a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Robot parts, probably
Outside = Survival, food burns at an increasingly high rate as more time is passed outside, without a clear plan of what to do you will die, so noobs that go outside without asking for help will consistantly die and expert players that dont plan with others and try to solo everything will make the village die.
Yeah. We could have a starter biome that is easy to initially survive in, but unsuitable for farming. And all the other biomes would be hot, cold, or dangerous, so you'd try to stay inside all the time.
Clothes could be like spacesuits, lol. You need one to go outside without instantly turning into ice, but you also need to take it off inside to avoid overheating.
This would make people build a lot, and also spend a lot of time together.
Functionally this would be like turning all outside work into hungry work.
Well, no, not really. You'd still be able to waste food by wandering outside and burning pips for no reason. And it wouldn't make the 80% more productive, they we'd just waste less.
We could have multiple towns per server, but with millions of tiles between them. And use something like planes for trading. AFAIK we still don't have trading, so it could even be an improvement
This thread has been a pretty wild ride though. I'm not sure I've ever seen an idea come from a player, get highlighted by a/the dev, have it go through rigorous hole-poking from much of the active forum community, and get released in a pretty tidily designed form only 7 calendar days after the initial idea post.
I'm totally mentioning it in my resume if I ever want to be hired as the idea guy, lol. Thanks, Jason :)
I wanted to throw an idea out there from an old RTS project I worked on. We had a similar setup where each player would choose their leader, and the server would figure out military ranks for everyone. Ranks came with real in game advantages, higher ranks could requisition team resources, and there was a functional chain of command where you would receive strategic commands from the player you followed, and issue commands to your followers.
Oh, interesting! Jason also added an order system a few hours after the main update. How did orders work in your game?
A question for you: how?
how does having a KING/BARON/WATHEVER makes any sense in the current game?
The idea was that it would help people coordinate.
I kinda want to agree with Wuatduhf: we need more time for the novelty to wear off and for the meta to adapt.
But assuming it won't get better, here's why:
1. Maybe keeping towns alive is not a problem for expert players at all. Towns die when there are no expert players there. 80% don't do anything.
2. Maybe a single expert player is not always enough. But even then training people is harder than doing it yourself.
Spoonwood resurrected an old thread, and I wrote a long comment before noticing that. But the problem is still here, and I think I found its root.
This is a game about parenting and civilization building. How come lineages do not last longer?
The easiest way for a lineage to survive is to go north forever. You need just three skills:
Walking
Eating berries
Feeding children
This is the optimal strategy. It's also the most boring thing in the game, you don't even need the tutorial. And bored people invent their own rules or quit the game altogether.
Parenting and civilization building are two separate activities. They are misaligned, one of them makes people quit, so everyone who haven't quit are doing the other one.
The game needs to remove the distinction between a lineage and a town. Caring about the lineage should be the same as caring about the town, and vice versa.
A family shouldn't be able to survive for long without a town, even with expert players. A naked Eve should be rushing to build a mud hut ASAP, hoping that she doesn't die to factors outside her control. There should be no cheese strategy that makes you win the lineage game by being more resistant to boredom than the players in the other lineage. The family and the town should be pushing for the next tech level, lest they run out of resources available to them at the current tech level and in the current location.
One civilization per lineage. Migrating to another town and starting from scratch should not be an option. Being an Eve should be the hardest thing possible.
One lineage per civilization. Sacrificing the family to keep the town habitable for the next Eve should not be an option.
With this in mind, there's what I think we could do.
Use the one Eve per server idea. This will prevent multi-family towns.
Make the wilderness super dangerous. Starting a new town should be harder than recovering. Leaving should be a death sentence.
To address the problem of a lineage running out of real life players, add a magical altar. It will spawn a single player once the server is empty, and require food to recharge.
There is another way. The trade-off between parenting and civilization building could be made into an explicit conflict and the central part of the game.
Every player would face the dilemma: sacrifice the needs of your own children, or sacrifice the greater good of the whole civilization.
Unfortunately I think all parents are literally brainwashed by their own genes and I'm totally on the side of the civilization here, so I don't know how to turn this into an interesting choice.
For what it's worth, here's my list of reasons people care about children.
The selfish gene. You have been born, therefore your parents probably really, truly wanted to have children, therefore you probably do too.
The needs of the civilization. Your civilization exists, so it probably has an ideology that manipulates people into having more children for it's farms, factories and armies.
Your own needs. The best friend is someone you personally built and customized to do what you want it to do. We can't do that yet, but growing one out of meat and training it is a good enough substitute.
A universal moral imperative. You lead a principled life and help everyone. But somehow you still prioritize your own children over Bob's.
An accident. There was no reason, it was equally probable for you to care about stamp collection.
oh wow didnt even realize
Oh. Oh well.
Is this still a problem though?
The longest line from this week was 2-3 days long: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5615710
Edit: moved to a new thread: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … ?pid=83346
It seems Wassers were alive 6 minutes ago.
The update doesn't really kill people by itself, right? It doesn't take very long to update and log in back.
Maybe it would help to temporarily stop food pips being depleted before and after the update. And/or show a splash screen explaining that you'll be able to log back in and continue playing real soon.
...Jason, do you by any chance have any friends who have worked as CEOs?..
I guess we also have ~0 veteran players with management skills right now.
It looks like we have veteran players who know what to do, but no way for them to teach other people?
Let's assume the hierarchy system will actually work, and Alice, a veteran player, will become everyone's leader. What would be the best way to organize a town full of noobs? Again, assuming that they only know basics but are willing to do what she tells them to do.
If ~30 minutes of teaching is not enough, and she'll get more done by doing everything on her own, then maybe we need to make training easier. What would be the perfect tool for teaching people really fast?
Kinrany, I do currently have the message being passed down... otherwise, what's the point? B/c they only pass when you are near someone, it wouldn't make sense for them to ONLY go to your direct followers and stop there. B/c they would only go to your direct followers when they were near you, and then you might as well tell them directly, right?
I mean, at least the direct follower hears the order first and can follow up with his own order.
But yeah, this doesn't solve the problem of splitting tasks very well anyway.
I think there's a risk of making hierarchies very flat. As if middle leaders were just proxies or an implementation detail, and only the king really mattered.
Ideally all rules would work as if you could only interact with your direct leaders and followers. Right now I think it's mostly true. For example, you could say that every character has a private "exiled" list, a private "redeemed" list, and a public, dynamically calculated "exiled" list based on the private lists and the leader's public list. Similarly, the list of allies is the leader's list of allies plus all of the followers.
This could be just a purposeless sense of purity though.
Could they have died earlier than people from your previous life? You might need to scroll a bit more. Otherwise try posting this in Bug Discussions in case it is indeed a bug.
Could they still be alive?
So, if you're standing right next to the king when he issues the order, you don't hear it until your baron or whatever gets to you? That seems kinda silly.
Would it be better if everyone would get the message within a radius of the issuer, but only immediate followers could spread it within their own radius?
Well, it does make sense for orders that need to be adapted for each branch. When the king says "collect milkweed", it may make sense for the baron to order someone to find a cart, instead of expecting everyone to just charge off into the wilderness with baskets and sharp stones at random.
I made a quite nice method for achieving and getting up in hierarchy. tongue But it's not full legal. Maybe I wrote about it later hmm.
Please do
Cars could be infinitely fast on the roads, but extremely slow on the ground. This way they're actually useful for long-distance travel along well-established routes, and it's really hard to lose them in the wilderness.
Are the leaders being drowned out by the noise, or is it just that their followers are roleplaying and don't actually listen?
However, I worry that it will be even more "noisy" than DING messages... a bunch of people repeating the same thing over and over? Yikes. Every time a new person walks into town, the message repeats, but everyone has to see it repeat again. The DING messages are shown to each person once only.
I think it would be less of a problem than it looks like, for two reasons:
1. It's very easy to recognize and ignore a line that you've already seen before. The more often it's repeated, the easier.
2. The leaders have full control over this.
It's also beneficial as a reminder, and it gives information to players that don't follow the same leader.
Another problem I see is that it's hard to tell whether something is an original thought or an automatic one.
(But again, same as real life: you don't know if you're being told an original idea. Except on Twitter, where retweets are explicit.)
Point is, orders shouldn't travel instantly everywhere. You should get the message over time, as you mingle with people. If you're out at the outpost, you shouldn't hear the news until you come back to town and see someone who knows the news.
If orders are sticky, the sticky note can be greyed out whenever the leader is too far.
Regarding being unable to escape from your mother's leader's messages as a baby, why did your mother have that leader if he was so annoying? Unless he was waiting to unleash his lunacy on YOU, the moment you were born. But yeah, I guess there would have to be some kind of baby unfollow if messages were unlimited.
TBH I still think it's fine for everyone to follow their mother by default. Making every grandma a Countess is only a problem of adding more titles, like Elder. And titles will not have the same meaning anyway.
That's pretty much how it works IRL: children are supposed to obey their parents for a long time, even when parents are downright crazy. This is a game about parenting, after all! At least in the game you are ready to walk away from the crazy family at 3, not 15.
Maybe it will piggy-back speech, so you have to run into someone and talk to them, or maybe just being within some distance of them will trigger it. You follow them? Do they have a pending order? Do you have that order? If not, then take the order, display it, and hold it for your followers.
For this to work in a sensible way, there can be only one order in each person's holding-slot at a time. It either came down from above, or you issued it yourself. And issuing your own order would override the order from above for whichever followers haven't heard it yet.
It could be reframed to be a bit more general.
Suppose that every person at any time has a thought they keep thinking about. They also mention that whenever they talk to anyone.
You don't want to actually repeat the same thing all the time, so the game can automate this process:
You can read someone's main thought on mouse-over. As if you were paying attention.
They say the thought aloud every time they meet a follower who didn't hear that thought before.
And yes, the follower replaces his own main thought with his leader's thought.
While I do not see guards, well... ever, I do see doctors all the time. If I don't see one, I make an effort to be that doctor. The problem is as soon as people are comfortable all they do is start griefing eachother and any kind of resource we can use to get ahead goes unused. And being a doctor that is healing morons killing each other and wasting pads that literally no one is making an effort to replace is just a massive waste of time.
Maybe the solution is to start killing people who are not working. Sounds harsh, but something has to give... although I suspect it would just play into more random griefing and killing and accomplish nothing in the end, so it wouldn't necessarily be worth it.
It seems the solution is to continuously kill off people who stir trouble. If people are comfortable, there are enough resources to keep a few guards.
This is probably harder than it sounds, because people who don't like this boredom will keep coming back.
But I'm assuming it's also too hard to organize. Why? Someone would say that we're missing some kind of social technology.
I keep thinking that this is a problem of high-tech things being significantly rarer than low-tech things.
That's not the case IRL. Computers are one of our most significant achievements, but electronic components are dirt cheap. The easier it is to use and support an invention, the greater the invention. Most unique technological marvels are unique because they're useless, except as scientific experiments.
The limiting factor is usually technology, not materials. We have a whole planet worth of materials, we just don't know how to use them effectively.
Crazy idea: use emoji in combination with names as custom markers.
Now, even the forums don't support emoji, and you obviously can't use emoji in the game, BUT THAT'S JUST DETAILS ok ok
To exile someone, the king just posts an order: " TIMMY".
And then everyone who follows the king sees the same emoji over TIMMY's head.
And you'd be able to use this in regular speech. Use a blue arrow emoji to point at someone, etc. In this case everyone who hears you, sees the marker.
And notes, and maps. The note could mention some object on the map. Though I'm not exactly sure how we could possibly name objects.
Also: the whole follower thing immediately made me think of chasing social media follows. Now you subscribe to their tweets too!
I wonder what would the world look like if we had to start from scratch, but with personal computers and the Internet?