a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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oddlyeven - I'm not sure; I've never done the build myself. You might get some useful assistance asking on Discord. I know that Awbz regularly builds after each new release, so he could probably help.
GreatShawn - The sticky is written to get the private server running under Linux. There is now a Windows version of the server which is easier to get running, assuming you have Windows.
Download the win_full package
Unzip it
Go to the "server" folder, right-click on "runServer.bat" and choose "Run as administrator"
In the game client, connect to localhost.
That's it!
Are client, server, and data files all three on the latest version? Have you double-checked?
Are you doing your own build or using someone's prebuilt version?
I'm using Windows 7, Awbz' prebuilt server for Windows, the Steam client (as a base install), and Awbz' modded client dropped into the Steam folder. It's working perfectly, but at the time of the last update I (and many other people) got the stacked-item texture issue you're reporting (on the official servers). It was fixed either by another update Jason pushed out right afterwards, or a restart of the servers, or both.
happynova +1
I caught the tail end of that (in fact, I think I'm the baby in the bottom left corner in that picture). I'm glad people had fun with it, but from my perspective it was just kinda silly... until it turned all stabby, and then it was just annoying. I assumed the people stabbing and being stabbed were basically all consenting to the roleplaying, so I'm not feeling sorry for them or angry at them... but I stayed away from it, and after all the bloodletting was done, things were a lot more quiet and productive.
I just kept my distance and started trying to clean up the town, which was in a totally shitty condition. It got easier to work on once the RPers and murderers and revenge killers were all dead, because they stopped crowding around the smithy and bakery.
Someone was hauling in eggs from the swamplands like a crazy person. There were probably a hundred of them, spread out all over the berry farm, cluttering up everything. You think milkweed seeds and dry beans are bad? This was worse. I'm not sure how much time I spent clearing out space again, but it was a lot, and it was annoying. I'm guessing this was part of the "goose cult" roleplaying going on, so [ shrug ].
Anyway, I think it's cool that stuff like this can just come out of nowhere at random and take on a life of its own. But for the people on the outside, not having fun with it as insiders, it can become pretty eye-rolling.
This was shitty. Don't do this.
If you're on Windows and are having trouble getting the VirtualBox Ubuntu image to work, try using the native Windows server package made by Awbz instead. It's simple to install and run.
Download the win_full package
Unzip it
Go to the "server" folder, right-click on "runServer.bat" and choose "Run as administrator"
In the game client, connect to localhost.
That's it!
its still not worth 3 iron imo, you can find a pond and fill bucket with a bowl
same as carrot seeds
That's reasonable.
if you boil water wait it and take it out put one back
noobs cannot run a pump so if you do it right after then you can fill it back
You have to fire the boiler, take out five buckets, and put one back. To do that all at once so that the noobs can't take the last bucket, you either need to bring five buckets to the well when you fire it, or have a cistern nearby.
It's been reported that "die of old age and then respawn as an eve in the same camp" only works if you first spawned as an eve, and only one time. I don't know if anyone has verified this by looking at the source code.
Having two pumps (or a cistern next to a single pump) is absolutely necessary to guard against accidental deadlock.
If there are two pumps, a smart player will always check both every visit. If one is dry, take a bucket from the wet one and fill the dry one's boiler.
If there is one pump and a cistern, a smart player will always check the pump every visit. If it's wet, empty it into the cistern, and put the last bucket back into the boiler. If it's dry, take a bucket from the cistern and put it into the boiler. If the boiler is filled, leave it alone and get water from the cistern. If the cistern is empty, fetch coal and fire the boiler, then empty it into the cistern and put the last bucket back into the boiler.
If there is only one pump and no cistern, a smart player will be screwed, because a dumb player will get there first and take the last bucket without refilling the boiler.
there is no such thing as depending on how much iron you got
till two soil, respect others work, respect you kids who will grow up with less resources than you
If there's two shovels and iron in the smithy, but compost isn't up (or has failed) and fertile soil is not close, then you should double-till one soil. Iron is the only long-term constraint in theory, but in reality a) the long-term is constrained by mismanagement or intentional destruction, not exhaustion of non-respawning resources and b) the short-term constraints are more important.
And the short-term constraints are almost never iron. Mostly it's time, labor, man-minutes. And when it comes to the labor cost of an extra till versus an extra soil, it's no contest. Again, assuming that there's no compost and no close soil, an extra soil costs one-third of a fetch quest while an extra till costs one one-hundred-and-fiftieth of a fetch quest. The iron quest might be longer, but it's not fifty times as long.
If compost is working, or is going to start working shortly, or if there are fertile soil pits just outside of camp, then yes, single-till two soil, always.
plate efficiency: eggs are wasted anyway so they arent as good as you think but more importantly, they prevent you from having pies or bread
Eggs are fine early on when baking isn't up yet. Baking is quick to start and easy to do, but eggs are even quicker and easier.
Long-term eggs are bad.
That's really interesting about the stone hoe.
With the hatchet, you always have one (at least for a while) because you can't get to fire from startup without it. But stone hoes seem like a mistake to make - early on, you don't have the rope to spare so it's better to use skewers from nature, and later you have plenty of iron but better uses for the ropes you've grown (buckets, carts) so you stick with steel.
A lot of the ideas implied in this thread depend on iron being a limited resource, but in practice it's not, and you're usually optimizing on some other variable.
Total curses received.
Bringing this old thread back up because it was just mentioned in another thread today.
i want to add my voice to the many others in this thread saying "No, Jason, we don't want griefers and don't need the 'drama' that they cause." I don't want OHOL to be a competitive game. I especially don't want to be competing against players whose goal is not "try to destroy the town" but rather "try to ruin people's fun".
And let's be clear. Griefers are not playing within the game's paradigm. If Jason designated an "antagonist" role:
The designated players, if they were griefers, would not be "antagonists", trying to improve the other players' experiences by acting as an opposition for them to struggle against; they would simply take it as a license to be as disruptive as possible to everyone else's activities without regard to anyone else's desires or gameplay experience
The griefers, if they were not the designated players, would not refrain from their griefing ways, they would simply continue being disruptive even without the implied license to do so.
Griefers are not the noble opposition. They are not the devil's advocate. They are not the actor hired to play the bad guy in a movie. They are not the game-master's buddy who he brings in to play the traitor within the PC's party.
Griefers are there to ruin everyone else's fun, period. That's how they get their fun. They're simply hooligans. They're not playing the black pieces against your white in chess; they're the kids who steal the king while your back is turned and then laugh at you when you try to figure out where the king went.
If I could do it, I would ban them. In my book, they aren't welcome and don't deserve to play. Donkey Town is an excellent idea and a brilliant solution by Jason, because it's a soft ban that allows for forgiveness of mistakes (whether by the cursed player or the cursing players) if the player is sufficiently motivated to continue playing the game. It's better than an outright ban - but in principle, in my opinion, griefers deserve to be banned, rather than accepted as a part of the game design because the game would be boring without them.
The game is not boring without them; the game is not interesting with them. There's no challenge in dealing with griefers. The stupid ones (most of them) get killed and cursed - that's not a challenge, it's just an annoyance. Dealing with such a griefer takes time away from the enjoyable tasks of the game, and if you happen to be one of the ones they've targeted, welp, there goes those thirty minutes of your life (your real life - that was thirty minutes spent working on something that's now lost to you, and you'll never get that time back).
And the ones that aren't stupid aren't challenging to deal with either, because there is no dealing with them. Anyone who truly puts their mind to it and wants to just kill a town has a dozen unstoppable ways to do it and will not get caught. It's a mildly entertaining challenge for them, but just a hopelessly ensured disaster for the rest of us.
Please don't legitimize the things they do.
And with the Newcomen Pump, 1 axe use = 40 water
Iron/water = 0.000125628140703518
Is it more iron-efficient to produce kindling with an axe, or with a stone hatchet?
Let me try the math:
One hatchet = four milkweed = eight soil + four water + four tills [assuming sharp stone and straight branch are free]
(154/1759 till) + (210/1759 dig) + (544/1759 water) = 1 soil + (420/1759 mutton pie) + (105/1759 sheepskin)
(0.70039795338 till) + (0.95508811824 dig) + (2.47413303013 water) = 8 soil + (1.9101762365 mutton pie) + (0.47754405912 sheepskin)
One hatchet
= (4.70039795338 till) + (0.95508811824 dig) + (6.47413303013 water)
= 0.04700861092 iron + 0.01223271336 iron + 0.00081333329 iron
= 0.06005465757 iron
with (1.9101762365 mutton pie) + (0.47754405912 sheepskin) as an additional byproduct
One hatchet use = 1/41 hatchets
One hatchet use = 0.00146474774 iron
with 0.0465896643 mutton pie + 0.01164741607 sheepskin as an additional byproduct
One axe use = 0.0050251256281407 iron
So using an axe to create kindling instead of a hatchet uses not quite four times the iron, and sacrifices roughly four-and-a-half mutton pies and one sheepskin for each axe used.
Note that in the above calculation, the iron cost of water assumes you're using an axe for kindling, even though the calculation itself shows that it would be more iron-efficient to use a hatchet instead.
btw, betame, thanks for running the numbers and posting your results. I love this kind of stuff!
Also worth noting that there are other limited resources besides iron, but they don't factor into long-run food production. Clay, big rocks, flat rocks... even wild animals. There's only so many bearskin rugs that can ever be made, for example. So if your tribe's one true desire is to tile the map with a checkerboard made of oven bases, stone blocks, roads, and bearskin floors, then eventually your desires will be frustrated.
However, like iron, these resources are effectively infinite but at the same time are expensive and become more expensive as they get used up.
---
Edit: I'm wrong. Bear caves respawn bears in twenty-four hours. So we can pave the entire map in bearskin-covered boards!
Iron is the ultimate limit to food production (and hence all other activity, regardless of what other resources it may use). And now that we have water pumps, it's the only such limit.
However, I have never seen a mature town with an iron shortage. This leads me to believe that there has never been a mature town that became abandoned due to lack of iron. I suspect that towns have always become abandoned due to other causes (most of them preventable), such as compost cycle failure, famine due to population surge exceeding capacity and reserves, bear attacks, murder, infertility, bad luck with baby sex ratios, mass migration, etc.
Until we reach the point where towns actually have iron shortages, iron can be considered effectively infinite... but even so, even now, iron is still expensive, and gets increasingly expensive as the nearby supplies get exhausted. Food (and everything else) can be measured in iron, but iron itself is best measured in labor - how many man-years does it take to find and bring back the next piece of iron ore? How many lives have to be dedicated to hauling iron instead of other, more entertaining activities?
Also, the value of something - iron, a shovel, a compost heap - depends not just on its cost, but also on its availability. When there's ten iron sitting in the smithy, then iron is cheap; when there's only one, it's incredibly dear. Same thing with tools. If there's only one shovel, then it's extremely valuable, no matter how much iron is lying around. Yes, you can make another one when it breaks... but making it takes time and talent, and many critical tasks are time-and-talent-sensitive. When it breaks, you may not have the luxury of waiting until a competent smith can be found, asked to make a new one, and given the time to do so.
So. Should you rage at the idiot who went and buried all the bones? If he used the only shovel, yes. Even moreso if it was the only shovel and the smith is out of iron. But if the forge is well-stocked and there's tools everywhere, then sure, go ahead, feel free to indulge in some civic beautification efforts.
Wheat farm next to bakery.
Think of it the other way around. The bakery should be next to (or near) the wheat farm.
Wheat, sheep, berries, carrots, and compost are too tightly interrelated for them to be very far apart. So the wheat farm's position will always be close to the others.
The bakery will usually be set up away from the farm. Why? Because first the kiln gets built, and then the kiln becomes the forge, and then someone makes an oven and starts making pies... but there's no room to do that near the farm, because the forge is next to the farm, so the oven gets built near the forge but further away from the farm.
What to do?
Move the bakery!
An oven is two adobe. Go set up an oven where you want it to be, in close proximity to the wheat farm (but leave enough room for the farm to grow, and to cycle through multiple plots, and with lots of room to thresh the wheat separately!). Then carry some empty baskets and a stack of plates over there, grab a couple bowls and a stone, and poof you have a new bakery! Leave the already cooked pies behind, and from time to time bring more baskets and plates over.
You'll be so much more efficient in the new location that in no time flat all the pies will be at the new bakery and everyone will be wondering what to do with the empty old one. Send someone with a pick to tear it down and put people's minds at rest.
Dedicated cleaner/sorter. Eggs to eggs, plates to bakery, broken tools to smithy, all carpenter stuff to one place. All tailor stuff to another. IMO this can really affect the well being of a town. (close to) useless stuff to a waste place.
I've been taking on this role myself recently. It's fun. It's a role that you don't have to compete with anyone to do (unlike smithing, where it's hard to have more than one or maybe two smiths), and you never run out of work to do because nobody has the brains god gave a gooseberry and knows how to move useless garbage out of the way and put useful things where they will be used.
Plus you get to be the grumpy old man complaining about how nobody does anything right and the whole town is full of retards. That's always fun.
And I absolutely know that this has a huge effect on the survival of the town. Very few people realize how devastating clutter can be. But it means the difference between getting a new hoe in time to plant a new wheat crop and get compost working again, versus a famine because compost stopped because wheat stopped because tilling stopped because the hoe broke and nobody could get a hoe made because the smithy was filled with bone needles and omelettes.
Also, you end up travelling all over the town so you can keep appraised of what's going on everywhere. This too is a lot of fun, and is also valuable to the town. You can help coordinate people to get things done that are most urgently needed. And you always know where everything is, and so can help others find what they need.
Making your own private server is easy now, if you're using Windows, thanks to Awbz.
Go to https://github.com/Awbz/OneLife/releases/latest
Download the win_full package
Unzip it
Go to the "server" folder, right-click on "runServer.bat" and choose "Run as administrator"
In the game client, connect to localhost
That's all there is to it!
In the settings folder under the server folder, there are a bunch of configuration files that you can edit to control things like whether or not you randomly spawn, whether you always spawn in the same place, where exactly you spawn, etc.
You won't get to interact with other players (unless you invite them to join you on your private server and open up port forwarding on your router), but you can live life after life after life in the same camp by yourself and practice your civilization-building skills, if that's what you're interested in.
Well regen has been nerfed to effective nothingness (one bowl per hour), so you lose effectively nothing by putting a pump on it.
You want at least two pumps close to each other, so that when you light one and it finishes pumping, you can take the first bucket out of the newly pumped well and put it in the other one to give it a full boiler. That way you never accidentally get deadlocked where you need a bucket of water to fill the boiler but you need to fill the boiler to get a bucket of water.
Stew is a good transition food; better than berries, faster and easier to get going than mutton pies (you don't have to wait on the sheep pen to get made, stocked, and tended), easier to do in large quantities than early pies (you don't need a ton of plates; two crocks and a bowl will feed a crowd).
You just need someone who knows how to do it.
Yum bonus is a cute toy for people who know about it but has little practical effect for typical players in typical situations.
If your settlement is facing a food crisis it's probably too poorly developed to have a significant diversity of food available, and the actions needed to resolve the crisis (usually fixing some impending shortage in some critical resource) are much higher priority than pursuing a yum bonus. Trying to maximize your bonus is likely to get in the way of acting quickly to fix the problem.
If your town has lots of different types of food available, it probably has a solid food production base and an excess of food overall, in which case the yum bonus plays little part in the future course of the town. Eating to maximize yum will reduce the town's food consumption, but since food isn't a constraint in such a town, it doesn't matter.
The thing is, the bigger achievements are often team works. Maybe the great grand daughter built a well, but her uncle is the one who did a mission to get iron, her brother did the smithing to produce the shovel, and her mom brang the 10 rocks needed to make the well.
In the system I proposed, everyone's most significant ("most interesting") contributions to the settlement - whatever they were - would be recognized. Building the well, getting iron, gathering rocks, smithing, whatever. Everyone's contributions have knock-on effects, some direct, most indirect. No need to credit all four people with building the well; just show the main things that each person did - not just some particular well they helped with, but what they did for the community overall.
I feel like if we did something like this, maybe people would fight over the achievements.
I don't think they would, but perhaps I'm underestimating people's desires to chase after and fight over stupid things.
Also, "my great-granddaughter filled a water bucket" isn't too interesting
Agreed, although "The high-value thing she did most often was fill water buckets" would be.
but "my great-granddaughter planted 23 seeds, created 20 tilled rows, and watered 15 seeds" is interesting imo.
I disagree. The more data you provide about a person, the less interesting it is. That's why I would keep it small and simple as per my examples above.
Along those lines, then, I wouldn't use a visible scoring system. But I might assign some kind of weighting to all of the item transitions, ranking them not by importance or value but rather by interestingness. "How much do I want to know that my great-granddaughter filled a water bucket? How much do I want to know that she dug a well? Built a water pump?"
In general, the most interesting things will be those with more steps to build, higher technology, more importance to the survival of the settlement, greater rarity, or stronger aesthetic value. Those are mostly subjective evaluations, of course, but I would trust Jason's instincts if he wanted to give it a shot.
Then armed with that kind of information, perhaps the lineage page could report two things - the most interesting thing that a person made, and the most interesting thing that a person made in quantity. So for example: "Marcus Bookman skinned rabbits and killed a bear." "Theresa Solis planted wheat and built two water pumps."
By looking down through a lineage you'd be able to get a sense of how advanced a settlement has gotten by seeing the "most interesting" things made by each person in each generation. And I feel like that's something we're all desperate to know. "Did I have an impact? Did my descendants build on what I left them? How far did they get?"
I think when a settlement starts getting crowded, the players who are paying attention to things like that need to step up and start fixing that.
Whatever task you end up doing (because nobody else is doing it), own it, and start fixing the space issues while you're getting the work itself done. If some other function is crowding you, either relocate yourself (and ask for help doing it!) or offer to help them relocate. It's easy to relocate most things, because most things are being done by people who aren't paying attention, aren't focused, and aren't trying to own it. So if it moves out from underneath them, they'll either switch to doing something else, or they'll say "where's the wheat?" and you can tell them "west" and they'll just go along with it.
I think the good players need to get used to reorganizing the town, because Eve camps are going to just barely be planned enough to get by. Startup is hard, and planning where everything is going to go is pretty far down the priority list for an Eve with two babies and no bowls.