a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
You are not logged in.
This update will not help new players learn how to play. It will teach them to uninstall OHOL.
Many people had issues with the way clothing and temperature were handled before the change. Just read through the post when Jason asked for community suggestions. People want clothes to matter. They want temperature to work in a logical way. They want to have a reason to build houses and make villages look like real villages instead of ugly junk piles. That's not the problem.
The problem is that taking away warm biomes as a viable option doesn't fix many of the problems with temperature and makes several of those problems much, much worse, especially for new players. Clothes still do not protect enough. Grasslands are still too cold. Buildings are still broken and impractical. The extreme temperature transitions are illogical and unintuitive.
People are not complaining because they are ungrateful or spoiled. We just want this game to be worth playing.
100% this. How can clothes be better if they don't help you at all compared to before? They only help with a huge threat which was added with the update, ie switching temps rapidly. You will still get biome temp over 30secs. This makes no sense, we are not lizards, if I wear a coat in the cold I will have significantly higher temp. Since most of the time you go out of the village you stay out for a few minutes, clothes do nothing for your temp compared to before. Buildings should be more important but you need like drape doors that you go through or something, so many people die trying to get inside rooms.
The jungle temp must have been changed later, that was not the case earlier in the day. I for sure saw my temp at max simply for being in the jungle. With this guy I expect anything. I mean he says in the post that players taking advantage of temp averaging, what he coded the game to do with your temp with his own fingers, wasn't what he wanted. So he didn't want what he did last time, maybe he didn't do what he wanted again this time with jungle temp. I will check tomorrow.
ZERO word in the post about the game-breaking temp shock that kills you in seconds, just because you could be walking down a road made yesterday that crosses a few biomes.
Brilliant.
According to Jason's post, jungles are now exactly as hot (bad) as the grasslands are cold (bad).
what post? that is inaccurate at least until earlier today, jungle is max temp, grassland isn't zero temp
Using he biomes to get better temp made standing in the village and communicating with people feasible. It allowed people to be at good temps when crafting or cooking. It allowed you to take a second to light your cigarette, open the door to someone or pick up the phone IRL if you needed. Now it is just a full stress game where most of the time you are running off trying to find wild foods. Using the biomes also allowed a village to survive, since a lot of people especially if new don't know what to do. Before this update, I remember tons of villages being doomed because it was too cold where they were placed and food run out. Now that is the best case scenario.
Other than that, during regular work you will still be freezing in the cold like you were before the update, regardless of the 7 rabbit furs and 6 milkweeds you spent to make them. Clothes don't help you with temperature at all, they just make change more gradual, so you don't die of the completely new and no-heads up offered heat shock, and if you have a place with good temp like a fire in a cold area, then you can keep that temp for a bit. But who has time to return to the fire kept in the center when you are doing all sorts of needed work? So clothes don't allow you to burn less food than before, just not need dramatically more food. So it is much harder than it used to be before the warm biomes were added, since walking through them now kills you.
You have this strange attitude, that because the game was difficult and bad before, it is okay that it becomes difficult and bad again. But before it was because items and concepts had't been added yet. Now it is being made deliberately bad for no explained reasons. If clothes had to become important, add more types, more materials to make them, and buff them, don't make it so that people die over a couple of seconds. By the way, so so many players used to die because they didn't get the temp system before, wore clothes in the desert, or didn't stand in the cold when mosquito bit. Those things didn't happen all the time though. Now the noobs are covering the map with bones.
I couldn't agree more with Rage with pretty much everything... storage and space management are a nightmare, and the more people get involved the worse. Instead of fixing that (for example, why can't I put plate/bowl stacks in boxes? Ever heard of cupboards?) lets instead make everyone have to craft indoors with a lit fire so there is never enough firewood or space!
Most villages would get griefed early, most cities get constantly griefed to the point that only outcrops survive and repopulate. But why fix that, like buffing cursing, allowing us to mark someone to keep an eye on them when everyone looks the same, or stating who murdered someone on the bloody bones, or just automatically banning someone who wakes up bears all the time for a while, anything! No, lets make griefing super easy now since nobody has any time to watch anything other than their food bar!
There is a severe problem with communication in the game, you rarely had a chance to teach someone anything or create any connection with people in your village. Now everyone is dying, the bones take up more space than the town itself, even the few people you barely talked with are dying left and right right next to food or a door three people are trying to open! You can never chat because everyone is freezing! By the time you type something the person you wanted to talk to is either dead or trying to find food.
This update is so awesome, that a bunch of people died in the middle of their Eve villages with tons of food all around them! Isn't it sweet, to have extreme temp shock that is like being mosquito bit and standing in the heat, which you can get four times crossing five tiles so that you insta die? In a map where regions are auto-generated and biomes can take up one tile, isn't it just a super genius idea to have temperature shock between cold and warm tiles? Best part, just add the update and not tell anything about it to anyone! It has been 24h and no official post yet explaining anything. Just thumbs up, amazing performance here.
Isn't it awe inspiring? What a great update isn't it. I really wonder if Jason ever joins the game as a regular player to see the nightmare he created with this update. The number of bones is just staggering.
You need a closed nursery, or babies will need to press F by the time the previous F fades, you die in a few seconds, it is just mad. Everywhere else, it is practically impossible to do it indoors. A building on its own is useless from what I understand, you need all the elements mentioned previously.
People keep saying clothes make things better. Do they, really? They save you from the shock, but how many things take so little time, you won't reach the biome's true temperature? Clothes only shield for a while. But this is insane. If a human wears warm gear, they can go walking in the snow for hours or doing winter sports and never feel cold. It is unreasonable that your temperature will always over time revert to the temp of your environment. Before you could depend on some carrots when going for rabbits, or on finding wild berries if food was low. Now all wild food sources are eaten until quite far out.
Still, the warmer biomes have become just impossible to cross into, because their base heat is 100 and you will always revert to it over time. When you enter the jungle, how can you be better off with clothes for thirty seconds? When it is hot, the external heat isn't what kills you, its not that you are being cooked. Instead, it is your body not being able to get rid of its own heat fast enough. So someone with a full rabbit suit running around the jungle being better off than someone naked is just... its insane. Deserts being as hot as jungles, the supposed "ideal biome" when it was added, also makes no sense. People have lived for thousands of years in jungle tribes with no clothing, while living in the desert was always difficult and required desert-appropriate clothes that block the sun and allow for more airflow. Instead of jungles being maybe hotter than before and deserts requiring some equipment (equivalent to visiting snow), now within 30 seconds desert and jungle is the same as being bit by mosquito. How does this make sense?
I have been quite excited about this game, put in hundreds of hours, but It really feels hopeless playing now.
I lost my eve camp on server three after hours of play i was surrounded by food and could not eat fast enough. I am not going to go off like i really want. I am going to give the creator time to fix this. But if this is permanent I want a refund.
My friend I had the exact same experience. my private camp crossed 2-3 biomes and the temp changes killed me *while baking and literally holding food*. I had had full pips half a minute ago. I felt the exact same sentiment - this is money wasted.
People keep saying clothes are important now and that is good. That is a ridiculous statement. Clothes are only important so you don't die from extreme temp shock when you change biomes, since jungles' and deserts' normal temp is now the same as being bit by mosquitoes and standing on lava. But clothes don't help you keep temp for more than a few seconds. If you stay in the biome for more than a half minute (which you normally have to) you are screwed. So all hot biomes are now worse than snow, and all cold biomes are super cold. You are supposed to have some place with perfect temp that you return to every minute? That is completely unreasonable. Adults cannot possibly do that. You can't have everything indoors with fires blazing. Some places make a nursery that keeps the fire but it can take ten seconds to get in because four people are clicking on the two doors at the same time. The result is that clothes prevent extremely fast death for maybe thirty seconds. Otherwise you are screwed. People are not lizards though. We don't get our temp from the outside. It makes no sense.
This makes surviving challenging to say the least. The cities are mostly graveyards for 10-20 tiles out. No wild food is left in any direction in any reasonable distance that someone with 4-5 pips can get to. You might find bushes with a recently regenerated berry but that is it. You can achieve maybe 1/4th of what you used to because of the constant need for food. Griefers are having the time of their lives. You have no opportunity to look around because you are always starving or rushing to do something before you are starving. People still get stabbed now and then, but that was actually not that common since all noobs die. Like, actually. All of them. No noobs make it to ten that I know of. Most of the noobs in the nursery when I was growing up I saw die trying to get back in by the time I was six or seven.
Still, so many nice ways to grief now that nobody has time to look around. The smithing hammer was missing until we found it behind a tree. By the time we did that the kindling was hidden. Items just kept missing. All sheep always shorn, for forever and ever. Rabbits are almost all griefed. In a town with savanna on two sides with 50+ rabbits, there were none when I was born and none when I died.
Anyone who thinks this is playable, really playable, not just survive on tryhard mode and make sure not to cross biomes when older, you are delusional.
Check it, this entire line survived because i spawned 5 daughters and kept my ass warm and belly filled while in my fertile years. They're in gen 22 now, does this look unplayble to you?
just because tryhards, old players, people with the mod make it doesn't mean it is playable. I can survive too. Doesn't mean it isn't unreasonable.
could someone run a private server with the previous version of the game?
Next up, griefers hiding clothes to doom villages and getting all rabbit holes abandoned.
plus people will kill all wild mufflon at a reasonable distance for their hides, then when the pen gets griefed the town will be over
shoes are the only item that has no non-decaying options. Other than that you can wear three items on you. from the wiki:
Rabbit Fur Hat 21.25% two rabbit furs
Rabbit Fur Coat 29.75% four rabbit furs
Rabbit Fur Loincloth 17% one rabbit fur
Mouflon Hide 21%
Reed Skirt 12%
Straw Hat 16.25%
So if you wear the never decaying mufflon hide, straw hat and reed skirt you get to ~40% insulation. With all rabbit equivalents you can get to almost 70%. But for rabbits the coat is the most expensive one. You could wear a loincloth and hat for three furs that can be more sustainable and with mufflon hide you get to ~60% which is pretty good.
I suspect running the sheep pen will become a full time job in larger villages because you will need so much more thread, plus you can always try to initially clothe everyone with (also non-decaying) sheep hide. People will kill all the wild mufflon close to cities to get clothed, probably dooming a few. Killing the mufflon inside the pen will become much more common. If you establish a pen, griefing it will become equivalent to cutting all juniper trees - it will kill cities. Since all wild mufflon close by will be dead, you will have to travel far to kill a mufflon, to the point that it becomes impossible to bring the baby back.
I think if you grief smaller places people band together and curse you. The larger the village, the fewer people notice or care, or assume people are dying for RP reasons, or just don't consider it a threat to them.
I was looking at the server logs from server 5 to find my coordinates, and something has to be wrong. I played a few games on a specific location which doesn't show up at all. The population count keeps jumping around. There are tons more births than deaths.
Help?
I am confused, if you run out of carrot seeds now how is the village not over? If noobs keep crashing the berries, how is the village not over? What safety net is there in the current system? It is really easy to run out of resources now, and griefers are taking advantage. Just keep shearing all the sheep and eating berries as an adult and you will see how easy it is to crash a village.
Its an intended game feature change that completely rewrites heat. You reported it without bothering to research much on why was it made or how was it intended to work. And maybe worse, without doing testing or letting the community try to adapt. Jason does and always have wanted heat to be something we strive for. For it's security to be expensive, not something you can simply acquire by dumping kids in biome borders.
But sure, go calling people with 460 commits to this communiy a kid and a troll after asking them for evidence of claims they didnt make. Specially when you're the one making heavily assertive staatements concerning a feature change you don't understand (were you even around here the time Jason posted about heat? You just barely registered here ffs)
You say it yourself, how it was *intended* to work, not how it works. Jason himself said it is incomplete but idgaf. This person said a couple of simple obvious things, and you respond with "I've been here longer". Congrats.
with people establishing eve villages for themselves, it is certainly possible to get other people to join in and visit your place as babies. However since if you die you lose your place it is quite risky and probably better if they are someone you know already.
I broke out once (just made ax and shovel) but it took me some time because I was learning smithing for the first time.
I went to the tutorial area above me and freed someone who had spawned as a girl. She said ty and took off her shirt to show me tits as thanks, lol, I don't even.
Is it still possible to Eve spawn in the tutorial area??
if you really want to return, your best bet would be to walk towards it over two or three lives. There is a program, OLCoordinates, which tells you how far you are from where you spawned, which should come in handy to keep track of your locations. I think it isn't really worth it to try and make a horse cart at a random location, you will be making a new village in effect. I was lucky when I lost my eve chain, found someone else's advanced village and could easily make a horse cart to get home the next day.
The eve spiral means that new Eves spawn in a spiral around a central point. Since a lot of people make a village close to where they spawn, if you spawn as Eve, and you head NW, or NE, or SW, or SE there is a 1/4 chance you will find someone's village because you are heading towards the center of the spiral. In a depopulated server, you will also probably spawn to the next spot of the spiral after your own village, so there should also be a 1/4 chance you get back to where you were.
As mentioned by others, randomly starving kids in a functioning town is just cruel. You can't really know if someone is going to help later over a few seconds, especially since babies can't really communicate or might be having a slow load. If they don't communicate at all though I will abandon them. If they move around and don't communicate, even worse. If you are running out of food, you don't always have enough wild food sources nearby, so I don't think it is a real alternative most of the time, and sacrificing babies can be reasonable. When the bushes get overwhelmed, so does composting, and any compost being made ends up getting used on the graying berries, starting a vicious cycle of starvation and lack of soil.
Many of the issues discussed with people feeding babies in towns is because moms almost never take the time to educate. That noob that keeps feeding berries to babies, if not a griefer, was probably abandoned as a baby a bunch of times and never even learned how to take care of the berry farm, he doesn't even realize the cost of what he is doing. I see lots of people who just stand around, not sure what to do in bigger cities. They think everything is being handled when a few people might be racing to restore stability. A lot of people seem to just complete the tutorial by going in the snake pit and then have no clue how to do anything in a town other than eat.
Anyways, when having a baby I always need them to talk so I can see they are responsive. I tell them about not eating until four-five tiles empty, and that foods other than berries give more pips. I then tell them berries are only for little kids, old people and sheep and to make other foods when they get older. I hold them when going to get food and show them where stew, pies etc are. Even if they say they are not new I still ask if they want to learn anything when they become three. If you do it this way some people try to learn how to make stew or pies.
If a baby misbehaves in any way though, I will very easily abandon. I will put them at a good tile and tell them not to move because it means more food required for me, if they don't follow them screw them. If someone doesn't say thanks or ask to help at all I usually get suspicious, but it is too late by then.
My internet died on me while creating my little village on server 5, and I lost my eve spawn. Trying to find my way back, I stumbled upon a village with a sign reading Wotte Studio. Since there is a plane in it I assume the person who created it is probably still playing.
Your town is a great base while I try to find my way back. I will try to take care of the place and hopefully leave by tomorrow. I hope you don't mind!
I recently made a village almost entirely in jungle. I was lucky because there was a relatively large open area so I didn't need an ax right away. Try to establish yourself close to the edge of the jungle, so you can slowly fill it out from one end. In the beginning I used soil to cover a large part of land. Later I just used milkweed seeds. Milkweed is ideal to completely cover the jungle since you can generate as many seeds as you want very easily and they don't decay. I just completely filled the jungle with seeds, 10 tiles deep. Now I plan to plant more milkweed on the edges, so that I can fill out all the jungle and force them on some corner. You can then use all those ropes you will be farming to make pine walls and secure them out of your camp.
I think there is a lot of value to the current system on the depopulated servers. It is very rewarding to play on your own for a bit and the only way to really learn how to do everything in the game. Plus when griefers keep ruining your fun on the big server it is bliss to return to your own quiet village.
I really like in the OP the idea that any changes would apply if the server population is above some limit (say 40 people) so that this kind of play can be preserved.
I also think that if allowed, with more and more experienced players getting tired of griefing on the main server, the depopulated ones can offer some very interesting opportunities to keep people playing the game. I was reading for example that on server 12 there is a large road connecting such towns, making it possible to more easily find your way back if you get lost and creating a community.
If there are fertile women when you join, you could always play as their child if both didn't mind, and with something like a large connecting road, even visit your village later. If the mother is suspicious she can always not feed, or if the baby just wants to go to their eve spawn they can /die. So you can be with other players if you want and alone if you don't.
With the planes update, especially if the landing strips became permanent, someone could make a few of them and create a "town center" for the server so that if you are bored you can just fly there and talk with others. Over time, you could add new items like a truck, that would allow for trade.
This game is a lot of fun when played collaboratively and the eve spawn mechanic helps in that regard outside of the main server.