One Hour One Life Forums

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

Jason is the author of the OHOL universe.

No, he is not.  He's the author of the code.  The code is the author of the OHOL universe.  The code doesn't work how he thinks it does also.

https://i.ibb.co/82f9YZc/4.png

Jason also isn't the author of what characters speak, nor what they make in the OHOL universe.  The objects that they craft, the text that gets typed, and the actions that they do are also part of that universe.  So again, no, he's not the author of the OHOL universe in it's entirety.  And the code runs the system.  That code is not him.

You can close your eyes like Pepe, Dodge.  But, that suggests that you would rather not see how things work and develop a consistent perspective from there.  Those who close their eyes end up blind to truth in plenty of other cases.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-11-06 19:38:20)

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

Dodge

Member

Registered: 2018-08-27

Posts: 2,467

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

You can close your eyes like Pepe, Dodge.  But, that suggests that you would rather not see how things work and develop a consistent perspective from there.  Those who close their eyes end up blind to truth in plenty of other cases.

Here's a video that could be interesting to you:

Aspergers Syndrome: The Challenge of Reading Facial Expressions

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

You can close your eyes like Pepe, Dodge.  But, that suggests that you would rather not see how things work and develop a consistent perspective from there.  Those who close their eyes end up blind to truth in plenty of other cases.

Here's a video that could be interesting to you:

Aspergers Syndrome: The Challenge of Reading Facial Expressions

Oh look, another non-psychologist using something to refer to 'aspergers' or 'autism' *on the basis of mere text* so that they can avoid having to think about what got said, or respond with a counterargument.  It isn't like using non-professional diagnosis has ever gotten used to distract from thinking about something before.  Why would people get better and start to consider what they said or treat their ideas with thought?  Why would people like Dodge ever stop trying to manipulate others?

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

DestinyCall

Member

Registered: 2018-12-08

Posts: 4,563

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

No, he is not.  He's the author of the code.  The code is the author of the OHOL universe.  The code doesn't work how he thinks it does also.

https://i.ibb.co/82f9YZc/4.png

Jason also isn't the author of what characters speak, nor what they make in the OHOL universe.  The objects that they craft, the text that gets typed, and the actions that they do are also part of that universe.  So again, no, he's not the author of the OHOL universe in it's entirety.  And the code runs the system.  That code is not him.

I'm afraid you have misunderstood what I was saying.   I am not talking about the game code and all that.   I am talking about world-building.  Story-telling.  In-universe explainations.   Compared to some games, OHOL has very little official story.   Most of the history and mythology is player-generated.   But there do exist a few points of canonical back-story and those all come from Jason.

The link that you posted is an excellent example of what I am talking about.   But I think you cut off the quote too soon.   Jason's post was a direct response to players who assumed this game was set in the past or in a post-apocalyptic future.  And his response was "you are wrong".

The game takes place in the realm of thought experiments.

It is "in the future," because the thought experiment is about the future.

But this world is obviously not earth.... it is 50,000x bigger than earth, and it has no oceans.  So there was no apocalypse here.  There are no ruins.

The world is the imaginary space inside which this thought experiment plays out:

"If we had to start over from scratch, but kept all of our knowledge, how long would it take us to get back to iPhones?" where iPhones are a placeholder for whatever sufficiently advanced tech we can imagine.

But that thought experiment involves survival too, which is one of the things that would slow us down.  We have to eat, and keep warm, and fend off natural threats, and have babies to keep the civilization going.  Obviously, we wouldn't get back to iPhones in one generation.  It would take hundreds of years.  Might it take thousands of years?  Might it take longer the second time around than the first?  Maybe the knowledge doesn't help.  Maybe it was all about bootstrapping infrastructure.  Might we never get there the second time around?  Maybe we'd lose the thread.  Maybe all the "right place at the right time" moments wouldn't play out the same way.  Maybe retreading the same ground is impossible.

All that said, so far, this game has been a pretty lousy embodiment of that thought experiment.  The answer is that people get back to diesel engines in a generation or two!

In recent times, I've been throwing in a few monkey wrenches that make failure more likely.  But I've always been somewhat disappointed that the progress up through 3000+ craftable items didn't take longer....

In the end, the thought experiment seems to have been an inspiration point for a game that ended up not really being about that thought experiment.

The other thing the game is about is the deep mystery of civilization.  How did we get here?  What guided us here?  How do we cooperate across generations?  How do we make sense of the world we inherit?  Who were these people who built all this stuff, and why did they build it, and what were their intentions?

That mystery is part of the "tech progression" thought experiment.  The "it might take longer, or even never happen at all" hypothesis embodies that mystery.  We don't know how the hell we actually got here.  We tell stories about it, but we don't really know.

Anyway, the game ended up being a pretty solid embodiment of that mystery, so that's good.  In the end, the mystery is far more interesting than the tech progression thought experiment.  The thought experiment is just a question that spurs various answers.

The mystery is the unfathomable foundation of our being as people.

After reading Jason's thoughts on the subject, you could go on believing that OHOL is set on Earth after we nuked ourselves back to the stone age, but your head-canon would be wrong.   Jason says so.   

So what does that have to do with nipple spaghetti?

Nothing.   I just like to say nipples.   It is a silly word.   Nipple, nipple, nipple, nipple.

And what does it have to do with white supremacy?

Also nothing.  That is just your head-canon from when you imagined how the translator power might work in-universe.

And what does that have to do with what I actually said earlier?

Gosh, that was a long time ago.   Hang on, let me go check.

We can't really know which of these ideas is "right" because vanillas are not real people and "universal translator" is not a real ability that people can possess.  It is essentially a super-power and it could work in whatever way Jason wanted to describe it working, if he ever chose to describe how it works in OHOL.

Basically, universal translator power is magic.   Just like property fences are magic.   Just like expert waystones are magic.   Just like posse mechanics are magic.   

And magic can pretty much do whatever it wants.

We know that these game mechanics work the way that they work because Jason coded them into the game.   But there is no in-universe explanation for how they work inside the world of OHOL, so we are free to interpret things as we like (within reason).  We can't say for sure of OHOL women find it upsetting that their ovaries stop working when they walk too far north or south.  Or how they explain "yum" to their children.   The only real clues we have are Jason's musings and the occasional joke post.

That is what I meant in my post.   If Jason decides to step in and say that the universal translator power does not make vanillas any smarter than non-vanillas ... or that it makes them all super geniuses ... he has that power. 

Until that time, I am free to assume that white people can barely manage to tie their own shoelaces because they are all so focused on solving substitution ciphers in their head for fun.   You cannot prove that they are not.

Dodge

Member

Registered: 2018-08-27

Posts: 2,467

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

You can close your eyes like Pepe, Dodge.  But, that suggests that you would rather not see how things work and develop a consistent perspective from there.  Those who close their eyes end up blind to truth in plenty of other cases.

Here's a video that could be interesting to you:

Aspergers Syndrome: The Challenge of Reading Facial Expressions

Oh look, another non-psychologist using something to refer to 'aspergers' or 'autism' *on the basis of mere text* so that they can avoid having to think about what got said, or respond with a counterargument.  It isn't like using non-professional diagnosis has ever gotten used to distract from thinking about something before.  Why would people get better and start to consider what they said or treat their ideas with thought?  Why would people like Dodge ever stop trying to manipulate others?

Well if you cant recognize the facial expression of an emote that by itself is exagerated for emphasis it tells me that this video might be very relevant to you, did you watch it?

"Why would people get better and start to consider what they said or treat their ideas with thought?" Very ironic

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

That is what I meant in my post.   If Jason decides to step in and say that the universal translator power does not make vanillas any smarter than non-vanillas ... or that it makes them all super geniuses ... he has that power.

I don't agree on this point.  Races have attributes, when there exist more than 15 players on a server.  Those attributes determine some things.  Jason could not rationally say that whites have more physical power than other races for example.  Sure, he could say that.  But, it would come as completely lacking in fact, and thus not rational. 

He also couldn't rationally say that blacks have more ability to understand non-black languages than whites have the ability to understand non-white languages.  Because, neither of those could fit the facts, and would make for implausible interpretations.  Now he could change the code, and then make those sorts of claims, of course and speak rationally.  But, there does exist some objective reality here which he can't just decided by fiat.

Perhaps as a more clear example he couldn't rationally claim that the characters which are children of Eves give birth to the characters which are Eves.  Again, there exists some objective reality of things here which he can't just decide is true by fiat.  And there exists some objective reality which makes some possible claims that he could make false.

Until that time, I am free to assume that white people can barely manage to tie their own shoelaces because they are all so focused on solving substitution ciphers in their head for fun.   You cannot prove that they are not.

I don't disagree with you there.  But, I also see every reason to assume that all of the characters in OHOL can't manage to tie their shoelaces, because none of the shoes in the game have laces so far as I can tell.  Though I guess you might plausibly argue that some of the footwear has laces, so I don't object that you think that about whites.  But, I would say that if such does hold for whites, than it holds for all other characters of different races in the game also.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-11-07 03:12:56)

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

Here's a video that could be interesting to you:

Aspergers Syndrome: The Challenge of Reading Facial Expressions

Oh look, another non-psychologist using something to refer to 'aspergers' or 'autism' *on the basis of mere text* so that they can avoid having to think about what got said, or respond with a counterargument.  It isn't like using non-professional diagnosis has ever gotten used to distract from thinking about something before.  Why would people get better and start to consider what they said or treat their ideas with thought?  Why would people like Dodge ever stop trying to manipulate others?

Well if you cant recognize the facial expression of an emote that by itself is exagerated for emphasis it tells me that this video might be very relevant to you, did you watch it?

Why would I watch it?  I didn't ask for your help here Dodge.  I don't think I needed it either, and I don't think you were trying to help me to begin with also.

"Why would people get better and start to consider what they said or treat their ideas with thought?" Very ironic

You didn't say anything in the comment where you put the Pepe face Dodge.  So, there is no irony on my part in this case.

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

Cogito

Member

Registered: 2020-03-09

Posts: 192

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

It is interesting to consider how the in-game characters view their relative intelligence, even more so knowing that none of them have figured out how to use both their hands at the same time.

FishRfriendsnotfood

Banned

Registered: 2018-06-17

Posts: 158

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

when will you ever evolve spoon.

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I'm fish, deal with it or don't, idgaf

DestinyCall

Member

Registered: 2018-12-08

Posts: 4,563

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

Major evolutionary change can take millions of years, so it might take a while.

NoTruePunk

Member

Registered: 2019-01-25

Posts: 321

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

It is interesting to consider how the in-game characters view their relative intelligence, even more so knowing that none of them have figured out how to use both their hands at the same time.

If you think supremacy has anything to do with actual ability you've already bought into the lie.

Cogito

Member

Registered: 2020-03-09

Posts: 192

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

It is interesting to consider how the in-game characters view their relative intelligence, even more so knowing that none of them have figured out how to use both their hands at the same time.

If you think supremacy has anything to do with actual ability you've already bought into the lie.

It's more that I imagine these characters are barely even aware of each other, let alone aare of each other's relative intelligence. They haven't even realised they can use both hands at once.