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#1 Main Forum » OneTech is not the answer » 2019-11-11 02:12:24
- juliakanakis
- Replies: 20
OneTech.info is great- but it's not part of the game, and if it was I think it would be out of place.
The blue arrows are an interesting attempt to solve the problem, and the crafting hint system in general is a step in the right direction, but in general the game is still unplayable without "looking things up" outside the game.
- the tutorial doesn't cover everything
- even the tutorial is not completable without looking things up outside the game
- parents only have enough time to teach composting/farming, not smithing/engineering
- new players learn what they can by seeing things *get done*, and crucially, seeing things *that are done*
- - in other words, if you play long enough you know what a sheep pen or berry farm should look like, and it's moderately intuitive what you have to learn to do to make one
- many things in a village are taken care of unseen. clay nozzles for example, are not something a new player will even notice being made, cooked, and crafted into a bellows. new players stumble on bowls of palm oil with no idea what it's for. engine parts are far too complex for a new player to learn by watching, especially if it takes multiple generations to build the engine.
- the hint system doesnt help you if you dont know the exact item name, and some items can't be clicked to find out what they are named
- the tool system limits players ability to learn the game during a normal in-game life
I'm sure you all have other examples of what makes learning recipes difficult, and how creative you have to be to figure out what to do without resorting to onetech.info
But there are several things that *nobody* has to look up- these are the recipes where something is working right.
1. branch + wheat sheaf # watchable, common, clicking wheat sheaf yields the right recipe hint
2. compost + shovel with dung # watchable, common, clicking wet pile yields the right recipe hint AND "shovel with dung" is well named
3. anything + oven # watchable, common, tryable and intuitive, picking up the item usually hints the right recipe
4. most farming # watchable
...
This game often creates the very strange situation where your mother knows nothing and you have to use baby-speak to teach her what the town needs. This is artistically incongruous with the game premise.
I'd love to hear what you all think about long term vision for the game's learning curve.
In the meantime I have a few suggestions:
- make newcomen piston seals (and pulley drive mechanisms' belts) decay, so that tire production is a critical component of every mid-sized town. Then new players will have a higher chance to see that job in action, and learn newcomen construction through the disassembly and reassembly of existing newcomen structures in need of maintenance.
- make tanks, boilers, etc recyclable to reduce the penalty of experimentation with iron resources
- make distillers and engines and pulley drives disassemblable, so players can teach others through reassembly
- add a charcoal storage unit that subtly suggests the amount of charcoal you ought to have on hand (like a cistern suggests how much water to keep around)
#2 Re: Main Forum » Nothing lasts forever ... let it all decay. » 2019-11-05 15:04:49
My decay opinions:
TL;DR I think bones, seeds, beans, wheat and flour should not decay, and everything else edible should decay.
New objects will be required to make sure you get your arrows, skewers, plates and bowls back.
Personally I think baskets are annoying when they decay because they are containers. If they survived as a "basket grave" like a corpse does then it would be less annoying. However, the mechanisms for replenishing the town's basket supply aren't a super fun minigame 
That could be tweaked.
Before you ask: I think the best way to deal with the flood of animal bones this would cause would be a new object "bones-only pile" with infinite, or near infinite, capacity. Trash pits are currently underpowered.
395 Carrot Seed Head decays: yes should decay: no
858 Broken Steel Tool decays: yes should decay: no
862 Broken Steel Tool# no wood decays: yes should decay: no
1186 Squash Seeds decays: yes should decay: no
189 Rabbit Bone decays: yes should decay: no
190 Rabbit Bones decays: yes should decay: no
522 Goose Bones decays: yes should decay: no
227 Straw decays: yes should decay: no
566 Mouflon Bones decays: yes should decay: no
572 Mouflon Bones#dumped decays: yes should decay: no
589 Sheep Bones#dumped decays: yes should decay: no
1345 Pig Bones#dumped decays: yes should decay: no
1343 Pig Bones decays: yes should decay: no
2107 Fish Bones decays: yes should decay: no
588 Sheep Bones decays: yes should decay: no
1290 Cooked Wheat Tortilla decays: no should decay: yes
1293 Stack of Bean Burritos decays: no should decay: yes
1304 Cooked Corn Tortilla decays: no should decay: yes
1307 Stack of Bean Tacos decays: no should decay: yes
39 Wild Carrot decays: no should decay: yes
40 Carrot decays: no should decay: yes
180 Dead Rabbit decays: no should decay: yes
181 Skinned Rabbit decays: no should decay: yes
182 Skinned Rabbit decays: no should decay: yes
185 Skewered Rabbit decays: no should decay: yes
186 Cooked Rabbit decays: no should decay: yes
197 Cooked Rabbit decays: no should decay: yes
242 Ripe Wheat decays: no should decay: yes
253 Bowl of Gooseberries decays: no should decay: yes
254 Bowl of Rabbit decays: no should decay: yes
255 Bowl of Minced Rabbit decays: no should decay: yes
256 Bowl of Gooseberries And Rabbit decays: no should decay: yes
257 Bowl of Gooseberries, Rabbit, and Carrot decays: no should decay: yes
258 Bowl of Gooseberries and Carrot decays: no should decay: yes
259 Bowl of Mashed Berries, Rabbit, and Carrot decays: no should decay: yes
260 Bowl of Mashed Berries and Carrot decays: no should decay: yes
261 Bowl of Mashed Berries and Rabbit decays: no should decay: yes
262 Bowl of Rabbit and Carrot decays: no should decay: yes
263 Bowl of Mashed Rabbit and Carrot decays: no should decay: yes
264 Raw Pie Crust decays: no should decay: yes
265 Raw Berry Pie decays: no should decay: yes
266 Raw Berry Carrot Pie decays: no should decay: yes
267 Raw Berry Carrot Rabbit Pie decays: no should decay: yes
268 Raw Carrot Pie decays: no should decay: yes
269 Raw Carrot Rabbit Pie decays: no should decay: yes
270 Raw Rabbit Pie decays: no should decay: yes
271 Raw Berry Rabbit Pie decays: no should decay: yes
272 Cooked Berry Pie decays: no should decay: yes
273 Cooked Carrot Pie decays: no should decay: yes
274 Cooked Rabbit Pie decays: no should decay: yes
275 Cooked Berry Carrot Pie decays: no should decay: yes
276 Cooked Berry Rabbit Pie decays: no should decay: yes
277 Cooked Rabbit Carrot Pie decays: no should decay: yes
278 Cooked Berry Carrot Rabbit Pie decays: no should decay: yes
402 Carrot decays: no should decay: yes
404 Wild Carrot decays: no should decay: yes
421 Dead Wolf with Arrow decays: no should decay: yes
422 Dead Wolf decays: no should decay: yes
509 Pond with Dead Goose decays: no should decay: yes
510 Pond with Dead Goose#arrow decays: no should decay: yes
514 Dead Canada Goose decays: no should decay: yes
515 Plucked Goose decays: no should decay: yes
516 Skewered Goose decays: no should decay: yes
517 Cooked Goose decays: no should decay: yes
518 Cooked Goose decays: no should decay: yes
547 Bowl of Carrot decays: no should decay: yes
548 Bowl of Mashed Carrot decays: no should decay: yes
562 Skinned Mouflon decays: no should decay: yes
563 Skinned Mouflon#with hide decays: no should decay: yes
564 Mouflon Hide decays: no should decay: yes
565 Butchered Mouflon decays: no should decay: yes
569 Raw Mutton decays: no should decay: yes
570 Cooked Mutton decays: no should decay: yes
587 Butchered Sheep decays: no should decay: yes
595 Dead Sheep decays: no should decay: yes
596 Skinned Sheep decays: no should decay: yes
597 Dead Sheep#shorn decays: no should decay: yes
598 Dead Sheep#shorn fleece decays: no should decay: yes
599 Dead Domestic Mouflon decays: no should decay: yes
625 Wet Compost Pile decays: no should decay: yes
768 Cactus Fruit decays: no should decay: yes
802 Raw Mutton Pie decays: no should decay: yes
803 Cooked Mutton Pie decays: no should decay: yes
806 Dug Burdock decays: no should decay: yes
807 Burdock Root decays: no should decay: yes
808 Wild Onion decays: no should decay: yes
1141 Wild Potato Tubers decays: no should decay: yes
1147 Raw Potato decays: no should decay: yes
1148 Baked Potato decays: no should decay: yes
1149 Half Baked Potato decays: no should decay: yes
1150 Dug Potato decays: no should decay: yes
1152 Potato in Water decays: no should decay: yes
1155 Split Potato Sprouts decays: no should decay: yes
1175 Bowl of Green Beans decays: no should decay: yes
1180 Bowl of Soaking Beans decays: no should decay: yes
1181 Bowl of Soaked Beans decays: no should decay: yes
1198 Cut Hubbard Squash decays: no should decay: yes
1199 Hubbard Squash decays: no should decay: yes
1200 Hubbard Squash On Plate decays: no should decay: yes
1201 Plate of Squash Chunks with Seeds decays: no should decay: yes
1202 Plate of Squash Chunks decays: no should decay: yes
1204 Dug Wild Cabbage decays: no should decay: yes
1210 Ripe Cabbage Plant decays: no should decay: yes
1211 Cut Red Cabbage decays: no should decay: yes
1212 Red Cabbage decays: no should decay: yes
1222 Shredded Cabbage decays: no should decay: yes
1225 Shredded Cabbage with Board decays: no should decay: yes
1243 Crock with Squash decays: no should decay: yes
1244 Crock with Squash and Beans decays: no should decay: yes
1245 Dry Stew Pot decays: no should decay: yes
1246 Raw Stew Pot decays: no should decay: yes
1249 Three Sisters Stew decays: no should decay: yes
1251 Bowl of Stew decays: no should decay: yes
1260 Goose Beheaded decays: no should decay: yes
1273 Dead Goose decays: no should decay: yes
1285 Omelette decays: no should decay: yes
1286 Flat Rock with Wheat Dough decays: no should decay: yes
1287 Flat Rock with Masa Dough decays: no should decay: yes
1288 Flat Rock with Wheat Tortilla decays: no should decay: yes
1289 Raw Wheat Tortilla decays: no should decay: yes
1291 Stack of Wheat Tortillas decays: no should decay: yes
1292 Bowl of Cooked Beans decays: no should decay: yes
1294 Bean Burrito decays: no should decay: yes
1300 Bowl of Masa Dough decays: no should decay: yes
1301 Flat Rock with Corn Tortilla decays: no should decay: yes
1302 Raw Corn Tortilla decays: no should decay: yes
1305 Stack of Corn Tortillas decays: no should decay: yes
1329 Shot Wild Boar with Piglet# arrow decays: no should decay: yes
1330 Shot Boar# arrow decays: no should decay: yes
1331 Shot Boar with Piglet# no arrow decays: no should decay: yes
1332 Dead Boar# no arrow decays: no should decay: yes
1340 Butchered Pig decays: no should decay: yes
1342 Raw Pork decays: no should decay: yes
1352 Dead Domestic Pig decays: no should decay: yes
1354 Bowl of Raw Pork decays: no should decay: yes
1355 Bowl of Carnitas decays: no should decay: yes
1356 Stack of Pork Tacos decays: no should decay: yes
1358 Pork Taco decays: no should decay: yes
1441 Dead Bison with Calf#arrow 2 decays: no should decay: yes
1443 Dead Bison with Calf#arrow 1 decays: no should decay: yes
1445 Dead Bison with Calf decays: no should decay: yes
1463 Bowl of Whole Milk decays: no should decay: yes
1464 Bowl of Cream decays: no should decay: yes
1465 Bowl of Butter decays: no should decay: yes
1466 Bowl of Leavened Dough decays: no should decay: yes
1468 Leavened Dough on Clay Plate decays: no should decay: yes
1469 Raw Bread Loaf decays: no should decay: yes
1470 Baked Bread decays: no should decay: yes
1471 Sliced Bread decays: no should decay: yes
1473 Buttered Bread on Clay Plate decays: no should decay: yes
1474 Bread Slice on Clay Plate decays: no should decay: yes
1476 Slice of Bread decays: no should decay: yes
1478 Full Bucket of Milk decays: no should decay: yes
1479 Partial Bucket of Milk decays: no should decay: yes
1480 Bucket of Separated Milk decays: no should decay: yes
1481 Bowl of Skim Milk decays: no should decay: yes
1483 Partial Bucket of Skim Milk decays: no should decay: yes
2096 Arctic Char decays: no should decay: yes
2100 Fishing Pole with Char decays: no should decay: yes
2103 Skewered Fish decays: no should decay: yes
2104 Cooked Fish decays: no should decay: yes
2106 Cooked Fish decays: no should decay: yes
2124 Full Bucket of Skim Milk decays: no should decay: yes
2143 Banana decays: no should decay: yes
2176 Shot Turkey# with Arrow decays: no should decay: yes
2177 Shot Turkey# no arrow decays: no should decay: yes
2182 Plucked Turkey decays: no should decay: yes
2183 Plucked Turkey on Plate decays: no should decay: yes
2185 Cooked Turkey decays: no should decay: yes
2186 Cooked Turkey on Plate decays: no should decay: yes
2187 Carved Turkey on Plate decays: no should decay: yes
2188 Drum Sticks on Plate decays: no should decay: yes
2189 Turkey Carcass on Plate decays: no should decay: yes
2190 Turkey Slice on Plate decays: no should decay: yes
2191 Turkey Drumstick decays: no should decay: yes
2192 Turkey Leg Bone decays: no should decay: yes
2193 Drum Stick on Plate decays: no should decay: yes
2489 Shot Domestic Boar with Piglet# arrow decays: no should decay: yes
2742 Carrot Pile decays: no should decay: yes
2771 Wet Planted Sugarcane decays: no should decay: yes
2772 Sprouting Sugarcane decays: no should decay: yes
2773 Bowl of Sugarcane Chunks decays: no should decay: yes
2774 Bowl of Sugarcane Pulp decays: no should decay: yes
2775 Bowl of Soaking Sugarcane Pulp decays: no should decay: yes
2776 Sugarcane Pulp in Simmering Water decays: no should decay: yes
2777 Bowl of Cooked Sugarcane Pulp decays: no should decay: yes
2778 Cooked Sugarcane Pulp on Hot Coals decays: no should decay: yes
2779 Ashes with Bowl of Cooked Sugarcane Pulp decays: no should decay: yes
2780 Bowl of Cane Juice decays: no should decay: yes
2781 Simmering Cane Juice decays: no should decay: yes
2782 Bowl of Bagasse decays: no should decay: yes
2783 Bowl of Raw Sugar decays: no should decay: yes
2784 Ashes with Bowl of Raw Sugar decays: no should decay: yes
2785 Dried Raw Sugar decays: no should decay: yes
2786 Bowl of Sugared Cream decays: no should decay: yes
2791 Crock of Chilling Cream decays: no should decay: yes
2792 Crock of Ice Cream decays: no should decay: yes
2793 Crock of Warm Sugared Cream decays: no should decay: yes
2794 Bowl of Ice Cream decays: no should decay: yes
2796 Spoon of Ice Cream decays: no should decay: yes
2807 Wild Pepper decays: no should decay: yes
2811 Perhaps some Shrimp decays: no should decay: yes
2812 Net of Shrimp#just caught decays: no should decay: yes
2815 Shrimp decays: no should decay: yes
2817 Net of Shrimp decays: no should decay: yes
2818 Plate of Whole Shrimp decays: no should decay: yes
2819 Plate of Cleaned Shrimp decays: no should decay: yes
2820 Skewered Shrimp decays: no should decay: yes
2823 Cooked Shrimp decays: no should decay: yes
2826 Bowl of Fermented Tomato Seed Pulp decays: no should decay: yes
2827 Bowl of Soaking Tomato Seed Pulp decays: no should decay: yes
2835 Fruiting Tomato Plant decays: no should decay: yes
2836 Tomato decays: no should decay: yes
2843 Fruiting Pepper Plant decays: no should decay: yes
2844 Hot Pepper decays: no should decay: yes
2853 Onion Sprouts decays: no should decay: yes
2854 Ripe Onions decays: no should decay: yes
2855 Onion decays: no should decay: yes
2857 Wet Planted Onion decays: no should decay: yes
2858 Onion on Plate decays: no should decay: yes
2859 Tomato on Plate decays: no should decay: yes
2860 Chopped Onion on Plate decays: no should decay: yes
2861 Chopped Tomato on Plate decays: no should decay: yes
2862 Bowl of Salsa decays: no should decay: yes
2863 Chopped Tomato and Onion on Plate decays: no should decay: yes
2864 Chopped Tomato and Onion with Hot Pepper decays: no should decay: yes
2865 Corn Tortilla in Bowl decays: no should decay: yes
2866 Raw Tortilla Chips decays: no should decay: yes
2867 Simmering Palm Oil decays: no should decay: yes
2868 Tortilla Chips decays: no should decay: yes
2869 Tortilla Chip decays: no should decay: yes
2870 Chip with Salsa decays: no should decay: yes
2871 Potato on Plate decays: no should decay: yes
2872 Raw French Fries on Plate decays: no should decay: yes
2873 French Fries on Plate decays: no should decay: yes
2874 French Fry decays: no should decay: yes
2875 French Fry with Ketchup decays: no should decay: yes#3 Re: Main Forum » If genetic fitness actually matters, is life limit still necessary? » 2019-10-31 19:57:57
But Jason, people aren't just animals. Selective pressure applies to the spread of ideas just as much as to the spread of physical traits. Do you want to reward teaching kids? Or just feeding them? You should be able to adopt children and "get points" (or whatever) for the success of whoever you choose to invest in.
Anyway-
This game doesn't have true genetic competition because it doesn't have any actual genetic traits. I don't think you'll find players are actually motivated to behave (and *feel*) like parents because a score goes up (perks or no perks).
Proxying one desire based on another works, of course. But a better base-desire would be the desire to not see your hard work wasted. That's what leads fresh players (speaking from my own experience) to spam refresh the lineage page inbetween games. I want to see if what I contributed to ultimately succeeded (and pre-rift there were rarely two families in a town). What motivated me was the success of the town, not the lineage.
So why not tie the two together: players clearly want to continue their projects across lives. That desire needs to be rerouted. I'm an advocate of separate existence planes- one life per universe. However, you should be able to check in on a town only if your offspring still live there. Spectator mode (or even just a timelapse or a still) would buff the *other* game you're making: the game of watching the lineage page to see what happened to your kids.
I'd much rather have a profile full of screenshots of happy grandkids in their old age than a floating point number.
The only reason rational humans actually care for their kids is by ignoring the fact that the sun will eventually boil the oceans.
There is no *real* happy ending. You have to make a happy ending part way through the story and call that "the end". That's what humans want -- to believe they made a happy ending happen.
#4 Main Forum » Aaaaand I'm out of lives. » 2019-10-28 23:55:03
- juliakanakis
- Replies: 3
Genetic fitness: 9.3 (484th place)
Guess I have to go play something else while you folks try to get a town started.
#5 Re: Main Forum » Infinite + Rift » 2019-10-17 15:55:18
How about this shape rift 
#6 Re: Main Forum » Infinite + Rift » 2019-10-16 13:05:57
Here's an image that highlights that it's not really a maze: it's a very regular fractal pattern.
It's still possible to get lost trying to find a specific place upstream, but it's impossible to get lost going downstream, if you pay attention.
#7 Main Forum » Infinite + Rift » 2019-10-16 02:51:05
- juliakanakis
- Replies: 19
What's great about the rift:
- you run into other families
- its easy to find abandoned camps
What's great about infinite map:
- its easy to find untouched milkweed and go "eve" if you want to
- a town that's fun to live in doesnt have to die just because the local oil is gone
I would really love to try a hybrid between an infinite map and the rift.
This mountain-range/river-basin inspired geometric pattern limits the map on the north and west edges, but continues the pattern infinitely in the east and south directions.
This would preserve the "running into other players" that happens in a limited rectangle, because of the intersection points of the enclaves in the pattern: From every cell there is a "down stream" direction where you are likely to find other folks who are looking to run into other families as well.
It would also allow players to extend their town's life after local resources become scarce: if your enclave runs out of oil, your family can move downstream and start a new town.
@Jason: I'd love to try this shape rift for a week or two on bigserver2. Please randomly rotate it a multiple of 90 degrees and don't tell us which way ends up being north.
The choice of scale for the pattern will certainly affect the gameplay but I'd be excited to try it regardless of what size you think would be best.
#8 Main Forum » Useful Villager Flow Chart » 2019-10-10 22:40:56
- juliakanakis
- Replies: 1
Here's what I tend to do in most villages ^
I assume someone else is handling newcomb pumps, buildings, pads, iron runs, carts and stew.
If there's a charcoal-powered well, I'll add "make charcoal" and "fill cisterns" as another task.
If there's too many geese in the sheep pen, I'll also behead and skin them.
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