Would you suicide as the last girl?

Anshin · 2018-09-06 12:21:56

PeaGirl wrote:

Anshin wrote:
I still believe a 45 second pregnancy would really help people cool off and get a sense of their new life. Where the new player can see what the mother sees, and the mom gets a chance to prepare for incoming baby. Consider it a warm up tour
But what if baby does not like it? Do they do abort?

You can't stop people from ESC% quitting, so yes baby can miscarry if they want... but that would also allow tracking of actual baby suicides.

gabal · 2018-09-06 12:34:12

Anshin wrote:

I still believe a 45 second pregnancy would really help people cool off and get a sense of their new life. Where the new player can see what the mother sees, and the mom gets a chance to prepare for incoming baby. Consider it a warm up tour

I actually quite like this idea. I would certanly not start a trip to find iron if I see my character is expecting a child like it happens every single time...

S0mbre · 2018-09-06 12:46:39

And people who want to join will have a 45 seconds cooldown. It avoid suicide for respawn. Because they know than they will need to wait 45 secondes if they die.

VioletLily · 2018-09-06 14:05:32

I really like the idea of pregnancy!

There could be a problem with using it to track suicides though. Would the game be able to tell the difference between someone who quits and someone who looses connection? I would hate to be punished because my connection is iffy.

Last edited by VioletLily (2018-09-06 14:11:25)

Roblor · 2018-09-06 14:27:12

Wow! That might actually work. Great idea!

VioletLily · 2018-09-06 14:30:51

It would be nice if you could name your baby while pregnant too. That way, if the baby runs once born, you could curse him/her.

You would need a way to identify the number of babies though. Maybe different belly sizes?

S0mbre · 2018-09-06 14:37:12

Some people do ALT+F4 for suicide themselves..

Great idea to name the baby during pregnancy.

Last edited by S0mbre (2018-09-06 14:37:43)

helloworld · 2018-09-06 15:34:23

This is a game and one hour is a long time. To try and force people to play in situation they dont want to for an hour. Will be miserable for both u and the force player. a game is about having fun, and this should be a priority. You guys discuss penalties about things you dont like such as baby suicide. But do u really want that baby that doesnt want too stay? He/she most likely wont contribute much, since they dont want to stay.

S0mbre · 2018-09-06 15:36:28

You don't need to play one hour. Half hour is already a lot, you can reach adult state in half hour. and make a lot of stuff. We will not complain those who don't want to play 30 minutes in the game. It's a wrong argument. Nobody force anyone to login. (We talk about baby suicide, not adult suicide even if Eve suicide is a pain in the ass.)

A baby who login want to play. Else, why he is login? The game is about surviving in community. Passing the fire to the next generation. You can also live alone if you want. I don't see why people will not want to play with us. As a baby, you don't even have a fucking idea about how the people in your community are. You was just born 30 sc ago. You don't even have see the village and the area around. How you could know something about your community ? How you could know if you like or don't like the place where you was born 30 sc ago ?

Last edited by S0mbre (2018-09-06 15:43:21)

SomeRandomPerson · 2018-09-06 16:08:44

helloworld wrote:

This is a game and one hour is a long time. To try and force people to play in situation they dont want to for an hour. Will be miserable for both u and the force player. a game is about having fun, and this should be a priority. You guys discuss penalties about things you dont like such as baby suicide. But do u really want that baby that doesnt want too stay? He/she most likely wont contribute much, since they dont want to stay.

Neither is fun to see hours of work die because of a selfish baby who suicided.

So many towns die because of suicide babies.

helloworld · 2018-09-06 16:21:06

Different gen offer different gameplay. Personally i enjoy eve’s child run the best. If you see whats around, you dont even need 30 sec to figure out what tech lvl they are. If they have stone wall they at least have chisel and mallet/azda etc. everyone likes to play the game differently, some like to spawn in big civ and roleplay. Some like to teach kids new/skilled. Some like to be efficient as possible, some like to start eve run. Some people like to grief and destroy generation. This game bring different gameplay for different individuals. Ur idea of gameplay is only one. And to force ur view onto the community will most likely not happen. Nor should it. If i want to enjoy a game of eve’s child run and spend my personal one hour to play it. Are you really gonna sit in front of ur computer to tell me how to spend my hour? And if i cant do that then i leave the game, and is as if that suicidal baby never existed.

S0mbre · 2018-09-06 16:26:20

This information don't give you an idea of the mind of the community. You can't learn how is a community if you don't live in it. Every life is about one hour.. so you have never the same person in the community. Yes, you can know what it was build. But you can't know who is leaving here.

The thing who is sure is than if baby suicide, there will be no civilisation at all. If people don't play, there is no game. (i've not show one example of playing the game. You just didn't understand what i've write. Or didn't even try to understand it. I'd never say than you need to make a big city or a little village. I've say than you need to play the game. Not killing the fun of everyone by going suicide by selfishness. It's a social game, if you can't handle this, just wait to be able to eat by yourself and go in the wild. No need to suicide yourself.)

The problem is than there is not only one suicidal baby... for each eve, the average of suicidal baby is about 4 on 6. (If she had 6 baby during her mum stage) You just need to play a random streaming video to see it. Even on the main page of this game, you see in the last video edited than the streamer had several running baby. Not even one have try to play... they all have run to the wild. What do you want to do when you see this ? You can't make an infinite number of babies, there will be a time where you will not be able to do babies. And when this time will happens, it will be the end of your community.
So if everyone think like you. Then, there will be no game. Because nobody try to play. They just suicide to see if the grass is more green elsewhere. This is really stupid and this need a penalty.

Anyway, SomeRandomPerson have goodly resume the problem. Ruining the fun of the other is not fun. (And i don't talk about griefing, i talk about not even try to play)

And we are talking about a baby who can't even feed himself. Don't talk me about someone who say to him what to do because he have no job yet. (And even when he will became a child, i never see people forcing other to do something. Everytime, player choose themselve what they want to do in the community. Some propose job regarding the situation. But nobody force nobody to do stuff. People are free to play the game as they prefer. Suicide is not playing the game.)

Last edited by S0mbre (2018-09-06 16:44:39)

Lotus · 2018-09-06 16:55:46

I agree it is selfish if you ask the last baby girl to stay and she continues to suicide, but there is a chance that she will be angry at you. This happens to me a lot when I beg my last baby to stay — she grows up, is a major sponge, hides items, is extremely rude, and occasionally kills her babies or other people. If someone is forced to stay in a town and they have all power over you, it may get taken out on the townspeople.

It’s sad. A lot of Eve camps I’ve had have died out due to my Griefer Last Girl.

helloworld · 2018-09-06 17:31:18

Let me give u example of my perspective, please share ur example after so i can understand fully what ur trying to say.

Today for dinner you have three choice. You can eat mexican, asian, or European cuisine.
You want to eat asian cuisine, and u dont like the way mexican and european cuisine taste.

But there is a rule, you cant choose the cuisine, instead ur randomly assign one. However you can press a button to get randomly assign a new cuisine.

Do you eat food you dont like, or do you press the button to till you get the food you want to eat.

P.s. on a side note there is no cool down or limit on how many baby a girl can have. ( or not that i know of) so if someone suicide as baby. It doesnt really change anything, because that person wouldve never existed to begin with.

P.s.s. Im only against ur idea of adding penalty to suiciding as a baby. If you think of a solution that doesnt punish ppl like me for just trying to play my game. Then more power to u and jason. Peace

Last edited by helloworld (2018-09-06 18:02:30)

pein · 2018-09-06 17:38:53

PeaGirl wrote:

Anshin wrote:
I still believe a 45 second pregnancy would really help people cool off and get a sense of their new life. Where the new player can see what the mother sees, and the mom gets a chance to prepare for incoming baby. Consider it a warm up tour
But what if baby does not like it? Do they do abort?

elpehant pregnancy, you will be pregnant half of your life, nobody getting out xD
sometimes you get a noob mom in a big city and stick to it

if both side could refuse for like 10 seconds, less children would die, you could get a view for 10 sec and a timer, your gender
also plants to delay or reset timer would be nice or what gus did, picking up other babies act as your own baby

basically more player control over it

happynova · 2018-09-06 18:44:30

I really don't see any of these ideas working.

There is good motivation for not feeding/keeping cursed babies. What would possibly be the motivation for not keeping a baby marked as having suicided in a previous life if it's not running this time and you actually want/need babies? That player is presumably now right where they want to be, and unless they're a griefer -- which I suspect most suicides aren't -- they're ready to be part of that community. Whereas if they're forced or pressured to stay somewhere they don't want to be, they're probably not going to be contributing much, and are likely to just conveniently forget to eat as soon as they can do so without penalties. Worse, I'd be surprised if some significant number of them didn't start griefing places they don't like out of resentment or boredom. Or they'll just give up on the game entirely, and based on the number of times babies run on me, I think that's a lot of players. A game like this dies if not enough people are willing to play.

And a pregnancy period sounds really useful for the mom, if nothing else, but, y'know, people are suggesting a short waiting period before respawning as some kind of punishment for baby suiciding because waiting is really annoying. Annoying everybody by making them wait that long doesn't seem like a recipe for a game people want to play, either.

No question, baby suicides annoy the crap out of me. I recently had a really promising Eve camp die out on me because of them, and not for the first time. I hate that people do it, even as I understand why they do. And I, myself, never, ever suicide, even in bad circumstances, unless I get born to a mother who is spewing racist abuse or something. (Because I am not playing with people like that if I can help it, and I'm certainly not contributing to them having a successful lineage. Screw those people. But that's actually a very rare circumstance.) To me, the randomness of where you're born and the idea that you're given the opportunity try to make the best of wherever you end up is part of the charm and the challenge. And I really wish everybody else thought that way.

But I don't think baby-suiciding is something you, realistically, can force people not to do, and if somehow you managed it, I don't think it would go well. Seems to me this is an annoyance we just have to live with.

S0mbre · 2018-09-06 19:06:10

The problem is than 80% of the babies go to suicide in every gameplay configuration. At this state, if nobody want to play or eat chinese food, Jason can shutdown the server. There is not point to let this game running. I don't really understand suicide baby because it happens a lot and in every situation. It seem than people don't understand the meaning of "not trying to ruin the fun of the majority".

Anyway, it was just suggestion. Nobody says it's the best idea. There is maybe others ways to manage those suicide. It's not an easy problem. Some game have successfully manage this.

Last edited by S0mbre (2018-09-06 19:11:07)

pein · 2018-09-06 19:41:54

well you can also suicide to help them
like a mom who didnt found a spot, you are a boy and your sis is born, i will run away

there are too many factors

maybe a bonus to help not a punishment to go
worked with yum, repetitive eating improved a bit
told jason the example with stronghold, low ratios, high variety worked better than lot of one stuff, yum is similar to that
now what a bonus can be?

if your last kid left you, you could have no penalty on next one so set your temp on middle for a few minutes? i dont want you that always, as eve maybe, but maybe i abandon the kid, i will abandon the next one too
or some inter game buff?
if you stay with a player under 50 hours gameplay, would give you a buff, like a shield against a stabbing
if you need to live 20 min or have a daughter, a shield like that is not too powerful, wont help much the boys, so maybe 20 min and a speed bonus next life?
if you grow up to 3 years, you get some gift box for the family, this would stop abandoning kids even if they are new, for example randomly get a pie or a rope or something, not tools or crafted items, just raw materials, now this would ensure babies are a bit more precious
might not stop suicide but people could convince you until you grow and you would help somebody with 3 min of your life

what bonus would make you stay for 20 min? cause i get when i work that day i dont want to spend even 20 min to get them a granddaughter
a set of ragged clothes? not that op but you could swap on others
something for next life? a curse token? other token which can be spent on wishes? like a 'baby now' token?
if you help out someone with staying you could signal them you need a baby girl and would allow them to join directly in your family your next few hours?

MultiLife · 2018-09-06 19:45:08

So the thing that frustrates most about suiciding babies is that they doom a lineage, right?
Remember guys, all towns are doomed to die off anyways UNLESS!!! the Eve of the family tree died at 60 to Old Age. She can spawn back and revive the place if she died with her home marker set and at 60 years.

Whether your babies ran off at Gen X or you only got boys at Gen X, the place will die anyways and the only hope is that the Eve gets back there. Even then, servers reset.
Don't be too frustrated over running babies and your "work going to waste": everyone is, selfish or not, entitled to play the game how they want, even if it hurts others. It's just a cold fact.

I think people should accept that; yes we can plan systems that would punish or reward certain actions that are "wanted" from the players but would it really do anything worthwhile? Would people just think of ways to benefit from these systems and yet still do whatever they please? I think they would.

I don't oppose the pregnancy idea thing, but I dunno if we really need it, I already imagine griefers looking over where the weapons and bear caves are...

Anyways TL;DR, every place is doomed, don't play if you fear your work is going to "waste" (it is, sooner or later, but it won't be wasted time if you enjoyed yourself while doing it) and people will play as they please. Yes for cool ideas, always interesting.

S0mbre · 2018-09-06 20:09:19

If it was a minority who suicide, i will not waste my time in this thread. But it's not. It's a majority.

A place is not doomed for three days, you can make a story during three days. The server don't reset everyday. Your argument is invalid. The goal is to make big stories with a bunch of short stories. Even if the eve is dead, sometimes there is traveller who pass nearby and want to participate to the life of the village. (They have no family name, so baby will have no family name, i don't understand why. You should be able to choose a family name if you are alone. I've make baby one time, and they survive a lot but they didn't have a family name.)

You have a short window for making babies, if all those babies run away. It's less motivated. It's say than if you want to play and be sure to do some stories, you need to play in big city (Because mostly jumping baby try to respawn in big city). This is really boring.

Last edited by S0mbre (2018-09-06 20:14:20)

Trick · 2018-09-06 20:40:27

I've played this game a lot. Probably too much. But in doing so, I have become an 'expert' at early stage mechanics. Starting up a camp is boring to me because I've done it 10,000 times before. It doesn't challenge me. It doesn't intrigue me. Instead, it actually feels like work (especially when I am the most experienced and am effectively keeping everyone alive by being a workhorse). That isn't fun.

This is a game, and I want to have fun. So, unless I am in the mood for an Eve run, I will often suicide to Eves. Maybe that makes me an asshole, but I justify it by being a really good player otherwise (I never grief, I work my ass off 98% of the time, and I play benevolently).

If I want to spend an hour of my day playing a game, I want that hour to be an enjoyable experience - not me slugging away at something I've done many times before. If you were to turn on your gaming console to get an hour of gaming in, you aren't going to return to play level 1 over and over. And if someone forced you to, you'd eventually stop playing because what's the point?

Punishing people for suiciding is a bad idea, IMO. Jeez... we hardly punish people for being royal pieces of shit in-game.

It sucks when your Eve run doesn't work out... I know, it's happened to me many times before. But, that's how it works out sometimes.

MultiLife · 2018-09-06 21:05:07

S0mbre wrote:

If it was a minority who suicide, i will not waste my time in this thread. But it's not. It's a majority.

Not a majority in my experience but shrug to that. If people could choose their lives no one would suicide.

S0mbre wrote:

A place is not doomed for three days, you can make a story during three days. The server don't reset everyday. Your argument is invalid. The goal is to make big stories with a bunch of short stories. Even if the eve is dead, sometimes there is traveller who pass nearby and want to participate to the life of the village.

My argument is that a lineage can be doomed at any given point all the time no matter how we try to get players to stay and play. My goal is to live different lives and not making long lineages, personally. I can't rely on long lineages as a goal, but I can rely on having fun each life by myself.
You do know stuff disappear when someone hasn't spawned near it in a while? There was some algorithm that deletes things that players haven't encountered in a while iirc. Relying on others finding your stuff seems a bit silly when this is the case. Honestly, the best we have are Eves dying at 60 if we want to keep up long lineages and make cities and stories...

S0mbre wrote:

You have a short window for making babies, if all those babies run away. It's less motivated. It's say than if you want to play and be sure to do some stories, you need to play in big city (Because mostly jumping baby try to respawn in big city). This is really boring.

Wait now I have no idea what you mean with stories, you can make a story with only two players? Each life is a story and all you need is a player or two?

Last edited by MultiLife (2018-09-07 04:34:47)

S0mbre · 2018-09-06 21:36:30

MultiLife wrote:

I have no idea what you mean with stories, you can make a story with only two players? Each life is a story and all you need is a player or two?

I talk about what is write on the background of the game :

This game is about playing one small part in a much larger story

I would love also than someone explain me why a baby as the same endurance than an adult when it's about running. They should run slower and be tired faster. Then we will able to catch them.

Last edited by S0mbre (2018-09-06 21:53:55)

VioletLily · 2018-09-06 22:07:42

You know, ultimately, whether or not baby suicide should be tolerated depends on Jason's vision for the game.

The main difference between the two views are whether the person values personal play and enjoyment over the community aspect, or vice versa. By taking one side, you will inevitably jeopardize the other at times.

As the game moves forward and becomes more advanced, one view will have to take precedence over the other. Jason has the ultimate say in which that would be.

Last edited by VioletLily (2018-09-06 22:42:21)

S0mbre · 2018-09-06 22:15:34

Yeah... and i think than by buying the game in the first place you accepted the game like it is. Else you will not play it.

Jason have already change the rules before you even buy the game. You don't argue about it because you are not aware of how the rules was before you take interest of the game.

So now, you have the game. If Jason decide to change rules, you should just accept it. There is rules on the game than you don't like, who are on the game since you have it, but you deal with it anyway. Like we deal actually with this painfull baby suicide.

Last edited by S0mbre (2018-09-06 22:15:58)

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