Update: In Perpetuity

miskas · 2020-05-09 19:40:24

even after seeing Bobo's video.

I like the leadership update, If we elect shity leaders shit will happen. Bad choices must not go unpunished.

The nice about the election is that if you play it right you will be safe no matter your skill, none system could guaranty you that before, not even the solo kill that required skill and good ping.

The leader of the village is an important position and people should be careful about it.

All that we need to stop "a bobo" is a good or an old random leader.
We have the tools now, it's on us how we use them.

Last edited by miskas (2020-05-09 19:57:17)

Jojigirl · 2020-05-09 19:52:40

Bobo becoming leader is completely the fault of the players, not the update.. They just elected a leader all willy nilly.. lmao

People have to earn their follows.. Not have them just handed to them.

Last edited by Jojigirl (2020-05-09 19:54:12)

fug · 2020-05-09 21:37:10

Arcurus wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
Well, here's Bobo's response to the update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2GiSFcduRQ
could not wait for it ... he always shows the flaws, good way to debugg...

You can just ask any of the veteran players what the flaws would have been but it's not worth us voicing opinions or issues if they aren't listened to lol.

Spoonwood · 2020-05-09 22:16:57

fug wrote:

Arcurus wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:
Well, here's Bobo's response to the update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2GiSFcduRQ
could not wait for it ... he always shows the flaws, good way to debugg...
You can just ask any of the veteran players what the flaws would have been but it's not worth us voicing opinions or issues if they aren't listened to lol.

The flaw is in the expectation that such a system wouldn't get abused by people. Also, that players not reading the forums, which probably is most of them, would know how such works and be able to handle it.

Also, it wouldn't matter in the end even had the system worked, since it isn't like Bobo would be likely to get detected using boars or bears.

The game designer massively overestimates what can get done by such systems, and it's been about a year of failures since swords got introduced to fix such issues. What a waste of time. Permanent bans is the way to handle such for this game, and it's basically crackpottery to think otherwise.

I personally wouldn't be surprised if Bobo has many if not all of his accounts used in his videos, so it's even possible that all of his current accounts could get banned on the basis of information from his YouTube channel.

Cantface · 2020-05-09 22:19:19

You have an hour to seek and elect a good leader and have to repeat the process once one dies. This is tedium.

miskas · 2020-05-09 22:48:26

Cantface wrote:

You have an hour to seek and elect a good leader and have to repeat the process once one dies. This is tedium.

You don't need to elect a good leader to avoid being killed by a griefer, your best approach is to leave it random so Old fags get the leadership
None griefer will wait 50 minutes to get a chance! to be able to kill someone and if they do they will kill one or two at most.

If you wanna elect a leader that's fine also you will do it Once or twice per life. Just pick someone over 30 that is doing something good and leave it at that.

Last edited by miskas (2020-05-09 22:54:01)

Glassius · 2020-05-09 23:56:03

I summon you Bobo! What is your reasoning? What can stop your killing spree? Not Jason, obviously

Bobo Bill · 2020-05-10 00:38:40

Glassius wrote:

I summon you Bobo! What is your reasoning? What can stop your killing spree? Not Jason, obviously

My reasoning is that its the only way Jason listens and the only thing that can stop my killing spree is me.

Alterior · 2020-05-10 00:41:36

The community is likely to figure it out eventually. The update is new, people are still learning how it works.

Dantox · 2020-05-10 03:21:04

miskas wrote:

We have the tools now, it's on us how we use them.

What are exactly our tools? Leadership is pretty much just random, just act all good and if you ask nicely you can control the entire village with just a little help (The more help, the greater will be the probabilities to one of them becoming the leader) And that is the best case scenarios. Some players just dont know, and it only takes one player that didnt know or it didnt took to much thought about it when choosing a leader, hell, some just give it up without knowing.

Arcurus · 2020-05-10 07:34:34

one question, do we need still the posse system if we have now the exile system?

1. just imagine you can only attack one if you have equal or more allies, but never your own allies.

2. once you attack one which is not protected through the allies system, this person can attack you back

3. instead of needing a posse, the combat is done in single combat with the restrictions of 1+2

the main thing which would not be there anymore is the speed bonus of the posse, but i think so or this can be too much misused to make mass slaughtering. Adding some non lethal weapons like stones and long sticks could also help the majority to defend.

Jojigirl · 2020-05-10 07:40:51

Bobo Bill wrote:

Glassius wrote:
I summon you Bobo! What is your reasoning? What can stop your killing spree? Not Jason, obviously
My reasoning is that its the only way Jason listens and the only thing that can stop my killing spree is me.

I see you are very proud in what you do.. This must be your biggest accomplishment in life, huh?

miskas · 2020-05-10 09:02:18

Dantox wrote:

.

I will give you the situations to choose for yourself.

you are in a village of 10 and you know that in 30 minutes 4 griefers will come to kill your village. (1 from your own family and 3 strangers.)
You are there to defend your village from the raid. With what tools would you be most likely to have the smallest casualties?

Early game mechanics knife kills at will

later game mechanics cooldown and swords

Pose system

Leadership

Remember You are there to protect the village and you have the time to do anything. you can make knives for everyone, you can make swords for everyone you can teach them how to pose or straight up Become the Leader. Which mechanic will make sure you will have the least casualties?

Being a leader makes the whole Village! immune to the 4 griefers while you can kill immediately the 3 of them. It is so simple If you want to protect the village you know can, just become the leader.
It is a matter of player's organization skills now. Whatever you did in the previous mechanics a village that would be hit by 4 organized griefers would be all Dead or inflicted heavy damage

PS: griefers will also use all the tools available you can't outcompete in an arms race, they will all have pads swords and bows. The only thing that they won't have is a kingdom of 10 people.

Last edited by miskas (2020-05-10 09:16:13)

Cantface · 2020-05-10 14:58:40

Bobo Bill wrote:

My reasoning is that its the only way Jason listens and the only thing that can stop my killing spree is me.

Nah he won't listen, we know this already. Kudos to you for being persistent though. I think Dev is enjoying himself trying to stop you and he likes griefers anyways.

Stormytehcat · 2020-05-11 01:18:05

This is unrelated, but whatever happened to the gifs each update? I just thought they were kinda nice...

fug · 2020-05-11 02:21:28

Stormytehcat wrote:

This is unrelated, but whatever happened to the gifs each update? I just thought they were kinda nice...

Became too much work each week to do so he stopped.

Crumpaloo · 2020-05-11 02:54:05

miskas wrote:

Dantox wrote:
.
I will give you the situations to choose for yourself.
you are in a village of 10 and you know that in 30 minutes 4 griefers will come to kill your village. (1 from your own family and 3 strangers.)
You are there to defend your village from the raid. With what tools would you be most likely to have the smallest casualties?
Early game mechanics knife kills at will
later game mechanics cooldown and swords
Pose system
Leadership

Remember You are there to protect the village and you have the time to do anything. you can make knives for everyone, you can make swords for everyone you can teach them how to pose or straight up Become the Leader. Which mechanic will make sure you will have the least casualties?
Being a leader makes the whole Village! immune to the 4 griefers while you can kill immediately the 3 of them. It is so simple If you want to protect the village you know can, just become the leader.
It is a matter of player's organization skills now. Whatever you did in the previous mechanics a village that would be hit by 4 organized griefers would be all Dead or inflicted heavy damage

PS: griefers will also use all the tools available you can't outcompete in an arms race, they will all have pads swords and bows. The only thing that they won't have is a kingdom of 10 people.

Its rarely ever that cut and dry, anything you do a griefer can do, so trying to become a leader will just associate giving people leader roles with a positive effect, then when Bobo comes along people just assume a positive outcome.

Even just letting the leadership role fall randomly wont work cause at that rate it will just fall to some easily convinced noob who will die in 10 minutes giving the convincing person all the power to do as he pleases.

Unless you got experienced players doing 24/7 leadership passes this line of thinking doesnt work.

miskas · 2020-05-11 07:46:21

Yes leadership system is not impenetrable but it can not be penetrated without the consent of the people in the village.
With all the other systems it doesn't matter if you consent or not you just get killed.

Arcurus · 2020-05-11 08:37:57

Crumpaloo wrote:

...
Unless you got experienced players doing 24/7 leadership passes this line of thinking doesnt work.

Here a suggestion how the genetic fitness system could be used to have more experiences players as leaders:
"Effect: passing leadership to the highest genetic fitness player would lead to more experiences players being leaders. through punishing murderers of close relatives its unlikely that a griefer who kills his family has high fitness. Optionally to increase the effect the genetic fitness for leadership passing could be calculated per family."
https://www.reddit.com/r/OneLifeSuggest … ng_system/

what a griefer normally does is killing his own family, so he should have a more poor genetic fitness in average then his other family members, especially if killing them is extra punished. so in most cases this should work well to limit leadership griefing.

miskas wrote:

Yes leadership system is not impenetrable but it can not be penetrated without the consent of the people in the village.
With all the other systems it doesn't matter if you consent or not you just get killed.

I think even with single combat the murder rate would be quite low if the attacker is slowed down a little bit and the attacked one gets a clear warning. Additionally if also new players should be more save who dont see all this warnings, then by instinct the player could be made to run away from the attacker if he has no weapon unless he cancels it manually. But in the current posse system it works exactly the other way round, organized attackers can always catch the victim since they are faster.

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-05-11 08:45:14)

miskas · 2020-05-11 09:37:01

Arcurus wrote:

I think even with single combat the murder rate would be quite low if the attacker is slowed down a little bit and the attacked one gets a clear warning. Additionally if also new players should be more save who dont see all this warnings, then by instinct the player could be made to run away from the attacker if he has no weapon unless he cancels it manually. But in the current posse system it works exactly the other way round, organized attackers can always catch the victim since they are faster.

we have tried warning and slow in the past , didn't worked , bows have a lot range and people were still standing without running someone could killed them even with the knife. In fact the number that Jason showed last week are with this system.

orginased pose people should be able to kill cause then the griefer will be able to roam free damaging the cities infrastructure or be annoying in general.

the autorun you propose has not been tried. but Jason doesn't want a single person to be able to hunt the others without society's consent.
Effectively Jason wants safety in numbers and no killing without society consent.

I like the Gene score idea on leadership it will result in a better leadership. It removes players from the burden to chose a good leader though.

Last edited by miskas (2020-05-11 09:47:15)

Arcurus · 2020-05-11 10:58:42

miskas wrote:

(1) we have tried warning and slow in the past , didn't worked , bows have a lot range and people were still standing without running someone could killed them even with the knife. In fact the number that Jason showed last week are with this system.
(2)orginased pose people should be able to kill cause then the griefer will be able to roam free damaging the cities infrastructure or be annoying in general.
the autorun you propose has not been tried. but Jason don't want a single person to be able to hunt the others without society's consent.
(3) Effectively Jason wants safety in numbers and no killing without society consent.

To 1: As far as i remember the numbers, it was mainly noobs who got killed, which did not run away in first place.

There are some solutions for this, either let time solve it, since hopefully the next time they will not ignore the warning or let them run away by default and or make healing easier / killing harder to require more hits / wounds. This would give the majority more time to heal the victim while stopping the attacker.

I outlined here a system more in detail how this could work.

Punishing killing close relatives with genetic fitness lose would also further dis-encourage to kill close relatives for sake of fun.

To 2: i understand what we need griefer protection, but the current posse system can be misused massively by organized people to hunt down innocents without giving them much chance to escape as Bobo demonstrated. its also quite complex to organize so gives advantage to the attackers. Before if there was a raid you have a good chance to run away or try to fight them off in person to person combat. First is difficult with the posse system, since the attackers are faster, second is difficult since you need to organize first.

Another problem which comes along with the posse system is, that you cannot engage a group fight anymore. It comes always down to who organizes more allies. A better skill based way would be to let people help in other ways. If there would be more "hitpoints" and or access to more weapons even if not deadly naturally the bigger group would have a better chance to fight off attackers / has more strength in numbers.

To 3): With the the fear based system as outlined in the linked suggestion, a griefer could not take away or pick up thinks if a enemy is close with a weapon.
Second, by exiling a griefer a griefer could be further limited to pick up stuff / use gates if an enemy of him (ally of the one who exiled him) is close.

Third: Dogs, which currently have no function i know of could be used as they are used in our world to hunt down griefers.
Additionally the ability to follow tracks could be added to see where the griefer is hiding / hiding the tools.

In short strength in numbers as Jason wants would be naturally through the ability to have more people to heal / feed / defend / attack. For stopping griefers an exile and therefore limiting gate access and what he can pickup if a enemy is close can be enough to stop most of the griefing through simply exiling him.

If still the effort is worth to hunt him down the ability to follow tracks and use dogs could be easier then the effort to form a posse.

An option would be to use the exile system to protect and then use the "one and one combat system" to fight it out against exiled ones. But even this would have one problem. It would not allow group fights between groups like raids or rebellions. The biggest group would always be immune to attack no matter their skill.

In the system outlined above the groups could still engage in fights, but naturally the bigger group would be harder to fight of without the need of any further system. Most of the Griefers could be simply stopped by limiting their access to thinks if they are exiled or threatened with a weapon. The group system could still be used to inform about attacks and organize a defense and for exiling people which would be quite powerful still since it would limit massively access to items.

UPDATE:
Posses could still be allowed to form with the following changes:

- the ally / exile system is used to calculate if you can attack somebody. The posse size is simply counted to the allies you have.
- an attacker can be attacked by anybody, even if in the posse. This allows some chance to fight back and allow group fights
- the target of the posse gets slowed down if close to it, the more people in the posse the less speed.
still would be nice to have tracks and hunting dogs...

To bows, they can be either made less effective like more aiming time and or 50% chance to miss or simply through giving more hit points since arrows are limited.

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-05-11 12:35:00)

miskas · 2020-05-11 13:31:16

the Proposition misses the point, Jason doesn't want fighting in-game,

He only wants people to be able to Vote others to die. No skill, No luck, No fighting back.
If the majority wants someone dead, dead he shall be without anything stopping them.
If a solo player without any given power wants a member of the majority dead, it must not only be difficult for him to do it but the mechanics should prevent him from even trying.

Last edited by miskas (2020-05-11 13:39:54)

Arcurus · 2020-05-11 14:16:44

miskas wrote:

the Proposition misses the point, Jason doesn't want fighting in-game,
He only wants people to be able to Vote others to die. No skill, No luck, No fighting back.
If the majority wants someone dead, dead he shall be without anything stopping them.
If a solo player without any given power wants a member of the majority dead, it must not only be difficult for him to do it but the mechanics should prevent him from even trying.

maybe it came all out of the experience with the rift. Since there was mass murder the community got a fear about killing and then Jason tried to solve it with posses, which ended up in a spiral of other problems, that the posse itself can be misused by griefers....

he also seems to want to rework warswords and implement some kind of war. I think generally he want to simulate humanity...

but i guess he will try to implement war in a kind of artificial magic way like with the posse system.

i think with proper warning / instincts to protect against attacks / proper fences / doors and exile to protect against griefers and raids it would function without any special posse or war system. there would not be a 100% protection by default, but it could be balanced to still allow some attacks but not making it easy.

Also the current curse system looks broken to me. If you want to do something good for your town and want to get some iron from another they curse you. But for your own people you did something good. Especially with the current family limit of iron. Curses should protect you against inside traitors but not outside attacks. For that you should need to prepare by settling more far away, fencing / doors, training to fight. It could be balanced to have a fair chance to protect oneself without the need of curses.

Curses could be made to work as sign for internal traitors. Like you can only curse family members, but if a newborn comes and it has x curses (maybe even better to give a higher chance to be marked as cursed the more curses you got), its marked as cursed for the village to see (at least for the leader). Same way blessings could function. To make curses not too easy, since who wants a cursed baby, it could be required to curse or bless the grave. To not allow blessings to overrul curses easily courses could count twice then blessings.

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-05-11 14:21:43)

Caiaphus Tarwater · 2020-05-12 01:11:12

Bobo Bill wrote:

My reasoning is that its the only way Jason listens....

Listens to hear what message? What is the point, please?

Last edited by Caiaphus Tarwater (2020-05-12 01:12:55)

fug · 2020-05-12 02:47:58

Caiaphus Tarwater wrote:

Bobo Bill wrote:
My reasoning is that its the only way Jason listens....
Listens to hear what message? What is the point, please?

Bobo is like toxic and every other troll previously. He needs attention because his mother doesn't love him and his stepdad beats him. As a thirteen year old his only means of having power is shift clicking people in a parenting simulator.

He has no message, he has no point, just wants to "justify" his terrible behavior.

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