Food stats are live

DestinyCall · 2019-09-13 08:18:15

If your village has rare yum foods, the best thing to do with them is to eat them while maintaining a high yum chain. If you don't eat them properly, someone else will probably eat them improperly (with little or no yum bonus). Food doesn't do anyone any good if it goes uneaten.

My main concern when I think about food efficiency is related to mass-production of food to feed the most people in the best way. Like .. if you only have so much water and so much soil and so much time ... where should you focus your efforts so that you maximize pip production while minimizing resource usage. There are some really great ways to spend your time in OHOL and some really pointless ways to spend your time. If you want to be really productive, the key is to figure out where your time can best be spent to do the most good for your village. An entire life spent making one bowl of salsa ... is not a terribly productive life. That same life spent baking mutton pies will feed a lot more people and impact many more lives.

That being said ... OHOL is a game and you should try to have fun. If you want to make ice cream or ketchup for the fun of doing it ... go for it. Even if you make a less efficient food or two, yum foods do not harm the village in small amounts, so long as someone is also producing a decent supply of better foods to feed the masses. And if someone goes nuts and makes a epic ton of tomatoes, carpet-bombing the whole village with them, by all means, eat those darn tomatoes to free up some baskets.

Tomatoes can be used for salsa, but eating them raw is just fine and, honestly, the better choice. They fall into the category of "yum only" because there are much better options that have the same production requirements. But it is perfectly fine to plant a few tomatoes and onions for quick and easy yum. You can even do this in a very early camp, since they require no special tools, but just be aware that there are better options to keep your camp fed in the long-term. And even in the short term, these plants are better for yum bonus, rather than straight consumption.

Speaking of early camps ... Carrots are a good early food. Before you get sheep, there's no reason to avoid eating carrots and they grow quickly. Corn can also work - made into popcorn once you have fire and bowls. A small berry patch is a smart investment, but keep in mind that it takes a long time for the first berries to grow, so plant the carrots FIRST, then establish a berry patch. Always plan ahead when planting berries - they will probably be there for generations. Don't just slap the patch down anywhere. And do not expand the patch too much - it makes it harder to tend the bushes. Berries and carrots can keep you alive for a while, but ideally, you want to get stew and rabbit pies ASAP. If your camp is trying to survive by farming tomatoes/carrots/onions/green beans/berries only, you will run out of dirt and water VERY fast. For rabbit pies, you can get them going using wild wheat as soon as you have rabbits available. For stew, search the prairie for wild squash, bean plants, and teosinte (wild corn). Make a crockpot or three and grow two or three rows of beans, at least one squash, and at least one corn. Try to put the bean plants away from high traffic areas or people will mis-click and scatter beans everywhere. Don't over plant the beans, since they are mostly just used for stew. You need one full row for each stew pot and one extra row for seeds. You only need one corn for each crock of stew, so feel free to roast some of your corn into popcorn.

Moving away from the topic of early camp .... potatoes and mangoes are more "civilized" food. Both crops require advanced tools - shovel for potato and knife for mango. If someone has planted a mango tree, feel free to use the mangoes for yum. There is no other purpose for mango. I'm not a fan of mango groves, since each tree requires a lot of water and takes FOREVER to produce any mangoes. In my opinion, it is a waste of time to farm mangoes. But if someone has already planted one, you might as well utilize the results. Be sure to have a high yum chain before you eat it and all will be well.

Potatoes are a better food. I would even recommend planting it in an established village at this point. It use to be one of the bad ones, due to excessive iron wastage. But this was patched by Jason, so potatoes are no longer exiled to the "bad foods" section. In fact, from a yum perspective, they offer the unique opportunity to get two yum bites from the same food, since the first half and the second half of the baked potato count as unique food items. You can also fry potato slices in hot oil to make tasty french fries. French fries are a nice food. Easy to make, as long as you have access to jungle to gather palm kernels for oil.

From a yum perspective, you should make both baked potato and french fries. You could technically also make ketchup to dip your fries, but just like salsa, it is a wasteful endeavor. Better off eating the fries and chips plain. It is boring, but efficient. And isn't that the most important thing?

pein · 2019-09-13 09:14:58

still too many people leave 1 carrot per line or overfarm it, leave 3 seed rows, plant all back and leave it rotting. this forces others to pick it, sometimes 3-4 times under 60 min which is disgusting. each time you don't leave the whole line, you waste soil so all this calculations are bad, 1 carrot makes 1 seed, 5 makes 7 but both use up the soil. also when there is no storage space people eat a few just to don't go around with it. the other issue is that there is plenty of carrots, people eat it cause "there is plenty"
the third issue is that people eat every carrot cause the berry is down, either no soil and water for it or it's currently growing back.
so it's far from the ideal planting, harvesting and seeding operation.
plus the space it needs is too much.
the way i do it is one seed behind tree, one single seed row separately
and only plant 1-2 lines at a time if im sure i will be around. it's ok to plant more but don't water it. generally ends up with others watering it.
if you see people planting too much then just sabotage it cause they idiots, not hard to count the seeds
1 row=7, 2 row 14, 3 row 21
if they say stupid shit like "there can be never enough seed" or "keep one each row" or similar then they are new, and it's not ok letting them do that cause it's generally the biggest waste of soil
either fence the seeds or hide behing tree and let people pick all off, keep one seed row only, worst case scenario you can replant it from hidden seeds, i don't see a point of planting more than 7 seeds at a time. that's 28 carrots and 7 seeds. and it's not like the extra carrots will be used on compost
carrot is only good food early camps when you need some food as Eve

as for the pies, it's correct, you can eat pies as a kid. just think about it, one wheat makes 4 pies with one water. 4 pies got 16 bites.
16 berries can feed 2.66 sheep, sure you need carrot too, but 5 carrot is same cost as 7 berries, except the seed, so even with a 2 berries=1 carrot conversion, you got above 2 berry bowls with carrot, which is enough to make compost
1 compost is 21 bowls of soil. needs 2 bowls for 2 bushes, 2 for carrot 2 for wheat. so that's a profit of 15 soil. and negative 4 water

berries don't work without compost either so you need 2 bushes on compost and 3-4 more to eat from, plus if you don't empty the bushes they don't monetize on the single advantage, that they don't need to be tilled each time, maybe they a bit more water efficient but that's not really a problem most of times

as long as you time it properly, you can eat pies as a kid
when town is low on food and plates, can be an issue, but as long as you make your own carrot pies, or at least raw pies to exchange cooked ones, no one can complain, and carrot pies are 4x better than carrots, and it isn't even a huge pip loss on kids

miskas · 2019-09-13 10:07:06

Saolin wrote:

miskas wrote:
Sorry But carnitas are the 2nd most efficient food on my end, surpassed only by milk.
http://prntscr.com/p59vlm
They consume only 1 corn to produce 48 units of food
Their problem is the vast amount of storage/space needed to produce them in quantity.
Given the values you have for berry bushes (starting from the languishing state), shouldn't the values listed next to soil and water also be 1 for both from carrots to squash for consistency of starting point (starting from hardened row, which is analogous to languishing berry bush)?

Oh crap, you are right!
http://prntscr.com/p5lp3u

By the way people milk is the most efficient food, even if you only take 2 pips from it every time you eat it!

See ya I am gonna make a cow pen.

DestinyCall · 2019-09-13 15:47:45

Yep. It is a very good food.

That's why I laugh when people worry about "wasted pips" if a kid drinks whole milk or eats a meat pie. There is no need to eat berries or popcorn when you are young/old. You can feed everyone in the village with high efficiency foods at lower cost than using less efficent foods, because the production cost is so low.

Look at the numbers for corn. Whole milk gives twenty eight times more pips than eating the shucked ear of corn raw. Good luck trying to get your yum chain high enough to make up for that big of a difference in production cost. Even if you poured out half the bucket on the ground, it is still loads better better than unprocessed corn.

Sadly, not all foods work out like this. There are several highly processsed foods that do not provide a decent return on time and resources invested in their production. Pork tacos are a good example of a food that is hard to make, but doesn't give enough pips to cover the cost of its ingredients. It is better to cook and eat carnitas directly, rather than using tortillas to make pork tacos.

Another food that many people do not realize is a BAD option is berry pie. To make pie, you make wheat dough, then put the dough on a plate to make four pie crusts. At that point you get to choose a filling. The filling determines how good the pie will taste, with carrot pie having the lowest pips per bite (7 pips) and carrot/berry/rabbit pie having the most (20 pip/bite). Each pie has four bites, so it is a very pip-dense food. However, all pie fillings can be eaten without baking in a pie, so you should choose your fillings wisely. For example, a raw carrot gives 7 pips and carrot pie gives 7 pips per bite (28 pips/pie). So that makes the pie better, but not as amazing when you consider that instead of baking four carrot pies (112 pips), you could bake bread (64 pips) and eat the four carrots raw (28 pips), so you only really gain 20 pips by making carrot pie, instead of using the wheat to make plain bread. By contrast, cooked rabbit gives 10 pips and rabbit pie is 14 pips per bite (56 pip/pie). The net gain for baking rabbit pie is a substantial 120 pips. Plus rabbit meat does not cost any iron or water or dirt to produce.

But what about berry pie? Now this is where the math gets really sad. The filling for a berry pie requires a full bowl of gooseberries. Each gooseberry gives five pips and a bowl holds six berries, so a berry pie filling costs 30 pips! That's three times the cost of a rabbit filling or carrot filling. But the berry pie only gives 12 pips per bite (48 pips/pie), so the berry pie costs a lot more to produce, but produces less food than the rabbit pie. In fact, the berry pie barely covers the cost of its ingredients. If you baked the wheat into bread (64 pips) and ate the four bowls of berries instead of cooking them (30 pips x 4 bowls = 120 pips), you gain 184 pips. If you process the wheat and berries into four berry pies, you end up with 192 pips ... only 8 pips gained through processing. Adding additional ingredients, like carrot or rabbit, makes the berry pie WORSE because the additional pip/bite is not enough to justify the higher ingredient cost. A berry/rabbit/carrot pie is worth less than the cost of its ingredients. Especially when you consider that you could make a rabbit pie and a fresh pile of compost or new sheep using the same materials.

The actual "best pie" in OHOL is the rabbit/carrot pie. It provides 19 pips/bite and the filling costs only 17 pips. In comparison, the berry/rabbit/pie has a filling cost of 47 pips! Ideally, all villages, should bake meat pies (rabbit/mutton). If you have a surplus of carrots, you can make a limited run of carrot pies and carrot/rabbit pies for yummers. But in a village with sheep, I don't recommend using carrots as a standard ingredient, raw or cooked. It is better to save them for compost production instead. And berry bowls should be used for sheep food, not people food.

Long story short ... berry pies are rubbish.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-09-13 16:03:33)

Saolin · 2019-09-13 17:25:20

FeverDog wrote:

QUESTION! If the tomatoes, potatoes and mangos are already made and sitting in a basket or on a plate, am I being wasteful by eating them to fuel my yum chain? Or is it just wasteful to make those things. You explained corn very well so I have my answer on that particular vegetable. I understand it's wasteful to make these things but once they're made the damage is already done and those three things (and maybe others I don't know about) aren't going to be used for anything important, right?

If you also have onion, pepper, and tortilla chips available, it is better to make salsa than eat the tomato raw (7 pips for tomato, 7 for onion, 0 for pepper) vs 20 pips total for salsa. However if you had to prepare these ingredients it is a lot of extra soil, water, and time to do so. Unless these ingredients are already available it isn't worth spending the extra resources for a few extra pips.

Potatoes are better made into fries: 42 pips for fries vs 12 total for both bites of a potato. Again though you'll need to have palm oil handy which will cost an extra bowl of water plus the time to gather. Not as costly as salsa and more likely to be worthwhile.

Mangoes have no purpose other than eating and making dye (at the cost of a cow, and it's purely cosmetic anyway), so just eat them if they're already around, though preferably use them for yum chain since it's a rarer food item.

Saolin · 2019-09-13 17:29:36

miskas wrote:

Saolin wrote:
miskas wrote:
Sorry But carnitas are the 2nd most efficient food on my end, surpassed only by milk.
http://prntscr.com/p59vlm
They consume only 1 corn to produce 48 units of food
Their problem is the vast amount of storage/space needed to produce them in quantity.
Given the values you have for berry bushes (starting from the languishing state), shouldn't the values listed next to soil and water also be 1 for both from carrots to squash for consistency of starting point (starting from hardened row, which is analogous to languishing berry bush)?
Oh crap, you are right!
http://prntscr.com/p5lp3u
By the way people milk is the most efficient food, even if you only take 2 pips from it every time you eat it!
See ya I am gonna make a cow pen.

Sorry, I don't mean to pick on you, but I fail to see where you get the extra 0.1 water and 0.3 soil for carrots, as well as the extra 0.2 water for beans. To me the numbers after the decimal seem like they should all be dropped. This would mean the only difference between carrot and berry is the iron use for carrot, while beans remain worse than both due to less total pips.

DestinyCall · 2019-09-13 17:38:36

I haven't looked that closely at msikas' calculations, but producing carrot seeds costs extra dirt, because the seed rows do not leave behind a hardened row. That might be where the extra soil cost comes from, compared with berries that do not have a re-seeding cost.

Anhigen · 2019-09-13 19:04:23

DestinyCall wrote:

Corn is a really amazing food that deserves a lot more attention than it receives.
[... the mfn business ...]

Holy shit, thank you for all this work!

Saolin · 2019-09-13 19:19:22

DestinyCall wrote:

One Row of Corn can equal ....
Fresh shucked corn = 20 pips
Popcorn = 48 pips
Omelettes = 76 pips
Cooked goose = 80 pips
Bowl of carnitas = 192 pips
Three Sisters Stew = 224 pips
Pork tacos = 272 pips
Tortilla chips = 480 pips
Skim Milk = 320 pips (+ butter)
Whole Milk = 560 pips

I will preface with saying I know shucked corn is one of the worse foods. I want to point out though that pip value is only part of the story and there are more factors to consider than just total pips. For example:

Fresh shucked corn: 20 pips, 1 bowl of water, 1 bowl of soil. 20 pips per water/soil.

Popcorn: 48 pips, 1 bowl of water, 1 bowl of soil. 48 pips per water/soil

Three sisters stew (4 pots): 896 pips, 13 bowls of water, 9 bowls of soil. 69 pips per water, 100 pips per soil.

Tortilla chips: 480 pips, 9 bowls of water, 1 bowl of soil. 53 pips per water, 480 pips per soil.

Whole milk (8 buckets): 1120 pips, 5 bowls of water, 1 bowl of soil. 224 pips per water, 1120 pips per soil.

Additionally you have iron usage (generally equivalent to soil usage), clay usage for bowls, plates, and crock pots, limestone usage, and bucket usage, etc, and TIME. These are all additional costs that are harder to quantify. How do you compare the value of an item that requires clay to one that doesn't? Time to gather, difficulty to acquire? Those are highly variable and difficult to gauge. How about a bucket or rabbit snare that has high initial cost, but gives unlimited value? Again, hard to compare.

Aside from milk, which I think we can all probably agree is outrageous value (and you would only need two buckets at once), the ratio of cost to value is compressed compared to just looking at value and ignoring cost. Yeah shucked corn is still pretty bad, but it does have the lowest cost. Tortilla chips and popcorn is an interesting comparison. Similar water value, but the cost of the massively favorable soil ratio is at least 5 clay bowls, one with palm oil (likely multiple bowls of palm oil unless you were gonna cook a whole corn plant at once), 16 uses of shears, as well as the additional processing time to prepare the chips, in addition to other factors such as kindling usage. Given this I would argue that popcorn actually seems to be a superior food item to tortilla chips despite the massive amount of pips it gives compared to popcorn. Now I don't think anyone was really arguing tortilla chips are great or anything, I am just trying to illustrate that there is a lot more to consider than just the pips yielded when comparing food items.

-------

On another note, for your feeding meat pies to babies idea, I just want to point out that feeding a mutton pie to a baby is less efficient than feeding a berry, ignoring the wheat cost even. To make one mutton pie costs 1.5 berries and 0.25 carrots compared to, obviously, just 1 berry. Carrot pies would actually be better as it just costs 0.25 carrots, but I think the wheat cost still makes them less efficient than berries for baby. Plain rabbit pies are harder to quantify, since rabbits are fairly free resource once the snare is made, though they do take time to procure which is the difficulty in evaluating them. Plain rabbit pie is probably not bad to feed a baby. Actually I suspect it's still worse than a berry just considering the cost of the wheat so I'll compare that quickly. It costs 0.5 soil and 0.5 water to make the dough for 1 pie. It costs 1/7 water and 1/7 soil for 1 berry. Just the pie crust alone is more than 3x as expensive as a berry. So feeding any pie to a baby is actually quite inefficient compared to berries unless I'm missing something.

Last edited by Saolin (2019-09-13 19:45:09)

Saolin · 2019-09-13 19:38:56

DestinyCall wrote:

I haven't looked that closely at msikas' calculations, but producing carrot seeds costs extra dirt, because the seed rows do not leave behind a hardened row. That might be where the extra soil cost comes from, compared with berries that do not have a re-seeding cost.

Ok that explains it. My mistake, thanks.

Also I didn't know before you mentioned it that a cow can be fed a bowl of water to produce extra milk!

DestinyCall · 2019-09-13 20:25:29

The window of opportunity is very brief, because the cow is only a "dry dairy cow" for a short time - few seconds. If you are not fast enough, it turns back into a regular cow and you lose your chance.

However, keep in mind that it is actually more resource efficient to only feed corn. One row of corn costs dirt and a bowl of water, but produces four ears of corn. So you can get four buckets of milk for a single bowl of water. If you water the cow to get more milk, the water efficiency goes way down.

The main advantage of watering the cow is that it saves time.

So if you spent your youth farming milkweed to make a ton of rope for buckets, then spent your adult years building the cow pen and hunting for a buffalo, only to finally get the cow ready to milk in your late fifties ... you might only have one shot at filling all four buckets before you die of old age. In this case, knowing that you can rapidly re-water the cow can be a great thing, because you might be the only one who knows how to use a dairy cow. And it will let you get all the buckets filled in one session so you can finish up and say your goodbyes while sipping a warm bowl of milk, surrounded by full milk buckets.

But as a general rule, there is no need to do it, unless you have a lot of buckets ready and you want the thrill of racing the clock!

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-09-13 20:33:55)

Saolin · 2019-09-13 20:59:40

Hmm, I realized that in my comparison of a berry to an empty pie crust I forgot to consider that a pie is 4 bites, so actually it is only 1/8 soil and 1/8 water for a single bite of pie when just considering the crust. Perhaps some pies are not that bad to feed a baby at all. The best ones would still be plain rabbit or plain carrot.

Edit: I also made the same mistake considering the mutton pie.

Last edited by Saolin (2019-09-13 21:29:29)

Anhigen · 2019-09-13 21:11:23

Saolin wrote:

Hmm, I realized that in my comparison of a berry to an empty pie crust I forgot to consider that a pie is 4 bites, so actually it is only 1/8 soil and 1/8 water for a single bite of pie when just considering the crust. Perhaps some pies are not that bad to feed a baby at all. The best ones would still be plain rabbit or plain carrot.

Right? And that's what Destiny mentions, non-berry pies are a great food source--for everyone! It's so counter intuitive (the tutorial might not help here either...) but that's why this game is a such a cool toy/tool. It's such a great cost analysis demonstration. Wrapping my head around the usefulness of corn, a crop I currently don't interact with at all, is forcing me to think about "value" differently.

We're still flushing out the gamepedia but this such good information! Can't wait to row me some corn now.

DestinyCall · 2019-09-13 22:50:14

Saolin wrote:

Hmm, I realized that in my comparison of a berry to an empty pie crust I forgot to consider that a pie is 4 bites, so actually it is only 1/8 soil and 1/8 water for a single bite of pie when just considering the crust. Perhaps some pies are not that bad to feed a baby at all. The best ones would still be plain rabbit or plain carrot.
Edit: I also made the same mistake considering the mutton pie.

Another thing to consider when looking at the true cost of mutton pie ... the compost cycle.

Currently, the only way to produce composted dirt is to feed a bowl of berries and carrots to a sheep to make it poop. If you feed an adult sheep, it regrows its wool. If you feed a baby sheep, it grows into an adult sheep which can be sheared for wool OR slaughtered for mutton.

This means that for all practical purposes, mutton (and wheat) is a free byproduct of the composting cycle. Every time you make a new sheep, you gain the ability to make more compost, which grants seven baskets of dirt. Each basket hold three bowls of dirt. So one sheep poop makes 21 bowls of dirt. That means when you produce mutton, you do not lose dirt. You actually gain it!

That is why I always talk about "meat pies" instead or "rabbit pies" or "rabbit and carrot pies". Mutton pie is effectively free food and rabbit pie is almost as good

Carrot pies are okay and rabbit/carrot pies are amazing, but if there is any rabbit or mutton in the village, you should be using those as your primary pie fillings. Save the carrots for feeding baby sheep and use the composted soil to raise more wheat, carrots, berries, and stew crops. If you have sheep, but no mutton, somebody needs to pay attention to the sheep pen. Stop feeding adult sheep and start slaughtering excess sheep, so your baker has enough work to keep him busy for a while.

Saolin · 2019-09-13 23:42:55

That's a good point about the mutton, wheat, and compost cycle. Anyway fwiw I was talking about plain carrot and plain rabbit as being the best option for feeding babies specifically, though it seems like mutton should also be included. For adults rabbit and carrot/rabbit are the best, though i may have to reconsider where mutton pie ranks.

DestinyCall · 2019-09-14 01:21:20

Saolin wrote:

That's a good point about the mutton, wheat, and compost cycle. Anyway fwiw I was talking about plain carrot and plain rabbit as being the best option for feeding babies specifically, though it seems like mutton should also be included. For adults rabbit and carrot/rabbit are the best, though i may have to reconsider where mutton pie ranks.

Wair ... you mean feeding a baby a roasted rabbit or a raw carrot? Why would you do that when the pies are so much better?

For the cost of 1/4 wheat and 1/4 water, you can turn a one bite carrot into a four bite carrot pie. That seems like a very reasonable exchange. Rabbit pie has an even better return for the same cost. Rabbits are essentially free also. A byproduct of backpack and lioncloth production. You have to do something with the meat or it will just sit there in an inedible state indefinately. Same thing with wheat. The question isn't really how much the wheat costs to produce, but what is the best use for the wheat that your village will naturally generate in excess.

Meat pies are the clear winner, both from a raw pips standpoint and from a resource efficiency standpoint. You gain no real benefit from baking bread, making burritos, or baking other types of pies, beyond providing more yum options and general food variety.

When feeding a baby, mother's milk is always best. Next best option is cow's milk. After that, meat pies.

You will have strong, manly babies, raised on savory pies.

Saolin · 2019-09-14 02:23:44

DestinyCall wrote:

Saolin wrote:
That's a good point about the mutton, wheat, and compost cycle. Anyway fwiw I was talking about plain carrot and plain rabbit as being the best option for feeding babies specifically, though it seems like mutton should also be included. For adults rabbit and carrot/rabbit are the best, though i may have to reconsider where mutton pie ranks.

Wair ... you mean feeding a baby a roasted rabbit or a raw carrot? Why would you do that when the pies are so much better?

No, lol that would be terrible. When I'm talking about plain rabbit or plain carrot i'm referring to the pies. Before you brought up this revelation about certain pies being efficient for babies, i saw baby food ranking as Milk -> Popcorn -> Berries, with everything else basically being terrible to feed babies unless desperate. I suppose cow's milk is probably also suitable baby food given the incredible value to cost ratio.

Morti · 2019-09-14 05:47:13

Here is an idea, and a question for those of you that like to do value calculations considering water, soil, iron, clay, time, etc.

another type of animal feed for sheep,

and/or

another recipe for compost.

Here is the first thing that comes to mind.

Bowl of Wheat + Bowl with Corn Kernels = Bowl of Animal Feed + Clay Bowl

However, most animal feeds tend to use soybeans, but for all the potential uses of a new crop, like Soybeans, I'd instead like to know what could be of equal and comparative value, to that of the two bowls of gooseberries and carrot that it takes to make a pile of composting compost.

The upside of the current method of making compost is the easy of creation, the potential for consumption of the ingredients raw; berries and carrots, as well as the potential to gather these things and potentially make compost without ever needing to farm berries or carrots, from their wild counterparts.

We lose that with corn, as teosinte seed does not seem a reasonable substitute for the bulk mass of modern corn.

There is also the labor/time to consider, the picking of berries to fill a bowl twice is something that shouldn't be overlooked. This discourages people from the task, which, I think is a good thing, in that it challenges new players to avoid the easy route of just eating raw gooseberries and carrots, and instead turning them into feed, compost and pies. So maybe an additional step, or more, to
Bowl of Wheat + Bowl with Corn Kernels = Bowl of Animal Feed + Empty Bowl
say
Bowl of Wheat + Empty Bucket = Bucket with Wheat + Clay Bowl
Bowl with Corn Kernels + Bucket with Wheat = Bucket of Feed + Clay Bowl
and the other order of that, with
Bucket with Corn Kernels + Bowl of Wheat = Bucket of Feed + Clay Bowl
as well as
Bucket with Corn Kernels + Bucket with Wheat = Bucket of Feed + Empty Bucket
and
Bucket with Wheat + Bucket with Corn Kernels = Bucket of Feed + Empty Bucket

But this still seems like it'd be too easy.

People aren't snatching up wheat and corn nearly as much as they are gooseberries and carrots, although, the wheat is using up a full tilled row, whereas the corn is consuming 1/8 of a tilled row, as well as the space for drying. Do shucked ears of corn dry in slotted boxes? That I don't know. I think they would, just like the timers on bits of clothing placed in boxes, still carry on. If they do, a slotted box near the corn rows could be useful, rather than splaying the shucked ears across the ground, as we often see.

I still feel like soybeans should be used, either in addition to wheat, or, instead of it.

I'd prefer we had different types of beans
Soybeans (Fabaceae Glycine max)
Green Beans (Fabaceae Phaseolus vulgaris)
Black Beans (a variety of Fabaceae Phaseolus vulgaris)
Kidney Beans (another variety of Fabaceae Phaseolus vulgaris)
Pinto Beans (yet, another variety of Fabaceae Phaseolus vulgaris)
even White, Navy or Great Northern Beans (which is, no surprise, another variety of Fabaceae Phaseolus vulgaris)

But, right now the Green Beans and, what might be Pinto or Kidney Beans, are basically being treated as the same plant.
Starting with Wild Beans we get Bean Sprouts which mature into Green Bean Plants which after being winnowed, soaked and cooked, get used much the same way Black, Pinto or even Kidney beans are commonly used.

Heck, what about planting them in a hardened row, watering and then tilling them in when they mature, with a hoe, to make a Deep Tilled Row?

I think Soybeans are distinct enough from the "Common Bean" that they deserve their own wild source, but let's say, if you wanted to use them in animal feed for pigs, cows, sheep, geese, or even turkey or chicken or rabbits, eventually, you go through the same steps of planting watering and harvesting them, minus the stage where you get a bowl of green beans. You let the plant dry, fill a bowl, use a stone to get bowl of soybeans with chaff and either add that to your empty bucket, bucket of wheat, bucket of corn or bucket of wheat and corn, or winnow them and add the cleaned beans?

There are so many possibilities here. But I think new methods of composting deserves it's own thread. I think cow and pig's should produce manure, and that should be usable, heck, all animals should really produce dung after being fed. But the big ones are the more obvious ones; Cows, Pigs and Sheep, for now. I'd love if we could breed horses, but, we don't have that for now, nor do we have to feed them.

Few more useful links for ideas on the topic of animal feed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fodder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feed_manufacturing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_feed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorghum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barley
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice

And for a comparison of Soybeans to other crops, clipped this from the wiki.

So, while this thread is mostly about what foods people are eating, I figure DestinyCall, Saolin and the rest of you discussing the values of foods based on their ease of production, would be just the folks to weigh in on this.

I've lost my reddit account and I'm not really interested in making another, I barely even used the site when I had an account there, so if Jason is adamant on only taking suggestions from the game's reddit page, then maybe one of you could go over there and make something on this, either, on the addition of Soybeans, new animal feed recipes, the ability to till till bean sprouts into the soil to act as fertilizer, say, for hardened rows, or anything else.

And since I know people have brought it up in the past, yes, buckets are highly valuable, and we should also have a new recipe for rope as well, but I've made those suggestions before, tied it into clothing as well, and we got the loom, but no new plants for textiles. Cotton, flax and hemp are the obvious ones, silk would be a fun one to try and make, but, we're on the verge of plastics, and with them, things like nylon and polyester are soon TM approaching. Not to mention there's rayon, which could be made from the cellulose from wood shavings, now that we have those and paper...

Too much for one comment. Come on Jason, get on your ass and start drawing again.

DestinyCall · 2019-09-14 07:01:11

Honestly, I would love to see domestic animals completely re-worked so that the cow provides milk AND LEATHER, the pig is a good food source (right now it is no longer source of trash, but it isn't actually good), and the sheep is reworked to be more focused on wool production, instead of being the only important domestic animal, because it does EVERYTHING. All animals should poop. That's just life. Either they poop on command like now or, even better, they should poop occasionally without interaction and poop should decay naturally over time. Have a lot of animals, end up with too much poop. The pig could poop more often, the cow less often, the sheep somewhere in between. Feeding animals would be done to make them reproduce and to stimulate milk production or wool production.

Butchering a cow provides meat and leather. Butchering a sheep produces meat and sheepskin. Butchering a pig provides meat and fat. There are many potential uses for fat/lard, both for cooking and for industry. Leather could be used for all sorts of crafting and clothing options. Meanwhile, the sheep is no longer the center of everything, because you have important uses for ALL types of animals and a reason to want to keep them around.

.....

Regarding your idea for a new type of animal feed. I like it. I have never liked the "gooseberry and carrot" food for sheep. Honestly, it is stupid. I have goats and I've had sheep. I would never feed them a bowl of gooseberries and carrots. It wouldn't kill them (probably, sheep are pretty easy to kill), but it isn't good for them. Wheat and corn is much closer to what you actually find in a commercial animal feed. It is balanced out with other things, but in the world of OHOL, it is a reasonable stand. I like it WAY better than the gooseberry/carrot bowl and I think adding the wheat is a reasonable choice for the bowl of corn kernels. Corn alone is not a balanced diet. It is a treat, but not a good staple. Using wheat in this way would make sense and also raise the cost of animal production - a single ear of corn is a very cheap price to pay for a new animal. Adding the cost of one wheat makes the price higher, but not unreasonable. You would not want to go nuts with the animal production, but it is still very reasonable. I would not add the requirement to add beans, however. It might make a more balanced diet for the animals, but it would make animal feed too expensive. If you wanted animal feed to contain more than two ingredients, then I would suggest taking it one step further - mix the ingredients in a crockpot and have the result be a crockpot filled with animal feed. Add a bowl of wheat, a bowl of corn, a bowl of cleaned beans, and mix it using a stomper to produce a full crock of animal feed.

But I'd say that the bowl of wheat + bowl of corn would be perfectly reasonable as feed.

Dodge · 2019-09-14 07:21:03

DestinyCall wrote:

All animals should poop. That's just life.

Yes it's true in real life but from a gameplay point of view is it a good thing that all animals poop?

I guess since poop is not really the bottleneck but more the iron for the shovel then it doesn't matter much but imagine the clutter if all animals poop or even if they pooped without needing to be fed, that would be a nightmare.

What could be interesting is if you needed to feed them twice (one time to give a baby and second time feeding the baby) but they would give more ressources (same meat but 4 ball of thread per fleece).

There's always an unbalance with the ammount of fleece needed for clothes and the meat produced also animals not making babies all the time would greatly reduce clutter in the pens, with this you could even have one pen for every animal.

DestinyCall · 2019-09-14 07:29:46

Keep in mind, if they naturally pooped, then I would also want the poop to natural decay away if not used within a certain timeframe. I think it is silly that we control when and how much the sheep poop. Yes, if you had a huge pen full of sheep, it would get cluttered with sheep dung ... that is also quite realistic. You would want to balance the sheep population to avoid over-crowding. Build a larger pen or keep fewer sheep.

....

I would LOVE to get more than one ball of thread from an entire sheep. That would be lovely. I'd also like the ability to cut a ball of thread to make individual threads for recipes that specifically require thread, so advanced towns could move away from milkweed farming. And I'd LOVE some other way to make a rope.

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