Will we get content soon?

Dodge · 2019-07-04 08:15:21

RodneyC86 wrote:

There's the issue of redundancy though. Griefing becomes a bigger issue if every member is vital to survival. Killing any member will be a major blow to a small village. And with current combat mechanics of attacker ALWAYS winning, even if it's an 8 year old Vs a 30 year old man with prime strength, griefing will be magnified i'm afraid

It does make it more challenging, but neighbor villages have skilled people aswell, also eventually there wouldn't be only one farmer or one baker but at least 2-3 per village and if they are all in individual locked houses then killing them would be really difficult.

But i agree that killing is unbalanced, i proposed on github pads being able to be carried so we can have official medics we'll see if it's added.

RodneyC86 · 2019-07-04 08:19:57

Dodge wrote:

RodneyC86 wrote:
There's the issue of redundancy though. Griefing becomes a bigger issue if every member is vital to survival. Killing any member will be a major blow to a small village. And with current combat mechanics of attacker ALWAYS winning, even if it's an 8 year old Vs a 30 year old man with prime strength, griefing will be magnified i'm afraid

It does make it more challenging, but neighbor villages have skilled people aswell, also eventually there wouldn't be only one farmer or one baker but at least 2-3 per village and if they are all in individual locked houses then killing them would be really difficult.
But i agree that killing is unbalanced, i proposed on github pads being able to be carried so we can have official medics we'll see if it's added.

It can already be carried right?

Edit: may 24 update made bowl of sterile pads able to be picked up

Last edited by RodneyC86 (2019-07-04 08:22:24)

Tarr · 2019-07-04 08:23:28

RodneyC86 wrote:

It can already be carried right?

Well Dodge is talking about something Jason was discussing about letting us carry a sterile pad in the red cross apron. You know how a backpack holds a sword? It would work like that so it would be possible to carry a single sterile pad around hands free while keeping the thread or knife in your apron pocket.

Basically a nice QoL buff to make medics more useful instead of it being about getting a person to the right place at the right time.

testo · 2019-07-04 08:25:20

RodneyC86 wrote:

testo wrote:
Dodge wrote:
Or the crafting mechanic could be easier but at the same time more limited.
It makes no sense that a farmer can at the same time be smith, engineer, cook, tailor etc.
In real life these skills are learned in a lifetime and take practice to get right but you cant do everything, if your parents are farmer then you learn it at a young age then you decide what you want to do in life, but you will have already better knowledge of farming.
There is a reason we have specializations in real life and that's one of the reasons we trade.
It's not about some players being against war, this game simulates civilisations, war is part of human civilisation history, why did they happen?
Most of the time because of ressources or territory which equals ressources, so if they are infinite no war will happen, also having every village built being culled over and over again is not interesting, it's like a forced wipe every 2-3 days.
There is no long term goal or consequences in the game atm it's just a perpetual reset with no way to prevent it.
Give this man a cookie, he is holding the right tree. The game crafting mechanic is flawled, hence, tech design is not a thing but a short linear progression.
What if you actually had to master making certain tools (like make a full set of steel tools or make a number of them) to unlock the ability to craft a Newcomen Core. Holy molly, then it is actually quite important who gets to make those extra shovel and axe.
What about a restriction to harvest to those that actually planted a similar seed... Hey! farming not so cheap anymore is it?
What if you had to learn how to use a bow and arrow on a human by first humting every other animal. Hey, war archers become a real job now... (Also prevents griefing since you need to kill a seal, rabbit, mouflon, wolf, bison, turkey and bear just to start using the bow on people).
I doesn´t make any sense that a 4 year old jumps out of fire, picks a bowl of berries and starts crafting an engine. None.
However, all this model requires smart design on the crafting and tech tree. As it stands in the game, crafting is limited exclusively by resources, wich is a ridiculous way to model civilization.
There's the issue of redundancy though. Griefing becomes a bigger issue if every member is vital to survival. Killing any member will be a major blow to a small village. And with current combat mechanics of attacker ALWAYS winning, even if it's an 8 year old Vs a 30 year old man with prime strength, griefing will be magnified i'm afraid

I believe griefing can´t be erased. But it can be stronly discouraged (ie high penalty for the 8 year old killing a 30 year old man). There is also the time cost involved: most griefers aren´t dalol or toxic´s level of dedication, they are just in for a quick fix of "I can just shit around your work and you don´t get to defend yourself because anonymity trololol". So I disagree about an increase in griefing under this idea.

RodneyC86 · 2019-07-04 08:25:37

Tarr wrote:

RodneyC86 wrote:
It can already be carried right?
Well Dodge is talking about something Jason was discussing about letting us carry a sterile pad in the red cross apron. You know how a backpack holds a sword? It would work like that so it would be possible to carry a single sterile pad around hands free while keeping the thread or knife in your apron pocket.
Basically a nice QoL buff to make medics more useful instead of it being about getting a person to the right place at the right time.

Ah ... I see. Though I think there will be more hoops to jump through. Like little sterile paper bags you see in hospital CSSD units.

Tarr · 2019-07-04 08:32:56

RodneyC86 wrote:

Tarr wrote:
RodneyC86 wrote:
It can already be carried right?
Well Dodge is talking about something Jason was discussing about letting us carry a sterile pad in the red cross apron. You know how a backpack holds a sword? It would work like that so it would be possible to carry a single sterile pad around hands free while keeping the thread or knife in your apron pocket.
Basically a nice QoL buff to make medics more useful instead of it being about getting a person to the right place at the right time.
Ah ... I see. Though I think there will be more hoops to jump through. Like little sterile paper bags you see in hospital CSSD units.

Nah, that specific situation was brought up as a potential thing he was going to do this week but I haven't yet seen it pop up on github as a fix. If you want multiple pads you have to carry the bowl around and if you just want a single emergency pad you can wear an apron (at the cost of being without a proper shirt.)

testo · 2019-07-04 09:00:04

there Tarr I answered the call... XD

JonySky · 2019-07-04 10:50:22

There are things in OHOL more serious than the update of the war swords

lack of coherence
logical lack
lack a vision of the future
missing a clear "goal"
lack solid bases in the approach of the game
when we have reached the top of the technological tree in the cities we do the most ?, what challenges do we have?

When I play, I see that there is something that does not fit, the game is not coherent
and that disturbs me much more than when someone ends my life with a sword

It baffles me to be doing tons of food in a simple way in a survival game (pies)
It baffles me to know that I can survive years and years of berries
have airplanes and continue cooking in embers or an adobe oven is not logical
we can drive a car but I need to rub 2 sticks to create a bonfire
I am surprised that there is talk of promoting trade but instead we are motivating racism and the instantaneous death of foreigners
I keep trying to understand why the dogs, the cards, the fish, the morse code issuer, the rubber balls, trains, etc. were implemented ...
Why are new contradictory mechanics implemented? for example LANGUAGE + APPROACH OF CITIES and WAR SWORDS
this we have already spoken a thousand times

Honestly if someone asks me in what time the game is set, I will not answer it
I do not know if I'm even on Earth or on Saturn, in the past the future
I do not know if the game follows the steps of our civilization or is totally different or random
I do not know if it's a magical world or represents reality

I confess that when I saw the update of the vehicles and airplanes I became very demoralized
I always thought that this game would follow an evolutionary logic and would not turn into a clutter of random new objects without any reason
And to all this we have to add the disorder of the cities ... (I spend less time creating a new object than looking for it)

you have to solve this before creating more meaningless objects
because creating more objects in OHOL ... right now it only means more mess
If this lack of new content solves the problem with the main approach of the game, welcome it!

Last edited by JonySky (2019-07-04 13:52:29)

testo · 2019-07-04 13:22:34

Polishing existing unused objects is a lot better than adding new ones for now. Consider unused food, pine constructions, dogs, fences, pigs, letters, paint for walls, tracks, locks, property gates, fishing. All of them are pretty side content that could be useful with a little rework. I am not even talking about the mother of wasteful content: wheelbarrow.

AdelaSkarupa · 2019-07-04 13:33:43

testo wrote:

I doesn´t make any sense that a 4 year old jumps out of fire, picks a bowl of berries and starts crafting an engine. None.

I guess I've changed my mind on the skill system. This does make sense to me. I agree that there should be a system that forces a progressive crafting and I suppose that would be a skill system. I just don't think the skill system should be so restrictive that you can learn only one trade. It should be possible to be the jack of all trades, master of none, and it should be possible to focus a whole life on being the engineer.

MistressZues · 2019-07-04 14:35:48

AdelaSkarupa wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
causalities of war will hurt your genetic score).
It is consistent. That gives you the genetic incentive to win the war.

NO not really since with the eve spawn update you will be born to the same famiy you just murdered while the war is still going on

AdelaSkarupa · 2019-07-04 15:27:54

I'm not saying that it's advisable to start a war. As was mentioned earlier, you may not start one but someone will. When attacks do come, if you care about your score, you will be incentivised to do whatever it takes to preserve the greatest number of relatives. Playing the role of medic is good, but then the attack continues until you have no pads. Just running away won't help because your dead relatives count against you. The score is a reason to stay and fight.

And if you die and are born into the other family, your best scoring option now is to change sides. Loyalty is a fickle thing.

Last edited by AdelaSkarupa (2019-07-04 15:29:16)

testo · 2019-07-04 15:31:42

AdelaSkarupa wrote:

testo wrote:
I doesn´t make any sense that a 4 year old jumps out of fire, picks a bowl of berries and starts crafting an engine. None.
I guess I've changed my mind on the skill system. This does make sense to me. I agree that there should be a system that forces a progressive crafting and I suppose that would be a skill system. I just don't think the skill system should be so restrictive that you can learn only one trade. It should be possible to be the jack of all trades, master of none, and it should be possible to focus a whole life on being the engineer.

It is all good to be a jack of all trades, and maybe master of one. It is just not realistic being able to do anything at any age for everyone. The biggest crafting control beside available resources is not being able to pick a knife, rocks or a Newcomen core while under 12-14, wich is actually a good byproduct from childhood modeling.

AdelaSkarupa · 2019-07-04 15:36:52

testo wrote:

AdelaSkarupa wrote:
testo wrote:
I doesn´t make any sense that a 4 year old jumps out of fire, picks a bowl of berries and starts crafting an engine. None.
I guess I've changed my mind on the skill system. This does make sense to me. I agree that there should be a system that forces a progressive crafting and I suppose that would be a skill system. I just don't think the skill system should be so restrictive that you can learn only one trade. It should be possible to be the jack of all trades, master of none, and it should be possible to focus a whole life on being the engineer.
It is all good to be a jack of all trades, and maybe master of one. It is just not realistic being able to do anything at any age for everyone. The biggest crafting control beside available resources is not being able to pick a knife, rocks or a Newcomen core while under 12-14, wich is actually a good byproduct from childhood modeling.

I agree completely. The physical abilities are being simulated but the accumulation of knowledge is not.

JonySky · 2019-07-04 16:39:35

Until we know where OHOL is going, it does not make sense to implement new mechanics

what is the use of creating a new mechanics of specific professions or learning by ages if we have cities with everything necessary in the third or fourth generation
what is the use of having an exclusive profession of baker, if in 10 minutes of play you can create tons of cakes to feed all the cities of OHOL for months

Besides, this will generate extreme boredom in the players, since they can not easily change their profession ...
also, remember the disorder that exists in the cities (it is easier to create a shovel from 0, than not to look for it in the absolute disorder of the cities)

imagine this situation: you need a shovel and you ask the blacksmith ... the smith has just created a shovel, and your brother has taken it away to look for rocks
the blacksmith will answer you ... I just created a shovel look for it!
What do you do in that situation? Are you waiting for your brother to come back with that shovel?
Now, if I do not find a shovel, in 5 minutes I build one and I can continue to bury my mother, in this way I will be able to continue living as a creator of backpacks

I'm thinking about a lot of odious situations:

The one who takes care of the sheep, should take care of the sheep all his life ... (even if no more sheep are needed, the pastor will be condemned to do that)
grow carrots and berries !! ... prepare for your 60 most boring minutes of your life! because in that life your learning has been that
People will ask others to create objects, but remember that communication in OHOL is not simple or practical and our projects can not be completed at 60 years

no thanks, I do not want to stay tied to a profession

possibly some of you will think that I am very radical, and that the one who learns to make cakes can also learn to make tools ... but if that is so ... this system does not make any sense ... because we will have the current situation again. .. that everyone can do everything, so I do not think it is necessary to implement this mechanics until the game is defined

Last edited by JonySky (2019-07-04 16:54:52)

Dodge · 2019-07-04 17:08:37

@JonySky

That's the point, we can reach the end of the tech tree in under 10 gens that's crazy.

But if there was professions and a skill system then it would require multiple generations to reach that level of knowledge.

The blacksmith wouldn't just give you a shovel if he's not stupid he would trade it for food or something else he needs, so he would only give it to you when you bring him the goods.

Which would be locked in his workshop, so nobody can just yoink stuff.

As for doing one profession your whole life, your not forced too, it's the same in real life, you're not even forced to work but then you have to find a way to make it, like survive on wild foods, or trade basic ressources.

If you really wanted to do another profession you could but you would start without the skill from your parents, so you would waste a lot more ressources than if you did the proffession where you already have skill in.

JonySky · 2019-07-04 17:27:17

Dodge wrote:

@JonySky
That's the point, we can reach the end of the tech tree in under 10 gens that's crazy.
But if there was professions and a skill system then it would require multiple generations to reach that level of knowledge.
The blacksmith wouldn't just give you a shovel if he's not stupid he would trade it for food or something else he needs, so he would only give it to you when you bring him the goods.
Which would be locked in his workshop, so nobody can just yoink stuff.
As for doing one profession your whole life, your not forced too, it's the same in real life, you're not even forced to work but then you have to find a way to make it, like survive on wild foods, or trade basic ressources.
If you really wanted to do another profession you could but you would start without the skill from your parents, so you would waste a lot more ressources than if you did the proffession where you already have skill in.

I understand what you want to tell me, but in the current OHOL it is unfeasible
the situations where you would end up hating this system are many

imagine a griefer as a blacksmith
would be the closest thing to have in a locked room all the iron, tools and hardware of the smithy
no walls would be necessary to prohibit the use of the most essential things in a city
Nobody could create a tool or a bomb because only the blacksmith could do it, so he decided not to do anything!

you tell me that you can learn other professions, but here are things that I do not see well:
we have 60 minutes and a part of those minutes we are babies and children fighting for food ... you want to cut more that time of fun in learning a profession?
if we can learn several professions, we are exactly the same as now ... everyone can do everything
How do we solve the early camps?
and girls / mothers who travel alone to create new towns?
in OHOL there are few essential professions (pastor, farmer and blacksmith)
and if you diversify a lot these professions it will be a pain to do anything in the game and you will get 20 people talking in a bonfire without doing anything

I see many problems and we do not solve the main problem of OHOL

Where are we going?
What kind of game are we playing?
What is the future of OHOL?

When we have these clear answers, we will have the right solutions
there is no need to turn continuously without a fixed direction

Dodge · 2019-07-04 17:43:48

@JonySky

You can imagine a griefer in any situation and it will be bad.

But with about 80 players in the game on a regular basis, there wouldn't be only one blacksmith in the whole world.

I forgot to mention something the way i see it the world should be much smaller and not almost infinite like currently.

So suppose there is only one blacksmith in the village and for some reason he is a griefer and decides to lock his workshop, you could travel to the closest village and try to communicate with the neighbor village blacksmith to trade tools.

You could learn any profession you want but at the beginning you start as a rookie who makes mistakes, is inneficcient and waste ressources and also doesn't know the more advanced recipes.

Where are we going? :

Currently we are going in circle, start civilisation, it ends up dying, it gets erased, start over.

How i see it: Limited map, limited ressources, no map culling, in the beginning plenty of ressources but low skill and eventually high skill but low ressources. So in end game you have to organise a society, with trade and efficient work to not waste the limited ressources.

If you play smart civilisations survive and thrive

If you dont, you waste ressources and eventually everything dies and apocalypse is the only solution.

What kind of game are we playing? :

Simulation of human civilisations

But right now lacks depth or any need for more advanced system or goverment

This could be partly solved with limited world and ressources and also professions.

Since they would require to play smart instead of being a robot player that farms or bake pies.

What is the future of OHOL?:

Good, hopefully.

AdelaSkarupa · 2019-07-04 18:11:09

I think the issue you're having is that you imagine only one people will learn a particular skill. Also, I think basic things shouldn't require any skill building at all. Farming is basic and requires really no buildup. It's the more intense crafting that would require skills.

So that's really where trade comes in. Why do you or why does any person do the particular job they do? To make money and put food on the table. You didn't farm the vegetables or slaughter the animals, you traded for your basic staples. If you've spent the time building your blacksmith skill, you haven't been baking pies. You trade for pies.

I agree with what Dodge is saying. We should be forced to cooperate across generations in order to climb the tech tree. We shouldn't have a whole city built with kerosene, cars, and planes in just a couple generations. I don't fully agree that an unskilled worker should create waste though. That might discourage progress. Maybe if the waste they generated is recyclable.

Dodge · 2019-07-04 18:15:28

@AdelaSkarupa

I didn't mean waste as in garbage but something like the hoe breaks faster if your a rookie farmer or you only make 2 pies with one wheat if you're a rookie baker compared to an experienced one that could make 5-6 pies with one wheat, just an example.

AdelaSkarupa · 2019-07-04 18:20:22

Dodge wrote:

@AdelaSkarupa
I didn't mean waste as in garbage but something like the hoe breaks faster if your a rookie farmer or you only make 2 pies with one wheat if you're a rookie baker compared to an experienced one that could make 5-6 pies with one wheat, just an example.

Imagine if a rookie baker comes into the kitchen and you have one or two skilled bakers. They're going to chase the new guy out before he can skill build. Then your bakers die of old age and a rookie comes in and bottlenecks the food supply.

Now imagine that you go to put the dough on the plate and it just makes something like "Messy dough on plate", then you have to return it to the bowl and try again. I think these little types of recoverable frustrations are enough to add a bit of a speed bump without discouraging progress and cooperation.

MultiLife · 2019-07-04 18:35:32

Aghh, I just don't like the approach of "your character does a thing bad until you grind it enough to be good", and have that repeat every life. I personally like that good players can do things efficiently (fast, minimum use of resources) and bad players are the ones who waste things due to not being able to do it as well or not valuing the more efficient approach.
People would be annoyed to see someone start smithing and making low quality items (essentially wasting iron) when there is already some older smith doing the thing better. People would be stuck in the roles to ensure the town stays at maximum efficiency. It's a game after all, limiting a player "because it'd be realistic to not be good at everything" feels bad for the player. It's a nerf to your products, enforced by the game, even if you know you did it right.

There are so many theories how trade could happen in the game, but I hope we don't end up with a solution of "nerf until you have to do it". I'd rather approach it with the idea of excess. You want to trade away things you don't need or value, but right now everything is valuable. All towns are the same (or else they die), and any rope or pie is needed. Populations boom, bakers die, items are lost, ropes are low, populations shrink... What a town needs is everything, at every time. Every excess is beneficial and time goes by so quick that soon it's not excess anymore.
If we could communicate better, travel better, have actual excess in resources and clearly different towns with different strenghts, I think we'd get our first natural trades. But with war swords and language barriers, and same needs per town, we rather make momentary excess and keep it to ourselves, and get our own iron and soil. It's just easier to get your stuff by yourself, as no one is ever bringing it to you on their own anyways.

If I had excess items to get rid of, I'd love to switch them with someone who has something I'd rather have. But we never meet, and they're never there when I need them. Too much moving required, with language (communication) issues, griefing, killing, and towns always needing everything anyways. Same things as the next town, all the time.
So. My conclusion is... More ways of making things, more helpful resources, more useful things to make, more ways to move around excess items, more ways to communicate and excecute a fair trade (ensure the trader will most likely get what they want if they go to make a trade, so it's almost guaranteed and worth the try), more ways of specializing towns regarding its resource/s, and making it so that it's something it doesn't actually need to live, and can forward it to other places to get something they'd rather have.

I'd love it if some traveler came over with super cool and special character customization stuff, like hair gel or makeup or jewellery, and people would offer them things they can take to their town to help it live. I could finally look like a character of my own and do a trade that they benefit from. To me it could be fun vanity, to them it could be a lifeline for their town. Or maybe they just have a truckload of rope to throw away and we have a diesel engine for it, as we have extra. Although; who wants to be doing labor for a milkweed farm or an engine if it's sold by some random behind your back, with you not getting stuff for yourself? This is the issue of property we still face, and fences have done little to it. If machines did the engine for us, or farmed the milkweed... Hmmm...

Last edited by MultiLife (2019-07-04 18:50:43)

Dodge · 2019-07-04 19:08:24

You can add any ammount of content you want if everybody can make it then trade wont happen or will be very limited.

Also you would inherit a part of the skills from your parents (mom + maybe close uncle?) so you could be born already pretty experienced depending on who you're born too.

Later generations would be more experienced overall since they would have the knowledge from their ancestors previous generations.

But this would be balanced with late game having less ressources, so you would need to play smart, organize trading, systems, individual houses and shops, maybe a government etc.

Much more interesting than the current system that has no depth and makes late game very boring and unchallenging.

Potjeh · 2019-07-04 19:13:45

Pls no professions, it sounds awful.

JonySky · 2019-07-04 19:46:53

Dodge wrote:

@JonySky
You can imagine a griefer in any situation and it will be bad.
But with about 80 players in the game on a regular basis, there wouldn't be only one blacksmith in the whole world.
I forgot to mention something the way i see it the world should be much smaller and not almost infinite like currently.
So suppose there is only one blacksmith in the village and for some reason he is a griefer and decides to lock his workshop, you could travel to the closest village and try to communicate with the neighbor village blacksmith to trade tools.
You could learn any profession you want but at the beginning you start as a rookie who makes mistakes, is inneficcient and waste ressources and also doesn't know the more advanced recipes.

Where are we going? :
Currently we are going in circle, start civilisation, it ends up dying, it gets erased, start over.
How i see it: Limited map, limited ressources, no map culling, in the beginning plenty of ressources but low skill and eventually high skill but low ressources. So in end game you have to organise a society, with trade and efficient work to not waste the limited ressources.
If you play smart civilisations survive and thrive
If you dont, you waste ressources and eventually everything dies and apocalypse is the only solution.

What kind of game are we playing? :
Simulation of human civilisations
But right now lacks depth or any need for more advanced system or goverment
This could be partly solved with limited world and ressources and also professions.
Since they would require to play smart instead of being a robot player that farms or bake pies.
What is the future of OHOL?:
Good, hopefully.

dodge

I have set the example of the griefer because honestly it is the first one that has occurred to me

But in his answer about traveling to another city, learning the language and then learning the trade ... I have seen that there is no solution

Why do I say this?
very simple ... have you tried to do this right now in the current game?
I explain the inconveniences and believe me when I tell you that what you have described is one of my usual tasks in OHOL lately

You must wait until you are 13 years old to be able to get on a horse and go to a city (remember that you do not know where this other city is, with another blacksmith willing to teach you)
when you find that city you must begin to learn the language that will surely take you to learn ... and that even if you learn it, you will have words that are badly generated by the learning system
all this must be accompanied by extreme care so that no one stabs or key a war sword
When you have learned the language you must learn the profession and then return home ... but it will only be a return trip because there are no maps ... you will never see your master blacksmith again
and if someone has cut their marker ... forget to go home ...
in the case that you get back home possibly your city has died because the tools you needed have taken too long and have run out of food
or possibly you are so old that you will not have time to teach anyone your profession

curiously I have mentioned this example to him as if he were a man, but if he is a woman, he should add the "annoyance" of doing all this and raising his children along the way

all this is just an example of problems in a single profession and in a possible case of griefers ... but there are many more problems

for example: what do we do with the EVES ... do they know everything? Do you know all the professions?
and with girls who want to travel far from their hometown and create a new city?
and what will happen to Donkey Town ?, when a griefer ends in Donkey Town ... can also do everything?

He also tells me that we go in circles, a civilization begins and he ends up dying ...
I believe that currently OHOL arrives very quickly to the "complete city" in 10 generations as much we have it all
but the professions do not think they change this dynamic ...
currently in OHOL we do not do more than 2 or 3 primary tasks (for example, we weave and make compost) this means that the learning system will only stress us a little more, but in 10 generations we will be like now, with completed cities

This raises a question ... what happens with the secondary tasks (french fries, burritos, snowmen, tree planting, etc ...) must also learn these jobs?
Do you seriously believe that someone would teach or learn to make chips or burritos?
these tasks will die in oblivion, currently it is rare to see burritos in the cities and that anyone can do them ... imagine if you need to first learn it

I do not want you to misinterpret my words but I still think that basic problems must first be solved and the future of OHOL must be known ...

Last edited by JonySky (2019-07-04 19:51:41)

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#42 2019-07-04 17:27:17

Re: Will we get content soon?

#43 2019-07-04 17:43:48

Re: Will we get content soon?

#44 2019-07-04 18:11:09

Re: Will we get content soon?

#45 2019-07-04 18:15:28

Re: Will we get content soon?

#46 2019-07-04 18:20:22

Re: Will we get content soon?

#47 2019-07-04 18:35:32

Re: Will we get content soon?

#48 2019-07-04 19:08:24

Re: Will we get content soon?

#49 2019-07-04 19:13:45

Re: Will we get content soon?

#50 2019-07-04 19:46:53

Re: Will we get content soon?

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