a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Recipe 5: Red Ochre
Red ochre was probably the first pigment extensively used by humans. Cave paintings are done with red ochre - it’s very abundant - and anthropologists believe that it is likely that early humans painted abundantly with various ochres. Body paint! Also burial sites of ancient humans are full of ochre (as a mineral, it never fades color).
Red ochre is derived from any iron-containing mineral. The pigment can be rubbed over the body in the absence of any binder, and it will stick (like a crayon). Alternatively, mix with a liquid like water, egg whites, or oil to get a liquid paint.
Formula:
1. (98%) Iron Ore + Round Stone = Red Ochre Pigment + Iron Ore + Round Stone
2. (2%) Iron Ore + Round Stone = Red Ochre Pigment + Round Stone
INTRODUCTION
Starting this mega-thread to keep track of recipe suggestions.
My other mega-suggestion thread kind of derailed into radical/unfeasible ideas, so the goal is to keep this one simple and manageable to implement. Feel free to add your own suggestions, but tree to keep them in A + B = C + D format.
RECIPE 1: PINE RESIN
Pine resin is a popular material used in bushcraft, and was extensively used by many primitive societies. Notably, pine resin was the easiest source of adhesive (glue!!) and waterproofing material. Pine resin is also naturally antiseptic (can be used to stop wounds) and flammable (used in torches/lamps).
Formula:
1. White Pine Tree + Knife = Slashed White Pine Tree
2. Slashed White Pine Tree + (Time) = White Pine Tree with Resin
3. White Pine Tree with Resin + (Action) = Pine Resin + White Pine Tree
RECIPE 2: PINE PITCH
Pine pitch is one of the earliest forms of natural glue. Pine pitch was used to haft arrowheads to arrows, celtic stone axe heads to axe shafts, etc. Additionally, pine pitch will waterproof and seal containers. Pine pitch was used to seal boats, barrels, and buckets. Tanned animal skins will not hold water, and the insides must be sealed with pitch in order to use them as water skins. Applying pine pitch to a basket could make it waterproof, and consequently water could be carried with something like a reed basket.
Pine pitch is liquid when hot, but will solidify once it cools down. Apply when hot.
Formula:
1. Pine Resin + Clay Bowl = Bowl with Pine Resin
2. Bowl with Pine Resin + Charcoal = Bowl with Pine Resin and Charcoal
3. Bowl with Pine Resin and Charcoal + Hot Coals = Bowl of Molten Pine Pitch + Hot Coals
4. Bowl of Molten Pine Pitch + (Time) = Bowl of Hardened Pine Pitch
5. Bowl of Hardened Pine Pitch + Hot Coals = Bowl of Molten Pine Pitch + Hot Coals
RECIPE 3: WATERPROOF BASKET
Many North American native cultures used baskets sealed with pine pitch to transport water. The most notable examples were made by Southwest Navajo Native Americans, who made very elaborate and decorative pine pitch baskets and pottery -- since water is one of the most precious commodities in the Southwest United States. Pine pitch baskets could be made larger and lighter than clay pottery, meaning it was more practical for transporting more water over long distances.
Formula:
1. Bowl of Molten Pine Pitch + Basket = Waterproof Basket + Skewer
Use (examples):
1. Waterproof Basket (0/3) + Pond/ShallowWell = Waterproof Basket (1/3) + Pond/ShallowWell (-1 use)
2. Waterproof Basket (1/3) + Pond/ShallowWell = Waterproof Basket (2/3) + Pond/ShallowWell (-1 use)
3. Waterproof Basket (2/3) + Pond/ShallowWell = Waterproof Basket (3/3) + Pond/ShallowWell (-1 use)
4. Waterproof Basket (3/3) + Clay Bowl = Waterproof Basket (2/3) + Bowl of Water
5. Waterproof Basket (0/3) + Bowl of Water = Waterproof Basket (1/3) + Clay Bowl
6. ...etc...
RECIPE 4: PINE RESIN TORCH
A really simple torch that burns for longer than a firebrand. Useful for carrying longer distances.
Formula:
1. Pine Resin + Long Straight Shaft = Pine Resin Torch
2. Pine Resin Torch + Fire = Lit Pine Resin Torch
3. Lit Pine Resin Torch + (Time) = Long Straight Shaft
I also like the skip idea.
PALEOLITHIC STONE TOOLS
In the paleolithic era, stone tools are often classified by tier: Mode 1 (Oldowan), Mode 2 (Acheulean), Mode 3 (Mousterian), Mode 4 (Aurignacian), Mode 5 (Microlithic).
Despite the fact that they are tiered by complexity, not all the stone tools are precisely intercangeable. For instance, later mode tools were sharper and smaller, whereas earlier tools were blunter and larger. Consequently, it is rather important to describe the types of tools that were manufactured in each of these settings.
For simplicity's purposes, Olodwan (Mode 1) = chipped stone. Usage of higher quality materials like flint were not widespread, and the source materials for these tools are relatively widespread and could be found in river beds.
The chipped stone can be typified by the "Chopper" tool -- suitable for cutting, chopping, and scraping. This is the most primitive multipurpose stone tool form. However, it was not particularly sharp, rather small, could not be easily repaired, and had a high degree of inconsistency/variability with regards to its manufacture.
In Acheulean (Mode 2), the "Hand-axe" is the upgraded form of a "Chopper". Hand-axes are multipurpose tools that could be used for digging up roots, cutting/smashing killed animals, boring hides, etc. Acheulean tools are made from higher quality starting materials than Oldowan, and utilize a larger lithic core that could be quarried or mined. Acheulean tools are manufactured with greater predictability, and the shapes can be quite consistent. Additionally, Acheulean technology allowed the "retouching" of damaged stone tools, repairing them slightly.
At this point I will discuss more specialized stone tools. Regardless of the technology tier, the type of stone tools that can be produced can be classified by the size of the starting material. A "Core Tool" (that originates from the larger piece of knapping) includes Choppers, Cleavers, Picks, and Handaxes. A "Flake Tool" (that originates from the smaller piece) includes Bores, Points, and Scrapers. Finally, a "Blade Tool" (arises in Mode 4 Aurignacian tech) includes Blades and Burins.
Of these tools, "Choppers" and "Handaxes" are relatively multipurpose (with handaxes being capable of fulfilling most functions). However, these are not specialized tools, and consequently not as good as the specialized tool variants. Consequently, the game should account for this by applying a debuff when a multipurpose tool is used for a specialized purpose.
A Cleaver has a flat strike surface (is generally heavier), and ideal for butchering animals/chopping into bone marrow.
A Pick has a thick end (think trianglular prism), and was ideal for digging into the ground; a little like a shovel.
A Bore is used as an awl to poke holes in hide.
A Point is the generic term for anything sharpened to a point, like an arrowhead.
A Scraper is a tool used to scrape hides.
A Blade is a multipurpose cutting tool. Sharp.
A Burin is a tool that is great for engraving and working with wood/bone/antler.
Acheulean Lithic Tool Implementation:
Object/Tile: Lithic Nodule
- Parameter: Type (enum) - example: Flint Nodule
- Parameter: Capacity
- Essentially a flint mine. Has a limited capacity. Typically found on exposed cliffs near limestone (or chalk) formations.
Nodule Mining Formula:
A: Lithic Nodule + Ground Stone = Lithic Core + Lithic Nodule + Ground Stone
B: (fail) Lithic Nodule + Ground Stone = Lithic Stone + Lithic Nodule + Ground Stone
C: (fail) Lithic Nodule + Ground Stone = Debris + Lithic Nodule + Ground Stone
Object Family: Lithic Core (a high quality lithic starting material suitable for advanced lithic crafting; obtained from lithic nodule)
- Parameter: Size
- Parameter: Type (enum) - examples: flint, chert
- Parameter: Durability
Lithic Core Formulas:
A: Lithic Core + Ground Stone = Chipped Lithic Core + Ground Stone + Debris
B: Lithic Core + Ground Stone = Chipped Lithic Core + Chipped Stone + Ground Stone + Debris
C: Lithic Core + Ground Stone = Chipped Lithic Core + Chipped Flake + Ground Stone + Debris
Notably, the ground stone size is a determinant for the chipped core size. A larger ground stone = smaller fragment remaining.
Chipped lithic cores (of particular sizes) are used to make particular tools.
Lithic Tool Formula:
A. Chipped Lithic Core + Ground Stone = Lithic Tool (depends on the size of the chipped core + groundstone) + Debris
B. Chipped Lithic Core + Ground Stone = Lithic Tool (depends on the size of the chipped core + groundstone) + Chipped Flake + Debris
C. Chipped Lithic Core + Ground Stone = Chipped Stone + Debris
Using the correct size ground stone is critical for Acheulean tool making (this is an approximation for the technical difficulty).
If the wrong size is used, it's possible to overshoot the intended tool and knap off too big of a piece (forcing the player to end up with a smaller/different tool). There is higher variability using ground stone than a soft hammer when performing this step.
Object Family: Soft Hammer:
- Any kind of wooden stick (billet), bone, or antler
- Will consider parameters for this later
Lithic Tool Formula using Soft Hammer:
A. Chipped Lithic Core + Soft Hammer = Lithic Tool (depends on the number of times this is done) + Debris
B. Chipped Lithic Core + Soft Hammer = No change
Note: This uses the OHOL smithing system. 1-hit=axe, 2-hit=etc; meaning that soft hammers allow more precise crafting. However, soft hammer lithic reduction should both be more time consuming and be technically harder (greater failure rate). Nonetheless, its far less likely that the player will mess up and make a tool they didn't intend.
EARLY PALEOLITHIC: ACHEULEAN LITHIC TECHNOLOGY
The second tier of stone age lithic technology (after Oldowan) is Acheulean, which also corresponds to the Early Paleolithic period.
Under the Acheulean Industry, several advancements were made to to lithic technology. The first change was that early humans started to use larger and dedicated lithic cores to produce tools, implying that humans spent a lot more time and energy searching for the best materials to make stone tools. No longer did people just pick up any old rock from the river bed. Notably, this is the period during which we see many more flint and chert tools -- the classic preferred materials in the European stone age.
A typical Acheulean hand-axe was around 8 inches long (over double the size of Oldowan), and originated from a "lithic core" ~12 inches long. Many of these "lithic cores" were furthermore obtained from an even larger "flint nodule", which was potentially dug out from a flint mine (see prior post on distribution of flint) or other large rock source.
By focusing on higher quality stone, the production of tools could be much more precise and predictable.
Additionally, Acheulean flintnappers started using wood and bone "soft hammers", which allowed increased fine-control. Particularly, soft hammers were critical for thinning large lithic cores into a manageable shape. Acheulean techniques also led rise to the "tranchet flaking" method, which allowed for the sharpening and "retouching" of old stone tools that weren't possible in the Oldowan industries.
Acheulean stone tools were unquestionably sharper and larger than Oldowan tools, and they could be "repaired" a limited amount of times.
However, a sharper edge also meant more fragile (given that stone tools fracture easily). Consequently, Acheulean stone tools were generally more intended for cutting than hitting (e.g. hand axes for skinning a hide).
Oldowan Lithic Tool Implementation:
Object Family: Lithic Stone (any stone that can be chipped and form a sharp edge; not true of all stones)
- Parameter: Size
- Parameter: Type (enum) - examples: quartz, basalt, chert
- Parameter: Shape (enum) - examples: triangle, circle, flat
- Parameter: Sharpness
- Parameter: Durability
Object Family: Ground stone (any hard stone; is not a lithic stone)
- Parameter: Size
- Parameter: Type (enum) - examples: granite
- Parameter: Shape (enum)
- Parameter: Hardness
- Parameter: Durability
Object/Tile: Stone deposit
- Parameter: Type
- Parameter: Capacity
- In real life, stones (particularly in river beds) are often found in large clusters. You can search in one place for a rock you desire.
- When interacting with a stone deposit, you draw a random rock (e.g. lithic stone, ground stone) with random parameters with frequencies defined by the type of a deposit. For instance, drawing from a (riverbed type) stone deposit may give you a certain distribution of rocks. Every time you draw a random rock from a stone deposit, the capacity parameter decrements until there are no rocks left in the deposit.
Many stones should be able to stack on a tile ("Pile of Stones").
Oldowan Lithic Reduction Formula:
A: Lithic stone + Ground stone = Chipped stone (pick random tool type, influenced by stone shape) + debris + Ground Stone
B: Chipped stone + Ground stone = Chipped flake (pick random tool type, influenced by stone shape) + debris + Ground Stone
C: Lithic stone + Ground stone = Chipped flake (pick random tool type, influenced by stone shape) + debris + Ground stone
D: Lithic stone + Ground stone = Lithic stone + Ground stone
E: Lithic stone + Ground stone = Lithic stone (reduced size/durability) + debris + Ground stone
Formulas (A) and (B) represent intentional outcomes "success" outcomes.
Formulas (C-E) represented unintentional "failure" outcomes.
Generally speaking, oldowan stone tools should have a high base failure rate. Even at 100% mastery, there should still be failures.
Oldowan Lithic Reduction should always generate lithic stone/chipped stone that is at equal or less durability/size than the starting materials.
TECH TREE PROJECT: OVERVIEW OF LITHIC TECHNOLOGIES
The paleolithic era is characterized by control of fire and usage of stone tools. Consequently, they are earliest preserved tools in the "tech tree" of humanity, and in fact were utilized by pre-hominids in the Homo genus. Chimpanzees have also been observed using stone tools (albeit primitively). Importantly, despite the fact that there is a disproportionate focus on stone tools in the archaeologic record, this does not rule out the fact that early hominids likely also used wooden and other perishable tools.
Early hominids had different physiologies and lifestyles than modern humans, and these characteristics are important to keep in mind while evaluating early stone tools. Scientists believe that proto-humans had less fine motor control and a weaker grip. In some aspects, proto-humans probably resembled chimpanzees.
Currently, proto-humans of the early/middle-paleolithic were believed primarily to be omnivores, with a majority of the diet attributed to nuts, berries, tubers, and honey. Their diet was supplemented by scavenging prey taken down by other predators, and early stone age proto-humans are not believed to have done much hunting of their own. Proto-humans utilized tools for many of these circumstances.
Hominids could eat nuts by crushing them with rocks.
Hominids could eat tubers by digging them up with sticks (few surface animals have this capacity to dig this deep into the ground).
Hominids could scavenge carcasses, cut hide, scrape, and split bone marrow with sharp stone tools.
Years ago, I performed back-of-the-envelope efficiency calculations on various foods and determined that calorie-poor foods (e.g. berries, dandelion greens, cattail tubers) are not feasible staples for a human diet. Particularly, humans would have to spend a majority of their time constantly eating (think herbivores; bears eat 30,000 berries in a single day) if they tried to live off of such diets. To fulfil a 2000 calorie diet on solely on something like Lingonberries (5 cal/oz), assuming that berries are mostly water, and individual would have to eat ~3.1 gallons (11.8 liters) of berries in a single day. Note that the human stomach only has a capacity of ~4 liters, so a person would sooner be retching than reach the necessary caloric requirement on berries.
(All of this aside, humans have a great capacity to fast without food -- so not eating for a few days won't kill anybody -- however the 2000 calorie diet is the benchmark for the amount of calories a person needs to eat on average over a long time to maintain their body weight).
For reference, here's some values for various meats:
Clams (10 cal/clam) - Need to eat 300 clams per day for 3000 calories
Egg (75 cal/egg) - Need to eat 40 eggs per day for 3000 calories
Squirrel (132 cal/animal) - Need to eat 23 squirrels per day for 3000 calories
Rabbit (790 cal/animal) (1 lb meat) - Need to eat 4 rabbits per day for 3000 calories
1 ft long river fish (960 cal/animal) (1 lb meat) - Need to eat 3 fish per day
Salmon (5760 cal/fish) (6 lbs meat) - 1 salmon lasts one person for 2 days
Turkey (7200 cal/animal) (10 lbs meat) - 1 turkey lasts one person for 2.5 days
Deer (59,360 cal/animal) (70 lbs meat) - 1 deer lasts one person for 20 days
Bear (68,800 cal/animal) (100 lbs meat) - 1 bear lasts one person for 23 days
In short, don't count on trapping squirrels to sustain your wildnerness diet. More likely than not, you would burn more calories chasing squirrels than than you get from the ones you catch. Opportunity cost is a critical consideration when considering hunter-gatherer diets.
By observing the behavior of the modern-day Hazda hunter gathers, we observe that nobody in the tribe would spend their entire day picking berries in the berry fields (it's not efficient) or hunting squirrels. However, as tribe members migrate through the wild focusing on calorie-rich foods, they won't hesitate to grab berries off of the bushes they pass without even stopping (constantly on the move!). Nobody would deny free food if it's right in front of them. However, certain things aren't worth dedicated effort to go out of your way for.
In either case, I've derailed enough.
Onto paleolithic cultures and technologies.
EARLY PALEOLITHIC: OLDOWAN LITHIC TECHNOLOGY
The earliest lithic tools are categorized as part of the Oldowan industry.
Oldowan stone tools were predominantly made from local stone materials, typically found in river beds. Flint/Chert was not necessary in this period, and in fact a majority of stone tools were made from lesser quality stones that fracture (e.g. quartzite, basalt, etc.) less predictably or are less sharp. Keep in mind depending on your area, flint could be a rare resource.
Consequently, the inability to precisely control lithic fractures (in part due to poor quality starting materials) meant that stone tools had to be made from pebbles/rocks that were already approximately the shape of the final tool. For instance, an axe-shaped river rock was used to make a hand-axe. Consequently, this also meant that making stone tools in the Oldowan period included a laborious search for the perfectly shaped rock for a certain tool. Furthermore, only a subset of rocks fracture according to planes. Additionally, the process was error prone and difficult to control.
It was rare to make more chips than necessary on Oldowan tools.
Formula: Lithic stone (many different stones can be used, usually a river stone) + hammerstone = flake + sharp stone + debris
Depending on the type of tool, either the flake or the core was used. "Choppers" (hand-axes) were likely fashioned from the large fragment. "Scrapers" were likely fashioned from the flakes.
Stone tools such as these were not particularly sharp. They were thick, pebble-sized, and have a lot of variation from tool-to-tool. Whether or not a sharp-edge formed was probably semi-random.
Despite being called "hand-axes", it probably wasn't appropriate to use such tools for heavy concussive purposes. Stone tools chip and shatter easily, especially lithic stone tools (used more for cutting things like skinning carcasses than hitting), and the lifespan of a lithic tool would be quite short if it was indeed used for whacking against trees. More likely -- ground stone ("harder" stone rather than "sharper" stone) was used for such heavy purposes, which I will discuss some other day. Takeaway point: hand-axe is for cutting (or gentle chopping), not hitting as hard as your can!
I’m generally happy with the idea; makes maintaining yum a lot easier.
I’ve gotten (almost) stuck inside a town too.
Eve/grinder/raider from another town came and claimed all the gates. Before anyone noticed, all the gates were shut and locked and no one could get out.
It’s part of the reason I dislike property twigs — I’d be fine with it if the game didn’t try to pretend anythng and just said these were magical forcefield sticks that project an impenetrable plasma forcefield. When I locked inside of a town, I stare at the sticks and find it ridiculous that we can’t get out of our own fence.
They look super flimsy. A little kick and they should fall over!
But no. We’ll just starve to death inside because we can’t remove our own rickety sticks.
It’s incredibly immersion breaking, you know?
I was in that village XD ...planting trees!
Well exploring is hard, Only REALLY need to leave town for iron ore. Greater tech like radios and whatnot require exotic ores but aren't needed for the town.
Well, by the time you have enough knowledge for those advanced things, you've probably gotten to the point where you're comfortable leaving town.
I think this update makes the bow incredibly (over)-powered.
Perhaps there should be some RNG chance of missing?
As it is, bows basically become the most powerful weapon in the game.
Pine pitch glue!
Sometimes I find the asking suspicious— a lot of murders are done just a tiny bit outside of town.
I also agree that there are ways to implement marriage without restricting oneself too deeply according to social constructs.
In my view, if a fertile male/female pair mutually “marry”, the main outcome should be a fertility boost (and the family tree added for the male).
To marry, both players type /MARRY YOURNAME in close proximity. Maybe this could display a special heart icon when this is done.
Any two people could do this action (this enabling LGBT marriages), but the lineage/fertility effects are only applied if it’s a male-female pairing, both are fertile, and the couple is at least separated by two-degrees of relatedness (e.g. first cousin... pick a degree!).
Players could /MARRY someone else at any time, annulling the previous effect.
Only the most recent marriage pair is considered active. For polygamous couples, I guess players would have to /MARRY back and forth and take turns.
The name of this topic XD
For me, personally I don’t like the magical-ness of fences. Opening a fence gate makes intuitive sense unless it’s locked — and I’ve hopped fences all the time in the past.
So I’d personally prefer to see other means of accomplishing what fences do in OHOL.
Off the wall idea: marker stones.
Hit a home marker with a magic rock and now the magic rock will point to the marker whenever you are holding it. Maybe you could pass this along to your children or other people.
Or perhaps you find a body in the wilderness and a marker stone they dropped, and it points somewhere, but where does it lead?
I think wio sold me on why a procedural tech tree my suck. XD
That said, I still like some idea of the limited tech tree. Mio and whatduhf both discussed methods of potential implementation (I personally favor the probability failure transitions, with vertical generational learning by osmosis). I think it would be especially cool if the tech tree was more parallel with lots of redundant technologies. For instance, the fire plow, hand drill, bow drill, fire saw, etc. are all different methods of starting fires. A proc tech tree could be approximated (without really being procedural), by giving an eve a random set of equivalent skills that they’re talented at. One eve might be a pro at a fire plough, and another might be awesome at the hand drill.
Of course, even if you’re not talented at something (and have zero experience in a subject), clearly you can attempt to craft it. However the failure rate would be high, and you could learn from your mistakes with an improving rate over time. Perhaps you could gain some amount of passive experience by practicing on similar subjects. The balance of this is nuanced and has a lot of potential — how much knowledge should be “heritable” and “taught” versus personally experienced through trial and error?
Finally, there’s the UI.
Would there be a similar “YUM” and “MEH” box when people are crafting now? To represent how confident they are they’ll succeed?
On a side note, I think think it would be nice if the tab recipe section autofocused according to mouseover. When a person holds a sharp rock and they mouseover long straight shaft, I think it would be a huge QOL improvement if the recipe section auto filtered for that recipe to show it would make a short shaft.
Maybe it’s something on your local side? Perhaps someone in your network chain is blocking the server.
I’m not even sure if OHOL has the capability to block players?
The problem with this is that I can’t tell if Jason considers this griefing or if it’s a feature.
jasonrohrer wrote:One thing that was suggested a long time ago was a procedurally generated tech tree. It would be an insane undertaking....
But anyway, the general idea for a game about actually learning stuff in each life would be something like, "You're on an alien planet with totally different rules. On this planet, a bleep plus a blorp makes a blat."
Then after civ dies out there, it's reborn on a different planet with different rules, where bleep + blorp does not make a blat.
The tech tree would only be known by the server, and it would be up to the players to discover it through experimentation and pass the knowledge on to future generations.
I believe that with a non-proc-gen tech tree, any artificial limits on the tech tree ("you don't know baking") would be frustrating. I mean, you KNOW how to bake, dammit, but the game just won't let you do it. Maybe I'm wrong about that.... I mean, there are RPGs and all kinds of other games where you learn skills over time (even if you've played the game before...). And Rust had blueprints, at least for a while. But I've always been pretty frustrated by those mechanics myself. Combining bluprint "points" at a "research table" never really felt like inventing stuff to me. Nor did leveling up skill points in an RPG.
I would find such frustrating. I already find it frustrating enough when I can't do certain things, such as pick up stone block for a belltower (alright... that was before the recent can't curse outsiders and everyone is close now system... but still can't pick up a boiler until mature), because of age.
Haha I didn't realize that people felt that way. XD
Personally, I would love to see something like a procedural-ish tech tree. OHOL always appealed to me because of the "parenting" and "teaching" aspects, so in this sense I really love anything that emphasizes the bond between a parent and their child. I always felt it was kind of silly that a 5-year-old baby can run off and start smithing immediately (and to be fair, I'm one of those kids...). I feel like there's some untapped potential in terms of how currently in OHOL, the extent of a mom-child interaction is really just dressing them and asking if they're new. I feel like it would be nice if there was something a little bit more on top of this.
Childhood, to me, is a time of rapid learning -- so I've been wondering about the possibilities of what kinds of vertical transmission could be better incorporated into the game. Languages have that kind of vertical transmission -- and I'd love to see a lot more of that kind of thing!
Regarding a limited non-proc-tech-tree, what if:
- There was a success rate associated with each action.
- If your "experience points" (heritable) are lower, there's an increased chance of failure.
- Higher-tier/complicated recipes have increased chance of failure.
- For instance, picking gooseberries is super easy/intuitive, so there's a virtual 0% chance of failure.
- For instance, you maybe you try to bake pies, but you have a chance to burn them.
- Children absorb "experience points" in activities simply just by watching. Therefore, by standing in a bakery during childhood, they're naturally absorb experience points watching people bake.
- Children absorb "experience points" from their mother (or anybody carrying) as she holds and *talks* to them.
You could also start Eve's with excellent foraging/wildlife skills:
- For instance, very good at starting fires from scratch
- For instance, good at snaring rabbits
- For instance, cooking over coals (as opposed to a stove)
And in the mean time, you can apply a skill decay if a person doesn't use skills. Over many generations in a modern future, people might lose the ability to start fires easily (e.g. many failed tries before they succeed), or they might lose talent with a bow if society starts to use guns.
The tradeoff would be for enriched "experience points" in advanced topics like engineering, smithing, etc. An eve might be "bad" at these topics (e.g. higher failure rate, kind of like the oil drill failure rate), although a modern factory worker would probably be conversely bad at shooting a bear. The heritability of skills, particularly from your mother (whoever carries you), encourages the type of play where kids would have a strong incentive to socialize and bond with the adult they want to "apprentice" with (meanwhile your mom likely wants you to inherit the family business and family legacy"). Also this would give a reason for old grannies to pick up kids and just talk about anything, as the skills get transferred at a certain rate by osmosis.
I think it would make a much more colorful society too. When you need a hoe, you're more likely to go looking for the best smith in town to ask them to make it for you, because perhaps you don't want to risk the 25% chance that you screw up doing it yourself (wasting materials). I think this reflects reality too -- in theory we could do maintenance on our own cars at home in our garages (especially if you're good at it), but I take mine to the bodyshop because I trust the pros to do a better job than I can. And obviously I don't want to break my car.
But then again -- this is solely what I would find interesting for a game like OHOL -- idk if others feel the same way as me.
Nails don't exist in OHOL, I guess that's the reason xD
I ended up watching the video and enjoyed it quite a bit!
As for OHOL, we currently lack any systemic means of vertical transmission of technology. Everyone (all players) know how to make everything on the technology tree at birth, which effectively means technology itself in OHOL cannot inherently improve or decay. Rather, the limiting factor is more so resources (e.g. iron) rather than technology.
I would love to see a system that diversifies technology tree knowledge around OHOL players.
For instance, perhaps not all players would know all the recipes at birth, and instead the recipes that a character knows are partially inherited from one's parents, leading to a gradual specialization of each life in OHOL.
In one game, you might have a deep baking tree because your ancestors did tons of baking, and you can make the fanciest and best pies for thousands of tiles around. You can continue the family tradition (and pass on those skills to your children), or you can boldly refuse to be boxed in by the family trade and instead be mediocre at something else (idk, ice fishing?).
In another game, you might be a Newcomen engineer descended from a family of engineers.
Or perhaps a tailor.
I'd love to see built-in systems that make some parts of the technology tree accessible to some players are not others. I'd love to see greater emphasis on "teaching" your kid to pass on your family trade. I'd also like to see the slow, painstaking, and tedious process of research it takes advance your field to the next step. Upgrading from a deep well to newcomen pump for the first time should take generations of effort and gradual research that is vertically transmitted. It'd be awesome inherit great grandpa's "research notes" on the Newcomen Atmospheric Core prototype -- the first one ever made in the world -- and know that if those papers are lost, perhaps decades of research will be lost forever.
And maybe even after the first Newcomen is made, civilization could collapse if you don't bother to teach your kid those important lessons from the past -- fighting against your kid's complaints that "the technology is obsolete, why should I learn it?!" -- and all of those cute fun things. xD
Can we be nice, please?
It’s fine to be upset about things, but name calling only escalates things. That goes for Spoon too — I’m pretty sure Jason just tunes them out at this point — shouting louder doesn’t do anything if they’ve mentally “muted” you.
Insulting and bashing people usually doesn’t make people very inclined to listen to your point. If anything, it does the opposite, causes people to tunnel vision onto the attacks (regardless of what the actual objective points were), and often makes them less willing to cooperate.