a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Berries, carrots then sheep pen all in a row so feeding sheep is easy. Sheep pen and wheat right next to the bakery for mutton and dough. Other parts of the farm in the opposite direction, or north/south maybe. With a building full of stew, wine, custards etc. Nursery near the berries with lots of boxes for clothes. Maybe near sheep too for the same reason. Smithing on the opposite side so there's plenty of room and no kids or heavy traffic crowding it. Cisterns, floor tiles and roads where appropriate. I'll link a quick draft. In reality towns develop organically and are never planned this well, but it's a fun thought experiment. I'm sure someone could come up with a more optimized setup with a little planning.
Ideally the tech tree should allow progression into modern and futuristic technology so that "everything runs out" meets "people can find a way." A transition from oil to atomic power for example. That was the selling point of the game after all, content updates to stay ahead of the player every step of the way.
Here we are two years later still waiting on those atomic powered robots with laser guns.
This isn't a most necessary change. It's important in my opinion but doesn't deserve its own thread so I'm posting it here.
Lockpicking.
As far as I know removing any lock requires you to lock something else in turn. The only exception is if you already have a matching key that can be filed into a lock removal key. Otherwise, you have to make a new lock and key set, then experiment with Lock and Key A-Z to figure out which letter the lock you want to remove is keyed to.
In bell towns you often find locked doors and containers around because people are moving locks from the bakery or whatever to an empty chest to get them out of the way. Locks in general are niche tech with very limited uses. Most players don't know how to build or pick locks, and even if you do know how it's time consuming. Even if you know how AND you put in the time to lockpick the only real solution is a messy one that doesn't really remove any locks, just essentially moves them from one thing to another before scrapping the second set.
To begin with legitimate uses of a lock are extremely rare. For the most part they're only used to grief, and it's doubly effective because lock removal is implemented in such an ineffective way. I wish there was a way to do it with just a key so that the problematic lock can then be scrapped together as a set.
I saw this happening today in the two-bears bell town. Someone had blocked the oil pump and we got very lucky to have a conservative player that saved a tool slot for their pencil. Most people use them all by middle age at the latest.
It's so easy to do, too. The town was dead when I arrived and rang the bell. A few people showed up and by the time I went to ring it again the bell tower was blocked off. Someone was determined to kill the town, and it was so easy.
I did play a little with tool slots when they were bugged and present when a server had less than 15 people on it. Overall, I didn't like them, and found a few situations where none of the stated objectives for them got fulfilled. I suspect that towns run into similar problems when family size gets small or someone ends up the last person in town. I'm against tool slots on that basis, and from other things I've heard about them... I think one person has hypothesized them as rough on new players trying to learn different jobs. Also, there have been, and from what I've heard, still exist people maximizing the number of tool slots they have by unintended ways, which suggests them as not so good to me.
The original purposes for tool slots got described as follows:
jasonrohrer wrote:
1. To give you rich, interesting, and weighty choices to make in each life.
2. To ensure that each life really is different.
3. To force you to study and understand the most pressing problems facing your village now, and the problems it will likely be facing in the near future.
4. To enrich player interaction, communication, and cooperation, and short-circuit the tendency to "just do it all yourself" instead of coordinating your efforts with others.
5. To encourage trade between players.
6. To increase the importance of communication between village adults and incoming children.
7. To add an additional constraint to the game, because constraints are generally good. More constraints leads to more meaningful choices.
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8181
Have tool slots fulfilled these objectives in your experience? Some of them? None of them? Some of them kind of/sort of? Not at all? Very well?
Do tool slots have other benefits that are worth considering?
Do tool slots have serious disdvantages that should get noted?
Do tool slots make things easier on griefers, more difficult on griefers, or not change anything at all?
Please do not hesitate to share your opinion and any experiences related to tool slots.
1. There is no choice. I have to do what I must do. If I'm naked there's no other choice than making clothes. Etc. Those tools must be used.
2. Each life is the same. You do the same things you would otherwise. The only difference is which important thing you're left unable to do at the end.
3. There are always more problems. If the town needs something done, do it yourself. Otherwise it's not getting done at all. Tool slots prevent this. Solve one or two pressing problems then watch helplessly as everyone starves, because you can't make compost and nobody else knows how.
4. Which leads to interaction. Begging for some useful idiot to use one item on another one for you and usually being ignored. At best they do it grudgingly and you can make a smidgen of progress- until another tool-locked item is necessary five minutes later.
5. Trade does not exist in ohol. It is a communist society.
6. I've tried assigning jobs to children in the tool-slot update. They're often fairly receptive and want to help. They never ever know how. Can't bake, can't farm, definitely doesn't know smithing. Teaching is agonizingly slow and another baby is coming fast.
7. "Constraints are generally good," is that supposed to be a joke?
I think a big part of the problem with all these recent changes is that they're very much an afterthought. The game was completed, finished, released... and a year later dramatic changes are being made to the core gameplay. Nothing was built to work together, instead these changes were tacked on after the fact without any real integration. Hot coals are a classic example of this. They're used for cooking, making pads and dying clothes. You might only use them once in your entire life, but it still takes up a precious tool slow.
The concept can make sense and I understand the intent behind it. Encouraging people to practice a profession. Many new players embrace this while they're still learning. I know I did at least. You want to learn to cook? Spend a life as a baker. Still not sure how to smith? Spend a lifetime playing in the smithy. It makes sense and it's a good way to learn.
In practice forcing these constraints onto people is absolutely awful, most of all for experienced players that actually know how to craft and make a lot of different things. I said this in the original post introducing them as well. There are no benefits, only disadvantages. It's the wrong kind of difficulty. Difficult games are fun when they empower the player to overcome those challenges, not when they make you weaker instead. It's fun when you find a chunk of some obscure resource like niter and know exactly how to use it. The opposite is true when the game hard locks the desert that it spawns in and prevents you from ever grabbing the thing.
1.To make life in each parallel family feel unique
2.To encourage players to explore outside of their village bubbles and find other families
3.To encourage inter-family interaction, cooperation, and trade
4.To encourage players to bridge language barriers between families
5.To make climbing the upper reaches of the tech tree less linear, monotone, and certain
6.To give you more complex, interpersonal challenges
7.To partially model a beautiful facet of the real world, where different people from different areas specialize in different things
1. Clearly failed. Sometimes specific people of specific races are obligated to collect specific materials. This only happens in high-tech multicultural bell towns and since those places are so crowded already the pressure to do anything personally is very low. Outside of those towns it's irrelevant because you can't do anything with just your region-specific materials anyway. It just fills buckets and bowls with useless junk until the right family arrives.
2. 90% failure. People are forced to explore, but it's boring and highly ineffective. Towns are too far apart and time is too short for this to work. Full stop. I've spent a bunch of lives on this and it just doesn't work. You find 9/10 towns already dead and even if you find a live one you're already infertile or much too old to bring a girl home.
3. Limited success. Yes, this update was successful on point 3. However because it failed on point 2 actual inter-family meetings are rare. There are currently two types of towns in this game. Poor doomed towns with no water and not enough families, and mega cities with a bell tower and 4+ families. It only comes down to getting lucky. Even in the latter, they're doomed to get further and further away until nobody can ever make the trip to the bell any more.
4. Clear failure. Only the translators stand a chance of communicating. Even within the same race talking to another family is pointless. I stand around insulting them to their face all day and nobody realizes. You can't even get someone to pick up a note unless you threaten them with a knife first.
5. Clear failure. These limitations have only made the tech climb more linear and monotone. Again, take point 2's failure. Exploration is EXTREMELY monotone. The rubber bottleneck makes it extremely linear. There's no workaround. You MUST get rubber. This is the wrong kind of difficulty, where it's boring, frustrating and luck-based. It's completely artificial.
6. Mixed success. It's forcing people to live together and forcing them to communicate. These interpersonal challenges also existed before in the exact same way, but now you can't avoid them. You NEED foreigners. Which is also frustrating, because most people just ignore the gibberish and any other attempts to communicate. Unless you threaten to murder them, they won't even read the note you're passing.
7. Clear failure. This could have been a great success IF it was limited to things like cosmetics. Tattoos, dye and maybe some foods. Not essential technology. Visiting a brown town and getting tattoos would be really cool and fun. Dooming literally every town without brown people using artificial difficulty is definitely not cool or fun. It's a very clear failure.
Family specialization, tool slots and the rift were all very clear failures. It's very rare for me to think that any game is perfect, but ohol was. A great idea that was executed perfectly. That perfect game has been mutilated beyond recognition. It's disgusting to ruin art like that.
I had a similar idea, naturally generating dirt pathways according to heatmaps or something like that. If an area is heavily traveled, it becomes worn to dirt. Most tiles in and very near town would become dirt. No auto-running or movement speed bonus so it's not overpowered. They just provide a commonly traveled path.
It would make exploration easier if people in town had pathways to follow towards interest points, or nearby travelers had that extra bit of evidence that people inhabit this area. Often you find corpses or discarded items with no real way to know whether there's a settlement nearby or if it was just left a thousand tiles out in the wilderness.
"Dry newcomen pump with torn seal"
OHOL in six words.
The game in general is badly broken right now.
How do assassins help build civilization again? Because I don't think they do. How do assassians help lineage survival chances? I don't see how they would.
Anarcho-communism is the ideal political structure for ohol. I will not allow useless dukes or barons to disturb the working man with their 'leadership.'
People should do what they want, not what they're told to. In the words of the update, "I follow myself."
And so a new honorary title was born: assassin.
I will practice, promote and protect this profession to the greatest possible extent.
It's less of a thing now that you can just run away and automatically escape, but people have always killed by lurking at the edge of town. It's a classic serial killer tactic. Wait at the end of a long road or roam the area around town with a bow """hunting,""" your victims will die before they can ever tell anyone who killed them. Pick off a few that way and maybe then there are few enough defenders left in town to oppose you.
"play the hand your dealt everytime".
Very often that means folding when you know it's hopeless. You never bet on a losing hand. This analogy only proves that infant suicide is very often the wise choice.
...
Yes. It's blatantly stupid and should have been ignored like all the other popular and stupid ideas.
It's very much the type of mechanic that should have been included in the base game prior to release if it was ever going to remotely be a thing at all. Similar to tool slots and family specialization. Don't release a game and then dramatically alter its base mechanics in these harmful ways, that's literally cancer. Release a solid base then expand on it with new content. That's what was promised and it was a total lie.
The base game on steam release was perfect, an extremely rare gem that truly rates 10/10. Now it's trash, because it's being actively ruined. There is no excuse beyond ignorance and tragically poor taste.
All these awful updates one after another. They're hamstringing the game. At this rate I'm going to turn into a fulltime griefer. Idiots with crowns were bad enough. Who wants to deal with an idiot that has functional authority? Nobody with any understanding or mental capacity would even entertain these changes.
Personally, my infant deaths come from hopelessness. I'm born and I immediately see that this place is doomed. Yesterday I was born to see that everyone's naked and there's no well. Not even a spring site. A primitive camp with a small farm fueled by pond water. Any work I do here is pointless. What alternative do I have to suicide? Wander through bland uninteresting wilderness for an hour? Realistically my absolute best hope would be to find a dead town, and even then I would be alone since I was a boy.
Rather than waste a real time hour of my life I'd rather just die and try to find somewhere better.
Cars and planes definitely need some tweaking.
Maybe as a follow up for the family specialty update we could have a transportation update to facilitate trading and travel. A cheaper way to make roads is necessary. What we have now are essentially sidewalks that are too expensive, so they're only effective over short distances. Something like an asphalt road would be really nice. A more complex recipe than simply laying a stone, but also more productive so that roads spanning between villages become feasible.
On top of that make the car's fuel consumption based on distance rather than time and restrict it to roads so that it doesn't get lost. So then a garage and fueling station become part of each participant town's infrastructure, or spaced along the route. Something like a trailer could also be added for more carrying capacity, crafted using rubber tires and newcomen machining. Cars remain expensive and high tech, but also have strong practical uses to balance that out.
Honestly not sure what to do about planes though.
New players know how to do one thing, or maybe two things. "I can make pie!" is something that a passionate new player might say. Most people never use even the very limited noob tool slots. It's strictly a measure to handcuff better players so they can't keep towns alive by themselves. Same as the specialization update. In practice it dooms virtually all towns through rng. If you can't do everything in this game you can't do anything.
Some eyeglasses to extend visual range in the vanilla game would be welcome, but will probably never come because adding actual content is taking a hard backseat compared to jason's hard work at killing the game.
The tool slot system is a crappy gimmick that everyone hates, there's no doubt about that. Same with family specialization. It's his way of updating without doing any real work to add content.
Earlier today I was exploring and finding nothing but dead towns as usual. Decided to settle in and repopulate with my children. The town's only fire died because I couldn't kindle hot coals. Apparently adding kindling to restore a fireplace counts as using the hot coals tool slot. This system is beyond stupid.
My concern with tables is that they block walking, so if they became a common part of bakeries things could get crowded fast. Most buildings are small and the standard crates or slot boxes can already contribute a lot to feeling cramped.
Yeah it feels like some kind of "stun weapon" is missing...
If you're ginger the snowball works in a pinch.
Even just from a gameplay perspective, killing is absolutely necessary for many of the emergent 'stories' that make this game special.
We have pads, doctors and revenge killings. Cursing too. That's already enough of a counter for murderers.
High tech towns give you the luxury to do what you -want- to do rather than what you *have* to do. That's why I like them. Have you ever made or even eaten ice cream? Maybe now's the time! Want to learn newcomen smithing or the diesel engine? It's a great chance. Breed dogs, plant trees, make an igloo. Have fun with the nice town you were lucky to be born into.
With this awful world of tool slots and family specialization big towns are more fragile than ever. More families mean more people since spawns are distributed by family. They get crowded fast. That means more griefers, more berrymunchers and more murders. A doctor in the current diesel bell town will never want for patients. Same goes for any other profession. Even if you have a diesel pump well the hecking carrots are all gone because of munchers. Suddenly the town is 'bootstrapped' back down to eve levels of agriculture since soil and clothing also becomes locked thru the shepherding process.
We should have seen this coming, most players just eat anything regardless of value or age. Little kids eating pie or full grown adults munching berries. Oh look, the town's out of carrots again because everyone keeps eating them when really it's sheep food.
Suggestion: add armor that has a % chance of deflecting attacks, with that chance increasing with each piece worn.
This way the smith can outfit trustworthy villagers to act as town guards and take down any potential murderers.
Or more likely make the murderers invincible with the full suit of plate armor they looted from a dead old man as a baby.