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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#51 Re: Main Forum » It appears Jason has ran out of ideas » 2020-01-12 18:47:03

Wuatduhf wrote:

Also, in my own opinion (and for selfish reasons because I'm also using it), I think Jason should be able to sit down and spend time cleaning up the OHOL engine, and improving the OneLifeEditor.

There's a whoooole lot of stuff boot-strapped in the code to get certain features of the game working. He's literally adding tags of &SpeechIn or +flight or Alcohol into the NAMES of objects, for pete's sake!

That's like trying to reinforce the foundations of a house with Balsa wood. That might do the job in the immediate sense, but it's not a good long-term solution. I think he knows that, but has to do it because of time constraints. Which ties me back to my argument above, Jason should give himself time to improve the Engine+Editor.

I know that feeling. I’m a programmer, and I’m also working on a big project, one year and a half working on it, and sometimes I spend a week just cleaning the code, organizing stuff, renaming variables/functions and whatnot. That helps a lot to increase the speed of future bug fixings and content creation. So I agree he should give a time to do that, we wouldn’t receive new content, but his work will be easier on the next updates.

#52 Re: Main Forum » What Might a Water Griefer Do? » 2020-01-11 16:19:46

DestinyCall is right, there are a lot of new players and if they read that, they might learn how to grief, so I deleted what I posted.

#54 Re: Main Forum » It appears Jason has ran out of ideas » 2020-01-11 15:51:18

I liked it though, principally the bottle part. It will help a lot the organization, consuming less space and will help the mass production of some items/materials that can be used later. Having a bottle of sugar is much better than a bunch of bowls of sugar on the ground. Also I noticed that now we can put sand bowls in a cart or even sand in a bottle (I would like to be able to put bread on a table though). I’ve never made glass bottles, but now I’m attempted to do so. Next time I play the game and be born as black or in a multicultural town/with desert materials, I’ll try to make some bottles.

#55 Re: Main Forum » Character emoji » 2020-01-10 22:41:22

Eve gay makes happy face lol

#56 Re: Main Forum » Lineages Might Last Longer If Killing Was Impossible/Pesistent IDs » 2020-01-10 14:41:01

Whatever wrote:

Yes, high death by killer percentage is and indication for grief.

You can see the first stats from SMITHY HEAVEN are very different to the other 3 stats.
SMITHY HEAVEN has played 1000 hours and only has a 5.64% death by killer,
the other three have played much less, started playing 1 month ago and have over 30% death by killer.
Also their kills are around 50% which is high.

I dont think SMITHY HEAVEN is a heavy griefer but the other 3 definitely are

That's also a thing, we have heavy griefers and people who are griefing just a town for a specific reason.
Smithy Heaven didn't do anything wrong until his 30-something, when I saw he building and adobe wall next to a maple tree, then he brought a water bucket and a bowl and wasted it all on the wall, he went back to town and I stole the bowl on the floor. I told that to my daughter and could use the ORDER system to warn my followers. Three people followed me, and everyone saw he bringing a full water bucket and then he ran a lot. He died after my death, because when I was born there, he was running to hide his body behind a tree after someone stabbed him. He probably had a reason, may be didn't like the town, someone pissed him or whatnot. Smithy started griefing when he was old around 37 years, while the others were griefing since they were 3 or as soon as they could get a weapon.

#57 Re: Main Forum » The Future Of Realistic Society » 2020-01-10 01:02:58

DestinyCall wrote:

You could try starting a card-based economy in your next town, Villas.   Everything has to start somewhere.   Be the change you want to see in the world.

Playcards are kind of too easy to make. If I’m not mistaken 1 paper = 52 cards, if it’s true, it’s possible to make 1.000 cards in 20 minutes. Anyway if I play tomorrow I’m gonna try just for fun, I’ll make a property fence and start a workshop selling things for cards, probably sell crowns and seal skin shirts.

#58 Re: Main Forum » Property is a search engine for physical items » 2020-01-09 23:28:45

Dodge wrote:

As opposed to a scenario where the food belongs to everyone and is free to take but also means that it is not yours so in case there is less of it you might die if someone else takes it.

But currently this doesn't exist in the game for multiple reasons :

Easy survival without shelter

Incentive not big enough to care for your close family (members who count for genetic score and not entire lineage)

Overabundance of food

That's part of the reason why properties are not a thing in the game currently.

Ideally there would be instances where its "your group or them" and not having a private property with belongings and a house means your group has a lower chance of survival and ultimately ends up dying and lowering your score compared to the other group with a property that would survive and have their score increase.

That makes sense, although people don't react exactly like that.
I remember the rift when we had several mass starvation, we made property fences to protect against other families, but when food ran low, we started to kill each other. My daughter killed me because I was too old and we didn't had much food. Another time I was killed because I had three daughters and fed them while a group of people were yelling we could only raise 2 babies per mother.
Strangely enough, people would rather stop the population growth or even lower it instead of using private property. So I think we need something else, dunno what.

DestinyCall wrote:

He is probably talking about the whole "one hour" thing.   Since the idea is that you move on to a new life in a new village and rarely return to the same place again, there is little value in accumulating wealth beyond what you can personally use in a single lifetime.   One hour isn't very long.   Building a house takes a long time.   Making your own tools takes a long time.   Raising your own sheep, growing your own wheat, and baking your own pies also takes time.   

Private property is tricky because it limits access to valuable tools and resources and impedes free movement.  Time is precious in OHOL.   Dealing with the additional barriers imposed by personal property slows down or even halts important work.   If the village only has two buckets, we can't afford everyone keeping their buckets in private areas.   Most people won't have any access to buckets and won't be able to complete any bucket-related jobs.

Private property encourages a lot of redundancy.  Everyone would need a set of basic tools and storage options.   Everyone would need a supply of water and compost in their personal space to allow farming-related jobs.    The game does not support this level of fragmentation.   It wastes too much time and requires too much extra work.

It might be possible if we had access to cheap stone tools and more options for renewable water sources.  But currently, it is too time-consuming to set-up a dozen mini-villages so everyone can have their own hoe and bucket and horse and sheep.

Unless we create a sort of currency, let's suppose I'm really good at making carts, I could buy ropes from a milkweed farmer and chop trees, then start my mass production of carts, then I could trade them for some gold coins and buy pies. I don't need sheeps, compost, water, wheat and whatnot. I just need a saw, froe and an axe, and then I can produce, carts, buckets, shelves for the whole town and receive some gold coins or even items such as clothes, food, etc...
My kids can inherit that and keep my work or sell the property for some gold and do something else, this way we wouldn't have that much redundancy and it would be waaay funnier than making a cart for free for someone take it and lose in the wild, at least I would receive money for that, then the person can do whatever they want and could hire helpers with the money with a salary like 5 gold coins each five years or whatever.

I know I'm just dreaming, and the game is far from that. Just saying capitalism is more interesting/rewarding than communism, and we don't need to be redundant. IRL I'm a programmer and when I want a pie, either I buy the ingredients or a pie made by someone else, I just need to do what I am good at (and what people are disposed to pay for, what people actually need).
I agree that if everyone has to make a mini village inside property fences, it would be a mass. The only way around that is have currency or at least a kind of trade working. I like currencies because they encourage trading, gives an insight inside each person.

#59 Re: Main Forum » Pyres, a proposed method to control eve spawns. » 2020-01-09 23:03:17

I like it! I think this pyre is very easy to make though, In a early camp with an steel axe (80 years old village), it's possible to collect those items within 20 minutes, so it has to be way harder, like a Bell Tower/Apocalypse Tower.

#60 Re: Main Forum » Suggestion: Breakage / Spoilage of Primitive & Raw Food Items » 2020-01-09 22:47:46

I love the idea because I'm very used to play this game, and I really like those challenges, like when the Temperature Update was implemented and people swore even Jason's grandmother. It would encourage the construction of buildings and whatnot. We could have a big storage to store large amounts of meat, like put fifty meat pieces in a container with salt to preserve it and use rotten food for composting (When I was at university we used to throw rotten/rest of food in a big container and then put dry leafs above it, after some time, I don't know how much, it turned into compost and people used it to farm some organic products).

Although I think other people would hate it because the game would be harder, families never being eternal, noobs can't handle it, griefers exploiting and blablabla.

#61 Re: Main Forum » Lineages Might Last Longer If Killing Was Impossible/Pesistent IDs » 2020-01-09 22:13:48

Cantface wrote:

Migrating ALL THE TIME is just NOT manageable and you should know that Spoon. If killing was gone we'd be absolutely screwed because one griefer without any way to take them out can and will destroy a timeline. Imagine towns with multiple griefers doing their thing all over the map with NO WAY to stop them. Even if you move you'll give birth to a griefer or your children will or one could discover you easy and you want us to just keep running? A horrid game of cat and mouse forever?
Hell no please and thank you!

Exactly, I won't abandon my town and my family because of a griefer, I will kill and curse him no matter what. Migrating in fun sometimes, but not every life. And I'm not a mice, I'm a lion, the griefers have to run away from me, not the opposite. I spent my last life building the biggest building I've ever made, made with stone and even the floor had some cut stones on it and cousin took the horse cart and all rubber we had and ran away. She came back years later with empty horse trying to take a shovel, I quickly took the horse and put it far east, when I came back people were chasing her, since everyone were aware of what she had done.
If someone goes to a neighborhood and starts to mess with people, breaking stuff, stealing, locking, hiding things or even disturbing people that person will die or be jailed, I doubt the entire town will run away and migrate to another place.

The major problem with griefers isn't even killing. Of course killing is bad, but when they kill we CAN kill the griefer and heal the victims, the problem is that we DON'T do that, people don't give a shit for grievers, let them be and they kill one by one. But the biggest issue is that they can hide things faraway, waste all water on adobe walls or even hiding full water buckets, break tools, lock buildings. I won't abandon the building I spent almost an hour making, because someone decided to mess with my family, when the resources ran out it's ok, but we had a new comen and a lot of rubber that Twisted brought to us while streaming today, I wont migrate because a person decided to steal everything. I want to be able to kill them, if I can't kill them then the only option is migrating or just stop playing because it wouldn't be funny at all have to run for griefers instead of defeating them.

#62 Re: Main Forum » The Future Of Realistic Society » 2020-01-09 20:44:26

Twisted posted a video (very funny) in a town where people tried to turn cards into currency and I loved it.
I hope after watching the video, people start mimicking them and build some shops and cards, then maybe Jason thinks about adding golden coins and purses.

Check the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UdlWCFODIQ

#63 Re: Main Forum » Lineages Might Last Longer If Killing Was Impossible/Pesistent IDs » 2020-01-09 17:40:53

If killing is impossible, what do we do when our cousin Smithy Heaven (http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5768370) builds an adobe wall far from town and starts to waste all the town’s water on that wall? Or if Bobby Heaven (http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5768348) breaks the ovens and forges and hides bellows, plenty of tools, buckets, pies God knows where with an upgraded horse cart? It actually happened yesterday, but I was a countess, exiled them and gave an order, a lot of people targeted them at the same time and even with the horse they couldn’t escape. In that town we had lot of pads and aprons, I taught my daughters the medical way and we healed some people that life (people were fighting because of crowns), they followed me because of that and for my pie deliveries.

So will lineages last longer if the griefers can’t be killed? I know that that person would receive some curses, but they can be born in another town and grief for another whole hour without being stopped. Imagine thieves from another family, stealing every single thing knowing they can’t be stopped.

Believe or not, I don’t think the problem is killing, but not killing. Griefers kill a lot and that’s bad, but new players or I don’t know, kind people, are afraid of killing for some reason, so they let the griefer alive and let the task of killing the griefer to another person, and then that griefer kill again and again and again until the lineage is vanished. At least from my perspective, it’s what is happening, generally I have to deal with them, because everyone, but veterans, is afraid of having bloody hands. I have a lot of examples.

Yesterday I was born in a town, my mother Mya Bytheway (http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5768675) had a bloody bow and shot the last girl (actually I was the last girl, she thought I would starve), but suddenly an old man from another family fed me and my uncle stabbed her. I stayed alive, no one cursed her and I was a baby. Before she died, she said she killed 6 families that day. Indeed, she almost killed ours, but someone killed her and I think that guy was a veteran because he was very skilled. My mother was killing everyone before I was born, we had pads and weapons, no one killed her neither healed the victims until my uncle came, if it wasn’t him, the family would be gone forever.
I had four daughters and forgot to curse my mother, I’m sure she came back as Jessica Bytheway. Jessica shot her sister, I didn’t have a knife, but two choices: kill Jessica before the cooldown ends or try to find a knife and heal my daughter letting Jessica escape. I chose kill Jessica, since I knew my other daughter Salvatora took the only knife available, Salvatora came, I said “heal Athena!”, but Salvatora simply left and kept working on the sheep pen, I think she didn’t even know what was happening, If I haven’t killed Jessica, I’m sure Salvatora would be the next victim. Our family lived for 10 more generations (descendants of Salvatora’s). If she had healed Athena, we could’ve lived longer.

4lbKbsq.jpg

But if anyone had killed and cursed Mya after she shot the first fertile girl, none of that would happen, also people could have saved every victim, since we had loads of pads.
We can make killing innocents “impossible” if we heal them, while letting the griefers die. But what happens is that no one heals, no one kills the griefer and the griefer ends up killing everyone. I witnessed more family extinctions that I would like to.

In another life Curstin Max (http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5740238) was causing problems since she was a baby, she took a bow as soon as she could, I was too old to chase her and when I tried to kill her, her mother told me to stop even after I explained everything, I told her sisters to kill her, gave them knives. As soon as I died of old age, Curstin came back to town and killed her mother, her siblings and her children, she literally killed the family since her babies were the last generation to live (78), I cursed her and she cursed me, I couldn’t go back there anyway.

If people had joined me and killed her, none of that would happen, also we had pads in town (two bowls), they didn’t heal each other and ended up dying.Curstin left the town because she knew I was the only one disposed to have bloody hands there, I would heal her victim (since I had knife, pads and thread in my inventory) and quickly kill her, while others weren’t giving a shit.

Again, if people healed innocent and helped kill the griefer, the family would last much longer.
Trust the hardworking people, I always trust the ones I see working hard, between me (an old woman who worked her whole life) and a quiet ten years old with a bow, trust the old woman. I use that tactic, and as far as I’m concerned I always trust the right people.

As you can see, from my perspective the problem is: people aren’t killing griefers while griefers are killing everyone. Also we have loads of pads while no one heals. If one single person kill the griefer while the murder is slow and curse them, while another one heal the victim, problem solved, the griefer is gone at least until the one who curses them is alive. 
People, don’t be afraid of having bloody hands if it’s for a good cause (since it’s the only way to deal with crimes, we can’t jail nor sue criminals), don’t let griefers alive, join the ones disposed to kill them and always heal victim and curse the griefer. Trust hardworking people, don’t trust that teenager who was never even watered a single berry bush.

#64 Re: Main Forum » Property is a search engine for physical items » 2020-01-08 17:02:18

Gogo wrote:
pein wrote:

some people could make more than the whole city of newbies and property for her and her kids make kinda sense but life is too short and eventually properties end up in wrong hands, hoarders just steal stuff and lock it away and the family dies

Enough curses will cause griefer to lost ownership, problem solved.

I agree that curses could work, although enough thieves could steal property as well, principally in multi-race towns where race wars happen or just a bunch of trolls on discord could massive curse to steal property each hour.

#65 Re: Main Forum » To my griefer daughter, Tamila Moon. Not so missed connection! » 2020-01-07 03:12:42

Cantface wrote:

I understand you, I tend to be less trigger happy now because these situations can get out of hand really fast. You can be painted the villain really easily, it's so feckin common a tactic for griefers to lie, decieve and manipulate others into wars and murders and yet it's hard to take them out if they have any kind of following or family that they've poisoned against you. These are the WORST places to be, if it gets bad I either leave and try to relocate or leave and make a bow and arrow in the far wilds and try to get revenge on whoever it is that's causing trouble. I remember coming back to town as an old white woman, new bow in hand and killing a younger but aging ginger guy,(a killer) who by the the time I returned had killed literally everyone in town. It was such an empty victory that he even jabbed at me like "Enjoy the empty town" It still felt good to avenge my family in the end.

Sometimes though the town will work together to fight the chaos and to people's credit there are some really great players out there that try to balance out the shitty and the good.

It reminds me that griefer http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5740238
I named her “Curstin” (I said “you are curse”) because I knew she was a problem from last life, killed people because of a crown, her mother didn’t believe me, the girl didn’t had a name and when I went to name her, she ran and said “F U”, I was sure she was the griefer. I tried to kill her, but her mother was like “WTF, she’s just a baby” “Can’t even talk, imagine killing”, there was nothing I could do to convince them.

I died and an hour later I checked the family tree, the girl literally wiped her town and murdered even her mother and newborns.

Baby griefers are terrible, when we pick on them because we know they are griefers, people tend to believe we are the bad ones.

#66 Re: Main Forum » To my griefer daughter, Tamila Moon. Not so missed connection! » 2020-01-06 23:11:36

testo wrote:

In all honesty a baby that says FU should be killed asap. Last time I had  a girl that started calling everyone names. I asked what was wrong and she said die. I kid you not: I stabbed her twice, but alas, stupid SJW in this game saved her and ended up stabbing me even when I publicly warned everyone what was happening. Bottomline to all the assholes that stab as soon as they see someone killing a baby: Get a clue about what is happening, most of the times the mom is the one that actually knows what is happening. A griefer wouldn´t even care about raising children anyways.

That's true, but I gave up on killing babies when I was sent to donkey town months ago for killing my baby who said "I" "W" "I" "L" "L" "K" "I" "L" "L" "U", I ran south to starve the little ass, but he ran north again, I  said to don't feed the baby, but people thought I was griefing, It's weird to kill a baby or convince people the baby said something, I stabbed him and the whole town cursed me. I had to waste 1 hour in donkey town because of that.

#67 Re: Main Forum » Language Barriers » 2020-01-06 20:32:18

Spoonwood wrote:

If close enough to the town, yes.  There exist other springs which are just dry.  Basically, the inner ring dry springs have stakes.  But, the outer ring dry springs don't have stakes or directional words (or I'm blind).

No man, I just checked it. As I said:

Villas wrote:

So if you see a dry spring, it means there is a town/village nearby you, the best part is that springs lined horizontally or vertically with the well have stakes pointing to the direction where the well was built.

All springs aligned vertically or horizontally with the well (the well that dried them) will have a stake, only those that are not aligned vertically or horizontally with the well that dried them won't have stakes.

It means, 4 Springs North, South, West and East will have stakes while the others won't (in a 9x9 grid if I'm not mistaken), If the 5th spring aligned with a well is dry, it means another well dried it, so it may or may not have stakes, it will depend if they are aligned with the well that dried them or not. That information is very useful for finding towns.

wondible wrote:

Except with the current bug/situation where old towns are South and new towns are North.

Oh, I didn't know that, I'll pay attention next time.

#68 Re: Main Forum » Language Barriers » 2020-01-06 17:59:52

Spoonwood wrote:
Villas wrote:

  So if you see a dry spring, it means there is a town/village nearby you, the best part is that springs lined horizontally or vertically with the well have stakes pointing to the direction where the well was built.

If close enough to the town, yes.  There exist other springs which are just dry.  Basically, the inner ring dry springs have stakes.  But, the outer ring dry springs don't have stakes or directional words (or I'm blind).

Also, since the player is new, I'll mention that horses need to get moved from a desert first at bare minimum (unless someone has moved them) before they can get tamed and ridden.  This can only get done by blacks at present.

A game that more or less encourages experienced players to suicide to a particular race sounds like it has game design flaws to me.

Also, rubber balls require blacks and browns to acquire the appropriate resources to make, since palm oil comes from a jungle, latex comes from rubber trees in a jungle, and sulfur comes from hot springs in a desert.

Finally, since I believe it doubtful that the original poster knows this especially, race restrictions only happen when a server has 15 or more people on it.  The player can choose their server by clicking on the 'settings' tab, then checking the 'custom server', and putting in a name like 'server12.onehouronelife.com'.  The complete list of public servers that Jason hosts can get found here: http://onehouronelife.com/reflector/ser … ion=report  Many players have used servers other than the main ones (currently server1 and bigserver2) to learn how to do oil rigs and diesel engines in the past, in part due to their complexity and their cost also. 

Servers 2-15 don't seem likely to have more than 14 people on them at present.  Thus, learning how to do things there has had its uses (and arguably abuses also).  However, it strikes myself and probably some other experienced players somewhat strange to think that we should recommend new players go to a custom server to learn how to do a charcoal pump.


Yeh yeh yeh yeh, I'm giving him tips, of course if he doesnt have rubber ball, he wont use, if he doesnt have horse, he goes on foot and etc. Towns live longer than families, so a multicultural town that had a lot of families might only have one now, although they still have rubber balls, horse and etc.

The guy is dissapointed because he spent hours to find a single family, so I'm telling him how I do to find it quicker and if he has better tools like horses, even quicker. I'm living rn in a ginger town with horses and two rubber balls, so that's not impossible.

#70 Re: Main Forum » Question about kill mode speed » 2020-01-06 16:27:51

testo wrote:
Villas wrote:

Well, I’ve never seen or heard of that. People can target saying “I join you” “I will kill griefer name” or targeting you with a weapon without saying anything. What may have happened is that you were laagy.

In the first case the person warned me before hand (She killed me because I didn´t want to give her my thread kek) so I was very far away and even under a lot of lag I shouldn´t have been hit (no joins anywhere).

In the second case the posse went up instantly from three or four players again, with no formal speech from other players.

Welp, that’s weird. I hope they are not cheating.

#71 Re: Main Forum » Language Barriers » 2020-01-06 16:09:57

If you have a horse, finding villages is very easy and quick.
Old towns are at East, new towns are at West.

Springs are those places where we can build wells. Once we build it, springs around become dry. So if you see a dry spring, it means there is a town/village nearby you, the best part is that springs lined horizontally or vertically with the well have stakes pointing to the direction where the well was built. So if you get a horse and follow the spring lines, you might be able to find those springs that points to the well.

I was able to find more than 10 towns in 30 years ridding a horse, just following the springs, I brought a chisel, mallet, shovel and map in order to make way stones in those towns leading to my town.

To break the language barrier you just need a paper, pencil and rubber ball, things written in a paper are understandable for all races, and you can erase them with rubber ball. Or you can just make maps written “My town need you” or something like that, once the person read the map, they’ll understand what’s written and will get a home marker leading to your town.

#72 Re: Main Forum » Question about kill mode speed » 2020-01-06 15:56:46

Well, I’ve never seen or heard of that. People can target saying “I join you” “I will kill griefer name” or targeting you with a weapon without saying anything. What may have happened is that you were laagy.

#73 Re: Main Forum » Can we get an auto-lock on old threads on the forums? » 2020-01-06 15:43:02

FulmenTheFinn wrote:

Having an auto-lock system is probably not even possible with the ~20 year old framework this forum runs on, considering it lacks even basic 2000s forum functionality like buttons for BBCode commands, or multi-quoting. I reckon it'd need to be updated first, which is an undertaking in of itself, and one Jason probably won't do.

Haha that’s true. I like it though, reminds me my childhood when I discovered forums for the very first time, Mu Online forums... good times.

#74 Re: Main Forum » Can we get an auto-lock on old threads on the forums? » 2020-01-06 00:07:08

Punkypal you’re talking about yourself, right?
You necroed a post from 2018 some days ago, just to say:

Punkypal wrote:

BOOM! New Year's Eve necro (I couldn't resist). But seriously, plenty of things have been added in the last year. Any items that are worse than these already listed?
Some would say this item is almost useless: https://bit.ly/2QcIrOr
LOL

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3492

I even spent five minutes of my life reading the comments and almost answered a guy who said that marked graves can’t be removed and then I realized it was a necro post from more than a year ago. I reported you, but nothing happened actually. I think we need more people reporting or more active modes. I admit I felt a little bit frustrated after realizing I wasted my time because of a “TROLL LOL”, I remember when Whatever got banned for necroing posts some months ago, they should do that to anyone who necros just to troll people and don’t add anything relevant that worthed more necroing than creating a new topic linking to an old one.

Edit: I also think that some of Spoonwood necro posts are okay ( I didn’t read all of them), at least the ones I read weren’t trolls, he really added something interesting. Although linking old posts in a new one seems more reasonable.

#75 Re: Main Forum » Instead of slash die.. » 2020-01-04 22:47:40

I hope we can have pregnancy in this game. So if the mom is pregnant she wouldn’t go far from town or if they are far from town they can go back and be ready for the baby, also the baby could /die in this stage of life and know the town a little better, may be feel more connected to the mother and vice-versa.

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