a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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the attacks
Calling this an 'attack' is generous -- attack implies you know what you're doing.
This is really just a very petty person being a nuisance.
My assumption is that Jason didn't expect anyone to behave so poorly (and it hasn't likely happened at this level before) and so now he has to make some adjustments at a time when he's clearly busy with other stuff.
I tested out insulation bonuses using hetuw and discovered the following:
FLOORING:
Wood = Stone (note ancient stone cannot accept bear skin)
Bear skin add 0.1 to stone/wood
Pine needles = -0.2 relative to wood
Stone block = -0.3 relative to wood
Snow is 0.2 better than pine needles
Note each floor tile effects the total bonus (by the above factors)
SPACE:
It appears adding one tile to a building decreases its indoor bonus by 0.1 per interior tile
POSITION:
Some people have mentioned before that different areas have different bonuses within a building. Based on the hetuw mod, this is untrue as the bonus is always the same no matter where you stand in an enclosed structure.
DOORS:
Wood door is 0.2 better than snow door
DESIGN:
The only significant factor other than materials and space is storage -- stone walls cannot hold storage but plaster can but only on east-west walls.
This mean to maximize storage efficiency wide(east west) buildings are better than long (north south)
NORTH/SOUTH STORAGE TRICK:
It is possible to put an east-west plaster wall piece in a north/south wall. This creates one additional storage space.
I have tested it, and these odd walls do in fact still provide insulation bonus making them the most storage efficient.
Same shit here, something is wrong with the server. Some people were saying there is a ddos or something going on or something.
lol why not
Over a period (of irl days) if you leave meat out, it pops and then spawns back onto wherever the bones are.
If it hits four, the bones pop into a pile of berries and a carrot.
When those pop, the well regens water and a soil pit regenerates soil (lets leave compost alone)
Way overcomplicated but still kinda cool.
tracking such detailed information wouldn't be beneficial
You're actually right but there are other, more efficient ways to do this -- like an in/out value for each resource on the map or in an area.
Instead of trying to put it back (which is still pretty cool but unnecessary) new resources can just spawn.
Someone allocates two clay for a wall. When the object decay two more clay must regenerate (probably within a distance or according to spatial distribution)
Since the game is in C++ I'm sure there is some memory tracking that is pretty similar already implemented.
Map is already wiped in areas not visited for a while
Just making this happen faster is a much easier solution but then we lose the history dynamic.
I think at very least, some things should get wiped faster than others like stone walls.
If you consider the thousands of years counted in game, not many structures even last that long in real life or at least not much is left of them.
But stone walls could at least be partially persevered where clothes and wood things should go much faster.
I think everything just needs to slowly revert back one step.
ie painted wall turns back into plaster, then adobe wall, then two things of adobe, then two things of clay/reeds, then nothing.
When the clay goes back to 'nothing' I think the pit it came from should re-grow. The water used to make the plaster immediately returns to the well.
This way all resources including mines, tarry spots, and wells just constantly regenerate at some rate (fast enough to come back to, slow enough that you must leave eventually)
So I noticed eve spawn jumped roughly 10-15k east again.
This seems to have happened roughly when I stopped maintaining the highway.
My guess is that survival is too difficult for many players so they moved east looking for the road and old towns.
I stopped building the road partially because I was busy but also no one was helping anymore and the west drift required too much time/grind to keep up with.
Another problem is that all these dead wells this far east means no water and the tarries are dried up also.
Possible that these things could respawn?
I noticed that shallow wells do break down back into viable springs when the family dies (I think) so resource regeneration could be an option.
This would actually reduce the amount of server resources I'd imagine cause the map could be much smaller.
People mentioned before that some things should break down (trucks etc) if this was applied to all structures and objects these areas would be progressively
wiped clean which would also be useful (and realistic).
Whatever the case, Eves are again spawning east into dead zones.
I mentioned once before that east shifts in homeland were problematic and I think that east shift rate should at least be halved to prevent this from happening.
Im not interested in programming an ai, ive got a lot on my plate atm already. That said I am aware of their potential.
and...
If you bot any game completely it then plays itself. There is no game to play left.
I work on procedurally generated/ai driven content and, believe me, its hard. It would break repeatedly and probably never be able to sustain itself without constant player corrections.
What I think about the source code, its worse then hell....
I was looking at the game source a bit and it seemed fine.
I don't see much point in self automation but it would be a good place to start as proof of concept.
My issue is that, if I was going to do this, I would want to do it properly with a solid scripting interface and this would take a lot of time/effort.
I don't see the point in investing without any guarantee that it would be implemented into the game.
I may talk with the 2HOL team at some point to see if they are interested.
Even if we could create an interface which would be difficult, getting it to be useful will be harder.
I would expect on and off experimentation from vet players and modders with mostly limited use cases.
But theoretically, yes.
Instead of just towns of human players you could have multiple settlements contributing to a greater region of players.
But none of the existing gameplay would be lost either, and honestly, a better place for newer players to work in anyhow.
I still think making some kind of in game (or portable) interface to define automated behavior for either robots or drone babies would open so many possibilities (mainly for the veteran players)
It would probably be rough at first but one day we could actually see mega cities and complex emergent gameplay like wars and diplomacy
what does the code point to
I've noticed a bit of unusual western drift recently.
My guess is whatever value the home regions are anchored to has jumped -- possibly twice in that direction.
After months now, what I've noticed is the spawn appears to be anchored to a specific point, with a certain range east and west, and every once and a while an eve walks far in one direction and that anchor moves. At least, that is what it seems like.
I'm pretty sure there are limits to how far anything can scan. For example, large portions of the map are suspended when no players are there.
To be able to eat efficiently you have to yum. Without yumming, a small number of bots would consume all of the wild food in an area very quickly.
That in itself could be problematic but the point is that to have the pips in order to do anything substantial you need a variety of food which requires a variety of cooking and resources.
This also requires an oven and tools which also requires a kiln steel, smithing etc
If you can script such a drone, then I dive hat to you, sir.
It seems you are thinking of bots in the context of a game designed for bots and OHOL is not that.
Drones, in this case, are still bound by the same rules as players. If they are robots, they need fuel and if they are humans they need to eat.
This makes the cost of a drone extremely high and therefore there would be very few.
More likely than not people won't even be able to get them to be beneficial.
The notion of a town full of bots would require mastery of both game mechanics and scripting -- anyone at that level is surely not a griefer.
The way I see this working best would either be with some kind of 'drone baby' that a mother can optionally have or some kind of craftable robot. In either case, the bot performs one of several pre defined behavior patterns. Ideally, there would be some in game or mod interface that allows the player to define different behavior.
I don't ever expect there would ever be drones getting oil or doing trade -- but you never know.
But these features would enable greater in game projects. Families would not die as often (potentially not at all).
Players could actually venture out and create their own towns on their own with drones that other human players can interact with.
If Jason did want for there to be war-like gameplay (hence, the sword) this one of the only ways this would ever be viable.
And finally, whether using pre-built scripts or manually built through the game or modding -- maintaining a village of bots would not be easy.
Any type of population simulation requires a delicate balance of birth vs resource. OHOL, in particular, would be vastly complicated even if the player is there to manage the drones.
This would offer a whole new level of gameplay for vets who have run out of things to do and still requires intimate understanding of existing game mechanics to work.
I see this most likely being implemented in 2HOL, or possibly my own fork. In either case, I believe some form of automation is the direction the game needs to go to continue developing forward and also to sustain itself.
There are simply not enough players in general and also not enough good players to fill all the roles so that the game can run smoothly.
Drones are, in my opinion, the best (and probably the only) solution.
expired I think
Can someone give me a link or invite or whatever to the discord? Every link I've tried takes me to a page where I can't see anything.
I think a lot of the emergent problems players have been mentioning on the forums can be solved by varying degrees of automated behavior.
This could start with simple things like 'speed walk' to 'location' or 'forage' 'item' within 'coordinate loop'.
Some of this can already be done with custom modding which I will be looking into.
Potentially, this feature could be integrated in the game directly through crafting.
Relatedly, my main concern with modding is that the game is written in C++ and when making even simple changes, while dealing with manual memory, it is very easy to break things.
To that effect, I think that integrating some kind of api with a scripting language would make this easier.
I have not done this before but I am familiar with Python and I believe it would work.
All input is appreciated from a gameplay perspective, but I am particularly interested in what current modders familiar with the source code think.
I don't mod and I haven't actually looked at the source yet but I keep hearing about people wanting to change features, or bring back the rift, or remove culture restricted biomed etc
It occurred to me that all of these things are possible by hosting one's own server -- or so I think?
If people want to make changes I think they should host such a server and then the player base can decide where they want to play.
sorry brain fart here it is https://sharefast.me/6M
you can just edit the one update file as has been explained but here is the exe again anyway for 24 hours
sharefast.me/Z2
this is the fixed exe
https://sharefast.me/5B
In new towns its important to feed as many mouths as possible each cook
Pies, as joe pointed out, are important because they create three food units per pie and there are multiple pies for yum multiplier
Pies are as follows:
berry
carrot
rabbit
mutton
berry carrot
berry rabbit
berry carrot rabbit
rabbit carrot
Other high yield foods include:
popcorn (grow corn, use sharp stone or flint on it to shuck, let it dry, put in bowl, use on fire)
green beans (plant beans and then use a bowl on them before they go dry)
turkey (shoot turkey, use flint on turkey, put on plate, put in oven [always last cause it takes forever] slice with knife)
turkey broth crock (after a turkey is done you put all the bones on the bone plate, put in a crock, fill with bowl of water, light kindling, wait for coals, place crock on coals)
stew crock (plant squash, put squash on plate, smash with axe, put chunks in crock
add dried corn kernels by putting a dried corn in a bowl and using flint on it then add to crock
soaked beans -- you fill a bowl with dried beans picked individually
use round stone on it to crush, use crushed bean bowl on a plate, use bean plate on bowl now they are cleaned
now fill another bowl with water and use water bowl on bean bowl, then use an empty bowl on the water-bean bowl now they are soaked
add soaked beans to crock
add water bowl to crock
put stew crock onto hot coals just like soup
Turkey is easily the best thing making hunting very high yield
You can also shoot and butcher wild mouflon and wild boar for pork and mutton (butchering requires a knife)
Mutton is used for pies and can be cooked directly in the oven, pork can be put in a bowl and cooked over coals to make carnitas
You can also use mouflon hides as clothing
You can also shoot and skin wolves to make wolf hats, which are apparently the best hats for warmth (warmth makes your hunger go slower)
You can also shoot canada geese which can be skinned and cooked directly in the oven for two bites which is also high yield
You can gather canada goose eggs which can be made into omelets by putting a flat stone on coals then placing the egg on the hot stone and using a plate on the egg after
While out you can gather clay or make a stone hatchet and chop different branches into kindling
Bows and arrows can all be made from wild ingredients
You can also gather rope
Thread = milk weed used on milk weed
Rope = thread used on thread
Bow = grab yew branch, use sharp stone on yew branch, add rope
Arrow = cut sapling with sharp stone, use thread on sapling, click a canada goose to get feather, use flint on feather, add cut feather to tied shaft, use sharp stone on flint=arrowhead add that
Finally, another critical role is rabbit hunting
stakes = sharp stone use on straight branch from maple tree three times
snare = rope + stakes
baited stone = Find burdock root, use sharp stone on burdock root, put burdock root on a flat stone, use sharp stone on baited stone
rabbit = use snare on rabbit hole with rabbit, use baited stone on snared rabbit hole, wait
you skin rabbit with flint
rabbit meat can be put on a skewer and cooked over coals and is used for pies and the fur is used to make clothing, backpacks, pouches, and arrow quivers
Paradox you realize that some of those old villages are so far away that it is literally faster to craft everything then to go all the way to pick it (even with a truck)
With that in mind, I don't really see the point in a reboot because all of the map that is 10k+ east is already effectively gone.
I didn't realize you hate the roads so much (given that you paved a ton?) but even after a reboot that road will be rebuilt very quickly.
Paving thousands of tiles out in the middle of nowhere is no different that paving close tiles when you are born in the middle of nowhere.
I think you are blaming the roads for a problem that is really on the Eves. They keep going back to old towns, they often reliant on old gear.
But I don't even see much of a problem there either because a new has loads of work to be done that cannot be 'brought over'.
Buildings, farms, shelving, flooring, smiting.
If anything a quick truck drop is just a little boost of clothes and tools before they break or get lost in the woods.
I personally don't like trying to catch rabbits without a pack -- but that's just me.