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#51 Re: Main Forum » Jason's Pattern update has accidentally made Curved Rails viable » 2020-01-20 20:03:07

Tipy wrote:

You know trains would be a nice adittion to the curved rails
Saddly I think Jason said they were impossible...
But he said the same about curved rails tongue

I mean, yeah, it required an engine update tongue

Technically an editor update, as it turns out the base game was already OK with supporting repeats of objects in the same category pattern...but getting one tile's object to influence a neighboring tile's object? And not just that, but an object that'd have to interact AND re-combine with objects below it? oof, that'd require a huge overhaul.

...

at minimum...maybe, somehow...combining TapOut function in a 1x1 area from the 'front' of a train, that 'taps' out each cart in a line? ... it'd be super jank, but that might be feasible, somehow...

I don't think that'd work, though, as I think TapOut affects the map rather than the objects directly, and has no way to reverse the "tapout" effect.

#52 Re: Main Forum » Jason's Pattern update has accidentally made Curved Rails viable » 2020-01-20 19:01:51

Ah, neat, I didn't consider that. I'll have to use that for the next time I try to get a rough sketch of a new asset. Thanks!


Edit: The last tip I can provide on how I ultimately came to the solution of Patterns for the NSEW directions is that you have to multiple Inbound possibilities by the Outbound possibilities.

eg. 5 Easts x 5 Wests made each Category pattern require 25 in total for all possible combinations.

After that, I just had to fill in what kind of Cart direction + origin, and Cart + track result was produced by the two rails, and the rest fits.

Using '.' to sort by recent also made the combinations SUPER easy to add, as it cycled through the list with each click. An issue I stumbled upon while setting this up - trying to delete a repeat Pattern entry only deletes the top duplicate, rather than the duplicate selected.

Another issue encountered during this, is that trying to use PgUp and PgDown to move repeat entries up/down the list would ONLY affect the top-most one. It looks like both of these issues are due to the Category system only looking for the first result of that name before interacting with it, rather than the # of the instance selected.

#53 Re: Main Forum » Jason's Pattern update has accidentally made Curved Rails viable » 2020-01-20 18:52:06

jasonrohrer wrote:

I drew the curved rails a long time ago, and they looked really good...

https://i.imgur.com/H1M3Kev.png

I'm still worried about combinatorial explosion, but I'm looking into how this change to patterns affects the situation.

I forgot these existed! yikes

Damn. I don't think they are in the sprites folder, or else I probably would've just used those instead of my very tacky edit. Oh well, here's to your research!

And yeah, as far as I could personally tell, you'd have to organize them very specifically, and if you ever plan on expanding the list of rails in the future, splitting up each cardinal direction is (potentially) best...

#54 Re: Main Forum » *Suggestion* Horses don't run away if within X tiles of a player » 2020-01-19 05:47:47

The suggestion without some serious Engine changes isn't actually able to be done.

That's something I don't think we'll see Jason do.

However, Jason has had the ability to set the various Horse-cart Transitions that cause the movement to Chase the player, rather than running in random directions. Unless he changes that, this is probably intentional to make them 'annoying' to deal with vs. using a Car or ordinary Cart.

#55 Re: Main Forum » Jason's Pattern update has accidentally made Curved Rails viable » 2020-01-19 05:20:53

On a separate note, in case Jason does see this thread, is it possible that OHOL might also get a type of insulated-wall that can support Track Carts transporting thru it?

unknown.png

Also successfully implemented and tested on CCM, worked like a charm. Would be a MASSIVE boost to insulated bakeries in every town. It'll add another type of 'rail' technically to account for, so that might require extra time to code.

#56 Main Forum » Jason's Pattern update has accidentally made Curved Rails viable » 2020-01-19 05:10:38

Wuatduhf
Replies: 32

Yes, you read that title right.

A few weeks ago, Jason made a change in order to implement Bottle storage without having to go through the intensive hassle of multiple-type states:

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … 1e98e55b74

Little did he, or mostly everyone in the community, realize how big of a deal the Pattern change actually is.

unknown.png

Thanks to the ability to repeatedly list the same object multiple times in a Pattern-based Category, additional rail types are now 100% viable to be added to base OHOL.

This was tested successfully in a local branch of CCM, after a little bit of time to work out the necessary components to get the system to work.

9dyy3uL.png

h8LTFMG.png

2dCalF2.png

Each cardinal direction requires ~5 Pattern-based Categories in order to be successfully setup.

It will also require expanding the list of @ Moving Cart to include the additional states of the carts.

Bonus picture of the conclusion for building the Pattern Categories that would then become Transitions:
3yIJT88.png




Overall, I think I have cemented my case we can feasibly ask Jason for curved rails without asking him to spend more time than was spent coding the original rails.

#57 Re: Main Forum » [Discussion] The new Genetic Fitness calculator doesn't fix the issue » 2020-01-18 01:50:44

HUZZAH.

Since my writing apparently isn't good enough to explain what's going on with the numbers, I've pulled out a handy-dandy chart on Google Spreadsheets!

KT0JNzy.png

As you can see above, I have two special columns on the right: Δ Gene Score and Σ Gene score. Respectively, these represent the change in the player's Gene Fitness, and the sum of all changes in Gene Fitness up to that point.

As you can see, every time the player lives to an Age, it impacts the Life Expectancy. I start with 10 instant-SIDs to represent a perfectly-0 starting point.

From there, you can work your way down thru each life and see that the Life Expectancy changes as it re-calculates based on the PAST 10 lives, not including the life you just lived, to see how you fared.

No matter how high, how low, how infrequently you live to Old Age vs. SID'ing, there is literally no physical way that you can extract additional Gene Score from the system that you cannot gain/lose by living to different years.

Every player starts at 30 Gene Score. The maximum Gene Score you can get is from 10 60's in a row, which will put you at +6.60, or 36.60. However, because every player had a different Life Expectancy when version #2 was implemented to the game, technically every player had an uneven "Starting position", which affected how high they could climb right out the gate.

I hope this graph and my explanation here have finally put this argument to bed that players were somehow Cheating Jason's system. They literally were not.

#58 Re: Main Forum » [Discussion] The new Genetic Fitness calculator doesn't fix the issue » 2020-01-17 21:28:47

jasonrohrer wrote:

In your example, don't live to 60 ten lives in a row.  Lives to 60 only 2 lives in a row, then SIDs 10 lives in a row.

The net result would still be the same, you designed the system to lose equal points for going down and gain equal points for going up.

Having exactly 0 Life Expectancy from 10 lives, and then living to 60 twice, would raise that LE to 12. SID'ing 10 times in a row again would cause the player to lose Gene Score 10 times in a row, each is less than the 60 yes, but added up? They would (SHOULD) total the same amount. Unless the game was performing the arithmetic incorrectly, the delta would have been 0. That's the reason that I use the example of living to 60x10, and then 0x10, there is no actual way to game the system to advantage yourself, only to advantage everyone around you in your family.

Quite simply, everyone that had been doing the SID lives, and thought they were cheating, was actually ignorant of the math, OR was intentionally doing it to increase everyone else's Gene Score, which in turn leads to people living longer/having more tools, which in turn would result to everyone else also living longer.

It eventually becomes a self-feeding cycle, of people being able to live longer and longer, to the point that everyone is in the 100's.

#59 Main Forum » [Discussion] The new Genetic Fitness calculator doesn't fix the issue » 2020-01-17 03:01:32

Wuatduhf
Replies: 21

Oh boy it's one of my threads again...better dig in quick!

If you read these forums there's no way you haven't already seen the recent dev changes on the server back-end for how Gene Fitness now works. I'll keep this short and explain the formulas that have existed, and the formula that (I think) should exist.


The issue that plagued iteration #2 of the Fitness calculations pretty much boiled down to one interaction: Life Expectancy and Sudden Infant Death. Even Tarr didn't quite catch on to what was going on, but essentially, here's what's going on:

Everyone's Fitness calculation is based on the Life Expectancy of their last 10 lives before the current one.

Assume you were to instantly-SID 10 times in a row, dying exactly at Age 0.0 . You'd lose Gene Score for all of those 10 lives, but in exchange, your life expectancy drops to 0.
Now assume you spend 10 lives living to Old Age (60). You'd earn +1.2, +1.05, +0.9, and so on and so forth. If you did an 11th Old Age life, you'd earn +0.
Now assume you spend 10 lives SID'ing instantly. You'd lose -1.2, -1.05, -0.9, and so on and so forth. If you did an 11th instant-SID, you'd lose -0.

See what's happening? Because your Gene Score is calculated using your last 10 lives, you are fixed in the amount of Gene score that YOU inherently can give yourself. You can never get higher than 10 Old Age's worth in a row of Gene Score, and you can never lose higher than 10 SID's worth in a row of Gene Score.

Everyone on the server, who understood what was going on, was actually being an 'Altruist'. SID yourself 10 times, and you only hurt your score, temporarily. Live 10 lives back to back reaching Old Age, and you'd give your entire family +1.2, +1.05, etc. etc. While there was no way to give YOURSELF a higher Gene score, the system allowed players to give everyone around them higher Gene Fitness, 'taking a brief hit' in the short run. In exchange, they hoped that others would do it too, and eventually everyone's score would rise up the ranks.

Thus, 200+, 560+ Gene Fitness before Jason decided to reset.

Jason has changed it back to Fitness Score, as the main aggregate for comparing your current age to, since Life Expectancy could be too easily manipulated with SIDs. However, I do not necessarily agree with us going back to the 60-cap system. I also do not think that it will actually tackle the issue that plagued the 2nd Version of the Gene calculator.





Here's the formulas, Jason's newest one, and Gene Calculator version #3.5, the one I think that we should be using:

#1 Original Fitness calculation:
Ae - FSh / 50
Ae - Age of each player
FSh - Fitness Score of host (you)
Score cap: 60


#2 Previous Fitness calculation:
Ae - LEe / 50
Ae - Age of each player
LEe - Life Expectancy of each player
Score cap: Unrestricted


#3 Current Fitness calculation: (Wondible's suggestion)
Ae - FSe / 50
Ae - Age of each player
FSe - Fitness Score of each player
Score cap: 60


#3.5 Proposed Fitness calculation: (My suggestion)
Ae - FSe* / 50
Ae - Age of each player
FSe* - Fitness Score of each player, with conditions:

  • Dying of Old Age (60) caps Fitness Score at 50.

  • Minimum value of Fitness Score is 20.

Score cap: Unrestricted




Why? What's the benefit of #3.5 over #3?

- Gene Score was far more interesting when the Gene Fitness Leaderboard was not capped. People fighting over who could get closest to 60 became stale, while version #2 made people climb the Leaderboard because the accelerator was constantly being pumped due to SID Altruism.
- Not once did anyone a negative Gene Score, due to the SID Altruism, and the fact that you could never tank your own score hard enough. The "Minimum Score value 20" means that players SID'ing or dying at Age 1-20 will ALWAYS lose Gene Score, making Negative values possible (but still a relative challenge).
- Constantly living to Old Age (60) would be the primary way to climb the Gene Fitness Score, since Old Age would reduce a Gene score of 50+ to exactly 50. A more controlled, slower climb up the Leaderboard.
- In the new systems #3 and #3.5, high Leaderboard rankings would be very disaster-prone; if a player had 120 Gene Score and tried to SID/got abandoned, they would instantly lose ~2.00 Gene score.
- As such, Veterans would be ridiculously incentivized to never give up on a town, unless they were willing to sacc their Gene score to not play. SID would become a tool primarily for low-Gene/New players.



Closing thoughts:

In about a week, maybe two, we'll have somewhere between 80-160 players all within Gene Score 58.5 and 60 competing to be #1. Version #3 does not actually address the SID Altruism; the victims will still take a hit, but they will still be able to "give away" gene score.

The flux in the Leadeboard's top players will be so constant, that no one will really care about being on the top, making it the truest "meme score" since its implementation.

P.S.

After further discussion, it looks like Version #3 is actually a percentage delta of progress towards Gene Score 60 between all players, so there isn't actually a way to push a lot of people without having a TERRIBLE Gene Score. The SID Altruism can still be a thing, but someone will have to really bite the bullet hard to get it to work well for everyone else. Scratch the prediction of being being in a 1.5 range of 58.5 and 60; it'll probably still happen but...variables will determine how well that works.

#60 Re: Main Forum » Twins killing everyone » 2020-01-16 13:32:30

Assuming that "idiot griefers" will not change how they handle stabbing/bow-shooting because of the existing mechanics making it easy is a very fatalistic way of viewing things.

Has the rate of murder-griefers gone down, because of how the latest system prevents them from killing mobile prey? Or has the number been unaffected because they switch to potatoes or roleplayers who want to stand still and take it?

Changing game mechanics WILL have an action and reaction. In a couple weeks you'll probably have people complaining "The combat mechanics are too complex and janky, and all the griefers are getting away with it! Make combat simpler so we non-combat people can fight back!"


In my opinion, the solution is still that villages that hit Newcomen stage need to be able to make non-lethal weapons (Batons) to be able to counter-act knife-wielders and bow-wielders. It's been almost a year now that I've been advocating for the addition of the Guillotine and the Baton together, as means to be able to kick out people from a Newcomen town / Belltown that they don't want to see back there again.

#61 Re: Main Forum » Some Different Ideas for Server Systems » 2020-01-15 10:51:32

DestinyCall wrote:

I'm really getting tired of the fake quotes.  I'm going to start reporting them to the moderators when I see it.   Falsifying another person's words is disrespectful and disruptive forum behavior, in my opinion.

Tell me when we see falsification XD.

Nothing there is not the thoughts of OP. If "giving a crutch to support solo play" means "allowing full support for playing the game on your own" it's not an exaggeration that you're treating a game intended as an MMO as though it were a single-player focus.

#62 Re: Main Forum » Some Different Ideas for Server Systems » 2020-01-15 02:09:13

Spoonwood wrote:

If you're playing games like WoW or Runescape with other players, you are doing it wrong. Games with social ties and civilization are all about the solo experience.

When have you ever played a multiplayer game and wanted to play with others?

#63 Re: Main Forum » Your Lineages Are Doomed To Die » 2020-01-13 19:33:22

flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.u2.jpg

Your data is 100% irrelevant to your complaint.

You are presenting an argument that Jason is preventing lineages from lasting longer than 7 days straight and that Wed/Thurs/Fri is the cut-off point. That's how it's been for well over a year now and he even said that the only way around it would be convoluted. You then give data on lineages that died TODAY. Without ANY server reset occurring. It does nothing to your argument but you claim it does, and that the lineages were victims of a server reset.

1) You're straight up lying
2) You're fear-mongering

Using those as tactics to get people to agree with you is actually silly. Stop it. Having to sort between your necro's and your complaint threads makes it difficult to find good posts.

#64 Re: Main Forum » It appears Jason has ran out of ideas » 2020-01-12 01:28:37

Also, in my own opinion (and for selfish reasons because I'm also using it), I think Jason should be able to sit down and spend time cleaning up the OHOL engine, and improving the OneLifeEditor.

There's a whoooole lot of stuff boot-strapped in the code to get certain features of the game working. He's literally adding tags of &SpeechIn or +flight or Alcohol into the NAMES of objects, for pete's sake!

That's like trying to reinforce the foundations of a house with Balsa wood. That might do the job in the immediate sense, but it's not a good long-term solution. I think he knows that, but has to do it because of time constraints. Which ties me back to my argument above, Jason should give himself time to improve the Engine+Editor.

#65 Re: Main Forum » It appears Jason has ran out of ideas » 2020-01-12 01:24:37

karltown_veteran wrote:

WTH is with these weak-ash updates? At least add new characters.

Jason didn't add Grapes just for you to Wine about it.

#66 Re: Main Forum » Lineages Might Last Longer If Killing Was Impossible/Pesistent IDs » 2020-01-10 14:45:10

DestinyCall wrote:

We need a way to deal with the players who are griefing that is more persistent that just killing them in ONE life.    Killing their character might end the threat in our village, but it just pushes the griefer player off onto some other village and gives them a new identity so they can try again.   And again.  And again. 

That's why you end up dealing with griefers almost every life.   It is not because there are dozens of griefers.  It is because every village keeps playing "hot potato" with the obvious griefers.


I mean....I'm just sitting here with my suggestions on what bigger towns need to curb Griefers'/troublemakers' spawning locations.


XjT7n7V.png

#67 Re: News » Update: Fixes Continue » 2020-01-04 02:21:12

jasonrohrer wrote:

Well, the idea is that the stem is kinda woven in the band of the hat.  But yeah, it wouldn't have been too hard to "chop" off the rose stem when making these.

It's a little late now, though, because there are 85 unique hats that would need to be manually fixed!



Sooo what you're saying is someone could manually edits all 85 hats and PR's that on GitHub to see it shift?

#68 Re: Main Forum » Voluntary OHOL Antagonists; The Future of Griefing that OHOL needs » 2020-01-02 18:24:23

Punkypal wrote:

OK, then direct me to the vanilla Minecraft server that has an active player base? Many Minecraft servers that have multiple different types of play, from economy to skyblock or PvP also run a vanilla server. When you pop in there it's empty. Occasionally someone jumps in to muck around a little, but nobody is doing anything substantial there. When someone is there it's because they want to be alone 99% of the time, just like people on OHOL that don't play on the main server.

CivCraft 1.0, 2.0, and 3.0.

It's shutdown now after running for about 4-5 years, and was purely vanilla w/ Plugins. "Civilization Craft" was designed for building civilizations and carrying out whatever politics you wanted with other players.

Its plugins enabled this by doing the following:

  • Citadel - enables player groups and allows adding 'reinforcements' to blocks; you can spend resources on blocks to make them require multiple breaks before they would "actually" break. The most expensive reinforcement, diamond, would force you to break a block 1,500 times before it would actually break.
    If you weren't in the player group that the object (chest/door/etc) was reinforced to, you couldn't open/interact with it.

  • PrisonPearl - killing a player while keeping an Ender Pearl in your hotbar would trap them in The End. The pearl would take their name and would keep them trapped there for a cost of 8 Coal per day

  • RealisticBiomes - All crops and trees are biome-restricted. Crops/trees could be in either 1) their ideal biome for 100% growth speed, 2) growable biomes at reduced speed, or 3) inhospitable biome to that crop/tree.

  • Map generation changes - all metals reduced to 1% of Vanilla spawn rate.

    Massive biomes meant long-distance travel to get other types of crops, which further cemented the point of RealisticBiomes.

  • Experience Orb changes - You no longer earned orbs by doing activities

  • Ore Obfuscation - Ores are replaced with Stone unless you are within X blocks from them.

  • Factories - Chest + Crafting bench + Furnace arrangement could absorb a massive amount of resources to make one of several types of 'Factories'. They followed the industrialization idea of "massive upfront cost for bulk-goods recipes more efficient than vanilla". The factories can't be moved once built; no refunds either.
    In addition, factories were the only way to produce Experience Orbs, which required burning through thousands of crops to get a couple dozen bottles of Enchanting.

  • Jukebox Alerts - Noteblocks and Jukeboxes could be turned into minor and major "Snitch" blocks. They were created by reinforcing them using Citadel.
    The snitch boxes could be named for easier identification.
    1) Noteblocks simply reported when someone outside of the player group entered its 15x15 area.
    2) Jukeboxes reported entry AND kept a log of all interactions within their 15x15 area - opening doors, breaking blocks, placing blocks, breaking chests, opening chests, etc.

  • Enchanting blocks - Emerald blocks were removed from the game. In exchange, EXP bottles could be turned into Emeralds at a 9:1 ratio. An Emerald block was 81 EXP bottles.

  • No Nether, No End - The Nether and The End were disabled. The 15,000-radius map had to be traversed on foot. No exceptions*.

The servers basically became city-states with hundred of players residing in various "nations". On average there were around 80-150 people online depending on the hour and if a conflict was ongoing.

An economy around diamonds and EXP formed. 1 Emerald was worth 3-5 diamonds, and 1 Emerald block was worth 3-5 Diamond blocks. From that, an economy basically worked on everything else.

At its peak there were something like 25 different nations, all with their own spheres operating with their own philosophies and politics and interactions with the other nation-states.

r2LzRV.png

ntKCk3J.jpg


2B2T - 2 Builders 2 Tools

An even more anarchy version of CivCraft. It has few plugins because it's mainly geared towards cheat-prevention. The world itself is relatively anarchy, and most groups operate on secrecy of hiding where their "homes" are, which was what made Citadel on CivCraft so distinct.

I know of this one a lot less, but you can probably get the gist if you can get CivCraft.

Hundreds of people still play it to this day, to the point that there's a short-long queue timer (hours) to get in depending on the time you try to login. There's also a much shorter queue (hour-ish?) if you're a paid member to 2B2T.

#69 Re: Main Forum » If you had a monument like Tarr what would it look like and do? » 2020-01-01 02:27:07

A statue of Michael Punch, looking as insane and devoted as Mofo made him out to be.

A testament to how sometimes, people just want to see the world burn.

#70 Re: Main Forum » Voluntary OHOL Antagonists; The Future of Griefing that OHOL needs » 2020-01-01 02:18:15

Spoonwood wrote:

Rifts


Fuck me, the Rift and Arcs. I left the game prior to that update, and stayed the hell away until it was removed. I think post-Rift Jason said somewhere that it was "just a balancing thing" or something to play off the complete flop that it was. As far as I saw when I came back, he had a lot of balance changes right at the end when he switched back to infinite world, so maybe a small fraction of that is true. But we agree 'balancing' was definitely not the focus.

What matters is that rifts were not Jason's ideal view of OHOL. It was very much what you said, a drastic change in the gameplay loop and jarring to just about everyone, but for whatever reason he kept pursuing it ... to get the 'most out of it' perhaps? He took the community's idea of "Let's just stay in one place and develop that town" to its logical extreme, and perhaps used the Rift to (crudely) punish the community and show them "Yeah, no, you don't actually want that."

He and the community learned that while people do want to go back to the same place often between lives, they don't want to be permanently locked into said places, and eventually want to call a new place "home". Going back to the infinite world, we now constantly move westward at a predictable-ish manner.

Yes, there are "ancient cities" that can be re-visited, but that's just it, they're 'ancient', not 'the town you were just in 15-30 minutes ago.' He's acknowledged going back to the same town in multiple lives, but with gaps of years in-between them, so that you haven't seen it for at least 3-4 generations. That is all consistent with his starting point pre-Rift.

And yeah, there's Eve-chaining, and that feature specifically remains in the game to cater towards the "alternative" mode of playing OHOL, which is the low-pop servers. Low-pop is a game mode just as much as Medium- and Hi-pop, but the actual OHOL gameplay intent is only seen in Med/High. The "dropped in a random town with random people" loop that we've quoted Jason saying now several times.

Jason's mindset on the game will probably keep shifting as he tries to stumble his way towards better versions of OHOL. The original goal of what OHOL is set to give is not going to change though, it is pretty clearly defined as a civilization-building and parenting sim.

Getting to experience the emotional rides of family, making friends, and yes, even playing the game for the first time(s) is 100% on Jason to induce those feelings. It's lazy to suggest that he plays no part in creating the environment that causes those emotions to be experienced.

The sad part is that it's not like I don't want the option to choose where to spawn. I've been on that side of the debate for a while and tried to push for the pregnancy thing, which fell thru... the way I play at the moment is also very much not apart of the intended gameplay loop, I build cities and towns for people to live in. I'm very much ditching the "parenting" loop in favor of the extreme "civilization-building" one.

The game's spawn system has to be re-evaluated if Jason actually wants to explore trading, politics, conflict, etc. Probably something akin to CivCraft's.

#72 Re: Main Forum » Voluntary OHOL Antagonists; The Future of Griefing that OHOL needs » 2020-01-01 00:24:12

Wuatduhf wrote:

all I'll say is that the point of experiencing the multiplayer civilization-building and parenting game OHOL is to be 'blind' to the people and the town/society you're being into; that's the whole reason Jason added area-bans to spawning.

spoonwood wrote:

No.  Jason makes things that way, I think, because he believes it will satisfy more people to have more variety in their games. That way things stay fresh and interesting to players.  That's what he believes.

Additionally, people can pick and choose by /dieing, not only in the low population context, but in the big one too.

Furthermore, Jason hasn't been that adamant as you say.  He did once say that he was going to introduce a choice screen a while back.  In fact, looking back he uses the term 'thrilled', suggesting that player interest lay behind his motivations:

jasonrohrer wrote:

Well, that's the idea of the game, anyway.  Thrown into a different situation every life, and making the best of it.  The fact that players actively fight that doesn't change the intent.

dsmGaKWMeHXe9QuJtq_ys30PNfTGnMsRuHuo_MUzGCg.jpg

Ignoring the fact that Jason has been battling back-and-forth with the demons of giving veterans birth-spawn option, I would maybe agree with your stance. But over the course of the forum's longevity he's made it clear he does NOT want the game to be about constantly developing the same place.

If you are not willing to accept that, that's fine, but twisting the narrative to make it look like he's ready to bend on the game design doesn't sit well with me.

The only person that could bring more clarity to his vision is Jason commenting himself. Until then, the way that I understand the "option of where to spawn" is very much that Jason is trying to prevent that; otherwise, we would've had pregnant-belly moms months ago.

#73 Re: Main Forum » The Future Of Realistic Society » 2019-12-31 22:54:15

This is the only answer this thread needs: one does not simply program a currency.

People derive value from what they find useful and will try to use a common resource, and sometimes bartering, as a medium of exchange.

But none of that matters! There is no real trade in OHOL!

I explore trade in the context of OHOL in a relatively-provocative thread from ages ago: http://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6506

#74 Re: Main Forum » Voluntary OHOL Antagonists; The Future of Griefing that OHOL needs » 2019-12-31 21:11:46

Out of curiosity Dantox, had you ever experienced political/civilization-building servers like CivCraft 1/2/Classic? If you find them entertaining, you would probably enjoy a read through the 'history' of a server called CivCraft2.0, regarding an era I partook in the background of:

https://civclassic.miraheze.org/wiki/A_ … tan_Period

#75 Re: Main Forum » Voluntary OHOL Antagonists; The Future of Griefing that OHOL needs » 2019-12-31 20:54:17

Legs wrote:

Ultimately, the point here is to automate moderation. I don't think that an automated system could replace human judgement in this case, especially when even the humans often disagree on what is and isn't griefing.

Gomez wrote:

Seems you are looking for black and white in a very grey world...

This says it quite well.

There's just too much grey area. Let's say that a harmless berry farmer is expanding his fields. He wants to cover the town in berries. Is that griefing? He's helping to feed all the hungry berry munchers. He's also using up all the town's water on a very inefficient food source. If you start staking and tearing up bushes are YOU griefing? It's not as simple as just black and white.

Again, you're correct, and maybe it's the way I come across, but I'm not saying this should be a black-and-white system at all. If anything it's further grey in the grey landscape.

Such a system doesn't ban players for getting too many negative karma. It's not saying to send them off to Donkey Town, which is also inherently a bad mechanic because it's separating players from the rest of the community arbitrarily (see: Twisted pre-changes, and the seeming lack of griefers that get sent there anyway).

If Jason took this whole-cloth, the only thing it'd do is give you a grinning face. What do people do with that information afterward? They know how you had to have gotten the face; it'd be like the Black-text cursing system of old, but instead it's an automated system that's set for you to have that face.

Should the town...kill you? That's up to the society to decide on, more "pro-social" interaction. At the very least, it's going to give all of the "anti-griefers" an easier time figuring out who to keep an eye on.

As for how I'd consider that in a karma system:
- Adding lots of berry bushes? Why make that a negative karma? There are far more 'harmful' activities that could be done with those resources than planting berries everywhere, not to mention the time investment and the visibility of planting a shitton of berries.

- Removing berry bushes? Just set the system to check how many berry bushes there are in a 50-block radius; if there's, say, less than 15, consider that a negative action to the town. Removing one of them would be a simple poke; continuing to remove the last berry bushes would exponentially grow. The griefer can get around it by simply playing across ~7 hours removing 2-3 bushes at a time to mitigate the exponential negative karma.

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