a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Yeah I saw this coming too... Very sad. Came back after a long break from this game due to the community and griefing issues, to come back to... this.
This is what happens when you take an extremely toxic anthrophobe who spent all his free time griefing, breaking the game and cheating (not to mention making hateful posts about Jason on Discord) and make him a MODERATOR instead of banning him. Yes, I'm talking about Joriom. I have no idea what Jason saw in that guy, he is pure toxicity. People like him poison the entire well if given the opportunity, and it looks to me like him and his friends did just that. The steam reviews speak loudly enough, as do the forums. You messed up, Jason.
Unfortunate... hopefully Jason and fans fix up the community and fix the game, but I don't see that happening. I hope more so that a new game takes on this niche genre. Not the Rust-like genre that the game is now, it's been done and overdone. I'm talking about the long-term multiplayer civ building type of game that Jason originally created. Games like ECO come close but are still lacking IMO. As for this game, I'm done with it.
Best trait of at least useless, often a new player or just simply having fun from other's misery, is that they listen.
Quite often when I have had bad luck with eve camp myself and seen at least few sons among me with couple of omelettes in the last few plates remaining, I often end up asking them: "Do you wish to learn something?" which in often times leads him or her ask for basic things, which is often not taught in tutorial and they need brief guide as what to do, for example beginnings of farming, and clay pottery making (which is in tutorial but it seems yet so difficult to remain in head yet in few days.) it will take some time until people adapt to things and that, and if we end up being negative for whole point of new people in existing, it will make the world feel unwelcome to them. We also were newbies the time we began and we pissed lot of ppl with our incapability, so how I've made my useless children become useful to me.- simple job, fetch branches, if they listen to you, tell them to cut branches and put on basket, like short shafts or curved shafts, for more kindling per run.
- bring food, try to put sharp stone in basket for them in hopes for them to realize at least how to get burdock. You can't just fully expect them to bring everything possible when it comes for bad enviroment, so have some forgiveness.
- berry farming, even adults become useful at this when you need to fetch the berries and cut them and put on tilled soil and wait that 30 minutes for them to grow up. It's tedious, more tedious if food is already scarce, but if you have managed to get bowls and baskets early on, it shouldn't be much of a struggle.Edit: and if you explain to them, and at least help them realize how things are done, it will likely help them remember, and likely share it with others who are new. So give some power for that sweet, sweet knowledge.
This. Instead of just leaving them to do their thing, ask them to do a real basic task and make sure there is ALWAYS food at camp. If you find yourself with a baby asking "wat do?" just tell them to grab a basket and a sharp rock and gather food. Admittedly this is a better job for adults because babies are slow, but it's better than them wandering around looking for berry bushes getting constantly sidetracked by hunger and doing nothing productive.
I find a lot of my time spent in eve camps - either as Eve or as a child - is gathering. It's simple, easy and extremely helpful not just to you but to everyone else at camp. It relieves pressure from everyone else and gives them time to figure out what they should do. If you just run around with a basket and a sharp rock bringing back carrots, haddocks etc you feed not only yourself but at least 2 other people who are no longer stopping what they're doing every 30 seconds to find berries. If you have just one other person that knows what they're doing, they can easily get omelettes up and running with little distractions and you can transition to gathering eggs instead to feed even more people.
I like to clean up the giant mess that most towns end up being. Bits of flint, bowls and plates, random seeds, etc. clutter up the whole area and cuts into people's time by a lot as they try to find the axe among the colossal mess on the floor. Especially around the forge. Putting all the tools in one spot, putting excess food, seeds and bowls into baskets, finding and returning tools that people have dropped far outside the town, makes it so much easier to plan and do things. Even better if there is an abundance of rope and logs around to make chests.
Most of the time it's near impossible though. Either I spawn in an eve camp, or the town is lacking food or there aren't enough baskets / carts to properly organise things. Or the town has 10 kids running around and my efforts get undone immediately.
The current problem is that the bush holds more than the bowl, so I can't just transfer the remaining uses from the bowl to the bush. I.e., if you use the bowl on a half-full bush, you should get a half-full bowl, right?
I'll look into it, though.
I'm not even close to a professional coder, but what about this psuedocode:
if (bowl = EmptyBowl & bush.uses > 0) //if bowl is empty, turn it into a gooseberry bowl with 1 berry
bowl = BowlOfGooseberries
bowl.uses++
bush.uses--
while(bush.uses > 0 & bowl.uses < 6) //add berries until bowl is full or bush is empty
{
bowl.uses++
bush.uses--
}its 6 in bowl 7 on bush and made me want to kill the ones who ate a full bowl
i did kill some of them but they just didnt care
since berry was 1 hour reload people barely planted new but the 8 min reload made it much viable even with the slight nerf of wool clothesthe only hard thing about filling bowl that there is no empty space inside the bushes, so i gonna dig out space as plus signs for cistern bucket bowl soil
other than that anyone could make an apron under ten minutes
I didn't say it was hard to harvest berries, I said that it was slow and tedious. When you only have 1 hour and every minute counts in terms of keeping yourself and your family alive, picking a bunch of berries one by one to feed sheep no longer becomes worth it because you have to spend a large chunk of your life doing it. With the old system I could grab a cart with 4 bowls, go to the berry farm, fill up in a few seconds and be on my way to the carrot farm. Now it takes at least a minute to fill a bowl cart with berries and that's if you're being totally time efficient. This is even more apparent now that sheep have more uses than they used to (dung for compost, balls of thread for needles, more recently sterile rags for healing wounds)
I remember a while back you used to be able to use an empty bowl on a gooseberry bush and immediately harvest the whole thing in exchange for a bowl of gooseberries. This was great. It wasn't efficient to eat but it was simple and made it easy to raise sheep and make berry pies (although back then people just grew tons of carrots instead.)
At some point that got changed and now you have to manually pick the berries and place them in the bowl one at a time. This is incredibly tedious, especially considering the current metagame of planting mass berry bushes. It also makes sheep farming a colossal grind. You have to manually pick and place 36 berries just to feed enough sheep for a single wool sweater! No wonder everyone is running around naked even in highly populated towns. The old system was better IMO and I don't see why we can't just quickly harvest bushes with an empty bowl.
Looks like it was a combination of bad RNG, bad players and the snake. Barbie Angel had only 2 sons before dying to the snake and the other girl starved presumably doing what kids tend to do - run far away to collect things and forget about their rapidly draining hunger. No women = no lineage.
Edit: It's important to note that the Lineage viewer doesn't show people that are currently alive. The family might not be dead yet, there could be a girl walking around that village right now and she won't appear on the Lineage viewer until she dies.
As a side note to whoever was Clever Angel, drop that attitude it helps nobody.
I just recently ran into a character that wanted to be cursed. As a kid he kept asking to be cursed, until he found a knife at which point he started threatening people with it in order to be cursed. While I explained to him what would happen if he was cursed, he said he "wants the black text" and that "he just won't talk until he's four" at which point he'll be the "demon-child of the town".
There definitely needs to be a proper punishment for being cursed. Right now it just functions as a "griefer badge" and that is even giving some people an incentive to grief - they get to be the notorious bad guy or as this character said, "the demon-child". It's also somewhat punishing for new players as the inverted color text doesn't make it immediately apparent that they're a griefer and they'll be raised by new players anyway, only for them to get griefed. Not a good first time experience for sure.
There's a problem with this system - you cannot type "curse x" if you are too young and their name is too long. This is especially a problem with long names that end up with only people age 20 and above able to curse griefers. This has led to a "meta" where griefers find foraging kids and teenagers and kill them while they're far away from camp because they can't be cursed.
Simple fix - allow "curse x" to apply over multiple sentences. So if an 8 year old gets griefed by, say, Isabella Thompson they can type "curse" "isabella" "thompson". Alternatively, a player can just say "curse" and a UI pops up letting you type in the full name regardless of character limit.
I find it hilarious that you're so up in arms over your "time being wasted" over "petty semantics" when your entire case is that griefing is how you define it and not how everyone else in this thread (including OP) defines it along with multiple majority sources. If that isn't petty semantics I don't know what is. Am I really wasting your time, or are you sitting here wasting your own time getting frustrated and insulting others on your pseudo-intellectual high horse because you don't like the words people are using?
I'm not even going to try persuading you anymore, you're clearly delusional and it gave me a good chuckle reading that last post because there's absolutely no reason in it whatsoever. We've definitely hit a barrier of "this guy thinks he's the best so everyone here is wrong."
I also want to point out the irony in this:
And, again, it is, in fact, impossible to have a new player that is taught things, because that would be, by definition, an experienced player and not a new player anymore
I think you need to lookup the definition of slang, as you obviously have zero comprehension of the English language.
There's no such thing as official definition for slang words, it's informal language. Arguing otherwise is just stupid, like this whole thread.
If you can't understand what I've clarified in comprehensible words I'm not sure what more to say to you. Arguing minor semantics is pointless like this whole diatribe.
I've been accustomed to griefing since Ultima Online, don't tell me what griefing is and isn't.
Yes "grief" is a slang word but in the overwhelming majority of cases it's used to describe behaviour of malicious intent. One person deliberately causing grief to another. At that point it is pretty well defined. Disagreeing with the majority doesn't make your definition correct. Ad hominem doesn't help your case either, nor does "I played Ultima Online".
Most games don't allow the option of wasting people's time unless it's deliberate, this one does. That's the core difference. Not in the proposed "definition" of a slang gaming term.
There are plenty of games that allow you to "waste" other people's time (as if video games aren't already a waste of time). Ultima Online comes to mind, as does most MMOs.
Furthermore teaching new players is impossible. Once you teach new player, said player ceases to be a new player and becomes an experienced player. New players will always be unexperienced new players and will continue to arrive for as long as the game attracts new audience. It's a moot point, as it's an impossibly large undertaking for a single player to convert all current and future new players into experienced players overnight.
Impossible? All it takes is a bit of typing explaining whatever it is they want to know. Nobody's asking anyone to teach the entire new population overnight by themselves, that's absurd. Just do your part to correct people's mistakes and quit assuming the worst of people all the time.
Joriom wrote:Did your townguard stop people from replacing all carrots with wheat seeds [snip]
Would Jason be able to [snip]
This entire post nailed the issue on the head IMO. The problem isn't just that people can grief too easily, the problem is also that one or two deluded, mentally unstable people have taken the game way too far and decided to blow it wildly out of proportion and become the problem they claim to solve, all while trying to paint themselves as "martyrs" and prove their point on how terrible humanity is.
Political grief terrorism is a perfect way of putting it. And how do we deal with terrorists? That's right, we don't because they can't be reasoned with. We declare war on them instead. Ban Joriom and anyone else doing this shit with him IMO - permanently. People that do shit like this will not change because they don't see error in their ways and are worse than griefers, they're sociopaths. They're the sole reason ban features exist in most multiplayer video games - and in real life!
Just because you don't understand unintended griefing it doesn't mean it doesn't exist [snip]
This mindset also bothers me. Unintended griefing is not a thing. Griefing requires malicious intent - keyword in INTENT. Just because someone is accidentally or ignorantly emptying out ponds or planting the wrong seeds, that doesn't make them a griefer. It makes them uneducated or foolish. Stop punishing new players by lumping them in with assholes, teach them instead.
Yeah this is one of my least favourite parts of this game, the fact that when exploring at any point you can run into a rattlesnake hiding behind a tree or a wolf running in front of you and it's impossible to react to it in time because of the tiny viewing area and fast movement speed.
It feels much worse when you're hauling a cart to a far away location to gather berries, milkweed etc and a wolf slams into you from offscreen, not only are you suddenly dead but your village just lost a lot of expensive resources. It just feels like a cheap way to die because there's no way to avoid it aside from walking only east-west and walking unreasonably slow.
IMO these threats should either not instantly kill you (injured state requiring a splint or disinfectant or something) or the view distance should change which would also solve a lot of other problems.
Rather than doing pies, I wonder if we should not focus on cooked mutton. Cooked mutton is 16 food, each sheep gives 4, so 64 foods total, it is basically a carrot rabbit pie.
It takes a full berry bush, so 18 + one carrot (6) = 24. It uses no soil and no water. You'll get wool as a bonus, it uses no soil.
Sheeps are your food multiplier now.
Sounds good but the problem is sheep seem to be an opportunistic griefer's cue to go nuts. It's so easy to kill a sheep farm and it takes a while to get a sheep farm going. Every town I've been in so far that had sheep ended up with griefer problems. Just an anecdote though.
There's an error in your math too - domestic berry bushes need to be watered after harvesting and you'll probably have to plant domestic bushes too since people will inevitably eat / grief the wild berries. There is an initial soil cost and since berries take a while to regrow you'll need a farm rivalling the size of a carrot farm.
Also mutton is fairly bulky (though not as bulky as carrots, oddly). Pies are still much more space efficient.
I must admit I tried the griefing game a few weeks ago when things got stagnant. I agree, it was surprisingly easy to wipe out a village by picking them off one by one with a bow and then trashing the nearby resources, while hiding the other available weapons. Not doing it again, it felt dirty and nihilistic. Not that it mattered though because back then Eves could just stumble back into it and rebuild.
I am OK with this becoming a griefer confession thread. Come out, griefers! Confess and be cleansed of your wicked sins.
They're the only object that you can actually interact with as a baby. Chasing penguins around is fun while you're waiting to starve as your eve mother wandered off to find food.
I think the problem with the current "metagame" is that villages aren't willing to move because of how difficult it is to get a coordinated group going, let alone one that wants to travel one-way for a long distance, with no certain destination in sight. Many little issues compound this problem, such as: small field of view, sudden threats like snakes, lack of persistent / long-term communication, lack of long-range communication. This leads to villages inevitably dying out.
That said I'm not worried about this impacting the game much for the long-term. I imagine as new things get added and QoL changes get made this problem will eventually disappear. Plus the game gets stagnant pretty fast right now with the current amount of content - once a village is decked out with pies, carts and gold, what else is there to do but grief or roleplay? Having villages die out early and often is probably a good thing right now.
Oh man, I know the exact village that building in the screenshot was built in. The place got griefed hard by one guy who kept digging up all the berry bushes, killing the sheep and hiding the worms. That dude was dedicated to seeing the place die out.
Thats exactly why I believe over half of RL population should be shot at sight because of their stupidity.
Well aren't you just a wonderful shining example of humanity. That and your previous post...
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