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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#51 Re: Main Forum » We got "updates" then we go silent » 2020-04-03 01:54:21

I’m not. I stopped a little while ago, but hang around to see if any good changes get pulled out of the hat, and if any previous updates are rolled back. Last time I tried to log in, I just quit pretty much straight away because I knew that any life I played was going to be a (potential series of) grinds, for no real significant, fairly proportional gain for anyone. It’s not even like I’d shoot a chance at a unique life; oh, hooray, this life we baked RABBIT pies! The bakery and absolutely everything surrounding it looked relatively the same as everything else in a previous town though.

There’s no epic tales in this game. Nothing for anyone to remember anyone by. No great people. No great adventures. Just a constant, doomed struggle, until this settlement dies and players are filtered into another one. No explorers, or if there are, there’s no great findings. Just an expanse of repetitive wilderness. No natural landmarks or coastlines. You can go and map some dead villages out if you want, or you can make a map to the next tarry spot (judging by recent changes, this is moot anyway). But you can’t make a visual representation of the surrounding area for your family members to look at and get their bearings, or even set out to discover more, and pursue a legend of a mountain of iron, or sea of oil or something. No gold rush. No scientific advancements and discoveries, with people pushing great limits to discover something never (or at the least even rarely) discovered before, because the tech tree in this regard is too narrow once you’ve done certain things several times. No unique town cultures formed, because there’s nothing unique TO form. No unique hardships, like overcoming a plague and thus your town’s medical development was much better, or a series of severe winters that meant crops failed and relying on hunting and population control was the only option to survive, meaning the town is much hardier and better prepared for something like that in the future. Both are interesting stories.

For an open world survival game, it’s very linear, restricted, and has a very singular play style. No great civilisation can be rebuilt, because no knowledge can be passed down efficiently, because there are no books to educate people who physically can not learn in a tense, life or death scenario, where if no one pulls their weight, the town will fall to shit. You can’t rely on anyone to do anything, because after they hit a certain level of experience they don’t like being told what to do, and see it as an insult... which, to be fair, is sometimes the case, because no one likes a demanding prick. So internal trade can’t happen because of this sense of entitlement, and thus a communal society is the only way to keep everyone happy. Also the fact that people WILL hoard resources and tools, and detriment the development of the town.

Maybe I’m expecting too much though. Maybe this is just a small game, where there is only one possible experience to be had.

#52 Re: Main Forum » The game is dead » 2020-03-28 20:56:55

Morti wrote:

...it doesn't grow the game, doesn't help his career, not going to get word of mouth going that's for sure "One what? Oh yeah, I played that game, it was pretty boring. Nothing to do." because you did it all for them...

I see what you’re getting at. But why should experienced players stop being good at the game and stop trying to progress society if that’s the enjoyment they get out of the game? Of course people should be teaching. That is a fundamental part of the game itself, to pass down knowledge. But oral tradition only works for a while, and when families stop being small and relatives grow distant people should be relying on other methods of “education”, if you like. Which is why books are a good idea. Experienced players should be doing what they do best, and progressing civilisation as they know how, not holding back because there’s not enough to do. It’s all well and good appealing to a small playerbase, and asking the fraction of experienced players to hold back for the sake of a fair portion of new players, but think about potential towns of nearly 100, which has its own established governing body that reports to a bigger town in a hierachy, where people would need to learn what’s in demand for the city in the span of about 15 minutes. Their mum’s not going to tell them, because she has little to no clue through near-impossible communication, because the city became less intimate as soon as it became impossible to know and recognise everyone.

I don’t play much anymore at all, so all tech in one day is likely a great over-exaggeration. But I remember the belltown in the theatre was pretty well developed after a couple of days. If the zoom wasn’t so god damn close, I’m sure people would be fine to take on apprentices, since they’re more reliably not likely to be a huge burden and die, and be a major setback. I’m all for teaching people, but there comes a point where you need to teach yourself advanced things, because I’m confident to assume that’s what we all did.

I’m sure at this point I’ve just spat out a load of nonsense, but I’ve written too much to skim back through it. I think a general idea should be not to introduce nerfs that negatively affect new people just as much as experienced people, but nerfs that bring experienced players to a better proportionate level as new people. Like, for example, time taken to complete a task based off of how much of that task you’ve done that life.

#53 Re: Main Forum » The game is dead » 2020-03-28 12:26:06

Yeah, pretty sure it’s died a slow, agonising death. All the while that the end-game can be reached in less than a day, because there’s no further levels of technology, and people want to restart the cycle again, even if it means sacrificing those hours of work. Need content.

#54 Re: Main Forum » Seed of an idea to be expanded on for trade — Climates » 2020-03-17 04:23:07

Morti wrote:

But you are suggesting that they already exist. So maybe, the world is already, squares, or, areas, of approximately 40,000 square meters (200x200) that if a well is placed in them, become, the home climate, and all the biomes contained within them, their resources, are accessible, by the family that has, acclimatized, themselves, to that area?
Something like that?

Sort of. Definitely predefined areas. But possibly, there are three types of climates that relate to each extreme specialty biome: humid, hot and cold. Each climate defines what kind of specialty biome the map will generate, jungle desert and tundra respectively.. An idea here could be that certain families can only build wells in certain climates, and/or get certain fairly minor debuffs to being in (or settling in) a non-ideal climate. Slightly faster food drain, slightly lower fertility, etc. This would make white people have a little bit of an advantage, since they can settle in any "climate". This would allow people to judge exactly what biomes are around without the requirement of third-party zoom mods, and would allow for a reliable gathering and stockpiling of already valuable resources. This size should definitely be bigger than 300x300 though in my opinion, more judged across how far one town's sphere of influence is. On a side note, I feel like home regions and climates should be more based on the topology of the map, but I understand if that's too much work.

These climates could have a visible map overlay too, but maybe that too is a stretch.


Morti wrote:

So, the racial things aren't perfect, but, the point is there. How to turn that into climates?

K%C3%B6ppen-Geiger_Climate_Classification_Map.png

I think climates are a little too similar to biomes, maybe regions?

Key factor here is the equator, and the fact that the Earth, in contrast to OHOL, has a northern and southern "limit", considering that one is a sphere and one is a completely flat, infinite map. Another idea then with this in mind is that the climate map is generated in a horizontal gradient-like pattern, with "hot" being the equator, "humid" being just above the equator, cold being above that, and then it loops back to the equator...?

Morti wrote:

... I really don't want to say countries, but I could see some similarity. Maybe city limits? Counties? States? Take your pick of any country's wording for political boundaries.
I'd rather these sorts of things weren't forced, but rather, decided upon, by the players, if they so choose, but, we've had some things, and, now we don't have some things, so, test runs would certainly be possible.

Yeah, definitely. countries, states and counties all fall under the social aspects of society, caused by a need to feel divided from another settlement from difference in culture. Climates would however bring a passive, natural reason for a family to call it its "domain", since that's where all the resources that are accessible by only them are. Rivers, for example, are another natural example of a natural feature that have been used to separate different peoples, but I digress.

#55 Main Forum » Seed of an idea to be expanded on for trade — Climates » 2020-03-16 15:50:42

schmloo
Replies: 2

A climate map that covers large swaths of non-extreme biome land that essentially replaces the need for restricting cultivation of certain “luxury” crops (such as sugarcane and glasswort), and instead makes these resources available to some towns and not others. Since “trade” has been enforced through recent changes, this would allow towns to have a reliable supply for any demand that might arise.

Of course this idea of trade still relies on the premise that towns actually survive long enough for a reliable deal that lasts several hours (or many, many generations) can be made. Another problem there is communicating that deal to an entire town, who have their own goals they want to fulfil in the space of a short hour.

#56 Re: Main Forum » Trading » 2020-03-10 02:51:15

Trading does not work, because the game punishes greed and rewards altruism with one of its foundation goals: build a civilisation. There is no sense in having personal property beyond your own backpack, because it hinders the productivity of a town, be it a small effect in a large town or a huge effect in a small camp. There is no reason to do anything for your own personal benefit and sacrificing the benefits of the town if your goal is to help said-town. Multiracial towns (notably belltowns) will always find a way to work out somehow, since there is no downside to having all races working together, let alone giving away to towns for nothing in return because the enjoyment for people who work to see towns thrive is, amazingly, seeing towns thrive.

You’re probably not going to get anything in return for what you do, and that’s fine. Maybe a grave if someone’s feeling generous, and you managed to bond with them somehow. Bit of gene score to bring a bad effect of less tool slots back to a neutral effect. But nothing rewarding besides seeing a town thriving.

#57 Re: Main Forum » Jason, if you like restrictions here's another. » 2020-03-07 03:09:25

Maybe the parents should make the decision to confiscate certain items from kids? It could in theory enable a vital part of parenting to occur: supervision, which would leading to more player interaction beyond raising the child, because you’d want to make sure that your kid can’t cause any trouble straight after hitting 3 minutes into their life. Making things hungry work is a decent solution to some problems, but it doesn’t give players any power to neutralise a passive griefing threat before it actually occurs. Preventative measures. Besides from children, if someone is acting suspicious and someone’s asked to “drop their bow”, all they need to do is reply “no”, and then the only solution then is to kill them.

I feel like a lot of new players are put off by constant killing. Having no passive alternative to a problem makes this inevitable, and new players are going to be put off, and leave. Killing, in my opinion, should be a last resort, not an only solution.

#58 Re: Main Forum » Improving: Property fences » 2020-03-04 21:21:32

Just let people climb over fences, the transition takes longer than 12 seconds (time it takes before you can kill) but short enough time to escape without it being considered too time-consuming.

#59 Re: Main Forum » Jason, if you like restrictions here's another. » 2020-03-03 15:31:04

I have a quick idea that sort of fits into this, where older people have an advantage over younger people:

Snatching: allow people to snatch things off of other people, starting a clicking war over who can click faster. The winner gets the item. Allow people to join on either side, lessening the required click-per-second on that side. People on kill cooldown have more required clicks per second. 14 year-olds and older require less clicks-per-second than younger than 14 year olds, making it easier to take things off of children. Maybe children cry when they lose, so the rest of the town knows when something’s been taken off them?

Also, as a bonus for this, a lasso turns into a long rope when being snatched off of someone, so people can play tug of war.

#60 Re: Main Forum » Food suggestions: » 2020-03-03 15:19:06

Dynamic dishes, with 2 food items per-plate. For example, having vegetables with meat, like grilled tomatoes with steak, and either ingredient can be substituted for anything else, like mutton and grilled tomatoes or mutton and red cabbage. These dishes require sets of cutlery to eat, but all have 4 uses and can provide a creative way to serve yums.

The same thing could be done with soups like turkey broth, stew and suggested above, poured into a bowl and require a spoon to eat, but have 4 uses each and give less pips to allow for bonus stacking.

Edit: Steaks can be cooked rare, medium or well done for MORE yum possibilities!

#61 Re: Main Forum » Lifetime Bear Killing Records? » 2020-02-27 18:06:09

Put it this way, I spent like 80% of my time in the 8-day rift just killing bears.

#62 Re: Main Forum » for those that like music » 2020-02-26 14:36:45

Banging some steel ingots against each other?

Nothing like a bit of Iron Maiden.

#63 Re: Main Forum » For the love of all that is good ADD BOOKS » 2020-02-16 03:51:54

Please, this is great considering more complex things simply can’t be taught through oral tradition. Writing a book for future generations is still working for the benefit of your kids in a way, since someone still needs to read the book. “Oral” teaching should be for the most simple actions. Imagine engineering classes learning how to make engine and oil rig parts, people studying the newcomen hammer/roller/lathe/bore for the first time.

#64 Re: Main Forum » In the Post I hate specialiations, Jason said he might warrant disease » 2020-02-16 01:19:19

Would be pretty cool to see plague doctors and medical researchers. Fitting with the idea of contracting a random disease from certain sources, maybe the disease has a certain set of variable properties, and early remedies can be made from wild, currently one-use plants such as rose madder and indigo, which hold matching properties, and once glass tech is reached, modern research of some kind can take place? Syringes for vaccinations, petri dishes, eg.

#65 Re: Main Forum » Join the Dark Grieferhood - Griefing discord server » 2020-02-11 21:36:14

JonySky wrote:

...

Yep, hence why I said “supposedly”, which you decided to miss out. If there’s going to be no permabans then people need to take it upon themselves to not be pricks. But clearly that’s not gonna happen, because they are sad little people who take their suppressed anger out on people who don’t deserve it, and will look for any excuse. Which is why that would be the only option.

#66 Re: Main Forum » Join the Dark Grieferhood - Griefing discord server » 2020-02-11 15:46:32

Gogo wrote:

How about anti-griefing server ? tongue

Shouldn’t need it, 1) Because people should have the common decency to not treat other people like crap, and/or 2) Because there should be a better system in place to stop these kinds of people even playing, since all they have the intention of doing is causing other people grief in a game supposedly orientated around doing the exact opposite.

Cursing and sending to DT is all well and good as a slap on the wrist for the odd griefing, but when you have weirdos like this there needs to be perma-bans, since griefing will always be much easier than playing the game properly, and infinitely easier than stopping it.

#67 Re: Main Forum » Griefers invaded Punkytown » 2020-02-10 03:41:18

Nah we killed them off one by one when they first started to end zucctown. Individually they’re all pretty shit players who abuse posses, and just heal each other. Make sure you curse them and get everyone else to too.

#68 Re: Main Forum » The "Weekly-Update-Content-Guessing" Game » 2020-01-27 18:02:30

Bottles of human blood to promote trade.

In all honesty advanced medical tech would be pretty cool, maybe give people the chance to revive others from biological death, and then 3 minutes later is a clinical death?

#69 Re: Main Forum » Notice board - for jobs » 2020-01-24 02:26:17

Oh I meant they’d be taking the paper and erasing it to write their own message, because they’re too lazy to go out and make their own paper, then placing it on a grave somewhere else. Make the job titles permanent and they’re more likely to stay in the box unless the board is intentionally messed up/destroyed for some reason.

As for removing spam, that’s just up to the relatively small town community to maintain as they use it really.

#70 Re: Main Forum » Notice board - for jobs » 2020-01-23 16:47:49

I like the idea, there are 2 main problems with maintaining constant job roles for people however — one, if a single generation doesn’t uphold the idea, it goes off the rails until some random decides to pick it back up, and two, vanilla people just can’t navigate around a town when young enough to both find the board and have enough of their life left to perform the job to better effect than if there was no board.

I think the best use of a “jobs board” is for it to serve as a guidline to new people for common jobs that keep a town together. They read it, and pick a job they feel like doing. Maybe keep the note on them. Even better, make all the notes permanent to make them less likely to just get erased for people who want to write shit like “:thx mom ily”

#71 Re: Main Forum » Why so much murder in cities? » 2020-01-20 15:34:30

Guards are stupid. They can’t be trusted because there’s no way to tell if they are genuine about trying to keep a town safe simply from altruism (spending a whole hour just to thwart potential griefers) or if they’re looking to try and end a lineage. It’s better to just be a vigilante and earn people’s trust, and run the risk of getting revenge stabbed.

#72 Re: Main Forum » JOHNMARK DRAGON FUCK YOU!!!!! » 2020-01-18 00:57:18

Vexenie wrote:

I enjoy the simpler things in life, but only if I’m calm.

#73 Re: Main Forum » *Suggestion* Free the horses! » 2020-01-18 00:55:18

We could briefly ride moufflons not long ago, imagine the possibilities...

#74 Re: Main Forum » Alternate tech routes: Water Distillation » 2020-01-15 18:26:07

Yeah, in terms of tech lots of things are very linear, there’s only one way of doing certain things. I’d have given compost as an example but cabbage is compostable now, so instead I’ll use the use of adobe in cooking and smithing.

More food is always a nice thing to had as it keeps the game flavourful (ayy), since everything basically revolves around food. Salted meats would be really nice honestly, especially with the ability to butcher cows.

#75 Main Forum » Alternate tech routes: Water Distillation » 2020-01-14 05:37:11

schmloo
Replies: 2

I’ll clarify first that I haven’t looked through the forums properly in quite a while, so if I reciprocate anything I apologise. I also don’t expect anything to come of this, it’s just a thread for brainstorming different lines of tech progression up to diesel wells.

Currently, the progression of towns beyond deep well tech requires 2 set races, black and brown. Beyond this, gingers are required for constant maintenance through tapping and harvesting crude oil, and white people are a luxury in any town for translation. This feels very linear and doesn’t reward any innovativeness, and instead requires people with good knowledge to (again) carry the tech progression.

So beyond deep well tech, it’d be nice to give other mixed-race towns a chance without the need for a single recipe of races. One example would be water distillation, for black/ginger-mixed towns. This could also open up an opportunity for more glass-working content (that could be used in more advanced chemistry later on, but I’ve deviated) which has been really nice to see in all honesty after all the ups and downs the game has been through. This idea would however be a dead-end branch of water tech that is unrelated to well-tech, which is a common way of identifying a town’s progress, and still requires rubber to be made. Maybe water distillation yields even less water in comparison to a Newcomen pump, so to not make it overpowered? Maybe the process returns a bottle of salt, which needs to be cleaned out before another round of distillation?

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