One Hour One Life Forums

a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

You are not logged in.

#27 Re: Main Forum » Feedback Regarding Trading » 2019-07-31 12:32:57

jasonrohrer wrote:

Meanwhile, voluntary exchange is magically... voluntary!  If I don't want to eat at McDonalds or work at McDonalds, I just don't.

Sure, given the same amount of money, you can go to white castle, or checkers, or wendys. This is what choice amounts to for people who are hungry, but only have a few bucks for gas and food in the moment. And while the end result looks like variety and choice, all of these foods hurt people in the long term with consistent use.

So superficially it looks good, but is that really better than living in a society which promotes real choice? Real choice is having the money to choose unhealthy food, or to choose healthy food.

Regarding work, given the same amount of urgency and proximity to jobs, a person could work at Mcdonalds or white castle or checkers or wendys but these are all jobs which have an upper limit that is not all that high. Meanwhile someone like me who was born into a white middleclass community - which contains all the economic benefits of home loans and such that weren't allowed to non-white communities and all the network affects that result out of density of opportunity - I have the time and the resources to make a strategic decision about how to spend my time.

And I have the luxury to apply to different places, and eventually different colleges, and get plugged into another super dense community of opportunity, and have access to computer based jobs..

Sure you can say this is voluntary, but how much choice is there really in that. I didn't choose my upbringing, and the person stuck in the fast food industry didn't choose theirs. I want to live in a society that allows us real choice, not just the choice to choose our exact flavor of addiction.

What this means for One Hour One Life? Not sure.. Maybe nothing! I don't think anyone wants to be in an unfair system of reward..

Yet again, maybe the fair nature of One Hour One Life is the real reason trade isn't quite working yet..

[update]
More thoughts: One Hour One Life is essentially a class-less world. You can begin naked with nothing, and end your life with clothes and possessions, if that's your goal.. What if ascending classes was an inter-generation battle?  I started as a pauper, but I positioned my kids to be bakers, and maybe one day their great grand children will be oil barons.

#28 Re: Main Forum » Huge Flaws that need to be fixed » 2019-07-31 12:09:59

Really good point about the problem of things being hidden behind trees.. We need a solution for that.

Also a good point about griefing.. Limiting lives doesn't really do much when the amount of families is very limited.. it's easy to /die a couple times and get where you want.

I like the idea of limiting the creation of new families - it mirrors our world well.. there are no eves anymore - but does it create an intractable problem of making all families a bigger target?

I still see the value of the rift as a good avenue of exploration - the challenge is we're suddenly dealing with all these problems which were invisible when we were dealing with infinite space. Sure we could go back to not dealing with them, but they'd still be there.

#29 Re: Main Forum » In memoriam » 2019-07-30 19:34:21

It's worth it for the whimsy!

#30 Re: Main Forum » Analyzing arc 1 on Wondible's map » 2019-07-30 19:25:41

Interesting.. Looks like successful civilizations seem cluster near the edge.

Oh wow - that play button is awesome! Especially when a lot of people join..

#31 Re: Main Forum » Feedback Regarding Trading » 2019-07-30 19:14:35

It would be interesting if certain methods of production were so expensive you could only obtain them through specialization, but when you had them you could really crank out a lot.. Like a plank making machine that can do the job so much faster than an individual.

To get to economies of scale - at which point the surplus would be available for barter..

#32 Re: Main Forum » JUst ADD FUCKING CONTENT » 2019-07-27 12:27:33

Imagine reading a book series, and the readers were like, "just add more chapters, stop changing the plot!"

#33 Re: Main Forum » Changes for the next Arc run » 2019-07-26 14:18:41

I'm seeing a lot of this sentiment on this forum: You made a change, it didn't have the effect you wanted, therefore it was a horrible failure.

That's just design in general. You make a change based on your gut, you see how it changes things, you learn, and then you make another change.

I wouldn't want to play a game by a designer that tried to just "not make mistakes". This game would not have even gotten to this point with that mentality.  We'd still be living in infinite carrot farms.

People seem to be advocating for a "design by committee" approach. Maybe you genuinely think that is a good approach - if so I'm curious where you've seen instances of it working. In my life, I've only see design by committee produce watered down, weak experiences.

#34 Re: Main Forum » New hard mode update is incredibly satisfying » 2019-07-26 13:28:45

Yeah despite the chaos, some of this update seemed to call back to the early days of One Life for me - when people weren't yet good enough at farming to ensure a sustainable life.. Really curious to see how it goes..

#35 Re: Main Forum » Rifts » 2019-07-26 03:25:38

Hehe thanks for posting this! Made me check it out - I went in the game and had a pretty different experience than usual!

When I was born, the world was in chaos, it looked like a Don Hertzfeldt's.  I was named Saddie Sad. We roamed the world looking for food together- desperate people running in all directions, carrying baskets, looking frantic.

I died many times in close succession.. though not enough to run out.

I was born to a mom who died pretty quickly. Than a woman with a bow came along and fed me. Then she shot someone randomly. I followed her around and fed her when she got yellow fever. It was crazy and random!

Another life my mom led me to a jungle with so many bananas - she ended up leaving so I stayed and talked with a man who spoke a foreign language while we ate bananas until he died of old age.

It felt desperate and hopeless and very very much like the end of civilization. So if this happens when civilizations mismanage resources and drive the world into the ground, then I'd say it's pretty well done!

#36 Re: Main Forum » Jason this is the worst thing you've ever done and I'm really upset » 2019-07-26 03:18:27

Guys relax! It's going to be okay. We knew this was a big change coming.. this is how you explore new areas in game design - make a change, very unexpected things happen. Next up, iteration!

The alternative is a game that only changes in tiny ways and never reaches the ultimate vision of what it could be. He's gotta be able to make changes and respond to what happens.

#37 Re: Main Forum » The Greatest Life I Ever Lived » 2019-07-25 12:04:24

Karrots wrote:

This is lovely. Hope it makes it to the stories forum

Thanks! smile

#38 Re: Main Forum » Property Fences (shoutout to Burak Song) » 2019-07-25 11:50:57

RodneyC86 wrote:

Property should be first a private area for other reasons first maybe?

This made me think of something..
It's a fairly contrived idea, but the genetic scoring has shown me that sometimes it's okay to create a motivation, and maybe it leads to something else..

What if warmth had to do with proximity to close family members? So to recharge your warmth, you wanted to be by a fire, and just be around those who were closest to you? (Perhaps it had a multiplier effect not found in a public fire)

What if the affect of food was improved by eating only with close family members? They say people who eat with friends are happier..

This could be scaled up and down to see what would be optimal. But I imagine the outcome would be that families would gravitate towards some private home time, before going back into the world to work. And it would be good for the civilization for everyone to have their own fireplaces, because they would collectively take up less food in the long run.

The most successful civilizations would be those that created private property to optimize their food.

ah.. I see what this gets at: Self care. We optimize for a lot of survivalist things in this game, but in the civilizations we live in, we're used to taking a break from it all. You do better work when you've had some time to really relax, to spend time with those closest to you.

There is a need for family time that is recharged, and has a real benefit. Yes, once you have your private family space, maybe you decide to build a baking business - but maybe you don't. Either way it would still be worth it.

Okay that's the idea.. Let's do some imagining of how it might play out:
In the beginning the effect would probably just be multiple fire places.. and each immediate family would try to keep others away. But there would be a good incentive for others to come near, because they'd get a benefit. Hmm.. So likely there would be yelling - stay away from my fire! And early on, that might be it.. Though early on, you probably wouldn't be able to have a lot fireplaces anyways. But overtime, you might see neighborhoods form - they aren't at war with each other, but they mutually benefit from having separate fireplaces.

People who don't know would mess it up a lot, and after the yelling, the knives would come out. And people might be cool with this kind of killing - others who mess up a fire's warmth with their presence are messing this up for the rest!

So that might be it.. Maybe it would never become useful for the fire to be surrounded by a private property - maybe it'll just become a social norm backed by knives? ..Of course this just brings more griefing and violence into our communities..

To add another contrivance - maybe the bonus only takes affect when it is in a fenced in land, and there are only 4 or five close family members around. That way, this is a kind of gameplay that happens later into civilization, would prevent the added griefing as the effect only occurs once private property has already been created, and it represents the psychological need for safety.

Like if my house had no doors, I would probably still be okay most of the time, but I would know that at any time someone could disrupt my rest - and that itself would have a negative effect on my recharge time.

Ah so this is the need at stake here: Privacy

Privacy and self care. 

Okay that's all I got. Fun thought experiment.

#39 Re: Main Forum » Property Fences (shoutout to Burak Song) » 2019-07-25 02:24:17

This is kinda interesting - looking at how property functions currently it is a really big investment - and therefore is only worth doing if you're going to get something really big from it. This trade-off calculus means that yeah, if you're going to build property, and you're not just role-playing something, then the best way to make it worth while is to grab whatever you can and hoard it.

It's actually surprising how long it takes to set up a property - probably because ropes are not exactly hanging around not being used, and property sticks are not used often either. When I have messed with property (not hording, more roleplaying a mother passing down property) i would spend time putting down fences, then more time orienting them properly (would love if they could self orient), and then yet more time building gates and such.. It's not really practical to do in the midst of caring for children, so probably better to do as a father.

But yeah, if you actually have property, what then? There's nothing inside of it, so that means either trying to build some stuff, or just taking stuff from the common space and claiming it for your own.

What's weird about that, is we clearly don't have that relationship with private property in real life (mostly). I just arrived at home, and I feel at peace - it's quiet, no one will bother me, I can relax - turn off my social brain, turn off my safety brain - I don't have to worry about getting hit by cars or being aware of my surroundings. It's like my stress meter goes down when I get home.

I don't have to buy food here - it's all stored.. I don't have to enter into any financial transaction to get my needs met. That's maybe what home is about. I can invite people over and we can hang out for as long as we want.

Not saying that's what it's gotta be like in game, but it is weird that the way the game is right now, private property = hording.

#40 Re: Main Forum » The Greatest Life I Ever Lived » 2019-07-24 11:37:14

Tea wrote:

Oh I think I've met you ! Was it a women who brought you to the other town ? I saw one of my cousins coming to the fire and introducing us to a stranger, an old woman with curly brown hair. "I brought a guest", she said.

I could hardly understand you but it was sweet seeing all the people gathered near the fire to listen to you.

Yep, that was probably me! Good people in that village smile

#41 Main Forum » The Greatest Life I Ever Lived » 2019-07-24 04:31:32

seth
Replies: 7

This all really just happened.

I was born in the forest - my mom picked me up and brought me home.

We walked in there were two fresh graves, and one guy who had been stabbed. "Who did this to you? What was his name?" My mom cried.

"I don't know" the man gasped, and fell to the floor.

My mom had another kid, and then ran out the door. When she came back, we knew something was wrong.
"There's no food.." She said with resignation, and moments later, she too fell down dead.

My brother and I looked at each other in despair and huddled by the fire, hoping on the chance someone would come save us. But no one came. Because no one was there. The town was quiet.  My brother died from starvation.

Just then I became of age - I immediately ran outside, and sure enough, all the berry bushes were dried up.
I ran east through the forest, and came upon wild berries. Enough to survive.

I set about restoring the farm - trying to save some of the dying bushes. Soil was plentiful, but the well in the center of town was broken, and I had no idea how to fix it, so I set about carrying bowls of water from a nearby watering hole.

A strange man showed up, and I couldn't understand him.
"Py" he said. "Py" I responded.

We didn't understand.

Time passed. I had a son named Guadalupe. I told him the story of his people.

He was born bilingual, and he could partially understand what the stranger was saying. They spoke back and forth.

My son translated his words - the stranger's village was to the north, and would we like to travel with him?

"Yes" I said. My son told the stranger, and he was pleased.

We began the journey north. I was nervous, but excited. How would we be received in this new town? Would they treat us well?

The jungle stretched endlessly. It seemed to grow thicker and thicker, and the mosquitoes more numerous.

That's when my son came down with the fever, and then our guide. I grabbed a banana and fed the stranger, and went to feed my son.

Too late. He died right there in the jungle.

I tried to feed the stranger, who only could say "L!" "L!"
I got the idea. I fed him, but not fast enough, and he too died.

Right then, I had a new baby. I picked her up, and dodged the mosquitoes as we fought our way out of the jungle.

When we had some space to breathe, I named her "Miracle" and we ate berries in the middle of no where while I told her my story, which was hers too.

I decided it did not make sense to proceed to the town - the jungle was too dangerous, and our guide was dead. Instead I would take Miracle to her homeland back south.

We traveled a very long distance, and finally broke through to the edge of the jungle... just to be lost in a nameless wetland I did not recognize.
We wandered and wandered, and I was beginning to believe we would be forced to wander the wildness for the rest of our lives.

But then miracle said "Over here" and she ran to the left. She had spotted signs of life!
..But in her excitement, she had lost her caution - a rattlesnake bit her in the belly.

"Miracle!" I shouted, "Noo.."

There was nothing I could do. I walked with her into town, and we saw the bushes, bursting with berries.

Suddenly my grief was alleviated by wonder.
"You led us home. I'm glad you to see it."
She seemed happy, as the life faded from her cheeks.
"Maybe this is the miracle."
She left me - in the same town again. Alone.

I ate berries in somber reflection, pondering the irony of this existence. Miracle had found our way, but could not survive to live out her life.

In the midst of my wondering, I heard a voice - "Py"
I turned, it was another stranger, from the same town! He indicated he was traveling north, as if he was inviting me to travel.

For the sake of my son, I couldn't turn down that invitation.

So I went back to the endless jungle, dodging trees, and mosquitoes. My guide was very attentive, turning back to check on me frequently, and when I was bit by mosquitoes, he was by my side, feeding me back into good health. Showing me how one is fed back to health.

We moved forward, and we came upon a sight I was not ready for. My dead son lay under a banana tree, our previous guide beside him.

I grieved over my son's grave, with the shameful realization that I could have saved him, if I only I had known how back then. But our guide was insistent that we proceed on.

We escaped the jungle, and finally came upon the town and made our way to the center. I rested on a bearskin rug, and felt the fire warm my pock marked skin.

I was old now. An old woman.

The village was full of friendly strangers whose words I could not understand. They smiled at me, and I smiled back. Part relieved, part exhausted from my journey, and just grateful to have finally made it, after so much despair.

A mother of the village had a baby, and placed him down next to me. I remembered my own son, with his quick mind and ability to pick up strange tongues. And I began to tell my tale. The whole thing, about the murder, my mother, the farm, the stranger, my son, the jungle, my daughter, the rattlesnake - everything. The little child listened on intently - signaling his emotion at the right moments. Letting me know he was listening without interrupting my memory.

When I got to the end, I knew that my life was truly at an end, and I could tell he was moved. I asked him to pass on the story. He said he would.

And after that, with my journey complete, with my tale all told, I laid back on the bearskin rug, felt the warmth of the roaring blaze, and thought of my mother who had fed a fire once, which gave me a chance at this life, so many years ago.

http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5017417

#42 Re: Main Forum » You're a total piece of shit if you spawn a bear on an Eve camp » 2019-07-23 23:00:04

I imagined this scrawled on the inside of a cave from days long ago..

#43 Re: Main Forum » The start of an Eight Spoke Farm » 2019-07-23 22:55:26

Hey, dig this thread - Love the idea of experimenting with real life layouts in game.. should make for an interest time when exploring a new town!

#44 Re: News » Update: New Brothers » 2019-07-20 23:46:53

Love it!

[update]
Just played born into a major town, son of a baker. Was taught baking by mom and baked many a pie. Apprenticeship is great! And it's fun having a dedicated kitchen..

There seemed to be plenty of water, so I guess it'll probably take some time before we see major towns having water problems.

No children wanted to be my apprentice though, so I didn't get the joy of teaching someone else.. It seemed difficult to coordinate.. to create structure in our town.  Like we have no berries, can someone tend to the berries?

It occurred to me, I would have liked if the kitchen was my own property, and I could exchange pies for berries and other supplies.. but the coordination factor of that is too high. (plus, I guess I'd have to replace the door with a fence) It's just easier to go off looking for the stuff and hoping someone helps.

#45 Re: Main Forum » Quick jab at the negativity. » 2019-07-11 03:07:29

Thanks for posting this! I totally agree..

What follows is a stream of consciousness rant on design in general.

I do web dev / design, and something I've come to really appreciate is how design has overlap across the board. That post that Jason posted bout feedback that's actually helpful makes a lot of sense in all fields.. In game design as well as web design, people in general tend to make the same mistake - framing feedback as solutions rather than describing the problem better.

In the world of web design this comes across like "Make this button bigger and red". That kind of feedback is not useful for a good designer. Better feedback is "This page makes me feel anxious".  Diving into that can help the designer make much better decisions.

Now, in the world of web design, another web designer can provide emotional feedback, and possibly even some solutions - though honestly I think good decisions come from playing around with ideas and seeing how the look next to each other.. In game design however, there are so many other invisible constraints to deal with.. Game engine architecture, data, performance issues.. It's difficult for anyone who is merely playing the game to give good solutions - only insight into the problems.

Much respect for the craft of game design and Jason as one of the most innovative!  It's pretty awesome we get to be a part of a game that will likely be looked back upon as a milestone of innovation of our time.. long after the mainstream ones have faded into memory.

#46 Re: Main Forum » An observation » 2019-05-15 02:55:47

jasonrohrer wrote:

I've been doing this for 15 years.
The tenor of the discussion.  The rush to judgement.  The amount of complaining.  The amount of personal attacks.  The amount of entitlement from the playerbase.  The review bombing, etc.
...
Obviously, if it bothered me too terribly, I'd have given up long ago.  But I am interested in the general phenomenon, and where it's coming from, and why it has changed.

Thanks for this post.. I am seriously impressed at your ability to keep cool and approach this in a mindful, curious way, as opposed to lashing back. There's been more than enough opportunities to do that!

As an involved member of the Castle Doctrine community my memory immediately jumps to how positive and encouraging that community was.. that was the kind of thing that made it easy to want to get involved and build, and I created one of my first web apps for that game (Castle Fortify), and felt this amazing feeling of encouragement from that bunch.

I keep coming back to this forum because when the content is good, it's insightful and thought provoking. But there is way more entitlement and anger here to sift through. Despite my interest in game development, and my light attempts at game development, I'm realizing that reading through many of these comments triggers the thought: "Wow, I'm glad I'm not a game developer." I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking that.. Who'd sign up for this know this was how it was gonna be?

And that's a shame, because all the people who are opinionated and enjoy games should try their hand at some game creation so we can play those ideas! But with this kind of negativity, I think we'd all rather be on the sidelines and let someone else take the hit.. It's a lot of missed opportunity..

As for why, well, the most obvious thing is this game is a whole lot more accessible than TCD, so there's a lot less of a filter - a much wider range of people can play it, including those who maybe have less an interest in the spaces indie games can explore. The relationship is perhaps more transactional there.. it's like I PAY YOU FOR GAME = YOU MAKE ME HAVE FUN TIME.  I guess there's nothing wrong with that, but boy did they pick the wrong developer! I find myself laughing when I see people hoping that they can peer pressure you into make this game choose fun over fulfilling on it's promise.

But it's the kind of laugh I don't really enjoy..

Lastly, I'll say I find that my capacity for judging other people correlates strongly with how much I judge myself, or how I fear I would be judged, if I were to fully express myself. I try to notice myself judging, like how I'm judging the judgers in this case..

I wouldn't be surprised to find that it's the failed promises of our society which are causing peoples feelings about games to be heightened.. Like the correlation with mass cynicism about the future of our lives and our world makes us all focus more on things we use to unwind or escape..

(update) Just checked out some more posts on the forum and tuned into to my experience of people personally insulting Jason for game design decisions, and realized I've seriously underplayed the way this makes me feel. I feel anger and disgust for the way some people choose to express themselves on this forum. I feel dirty. I like reading Rohrer's posts on the way he makes game decisions, but the emotional sewage I have to wade through to get to that.. is it worth it? ... I must like feeling this way if I keep doing it... right? Knowing that, it's time for me to get off the forum. I invite anyone reading this to check in with your body and see how it's affecting you as well. stay healthy.

#47 Main Forum » Solutions for casual genocide and asymmetric violence » 2019-05-12 15:43:19

seth
Replies: 0
Casual Genocide

I haven't experienced swords in the game yet, but from what I'm hearing it sounds like swords are not being used by rival villages in order to get at one villages resources, or to end some inter generational conflict, but rather for individuals to engage in the joy of mass murder (violence for violence sake), or - if the opponent is armed - in war for war sake.

In advanced societies, there's a way to make sure that individuals don't draw an entire society into war - one can't just pick up a gun and go invade a neighboring territory.

The recent discovery of an ancient battle ground concluded this:

“This implies that the resources the people of Nataruk had at the time were valuable and worth fighting for, whether it was water, dried meat or fish, gathered nuts or indeed women and children. This shows that two of the conditions associated with warfare among settled societies—control of territory and resources—were probably the same for these hunter-gatherers, and that we have underestimated their role in prehistory.”
Read more: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science- … Muk1cUg.99

Of course this is an obvious thing to us - in our history, great bloody conflicts have a great cost, and so the gain must surpass that cost. Right now, the gain is pleasure of killing in the consequence environment of a game that lasts an hour.

I think there's a lot of potential in this feature but it needs to be refined in a way that doesn't result in what can be called "casual genocide" - an unthinking execution of a an atrocity for no real purpose.

Asymmetric Violence

I woke up this morning thinking about fences. How I would set up fences to protect an entire town from the threat of casual genocide. I would create a few rooms near the entrance with pieces of paper instructing visitors to drop their backpack by a door, and then move away. Their backpack would be inspected and then given back to them and then they could enter. That way new visitors could be safely allowed entry into the society.

That's when I realized that I had recreated TSA.

320px-Thank_you_TSA_%2825958200086%29.jpg

Even given the threat of onslaught by a neighboring civilization, it seems an unreasonable leap to our present state of assuming everyone foreign must be treated like a dangerous killer in order for the safety of everyone else.

Really, that only came around when people had the ability to engage in massively asymmetrical violence. Bombs and automatic weapons.. In a real civilization, 2 people with swords would not be able to take down 20 people without swords. Because for humans even a tree branch can be used as a weapon - meaning in desperate times, even a farmer can have some combat effectiveness.

An army should be required for most aggressive combat, or waging a war with an advanced civilization, but everyday people should have some measure of defense.

Call to Arms

Someone had mentioned a watch tower to observe an approaching enemy - what if there was a "call to arms" bell that you could ring, which would render tall objects (gardening hoe, straight shaft) useful as defensive weapons which could disarm people brandishing swords for a short period of time? This could reduce the asymmetry of these weapons..

If a culture with little interest in war could still fend off an attack with this simple bell, then war would likely require a greater army to be successful - so perhaps this could work..

War Drum

While I'm playing armchair game designer, another thing that would make war require more consensus could be the addition of a war drum - you can't go to war without a war drummer!

184px-Brooklyn_Museum_-_Study_for_%27The_Wounded_Drummer_Boy%27_-_Eastman_Johnson_-_overall.jpg

He is the weak point of the attack - in order for swords to be used again, they must hear the beat of the war drum. If he's killed, the attack will pretty much have to be ended, and without him, any one individual is going to lack effectiveness.

Mass Sword Ownership

People have mentioned sheath for swords, which I like, but of course it can't be the only thing. It mirrors a society where you walk down the street and everyone has a gun with a holster. Far from feeling safe, you have the knowledge that at any moment an incredibly violent scene could break out with bullets flying all over the place. And even if it doesn't, that threat is always there.

I think the effect of living in a village where everyone has sheathed swords would be the same - a constant anxiety about the threat of genocide which manifests itself as hyper vigilance against invisible enemies.

Reasoned Conflict

Hmm.. Looking back, I'm realizing none of this addresses property, which is of course the goal of much of these changes. Yes we can use fences and private ownership to fend off genocidal terrorism - but that's a rather extreme use case!

I really am interested to see what happens if different civilizations are capable of harvesting different items from the earth. In that case, the only way other civilizations would be able to get certain things would be be from theft or trade, which seems to me a good recipe for private property.. and for reasoned conflicts among civilizations.

#48 Re: Main Forum » The future of OHOL! (GRIEFERS HEAVEN) » 2019-05-12 02:38:19

futurebird wrote:

Really it's not the killing though, it's the lack of diversity in families and "kill the outsider" vibe. I'm an outsider IRL and it just kinda stresses me out and isn't really fun. So, time for a break.

Thanks for sharing that - I hope the vibe of the game stays fairly chill.. I had a great experience with the language barrier aspect, so I'm hopeful it will continue to be.. then again I haven't encountered swords yet..

#50 Re: Main Forum » Surely this is good for the game..encourages trade and family survival » 2019-05-12 02:26:47

Hehe, I remember hearing the bell ring and thinking.. anyone who heads to that bell is walking into a massacre.

So far, haven't encountered swords, but encountering foreigners has been one of the best experiences so far!

I suspect people are going to have to learn to make property in order to defend themselves from an attack..

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB