333333333 0.104761904761905 Carrot 7 30 1 30 8 7 7 10 55 Berry 5 0.142857142857143 0.142857142857143 0 0.0571428571428571
0.2 0.2 0.2 0.15 Green bean bowl 4 30 6 5 6 6 6 11 66 Mutton 12 0.28095238095238 0.272619047619047 0.0583333333333333 0.0509920634920634
0.25 0.125 0.125 0.291666666666667 Potato 6 8 2 4 2 1 1 10 12 78 berry carrot pie 15 0.312202380952381 0.303869047619047 0.120833333333333 0.0491269841269841
0.28095238095238 0.272619047619047 0.0583333333333333 0.0509920634920634 Mutton 12 4 1 4 1.12380952380952 1.09047619047619 0.233333333333333 13 91 Stew 14 0.153125 0.215625 0.153125 0.0423788265306122
14 105 D. Omelette 19 0.25 0.25 0.25 0.0394736842105263
0.191666666666667 0.183333333333333 0.120833333333333 0.0708333333333333 carrot pie 7 16 4 4 3.06666666666667 2.93333333333333 1.93333333333333 15 120 D. Goose 10 0.125 0.125 0.125 0.0375
0.312202380952381 0.303869047619047 0.120833333333333 0.0491269841269841 berry carrot pie 15 16 4 4 4.9952380952381 4.86190476190476 1.93333333333333 16 121 Mutton Pie 15 0.195238095238095 0.193154761904762 0.0770833333333331 0.031031746031746
0.339285714285714 0.339285714285714 0.0625 0.0617559523809524 Berry Pie 12 16 4 4 5.42857142857143 5.42857142857143 1 17 138 Wh. Milk 14 0.025 0.025 0.025 0.00535714285714286
0.25 0.25 0.125 0.078125 Bread or dough 8 8 8 1 2 2 1 18 156
0.195238095238095 0.193154761904762 0.0770833333333331 0.031031746031746 Mutton Pie 15 16 4 4 3.12380952380952 3.09047619047619 1.23333333333333 19 175
0.7 0.866666666666667 0.45 0.106140350877193 bean burrito stack 19 6 6 1 4.2 5.2 2.7 total food+bonus, stopping at #10:
140 2.48407738095238 2.003125 1.703125 0.0442166241496599Nice. Might've made it better now.
What i get from pip efficiency is that it's supposed to be how likely it is that food is wasted by each bite, which we can use a function of waste based on the formula to find out: Fwaste(pips left) = -character maximum food + pips left + pip per bite. If we add all the values of fwaste and divide by character maximum food -1 we get an average of waste for all values. Or could go the other way around and find the value of food filled per bite which is pip per bite - waste, which really would make for a better account of efficiency. As long as we turn the formula into a function like Fpipusage(pips filled) = pips per bite - ( -max character food + pips filled + pips per bite), add all results and divide by max food -1 we get an average pip usage. Divide that by food per pip and we should get pip efficiency, right?
If I'm understanding your approach right, you're taking the average of how many pips are actually filled by the food weighted equally across all scenarios of how many pips you started with when you ate it.
You'd get the % of potential pips that are actually consumed
assuming people eat the food at a random hunger, and that they're taking one bite rather than filling up to 20 with the food.
I think the pip efficiency, as I like to think of it, is more of a social problem of people needing to know when to eat which food.
Mutton pies could have a pip efficiency of 4/60 to 60/60 depending on how smart the player base is. But if I'm understanding your above approach, you'd rate it at 37.89/60
Do you have a better way of defining waste mathematically betame? I used the positive distance from the maximum of 20 after accounting current pips + pip per bite, but i'm not really satisfied with it as it seems a bit clunky to me.
Nope, you've got the ideal formula. In your OP.
betame wrote:Food wasted when overeating = Number of bites x (pips per bite - (- maximum food + average number of pips when eating + Number of pips) ~source
that's actually the average food absorved, the waste can be calculated by subtracting the average absorved from the maximum pips per food, as you may imagine.
Do you have a better way of defining waste mathematically betame? I used the positive distance from the maximum of 20 after accounting current pips + pip per bite, but i'm not really satisfied with it as it seems a bit clunky to me. You seem pretty good at math.
I'll think and respond on ur thread.
I think pip-efficiency, as Crumpaloo conceptualizes it here, is completely different. I leave it to him to define it with math here.
I think people are getting confused because the Original Post doesn't make it super clear that costs are not factored in when you're ranking the foods.
A break from the arguing, I'd love a response.
We're both interested in ranking foods based on their many factors. And you consider pip efficiency to be a very important one. You rightly keep it independent of all other factors so it boils down to simply how many pips the food gives per bite.
I think it'd help everyone understand your pip efficiency metric if you listed each pip value 20-3 and assigned a pip efficiency (which you defined as the average amount of the food that people waste by overeating) to each one. Maybe a bonus list for your combo food station ideas.
EDIT: adjusted formula from absorption to waste
Food wasted per bite when overeating = (- maximum food + average number of pips when eating + pips per bite) ~source
If this equation isn't it, could you give some numbers as to how pip efficient certain foods are? It'd help illustrate to us all what you truly mean by pip efficiency.
Pip efficiency is just defined as the less pips in one use of a food the less likely the pips from that food will be wasted, so when i say a food is more pip efficient, that means that its less wasteful.
I think some meaning got lost in communication because the word 'wasteful' carries a lot of definitions. -resource drain vs reducing their potential value.
I don't think you consider mutton pies a bad choice: (and you've yet to rank them in the OP)
are they pip in-efficient and therefore their potential value is reduced? yes. - the point of the post
are they a drain on resources? no.
Just like popcorn vs milk:
is popcorn more pip-efficient? yes, so it's ranked higher in the OP.
is milk more resource-efficient? yes, but its not the point of this thread.
For those interested, I'd made a spreadsheet regarding scalable foods' cost-benefit. I like the idea of factoring in overeating, and Booklat1 has provided an equation for just that! Resource costs can be teased out, but I'm having trouble assigning labor costs to those resources - and I believe labor is the true cost since all resources are essentially as infinite as the map.
You might have also seen my food per iron and food per soil post.
see food per iron for current spreadsheet
The mess of numbers below should get formatted correctly when you copy it into a spreadsheet.
iron per 0.00176721277034092 0.0000279173646007817 0.0100009853187506 0.0050251256281407 0.00739613560761554 0.00251256281407035
Food (per crop) food per bite bites per crop #crop Soil Water (deisel) Till Axe Shovel Smith Straw Dung Skin pie (soil byproduct ) Skin (soil byproduct)
Berry 5 5 1 7 1 1 0.238772029562251 0.0596930073905628
Mango 18 9 2 8 3 10 0.716316088686754 0.179079022171688
D. Corn 5 5 1 4 1 1 1 0.238772029562251 0.0596930073905628
Popcorn 12 3 4 4 1 1 1 0.238772029562251 0.0596930073905628
D. Omelette 19 19 1 4 1 1 1 0.238772029562251 0.0596930073905628
D. Goose 20 10 2 4 1 1 1 0.238772029562251 0.0596930073905628
Wh. Milk 140 14 10 4 1 1 1 0.238772029562251 0.0596930073905628
Stew 224 14 16 1 2.45 3.45 2.45 1 0.584991472427516 0.146247868106879
Krout 60 6 10 3 4 4 4 0.955088118249005 0.238772029562251
Carrot 7 7 1 30 8 7 7 1.91017623649801 0.477544059124503
Green bean bowl 24 4 6 5 6 6 6 1.43263217737351 0.358158044343377
Potato 12 6 2 4 2 1 1 10 0.477544059124503 0.119386014781126
Mutton 12 12 1 4 1.12380952380952 1.09047619047619 0.233333333333333 1 1 0.268334280841387 0.0670835702103468
carrot pie 28 7 4 4 3.06666666666667 2.93333333333333 1.93333333333333 1 0.732234223990904 0.183058555997726
berry carrot pie 60 15 4 4 4.9952380952381 4.86190476190476 1.93333333333333 1 1.19272313814667 0.298180784536669
Berry Pie 48 12 4 4 5.42857142857143 5.42857142857143 1 1 1.29619101762365 0.324047754405912
Bread or dough 64 8 8 1 2 2 1 1 0.477544059124503 0.119386014781126
Mutton Pie 60 15 4 4 3.12380952380952 3.09047619047619 1.23333333333333 1 1 1 0.74587833996589 0.186469584991472
bean burrito stack 114 19 6 1 4.2 5.2 2.7 1 1.00284252416146 0.250710631040364Maybe this will help or inspire someone.
But I wanna reemphasize: labor is the main cost of food, and depends on what is locally available. Long-term resource costs are irrelevant because lineages never live that long.
We're both interested in ranking foods based on their many factors. And you consider pip efficiency to be a very important one. You rightly keep it independent of all other factors so it boils down to simply how many pips the food gives per bite.
I think it'd help everyone understand your pip efficiency metric if you listed each pip value 20-3 and assigned a pip efficiency (which you defined as the average amount of the food that people waste by overeating) to each one. Maybe a bonus list for your combo food station ideas.
Adding to the mutton pie vs bread+mutton debate:
whenever you have 1 wheat and 4 mutton
you could create 16 bites of 15 food, or 8+4 bites of 8 & 12 food.
Because pies also have more bites,
there is no case where someone going to get food will waste more than the excess provided;
Someone timing their 12 bites to perfectly use the mutton and bread could have grabbed 12 bites from mutton pie and wasted those pips, but they'd still have a whole extra pie left over.
(there are still rare circumstances for bread+mutton when plates are too limited, or food needs to be quickly consumed to free tiles, or a food-secure village needs to outcompete for yum-births)
https://onetech.info/290-Iron-Ore
what is the next stap with Iron Ore?
To follow an object's crafting path step by step, you'll need to click on the result of the 'how to use' section.
For example in this case (which is trickier than others to follow),
click 'iron ore in tongs',
then on the 'iron ore in tongs' page, click 'show more ways' under 'how to use' and click 'hot iron bloom in wooden tongs'
you can follow things forward or backward in their crafting web this way.
Thundersen's graphs show that something's not working as intended. The addition of server 5 on Jan 12 19:00 with total pop of 225 shouldn't have happened. Server 4's been added & removed at a couple of strange times too.
The intended behavior, as I undertsand:
ServerCount, addServerIfAbove#, removeServerIfBelow#
1, 60, -
2, 140, 28
3, 220, 44
4, 300, 60
5, 380, 76Two minor things:
1) For objects with stacking #use sprites (e.g. ax, well), a link to all #use images could help with counting in-game uses. Especially knowing when the last use might be.
2) Individual links to all version histories could be nice (since OneTech is way better than the homepage's 'Update Log'). This could be in the form of a list, or searchable by update name or #, or attached to each object to see all the times it was updated. I sometimes look at the historical balancing of items to get an understanding of changing meta, and veteran confusion/myths.
Thanks for your efforts on this and for asking the community.
Do kilns and ovens count as heat sources?
Nope.
They do not produce any heat nor do they insulate like walls. --according to their object files, which is also neatly presented on OneTech.
So kilns/ ovens should be built in desert edges/ jungles. Preferably have the fire in a cool spot.
You can use a skewer from a sapling as a hoe. This is a great early eve camp shortcut that not enough people are aware of. It can also save your butt when rebuilding an old town, but in that case, you may also want to bring back cuttings from the sapling to plant.
Also, you can make sapling cuttings to plant with just a piece of flint. Much easier and lower tech than other trees.
Wild saplings are rarely used up before wild milkweed, so they're definitely the best early tiller if available.
However, domestic grown saplings produce weak skewers which break after one till, so there's no net tilling gain. Weak skewers are still fine for roasting, mixing, and letter stock, though.
Added heatmaps for rooms. Bigger rooms have barely any wall-fire interaction, and smaller rooms seem impractical. Thoughts? Are there any scenarios/ theories/ data representation additions that would help y'all?
Overall, though, if you're trying to build a warm room, you're best off choosing a jungle location and not stressing about insulating architecture.
1. I imagine its best to dig your whole quarry of big rocks, then bring the shovel/broken tool back just once
3. I normally just build pens, but placing the cut stones in their final spot (excluding the first wall) works out because I can swap the stakes for them as I go.
4. Absolutely build your floors first; they help fully insulate walls, and are the fastest way to give you/your descendants an idea of the size/placement of the room. Depending on aesthetics, you may want to place floors on and outside the doorway, or none at all. Note to fully insulate the walls, you'll need to hide floors behind horizontal walls, and let floors stick out of vertical walls. After walls, its best to place two doors to limit griefing, each near opposite corners.
5. Never knowing when I might get tree-snaked, I place as much of the ^floor^ plans as possible so my descendants can understand the big goal.
6. Definitely dig all rocks and return the shovel before chiseling (Though thinking now, if the shovel and mallet come back in one trip that could be good). I personally prefer getting the tools back to camp as soon as I'm done with them because, again, tree-snakes.
A lot of it depends on the scope and purpose of the building.
Well the graph shows "new players" doesn't it? So you can't see the attrition there.
True, we'd have to extra data. Speak of the devil!
New players per day / total (unique) players per day = overall attrition rate
whenever total (unique) players per day is relatively constant.