DoN'T ShEAr ThE LAst ShEeP oR i KilllLLLl!

CrazyEddie · 2019-03-03 15:33:45

The super-experienced players pay lip service to "you don't need to be 100% efficient" but don't really mean it, because they have lost all sense of empathy for people who are new to the game and cannot calibrate their knowledge of efficiency to the average player's understanding of the game.

Also, they're dicks.

Mushroom · 2019-03-03 16:34:57

I can see that we all agree under one case - you shouldn't be a dick. And that goes for both tryhards and ThOSe LaZy PaRAsiTEs wHO wAStE ShOVeL. You have right to "just fuck around" sometimes and not get punished for that - IMO it's part of the game and the experience. As I said before, there is a border you shouldn't cross, but that border in tryhards' minds is very very easy to cross. That's what makes them tryhards and not reasonable players with common sense.

Of course you will get killed for setting up a fucking useless building in the middle of the farm when everyone tells you not to. Just an example. But I am saying that you shouldn't get killed or yelled at for something that DOESN'T REALLY MATTER AT ALL when you think about it - we already talked about pies and babies.

Some people just take it too seriously and treat the game like a chore and this is exactly what pisses me off.

MultiLife · 2019-03-03 17:01:45

But we can never fix people, there will always be these kinds of people. But I guess venting is what we do here.

happynova · 2019-03-03 17:10:17

You know what I find ironic? Because this is a game that requires communal effort and working with other people, that means that knowing how to deal with the people around you in ways that help them learn and inspire them to contribute is an extremely important, perhaps even fundamental, skill. You can know every crafting recipe, every trick for getting as much as possible out of your food, every detail about temperature and animal behavior and timing, but if you suck at working with other people, or don't care to bother trying, you're not actually a master at the game. You're only good at the simplest, easiest to control part!

Other players are the most unpredictable feature of OHOL, and its most important resource. It's kind of funny to me that people who can't abide the thought of wasting one berry are so cavalier about wasting that resource. And I say that as someone who really, really understands that people are more frustrating and complicated to deal with than crafting recipes and soil-use calculations. (I mean, I had fun venting on the pet peeve thread. It was cathartic.) But that is also part of the challenge of the game. It's not a solo base-building game where you get to control how everything is done. The complicated social aspects, and the fact that you have to find a way to absorb new players into the fold and to create towns that are robust enough to weather the inefficiency of the average player, that's a feature, not a bug. You want to really be the pro of all pros at this game? Git good at that.

Also, Mushroom is, of course, right: "don't be a dick" is good advice for both games and life.

fragilityh14 · 2019-03-03 17:11:20

I'm on Mushrooms side about pretty much all of this.

Going out on iron expedition is fun, actually. And once you have a horse it ain't all that dangerous. Sometimes you find ruins or other live camps. Also if anyone decides to colonize later, you help them in some ways, in that barrel cactuses are spawned and rabbits have families etc [though of course, you're also taking the iron]

And even if i do an iron run and come back with 15 (and four new baskets, i make my baskets in the wild on iron runs) nothing is to save me from someone deciding it is his or her position to stab me for burying our dead. I guess it may be mostly useless, but at the cost of one iron per 30 people. I keep seeing pointless small tracks. Are people getting stabbed for those? that's a _way_ bigger waste of iron than burying the dead.

Also does both picking up and putting down the poop count as a use? I never happen to have had a shovel break while putting manure on a pile. It's definitely the case that only one of those should count as a use. Picking up the poop shouldn't really even count as a use, because it's on the surface. Presumably when you add the poop you're stirring the pile, so that's more reasonable to count as a use. Though i also don't personally remember a shovel breaking when picking up the poop, that wouldn't make a lot of sense, for it to break with the poop on it (and the things always break after use)

Anyway, the next time i start a camp that makes it to having shovels, i'm going to try to pass down a culture of burying our dead.

Also, noobs for sure just grab tools and click other things with them. It's a matter of personality how much they get in the way or make mistakes, a more timid person isn't going to want to try things that may cause problems. Other people don't really think that way, and just want to get in there and start doing things, whether or not it is the right thing to do.

The really bad noob experience i had was someone who kept getting in the way of my smithing, like really really in the way. And kept pulling a knife on me if i said anything It is a rare instance i would have killed someone if i had a knife. I even offered for the person to watch me and to explain what i was doing, and he pulled a knife again. I fled just a bit off screen, and when i came back another woman had stabbed him. Another time, I was frustrated because i was trying to make compost and people kept getting in my way (you know how it is, by the time you get back your shit is gone etc) and i said "OMG!" and this person was like "never talk to me like that again" so I just fled the camp, because i was already annoyed at trying to save them.

I dislike hectic disastrous camps, and i really hate it when people threaten me, and I'm a very peaceful player. I also like starting new camps and still believe in this permanent population thing [the idea that we should be migrating outwards and thus family lines should rarely die once established...I also really want to make a road because there are already two cities, instead of just making roads and then slowly building this and that along them]. So, if you upset me as a young female, i'll pretty much always grab a bowl and run away, possibly with a hoe and ax head, if it won't hurt them too much. [and seriously, for how much people bitch about iron and milkweed scarcity, you'd be amazed what you can find like 2-300 tiles away from a major city]

Not getting killed in the wilds is a skill though. The desert being temp punishing is nice for avoiding snakes, nothing deadly in the arctic. yum chain for yellow fever protection, favor open areas to running through trees to miss the boars. [obviously, i still die in the wilds plenty, because it's dangerous out there, but it does get easier if you spend a lot of time in the wilds]

pein · 2019-03-03 22:35:04

for the second part:
jason gave us curses to have a defense against people who kill last girls and destroy camps
people use it for personal opinions, to enforce their power and to troll others
spending 2 hours to send people in donkeytown 2 hours has no benefit
no one should let himself convinced to curse others, cause that's what real griefers do
if you spend 2 minutes to check upon the person they accuse or lsiten him, will turn out 90% of the time that person is the one who was trolled, stolen from or annoyed by others while that naked mom who convinces you to curse, munching berries and doing jacksit, would be the one who deserves getting killed and cursed

mistakes happen, they wont change the fact that they are harmful
harmful habits are unacceptable on any level of civ
tilling 1 soil means you are lazy and stupid, it doesn't depend on how much iron you got, its disgraceful to do it, especially if the player who got the iron is still alive and he has all the right to mention it, or even kill you for it
and generally any error or bad intention has a chance you get punished
and its selfish to think others will do things for you what they wouldn't do themselves

as for killing:its not always bad, and making pads in cost of my apron doesn't justify that she is stealing fleece, and that she even says stuff like "if someone gets stabbed you will be the fault"
welp, if someone gets stabbed it will be you
and hoarding the only knife and needle makes you most prone to a bow shot

my biggest problem is that people could say sorry but they dont
i wil mention errors anyway as its no way to know what you did is harmful if you don't know it
the responsible thing would be to sa sorry, and fix it
the general reaction is "fuck you" "do it yourself" "eat dick"
my general response will be "eat steel"
and i wont even warn before i stab you cause it gives you time to go on begging for curses and weapons
i did it, cause i thought is fair, and im not afraid of real duels, but people are so pathetic in every case so far
you don't let me kill you? curse you
im griefing and you try to stop me? curse you
you don't let me to take the fruits of your labor? fuck you

i met an enthusiast newbee, and i was younger, so she was speaking from a high horse
she first ate my carrot line behind a tree, which was for seeds, told her, she was like " i don't want to die"
well then don't go out of city and certainly don't eat stuff from ground
then she kept shearing sheep, i told to feed them if she shears it
then she kept using my berry bowls to feed sheep
but then took a ll the fleece right away
it took me 30 minutes and still no compost cause of her
so i stabbed her and we got compost in 5 min
and mainly cause a guy was bringing back the shears i put further, and even helped him shear the sheep
its one thing to teach people, but then start with the obvious
now update fixed this, but is so annoying that people don't know and act so holy
i was called griefer for trying to compost
cause i "hide food and lock carrot"

so yeah, its mainly not the branch you took what i kill you for
its your attitude
cause i make stuff and get my own stuff, and don't waste others time
so if you do it and refuse to stop then is same as grifers do

and im not talking about newbees, you can see who is a newbee or who not
im talking about people who are too lazy to stack 2 soil or who kill mouflon for the space
it's the wrong logic to do things, wrong priorities
its same boring for others to produce resources, its easy to make a room if you got some and i could do it faster then you, and it would make sense that you gather and i assemble, yet i do it for you but at least don't bitch about not getting everything for free
don't make it harder for others on cost of making easier for you
or don't be surprised to be killed for it
its happening all the time, if i troll i know i deserve to be killed for it

futurebird · 2019-03-04 00:18:42

happynova wrote:

You know what I find ironic? Because this is a game that requires communal effort and working with other people, that means that knowing how to deal with the people around you in ways that help them learn and inspire them to contribute is an extremely important, perhaps even fundamental, skill. You can know every crafting recipe, every trick for getting as much as possible out of your food, every detail about temperature and animal behavior and timing, but if you suck at working with other people, or don't care to bother trying, you're not actually a master at the game. You're only good at the simplest, easiest to control part!

That's what I love about this game!

breezeknight · 2019-03-04 00:52:45

futurebird wrote:

happynova wrote:
You know what I find ironic? Because this is a game that requires communal effort and working with other people, that means that knowing how to deal with the people around you in ways that help them learn and inspire them to contribute is an extremely important, perhaps even fundamental, skill. You can know every crafting recipe, every trick for getting as much as possible out of your food, every detail about temperature and animal behavior and timing, but if you suck at working with other people, or don't care to bother trying, you're not actually a master at the game. You're only good at the simplest, easiest to control part!
That's what I love about this game!

i hope this stays main content of the gameplay
if the randomness of the people i can play with vanishes then it won't be fun anymore for me to play
the lack of control over the things & the people is what makes the game interesting
i am even willing to tolerate being griefed & being murdered, because that's a part of that randomness

fragilityh14 · 2019-03-04 02:48:34

I haven't had a violent death in a long time, because one learns how to avoid them, and I'm a peaceful person, but this game is nothing without the aspect of PVP violence. Also some jackass ruining everything is a part of life.

There has to be a balance, but violence and wrongful planning are a sad and serious part of human life.

happynova · 2019-03-04 15:33:02

futurebird wrote:

That's what I love about this game!

The social aspects, and the unpredictability of having to work with and share a family and community with random people, is definitely a big part of what makes this game special, for all that it can also drive you crazy. There's a reason I stopped playing Don't Starve and started playing this. Don't Starve never made me feel the kid of emotions this game has especially in the beginning.

I do think after you've been playing for a long time, it's easy to get caught up in the technical details, the crafting, the question of whether you're doing things the most efficient way and have you learned all the newest recipes and what's the current meta, and so on, and lose sight of that, lose the feeling of experiencing something outside yourself and being part of something bigger that is -- or was for me -- the game's main draw. I love talking to newer people, like you, who help to remind me of why I'm here in the first place.

PeaGirl · 2019-03-05 10:48:24

I find it awfully ironical to say "It is just a game." in an averagely hard survival game.

Say that same thing to a starting Eve, and you have arrow on your knee straight away to prove your agenda.
Yeah, there are people who make mistakes, but there are those who listen...
And those who don't listen...
And those who don't listen often die faster.

Spoonwood · 2019-03-06 01:51:13

Tarr wrote:

Potato farming? Sure maybe a patch of potatoes won't upset people but multiple patches is both overkill and unnecessary.

41 iron, the cost of setting up the newcomen technology needed for a diesel engine and the engine itself *at minimum* is seriously a lot of shovels and potato rows.

Unless things have changed recently and people are suddenly growing so many more potatoes, with how little potatoes get farmed, it comes as hard to imagine too many potatoes at this point. Not even twisted in his silly video where he tried to convince people that potatoes were bad got relatively to close to the amount of iron that can get used in a life making unneeded newcomen engine technology. 2 shovels (which is what Twisted said he broke), which we'll translate into 4 since the update, probably isn't even the amount of iron to make the steel pipes to get an oil rig wet.

More potatoes come as needed, because not enough people yum in the first place. And settlements don't die out due to a lack of iron.

Grow more potatoes and make other yummy foods more often.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-03-06 01:51:41)

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#30 2019-03-03 17:11:20

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#31 2019-03-03 22:35:04

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#32 2019-03-04 00:18:42

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#33 2019-03-04 00:52:45

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#34 2019-03-04 02:48:34

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