a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Don't even get me started on ice cream.
Does Jason just hate fun? Serious question.
Yes, Jason hates fun. You may only enjoy things from his point of play and if it's not fun then you're playing the game wrong.
Worlds oldest SID baby.
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Here is an incomplete list of items that require access to a specialty biome. These items are hard or impossible to make if you are born the wrong color, so they could be traded or desired as trade items .... if we could communicate more easily with other families. But we cannot.
Desert family specialization:
Horses
Sulfur
Alum
Cinnabar/red dye
Lapis lazuli/blue dye
Niter
Glasswort/glass
Wine glass/bottle
Sand
Cactus fruit
Snakeskins/snake skin boots
Froot boot
Jungle people specialization:
Latex
Sugar-cane/sugar
Tomatoes
Peppers
Mango fruit/Mango leaf
Yellow paint
Oil
Bannanas
Vinegar
Ketchup
Pumpkin pie
Peppercorn/ground pepper
Yellow Fever
Tundra people specialization:
Oil/kerosene
Sealskin/sealskin coat
Penguins
Snow walls
Snowfloors
Snowmen
Snow
Rosebushes
Fishing/artic char
Gold/Gold Bell/bell tower
Translator family specilization:
Snark
Existential dread
Alcoholism
And then there are those extra "special" things that require access to multiple specialty biomes, like the radio, tattoos, ice cream, and feast table, just to name a few.
No wonder this game feels like it needs some fresh content. A good chunk of the existing content is race-locked.
Last edited by DestinyCall (2021-07-03 06:06:39)
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I couldnt agree more with that sentiment destiny. I always felt like biome restrictions functioned in a similar way to tool slots. A barrier to slow down progression or make advancement more difficult. Some level of abrasion can be good, but both of those worked as hard barriers locking out our ability to perform. It made things more annoying and more difficult just for the sake of slowing us down. So we didnt advance too quickly and so jason could stay "one step ahead of us" to quote the trailer. If someone is outrunning you, cut off their legs, in other terms.
I have yet to meet anyone who "enjoys" biome restrictions who experienced the game before they were added. Jason could have spent the last two years developing and adding content instead of dramatically uprooting and disabling many core elements of this game. But hes got this weird ideal where he wants this game to be "hardcore". Which it is, and anyone who isnt familiar with the game will see it that way. As much as jason doesnt play the game, he knows how it works better than anyone. He built the house, he just doesnt live in it. So to him it all makes perfect sense. He has no perspective on how difficult this game is for new players.
So he puts layer upon layer of convoluted mechanics on top to make things "interesting". Because having an inaccessible crafting system wasnt enough. Struggling to balance food with learning wasnt enough. He had to make it near impossible for the community to teach, thrive, and have fun. Things being difficult can be good, it can feel more rewarding when you overcome those obstacles. But if you put too many in front of someone and run them ragged, all they are going feel is tired and jadded. Which i think is evident within our community.
I used to love teaching, still do, but when i see a town dying and things falling apart im compelled to fix it. So others can survive and possibly have the opportunity to teach in the future. Its feels monotonous. Just the rabbit change killed a lot of our ability to teach. It was easy to teach new players how to hunt rabbits, grow wheat, and make pies. It served as a strong backbone to keep society stable so teaching could happen. But with the change (adding bait) there is too much upkeep and complexity to the system to make it accessible to new players. Along with that lack of food stability putting society at constant odds with survival.
He had a good thing going, but its pretty clear he cant stand us actually thriving in any sense. He thinks it makes the game more interesting, but all its done is make things more painful, monotonous, and hopeless. When everything is built to fail what is there to fight for? Why even put in the effort when you know it was doomed from the start. No matter how hard you work, towns will die, families will die. All the while we kill ourselves in order to make the game remotely accessible to each other.
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Yeah, the addition of bait to rabbit hunting was a huge blow to teaching new players how to hunt rabbits. I used to take my children with me when I hunted for rabbits. I would talk to them and explain the ways of the rabbit hunter. Meanwhile, I would often clothe them in rabbit pelts so they would return to the village fully decked out in hunter gear. It was a relatively simple and beneficial activity that anyone could do. It was almost always a GOOD thing for someone to hunt rabbits, since it supplied food and clothing at the cost of time and clothing decay insured that more rabbit skins were always needed eventually.
After the bait-change, rabbit hunting was no longer an accessible option for noobs. Not only is it harder to do, but it costs the village carrots and berries. So before you go rabbit-hunting, you must first determine if the village is in a position to support a rabbit hunter. If water is tight or the village is too young, hunting rabbits could cost resources that the village was not in a position to supply. Finding wild burdock as an alternative to berry/carrot bait is a good early game option, but the limited view available to vanilla client users combined with a new player's unfamiliarity with hungry drain and yum-chaining means that it is seriously dangerous to send a new player off to hunt for rabbits alone. Add in generational food decay and the lack of natural food, like berry bushes, to supplement your hunger bar while away from the village and you have a receipt for disaster on multiple levels. Instead of showing them how it was done and encouraging them to hunt for bunnies when it looked like bunnies might be needed, I would need to explain about water economy, limited carrot supplies, the cost of using a bowl of berry/carrot for compost vs fur production, etc. and also make sure that they are adequately provisioned to stay alive and healthy while away from the support of the village food net.
Rather than encouraging new people to wander off and die in the savannah, I stopped teaching people to hunt rabbits. It was too complex and hard to explain the optimal strategy without over-burdening a new person with too many different factors. Especially when you consider that non-decaying backpacks and fancy clothing means there is a limit on the number of rabbit skins that any village needs. At a certain point, you never need to hunt another bunny.
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Jungle people specialization:
Latex
Latex isn't something that exists as a specific object. Check onetech, and there's no 'latex'. It's a bucket of latex of some sort. There's liquid latex and coagulated latex and sulfured latex. The reason for the precision here lies in that it's often enough possible to go and find coagulated latex in some dead place or sulfured latex. In contrast, it's almost inconceivable that liquid latex would exist anywhere on some tree left around for someone to get it if needed. And only liquid latex works to rubberize wings.
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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I am not surprised that you are trying to nit-pick my list of trade items for spurious reasons, Spoon. It is what you do best.
But I am really surprised that you aren't questioning the inclusion of "penguins" as a potential trade good. Or yellow fever. I though those were much more likely to trigger you.
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But to speak directly to your point, yes, airplanes would be impossible to make without direct assistance from the jungle fam, even if you ignore the requirement for rubber and oil used in the engine. Definitely an end-game item.
If only there was a matching end-game purpose for building airplanes. Like radioes, sprinklers, and race cars, they seem to exist for no real purpose, other than using up extra iron and gas. Little more than a novelty item, in their current form.
It would be neat if building an airplane let you access previously inaccessible areas or reach new lands. Or something. Anything.
Back in the rift days, I had an idea for a world map redesigned around a series of interconnect rifts (or islands separated by deep water) that could be reached using planes or building bridges from both sides. It would let the accessible world-space be limited and easier for Jason to control while still allowing for exploration and discovery. And it would mean that when your family reached the end of the tech tree, they would have an incentive to fly off and start fresh in a new location. It would potentially solve some of the end-game stagnation that haunts this game when things are too stable, by providing an outlet and direction
The game mechanics have changed a lot since that time so it wouldn't work the same as it would have then without major modifications, but here is the original post about the idea for anyone who is interested:
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7653
Most importantly, this suggestion pre-dates biome restrictions. Access to all specialty biomes is necessary for airplane production. And you must build a plane (or bridge) to leave your home rift.
Last edited by DestinyCall (2021-07-03 17:55:15)
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I feel like Jason added race restrictions without putting much thought into it and now refuses to remove them because in his eyes, they do their job which was to encourage “trade”. And since there's people being forced to get resources from other towns, he thinks trade is working. No matter how frustrating it is for the players, no matter that dumping resources is not the same as “trading” them and no matter the fact that most use a third party mod (which shouldn't be allowed on the main server in the first place) to at least be able to communicate with each other and ask for help. It's even worse now because there have been no updates for months and people are stuck dealing with a broken mechanic in the meantime.
As much as jason doesnt play the game, he knows how it works better than anyone. He built the house, he just doesnt live in it. So to him it all makes perfect sense. He has no perspective on how difficult this game is for new players.
This is very true and also something that rubbed me the wrong way when Jason claimed to understand how new players feel because he doesn't play the game that much. Yes, he doesn't play it but he still knows how all those complicated mechanics are supposed to work that most new players never get to understand before they quit the game out of frustration. So in a way he gets the best of both worlds whenever he takes a peak into the game: not playing it long enough to feel the frustration that comes with being an experienced player trying to keep a town alive and at the same time not having to deal with being a confused noob who doesn't know how to do anything.
This would be much less of a problem if Jason had some people he actually trusts play the game and give him advice on what does and doesn't work but right now, it seems like he's getting tired of the game in general and just wants to wrap things up and move on.
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Yeah, race restrictions were a total rush job. It went from idea to implementation in less than a week. Literally no significant thought was given to the long-term impact of chopping out access to a quarter of the game's content. It is actually pretty amazing the game was still functional afterwards. As far as I can see, Jason made no changes to the tech tree to balance, except for requiring mangoes and rubber trees to be planted on jungle tiles only. Everything else was left as it was, no matter how stupid. I am looking at you, mango leaf.
OHOL only has seven biomes. Three of them are specialty-only. That is a big chunk of the map and a lot of unique resources. It might not be so bad if some care was taken to redistribute certain resources and add redundancies in a few key areas. Like moving horses to the prairie so travel between distant villages was better supported for all races. Or providing the vanilla whites an actual purpose in the game instead of being just a meme race.
I feel like such a broken record, always complaining that race restrictions are dumb. But damn, man ... they are. And they have not improved with age. Started out bad, never fixed, still bad.
Also still super racist. I really hate seeing a game that promotes the idea that the color of your skin determines your worth to society. That's just gross. But even completely ignoring that aspect, they don't work and never have worked to improve game-play, promote trade, or help the towns feel more distinct or interesting.
Total fail in my opinion. It was much better before. And the really sad thing is I was super excited to see Jason add more diversity and interest to the game by encouraging towns to develop in unique ways based on their unique environment. Jungle towns that build different kinds of structures and wear different clothing compared with the colder tundra snow villages, for example. That would be really cool and feel natural. What we got was such a cheap knock-off of what I imagined when I first heard the concept for family specializations. The disappointment still hurts.
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So we didnt advance too quickly and so jason could stay "one step ahead of us" to quote the trailer. If someone is outrunning you, cut off their legs, in other terms.
You got close to describe things well, but didn't quite hit the mark. If someone is outrunning "you", you aren't staying one step ahead of them. You're behind them. If "you" then cut off their legs, again, you aren't staying one step ahead of them, you're a coward (with respect to competing fairly in the race), a cheater, and quite possibly a criminal who has committed simple assault.
But, you emphasized the right point by talking about the trailer. Jason wasn't staying one step ahead of the player. Now, one can reasonably maintain that he couldn't do so always. Fair enough. And sure staying one step ahead of the players might not be the most important thing. However, being behind players and then deliberately sabotaging their progress isn't staying one step ahead of them. It's not adding content. It's not progressing the game. It's pretty much the opposite. It's making content less accessible and thus making the game more shallow instead of deepening it with more content. It's not progressing the game, it's regressing the game so that players get stuck on earlier objects. At least during arc restart before the stupidity of players moving trucks to towns who have just made a shallow well and the like kicks in. But that also wrecks any sense of progression, and the whole "stay one step ahead of the player" sure sounds like a game where progression has meaning, and instead of some sort of exercise in absurdity.
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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I am not surprised that you are trying to nit-pick my list of trade items for spurious reasons, Spoon. It is what you do best.
But I am really surprised that you aren't questioning the inclusion of "penguins" as a potential trade good. Or yellow fever. I though those were much more likely to trigger you.
A nit-pick concerns insignificant details. The difference between liquid latex and other forms of latex is not insignificant, as again, one might find sulfured or coagulated latex somewhere (unless it's arc restart). Thus resource exchange considerations and the language barrier might both get foregone for some people at least in some circumstances. With liquid latex it's almost inconceivable that anyone would find liquid latex on some jungle tree near a dead town. Anyone would pretty much need an alive person of the properly suited race to obtain liquid latex. The pain-in-the-ass (language) barrier is more of a hinderence.
Also, I didn't read through the whole list. I just saw latex and that stuck out to me, because I remember once trying to make a plane when my family was like 8k or so away from everyone else. Once I finally remembered the wings needed liquid latex, I was like "no... no way that this is possible."
Edit:
Oh... you were just responding to what you've perceived me as nit-picking in previous cases. Yeah, in this case, I'm sure I wasn't nit-picking, as the difference does imply a practical distinction.
Last edited by Spoonwood (2021-07-03 21:00:02)
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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Yea thats kind if what i meant. Obviously its not a good way to get ahead of someone. But if you disable them in some way so they cant run past you and they're forced to limp behind you it still results in the same result, staying ahead of them. Tool slots and race restrictions have always felt like this to me. Is it cheap? Yes.
I think jason took serious issue with our ability to progress towards the end of the rift. People were able to make planes and escape the rift within 24 hours of a reset. This resulted, in part, in the removal of the rift. Sour to the communities tenacity i believe jason devised ways to disable our ability to progress so quickly. Thus tool slots and race restrictions were born. At least thats my theory.
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But if you disable them in some way so they cant run past you and they're forced to limp behind you it still results in the same result, staying ahead of them.
Getting ahead of them, yes. Staying ahead of them, I'm not so sure, at least if 'staying' implies a constant state. Looking like you're keeping up with the players, yea, that sounds like it works.
That they were used a way to "slow players down" in contrast to "staying ahead of players" as promised in the trailer is suggested by Jason's comments here: http://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewto … 896#p81896
In recent times, I've been throwing in a few monkey wrenches that make failure more likely. But I've always been somewhat disappointed that the progress up through 3000+ craftable items didn't take longer
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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Yea, that's definitely a fair assessment and point of view. I agree its not the same and that it doesn't work fully. If anything this community has proven its ability to adapt no matter what's thrown at us. Jason should seriously just give up on the roadblocks. All we're going to do is jump over them eventually and in the process he's going to drive out community members who grow frustrated with the constant hoop jumping. As well as making the game incredibly inaccessible to new players.
On a counter point. I bet jason wouldn't be disappointed in how quickly we can progress through 10,000 craftable items. Like he mentioned years ago was his goal. If he had focused on expanding the crafting tree instead of throwing wrenches in the gears the game would be in a much better state than it is today. Even if it was small aesthetic items like more dyes and paint. Or minor advancements that only make a moderate amount of impact like advanced stoves, kilns, and ovens. He gets hung up on needing to be original but when we look at transportation he hasn't had much issue with making tiered versions of practically the same thing. Carts, horse carts, and trucks are all practically the same thing but perform completely differently (scale & speed) and give an overall sense of progression and reward for advancing. Same could be done for practically everything. At least then it would feel normal to have trucks and engines laying around next to advanced forges and kitchens. The juxtaposition of adobe kilns and ovens next to trucks, plows, pavers, and sprinklers is a bit nauseating. Plus there could be a bit more stability if advancements were made. Save us time and make us more efficient, so when we hit that late game tier we have more opportunity to teach and have fun together. Do projects that are less essential and just for fun.
Last edited by Gremlynn (2021-07-03 21:55:07)
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jasonrorher wrote:In recent times, I've been throwing in a few monkey wrenches that make failure more likely. But I've always been somewhat disappointed that the progress up through 3000+ craftable items didn't take longer
lol I had not seen that quote before and yikes … that just sounds like Jason is making the game harder on purpose because he got frustrated by people getting through the tech tree too quickly. Instead of expanding it or just accepting the fact that he won't be able to stay one step ahead of us forever. And I guess new players who already struggle with the game in the first place just don't matter then?
Aside from these questionable intentions, race restrictions are kinda achieving the opposite right now. Forcing Gingers to rush and get oil ASAP because everyone dies otherwise and encouraging people to dump trucks and engines in Eve towns instead of allowing them to progress naturally.
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Oh... you were just responding to what you've perceived me as nit-picking in previous cases. Yeah, in this case, I'm sure I wasn't nit-picking, as the difference does imply a practical distinction.
You have a well-documented habit of using pedantic arguments, but that wasn't why I described your post as nit-picky.
The distinction you made between different types of latex was relevant to the point you were trying to make about planes, but it doesn't represent a mistake or error in my list. Part of the problem is your first post lacked context. If you had started off by talking about your experience of attempting to build a plane far from other families, that would have been very helpful.
Instead, your post comes across as a criticism of the word "latex" in my list. It sounds nit-picky because you were trying to prove my word choice was wrong for an inconsequential reason. Yes, there is no item called "latex" in the game. No, that doesn't matter. The meaning of "latex" is clear and applies equally to all the possible forms of latex - liquid, coagulated, sulfured, oiled, you name it. It isn't necessary to make this distinction in my list of goods, because latex already covers all those in-game items.
You could have made essentially the same post without the "fact-checking" and it wouldn't sound nit-picky at all. Something like:
"On a related note, it is often enough possible to go and find coagulated latex in some dead place or sulfured latex, but it's almost inconceivable that liquid latex would exist anywhere on some tree left around for someone to get it if needed. And only liquid latex works to rubberize wings."
Of course, if you had said that, I might have been tempted to nit-pick by pointing out that a non-jungle person cannot take fresh rubber off a tree, because it is on an inaccessible jungle tile. However, that is clearly just a nit-pick, because even if you correct that error, the fact remains that liquid latex is only accessible by jungle folk due to the timing aspect. It cannot be found in abandoned places and would be tricky to trade. Although I guess you could trade the rubberized wings.
This mistake isn't significant, so there is no reason to point it out, except for the sake of clarity. It doesn't weaken your position or strengthen mine. And it doesn't really matter either way, so maybe it doesn't need to be said at all.
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Instead, your post comes across as a criticism of the word "latex" in my list. It sounds nit-picky because you were trying to prove my word choice was wrong for an inconsequential reason. Yes, there is no item called "latex" in the game. No, that doesn't matter.
You started your post saying:
Here is an incomplete list of items that require access to a specialty biome. These items are hard or impossible to make if you are born the wrong color, so they could be traded or desired as trade items .... if we could communicate more easily with other families.
It doesn't matter if you didn't provide information that you said you were going to provide? No, I don't agree. You aren't holding yourself accountable for delivering on what you said would. There is no way to make latex in game. There is no way to trade for latex nor to trade latex.
For trading purposes, different forms of latex differ.
I had thought before that your point of such a list lay in suggesting that people don't always want the same thing when asking for resources from others. After all, earlier in this thread Laggy had said:
How hard is it to understand what a different race wants? They always want the same thing, if your confused by this idk what to tell you.
Your list suggests otherwise, and again, I thought it was kind of a refutation of that wrong claim. A list with liquid latex, sulfured latex, and coagulated latex, instead of the category 'latex', makes that point more strongly.
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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Seriously this doesnt matter. We all understood what destiny meant. I'm not sure what's with your eagerness to argue and berate people for the littlest things lately. You gotta chill dude. There are way more important things and way bigger things to argue about than destiny not being specific enough for you. You made your point, it bothers you, now drop it. You're not going to convince anyone you're right and you're just making a fool of yourself. Destiny has the right to express herself however she wants on here.
Last edited by Gremlynn (2021-07-04 18:29:45)
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Ah good. For a minute there I was worried that I might have read too much into your original post and preceived criticism where none was intended. Glad to see I understood you just fine the first time.
Spoonwood, this is a pedantic argument. I did not look up the exact name for latex items on One Tech because that level of precision is not important. I trust that most of my readers will understand that "latex" is a category that refers to the relevant in-game objects, like "bucket of liquid latex" or "bucket of coagulated latex". Further clarification isn't needed unless you want to talk about something specific to one of these types of latex. It is okay if you want to do that, but that's not what I was doing.
Latex is a trade good for jungle folk. Simple as that.
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I'm not sure what's with your eagerness to argue and berate people for the littlest things lately.
Destiny had said I was being nit-picky. She's now saying my argument was 'pedantic'. Given her terms as correct, I think she would be berating me for some little thing from the beginning.
There are way more important things and way bigger things to argue about than destiny not being specific enough for you.
That wasn't my argument, nor my position whatsoever.
You're not going to convince anyone you're right and you're just making a fool of yourself.
You said I made a fool out of myself. But, I don't view myself as having acted foolishly. So, how have I made a fool out of myself?
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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Ah good. For a minute there I was worried that I might have read too much into your original post and preceived criticism where none was intended. Glad to see I understood you just fine the first time.
Spoonwood, this is a pedantic argument. I did not look up the exact name for latex items on One Tech because that level of precision is not important.
No. It does matter if you deliver or not on what you claim you said were going to do. It matters in terms of clarity at the very least.
I trust that most of my readers will understand that "latex" is a category that refers to the relevant in-game objects, like "bucket of liquid latex" or "bucket of coagulated latex". Further clarification isn't needed unless you want to talk about something specific to one of these types of latex. It is okay if you want to do that, but that's not what I was doing.
Further clarification is needed to have an accurate list of all things in the game. Further clarification is needed to better observe that people don't always want the same thing is needed.
Latex is a trade good for jungle folk. Simple as that.
If it were simple as that, then jungle people would trade in latex. They don't. So, it's not that simple. The abstract concept of 'latex' is more complicated than the specific in-game objects of liquid latex, sulfured latex, and coagulated latex, since the abstract concept encompasses them all.
It is simply false that jungle folk now or have ever traded in latex, which becomes even clearly once realizes that they have to trade in concrete in-game objects, not in an abstract category.
No one will find 'latex' when searching for it on onetech. They need the interpretation of the search machine to find anything.
Last edited by Spoonwood (2021-07-04 19:06:09)
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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Arguments are not about purely thinking you're right or convincing the other person they're wrong. The most important people in a debate are not the participants, but the audience. Arguing for the sake of "winning" or to the point the other person gives up or backs off makes someone look brutish. It makes someone look narrow minded and stuck in their ways. Which i think we can all agree are not good selling points if we're trying to convince people of our point of view. The fact you cant see how you're being is what makes you look like a fool. Have some pride and some respect for destiny's intentions. This behavior has become beyond annoying. You used to fight for something, now it seems you only fight for the sake of fighting.
Last edited by Gremlynn (2021-07-04 19:37:39)
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Oh geez. Why do you keep arguing like this? It is okay to admit when you have made a mistake. Your claims just get more and more unreasonable when you are pressured.
It is simply false that jungle folk now or have ever traded in latex, which becomes even clearly once realizes that they have to trade in concrete in-game objects, not in an abstract category.
If I write "latex" on a piece of paper and drop it in the middle of a jungle town, a kind person will bring me a bucket of latex eventually. That's a cold hard fact. It might take a while for anyone to care enough to go do it, but they will understand what I need perfectly well. I will get latex.
I do not need to write "bucket of coagulated latex" for them to figure out what I need. I don't even need to write "I want to trade you this glass bottle for a bucket of coagulated latex, kind sir.". A note with just the word latex by itself is more than enough. So yeah, people can and do trade for "latex" in OHOL, because latex is one of the primary goods that need to be exchanged between families. Mostly for rubber to make tires for water or oil production.
Now if I specifically need liquid latex or definitely do not want sulfured latex, I might need to be more specific in my note. But if I don't care what kind of latex I get, then "latex" is all I need to say. The rest will fall into place naturally.
No one will find 'latex' when searching for it on onetech. They need the interpretation of the search machine to find anything.
Ummm ... yes they will. Anyone who puts "latex" in the search field will get all four items with the word latex in the name as the result of their search. That's what the search bar does. It has one job and it does it really well.
Wait ... how do you usually search OneTech? Do you search manually or something? I'm confused.
It is very easy to find latex using the search bar. You do not need to search for "bucket" or "bucket of latex" or something. Just search for latex. Bucket returns way too many results and bucket of latex doesn't return any.
Last edited by DestinyCall (2021-07-04 20:49:53)
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Arguments are not about purely thinking you're right or convincing the other person they're wrong. The most important people in a debate are not the participants, but the audience. Arguing for the sake of "winning" or to the point the other person gives up or backs off makes someone look brutish.
Arguing for the sake of "winning", yes. But, to the point that someone admits an error, which can qualify as "backing off", no that doesn't make someone look brutish to a hypothetically objective observer at least. When arguing to an audience, it is necessary that a sense of what is correct and what is not get maintained.
It makes someone look narrow minded and stuck in their ways.
There is nothing narrow minded to try to get others to maintain a sense of objective reality.
Which i think we can all agree are not good selling points if we're trying to convince people of our point of view.
Not everything is a "point of view". It is not a "point of view" that latex does not exist in the game as an object. It is a fact that such does not exist. It is a fact that sulfured latex exists. It is a fact that coagulated latex exists. It is a fact that liquid latex exists. There does exist real in-game differences between these objects. Furthermore, those distinctions have relevance to what a resource acquisition player wants and how that process might work.
One might not go to a town with people in it at all to acquire sulfured or coagulated latex. One might look in a dead town. That has some plausibility of working. But, it is almost impossible to conceive that one could obtain liquid latex that way. Furthermore, if one goes to a town and just writes 'latex', and then the jungle villager goes out and gets it, you're almost surely going to end up with coagulated latex or sulfured latex. If you have coagulated latex, and want sulfured latex, from the villager you might go out and get sulfured latex from another village alive or dead. But, if you go to a town and want liquid latex, and then wait in the village while the jungle person gets the stuff, you almost surely won't get liquid latex! It's not an option to wait in a town away from jungle trees if you want liquid latex. Thus, the process in a fair number of cases needed is different in terms of resource acquisition in that one needs to stay close to the person obtaining the resources, and they can't dawdle too much in the jungle.
The fact you cant see how you're being is what makes you look like a fool.
I have been articulate, if not also sufficiently precise, with respect to how the difference matters. I have gone into detail of how the difference matters for the game. For the record, a "nit-pick" involves basically making a distinction when there is no relevant difference. But, I have pointed out how relevant differences exist and justified those distinctions as difference by detailing things as in the above paragraph. I keep making reference back to the game, because those details matter.
Now, tell me, how exactly is that foolish for the claims I have made? Or for maintaining a sense of objective reality? And seriously, where has DestinyCall been referring back to the game to justify her position that such details just don't matter, or done anything to show that her claim of "nit-picking" was anything but a label that she believed correct in the moment without any justification to back up that label?
Have some pride and some respect for destiny's intentions.
Above I said:
I had thought before that your point of such a list lay in suggesting that people don't always want the same thing when asking for resources from others. After all, earlier in this thread Laggy had said...
and:
Your [Destiny's] list suggests otherwise, and again, I thought it was kind of a refutation of that [Laggy's] wrong claim. A list with liquid latex, sulfured latex, and coagulated latex, instead of the category 'latex', makes that point more strongly.
So, I really don't know why you've written the above as if I weren't respecting what I thought her intentions were at the very least, in the original post. I also have no intention of respecting any sort of intentions to label someone as engaging in some sort of behavior when they haven't been doing so. And well, sticking to one's perspective when one believes and even has some evidence that they are correct, that sounds like pride to me.
Last edited by Spoonwood (2021-07-04 21:01:51)
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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This is just beyond ridiculous and if you dont see why I cant help you. This is the second thread you have complete diverted from the subject to go off on some rant. You're arguing for yourself, not anyone else. Learning to let these kind of things go will help you, I promise. Words are words, we get to choose the ones we use. If you have a problem with destiny's list, make your own. Choose the wording you think is correct. Be a productive member of the active discussion instead of throwing everything off into a pointless argument about semantics.
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