Seriously, why is murdering people so ridiculously easy in this game?

Laura · 2018-03-21 04:54:56

Oh man ... TO many murders ...
freaking out with bow or knife and killed EVERYTHING.
The Babys, the poeple or the sheeps ...
I freaking hate this youtubers who Play just for make the game bad and for the clicks

sammoh · 2018-03-21 06:02:36

Laura wrote:

Oh man ... TO many murders ...
freaking out with bow or knife and killed EVERYTHING.
The Babys, the poeple or the sheeps ...
I freaking hate this youtubers who Play just for make the game bad and for the clicks

So come play with us. You cannot die by bow or knife.

Casdir · 2018-03-21 09:38:09

Laura wrote:

Oh man ... TO many murders ...
freaking out with bow or knife and killed EVERYTHING.
The Babys, the poeple or the sheeps ...
I freaking hate this youtubers who Play just for make the game bad and for the clicks

What do you mean with youtubers are making the game bad for clicks?

I mean, yes, a lot of them don't seem to like taking care of babies, leaving them behind most of the time. But in the end it's thanks to them that the game gets more publicity.

Laura · 2018-03-21 17:31:54

I watched a few YouTube Videos from gamer who have fun killing and they just do it for the clicks.
There are just a few who Play very well and the others make shit just for clicks ;(

Casdir · 2018-03-21 17:40:48

Laura wrote:

I watched a few YouTube Videos from gamer who have fun killing and they just do it for the clicks.
There are just a few who Play very well and the others make shit just for clicks ;(

Ohh, thats what you meant. Hmm, well, I mean the game is offering it, so how can you blame these people for playing the game. But I agree, it kind of sucks.

Btw, I just noticed that you're from Germany. I'm also from Germany. Yay, I guess.. xD

shoukanjuu · 2018-03-22 04:04:05

devlinwyatt wrote:

Now that cities are being connected by roads it very easy for one person to run to each town and instantly murder everyone.

Have you considered NOT connecting all the towns? Like, seriously. Don't do it.

Shallotte · 2018-03-24 22:59:15

Joriom wrote:

jasonrohrer - Last Saturday at 6:49 AM
Not sure... the way murder is handled will likely be modified a bunch more in the future.
jasonrohrer - Last Wednesday at 10:42 PM
Yeah, it can't be slow TO KILL someone
jasonrohrer - 03/11/2018
When you see someone walking around with a loaded bow, that's when you say, WTF
jasonrohrer - 03/11/2018
Well, when massacres happen in real life, people are often caught by surprise and a lot of people die.
It's not like the little kids in the classroom "get wounded" and then have a chance to fight back against the maniac.

I feel like Jason's reasoning's are very shortsighted and flawed in a game environment. Especially the whole "When you see someone walking around with a loaded bow, that's when you say, WTF" because people who are hunting ALSO walk around with loaded bows.

Yes, people can mass murder in real life. But they can't do it at a rate of one single button click or have perfect FLAWLESS aim with a bow and arrow. In a lot of recent mass shootings- MOST PEOPLE SURVIVE. People get wounded, but in most situations in a group of like 50 people only 3-10 people die. Most survive. And the person responsible for killings are almost ALWAYS CAUGHT.

In real life; There is places people can go and hide. They can lock their doors and there are underground bunkers that can be locked in a state of emergency. People can dodge and fight with their fists. There is law enforcement that is equipped to handle and lock up people who are dangerous- in primitive times, people could be caught and tied up with rope to a post if they were criminals. The biggest problem in this game is that Jason hasn't implemented any defensive measures or equipment whatsoever in this game. So the game ends up highly favoring griefers that will exploit the lack of defense the game has.

-------------------------------------

If you REALLY want to talk realism and improve the game;

-People who are killing people with knives or bows should lose energy doing so. It shouldn't be this easy to kill another human being, let alone an entire village without a risk of death yourself by using up all your energy/hunger bar. You would assume in a real world situation that someone using physical force over and over against multiple people would make them tired.

-If players are being killed by a weapon; there should be an audible scream from the victim to everyone within the area. Even people who are off screen but are close enough within reason should hear the audio cue. It would give people a chance to run away. Because people scream when they are killed with a sharp object.

-Players who are about to be victims of a stabbing need to at least have a chance to defend themselves. There needs to be a short animation for stabbing and Bows so people can at least SEE if someone is aiming for them or not. Even if you had to implement a 'combat mode' where the characters walk around with an offensive pose (Knife held up prepared to stab, bow readily pulled back). Because At this time you dont even know you are about to die. Someone causally walks up to you and you are just dead without knowing what happened. I don't see whats realistic about that. When someone is about to kill you, you should be able to visually tell what the intent is.

-We need the ability to make prisons or the ability to tie someone up. But more importantly; If a person is caught- THEY SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO RESPAWN. Players that are captured should be forced to wait out their fate or get blocked from respawning at all until a certain amount of time has passed. Captured players should get this penalty regardless or worse if they force quit the game to bypass this- by not being able to log in for a certain period of time(like a full hour-in game lifetime- for trying to bypass a capture by closing the game).

-Players should be allowed to hide. It would be nice to hide behind bushes or certain structures to avoid rampaging players. But they should still be able to kill you if you are caught.

- I agree with some other players that a player that has committed a murder of 5 or more people in a short span of time should come back as a character that looks slightly visually different than everyone else. This way; people can tell if someone has griefed and then re-spawned or not. Then, regular players can simply decide whether to show mercy by trusting them or not. Like how animals and people of the past discarded children they don't believe will survive based on a mental or physical handicap. A griefer doesn't have to be punished by looking different forever- But I say that this visual change punishment should last at least 24 hours.

-The ability to tame wolves and use them as guard/hunting dogs, that can either aggro when a player kills someone else within proximity to them or be used to help hunt other animals. This would help players find out who is responsible, and also tie into the eventual domestication of dogs over several generations.

-A Murderer should be allowed to be killed without penalty by someone innocent.
--------------

I think all these are perfectly fair and would balance things out a lot. People can still kill people- but doing it excessively would result in a penalty. So being a serial killer would take a lot of thought and planning before carrying out a master plan.

That is real life. Serial murderers 99% of the time never get away with the crime. And the punnishements are harsh or deadly. So people shouldn't be angry or think its unreasonable if serial killers can be more easily thwarted.

And if Jason doesn't agree; he'd better think about what is going to happen when people get ahold of guns in the game.

Last edited by Shallotte (2018-03-25 00:56:22)

Shallotte · 2018-03-24 23:04:19

shoukanjuu wrote:

devlinwyatt wrote:
Now that cities are being connected by roads it very easy for one person to run to each town and instantly murder everyone.
Have you considered NOT connecting all the towns? Like, seriously. Don't do it.

The roads will be connected anyway because the game will eventually get to the point where we'll have cars.

The roads aren't the issue, the issue is how it's so easy for one single person to kill every person in a very large prosperous town with little to no effort.

Last edited by Shallotte (2018-03-24 23:13:53)

Goliath · 2018-03-25 18:41:12

you don't run slow afterwards, so its not like you can just run away.
people will kill you right back if you murder.. if they can.

stickyflypaper · 2018-03-25 22:03:41

I see this as a fascinating problem. I'm hopeful that solutions will be implemented in the (near) future.
I also second all of Shallotte's suggestions.
Some sort of Karma system would be cool. If you're a murderer in one life, you should be penalized for it in some way in your next life.

jasonrohrer · 2018-03-27 01:25:45

So... there IS (or should be) a scream when someone near you is killed.

Also, the murderer currently slows down and cannot drop the murder weapon for 10 seconds (or use it to kill anyone else during that time).

I could amp this up some more. The murderer could be slowed down for 30 seconds or more, and become REALLY slow. Or maybe so slow that they require someone to feed them?

Maybe murdering could work up an appetite as well? So that you will die afterward if someone doesn't feed you?

All that said, the danger of murder is supposed to motivate you to make better tech and organize your village.

Arrows cannot cross walls. Build walls and village gates. Limit weapons in the village only to trusted police officers (give them blue clothes). Have them guard the gate. Have them vet everyone who comes in.

How did people deal with murder in real life?

draequine · 2018-03-27 02:26:10

jasonrohrer wrote:

So... there IS (or should be) a scream when someone near you is killed.
Also, the murderer currently slows down and cannot drop the murder weapon for 10 seconds (or use it to kill anyone else during that time).
I could amp this up some more. The murderer could be slowed down for 30 seconds or more, and become REALLY slow. Or maybe so slow that they require someone to feed them?
Maybe murdering could work up an appetite as well? So that you will die afterward if someone doesn't feed you?
All that said, the danger of murder is supposed to motivate you to make better tech and organize your village.
Arrows cannot cross walls. Build walls and village gates. Limit weapons in the village only to trusted police officers (give them blue clothes). Have them guard the gate. Have them vet everyone who comes in.
How did people deal with murder in real life?

Great explanation, the amped up murder consequence can be rationalized as the effort required to kill someone or the guilt in ending a life (especially in the cases of necessary population control.) However, going overboard on the consequence would remove that kind of motivation, and make strict population control impractical.

But bows are a serious problem because of the ease of making them in comparison to the damage they can easily cause. In reality arrows wounds in accidents are seldom fatal, so I propose a nerf of some kind to arrows Vs People. Something like two arrows required to kill an adult, each arrow permanently taking half their max hunger and only retrievable once they die. Kind of a middle ground between wolves and bears.

EmmyGamba · 2018-03-27 06:24:52

jasonrohrer wrote:

Maybe murdering could work up an appetite as well? So that you will die afterward if someone doesn't feed you?

I really like the idea of fighting someone making hungry

Now you have to make sure you're fully refreshed with food and at full strenght before you kill someone. Also it would be harder for little kids or old people - which actually makes sense.

Last edited by EmmyGamba (2018-03-27 06:35:11)

Dagar · 2018-03-27 14:38:16

jasonrohrer wrote:

How did people deal with murder in real life?

I presume since you studied the topic in great lengths for the making of this game, you already know the answer, or, put more explicitly, you know why the real world analogy does not hold for this game (or any other, for that matter).
Killing in real life was and is a high risk - moderate reward strategy. You could get their stuff, and women if you cared about that, yes, but you also more likely than not would lose your life trying to accomplish that. Thus no one in their right mind would just go killing someone else unless he/she was about to starve or needed to reproduce. That is killing in the sense it is performed in the game right now and not counting accidental kills for a higher social rank, which would only involve two individuals, not a whole village dying.
In real life, you don't normally expect to re-spawn after you death (certain religions not withstanding), so the risk of your own death is not something anybody in the real world takes lightly, but in the game, you can just start over, possibly even in the village you just tried to doom - even after re-spawn, no one can recognize you for who you were in an earlier life. In real life, you suffer one of the harshest forms of punishment, in the game, you lose next to nothing.
Also, in real life stone age I think it was highly unlikely for anyone to be able to slaughter a whole village of fifteen or more people without some form of resistance. Due to several features like insta-kill, limited view window, hard to distinguish individuals and lag issues, that is pretty easy in the game.

So I think the whole real world analogy falls apart with death in this game (as in any game for that matter), so you need to come up with some form of mitigation mechanism to make it equally risky to murder someone. In game terms this inevitably means some form of penalty after death, no matter what other means (of which there are many good suggestions around here) you or the community takes to prevent murder sprees from happening in the first place.

masamune0 · 2018-03-27 14:49:15

jasonrohrer wrote:

So... there IS (or should be) a scream when someone near you is killed.
Also, the murderer currently slows down and cannot drop the murder weapon for 10 seconds (or use it to kill anyone else during that time).
I could amp this up some more. The murderer could be slowed down for 30 seconds or more, and become REALLY slow. Or maybe so slow that they require someone to feed them?

I don't hear any scream, or it has a very small range. need to be big, so at least people know something is going on.

I don't think you need to be slowed down for 30 seconds, that would be horrible, and he's already quite slow (maybe a bit slower but not that much). The action could use some food, sure why not.

Just make the killing a bit more complicated, for example have blood clothes or blood on you (could be head? since no clothes hides it) until you wash it or something with water. Or make armor possible to craft so there is a way to at least resist griefers (they could use armor too but 2 guys with armor would be horrible to deal with as a griefer, even if you have armor as griefer).

I don't mind the griefing killing (that's another surprise mechanic, and can bring stories). Because of that sometimes I become guard but most of the time nothing happens.. It was rare when I killed a griefer. First you need to know about it, which is hard because you have a very small view, the bloody tomb doesn't last at all, there is no scream..

EDIT : And oh please, make it so bow can't kill someone offscreen.

Last edited by masamune0 (2018-03-27 14:53:44)

Kinrany · 2018-03-27 16:58:56

So there are two reasons humans didn't die off IRL due to random murders.

First, humans are altruistic. Because altruism is a useful thing for a group to have, and groups that were full of psychopaths did die off. AKA evolution. I suggest we add a second property, mood, in addition to hunger, and use it to encourage players to be selfless and to punish behaviors that are negative-sum. Just having hunger isn't enough for this because mood is supposed to represent a motivation that is specifically not self-preservation.

Second, murdering other people is almost always not worth it IRL, because we have institutions that exist to pursue and punish murderers. Murders don't happen often not because people try to murder each other and fail, but because people barely ever try in the first place. The game doesn't have to regulate murder itself, it only needs to give the players the ability to coordinate and to reliably prevent and punish murder in a way that makes trying not worth it.

Last edited by Kinrany (2018-03-27 17:00:18)

jasonrohrer · 2018-03-27 20:48:43

Well, the scream is in there. I just turned its volume all the way up. That will happen in the next update.

For now, I will also really slow down the murderer more, and make their weapon-holding last longer, and make the bloody grave last longer.

I'll also reduce the range of the bow a bit.

Really, I just need to keep tweaking it until it's possible for "police work" to take place. Right now, it sounds like there's just not enough evidence to pursue or convict.

It's also interesting to think about "justice" in this game. Just like in real life, if you are murdered, you are counting on those around you (your family) to seek justice on your behalf after you are gone, but you will never know for sure that they did.

We're so used to seeking justice ourselves, on our own behalf, in video games, that this feels rather muted. But that's what getting murdered is actually like, I'm betting.

The experience of BEING murdered is sudden and frustrating and pretty horrible in this game. As it should be.

Aname · 2018-03-27 20:56:42

Just try and make Knives for the whole village so the whole village can protect himself against any griefers.

For example you give Farmers knives first because they are griefers first target
Then you give knife to the breed mother because she is mostly standing still.
then you give knife to pie maker
then you give knives to trustworthy/hard working people
as last you give knives to babys but baby is pretty risky because babys have a higher chance to be a griefer then a hardworking person.

so can the whole village defend themselfs against potential griefers-raiders

Kinrany · 2018-03-27 22:09:55

Really, I just need to keep tweaking it until it's possible for "police work" to take place. Right now, it sounds like there's just not enough evidence to pursue or convict.

What if you could only kill a single person in your life, and everyone would instantly know that? It's not clear that even in this edge case police work would take place.

veene · 2018-03-27 22:56:44

Kinrany wrote:

Really, I just need to keep tweaking it until it's possible for "police work" to take place. Right now, it sounds like there's just not enough evidence to pursue or convict.
What if you could only kill a single person in your life, and everyone would instantly know that? It's not clear that even in this edge case police work would take place.

solid idea! not sure if possible to implement

Eannatum · 2018-03-27 23:00:33

One kill knifes, three shot bows (like w/ bears)

Zwilnik · 2018-03-27 23:13:28

The issue isn't so much the realism of the sim but the reality that it's a game, where the people in it are avatars of faceless and nameless players.

That means there isn't the automatic attachment between players that you need for them to work together for the good of the community. While you do get 'proper' players who play the game as intended, you get the grievers who just want to annoy everyone.

You get this in real life too, but in the no penalty scenario of a game where you're anonymous and can mess up everyone else's game, get a ton of hits on your youtube channel and still come back and do it again you get a much higher percentage of 'psychopaths' than you would in the real world. That and it's easy for them to get weapons that will automatically kill.

Plankst · 2018-03-28 01:40:48

I honestly think it should stay the way it is because it feeds to the realism. But like stated before there should be a system where if there are people around someone who JUST murdered someone, an icon should appear above them (bloody skull). kind of like a witness system.

EmmyGamba · 2018-03-28 05:00:55

Plankst wrote:

I honestly think it should stay the way it is because it feeds to the realism.

Arguing with "realism" in a game that isn't even realistic in the first place doesn't work. In OHOL its way easier, without permanent consequences - and additonaly its not ethically wrong for most people to murder someone in a virtual enviorment. So naturally you have way more psychopaths running around, than you'd ever have in reality under similar circumstances.

As of right now the game mechanics highly favor a destructive playstyle. That needs to be balanced or we'll never even have the foundation to advance into a society organized enough to prevent such things. Imagine if in our past 30% of the population would have just keept running around, murdering people all day and destroy stuff for no reason - I'm pretty sure we would've never had a chance to become what we are today.

Murder rates within the own family/tribe have never been so high like they are here.

EmmyGamba · 2018-03-28 05:31:46

I mean with so many people going crazy and wiping out whole generations on a daily basis, we wouldn't even have survived as a species. Since there are no eves in real life.

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Re: Seriously, why is murdering people so ridiculously easy in this game?

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