a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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This isn't about one village surviving.
This is about how long you can ALL survive in there, in villages that never get culled. It's about a long, server-wide arc. Playing the game in two days will be VERY different than playing the game tomorrow.
The apocalypse condition is this:
--No baby lives past age 15 for one solid hour.
I.e., everyone is starving to death, and there's no viable village left. You will experience exactly one hour of that. Then the world resets back to nature.
I imagine the above apocalypse trigger condition will only happen when you run out of oil or iron. My bet is that oil will run out first.
Do you remember how "which food you eat" doesn't really matter, and berry munching is just as good as some way more efficient food, because resources were effectively infinite? Not anymore.
Or of course if you mess everything up in some other way that I haven't thought of yet (burn all fertile soil with no compost piles around, so you can't grow ingredients for compost anymore).
I'm hoping that the initial arc will be 3-5 days long. Do you really think you'll all starve to death in 500x500 before 48 hours? Or do you think you'll just have a massive war right away?
If you can predict exactly what will happen.... well.... you're way more prescient than I am!
I think a king of the hill scenario is the most likely outcome. Scarcity usually does promote violence.
I think though, it's possible people will band up in small groups and survive in very small self sustainable forts like what pein is experimenting with - a small homestead. And I expect them to push out or murder excess children - infanticide is an actual thing in really desperate times.
Also what if the issue that everyone can basically go back to where they died the next life and continue? I thought that was one of your tenets.
RodneyC86 wrote:testo wrote:Yeah 500 square tiles sound ridiculous for 100 players. Even 2000 seems limited to me but who knows...
500 x 500 - is still a quarter million tiles though. That's 2,500 tiles per player. or a 50 x 50 grid, size of a really big town. Maybe not so bad?
As some might get funny ideas here - I agree with pein that property fences needs to be destroyable in some way. Not too easy a way since it would be undermined - but some way.
Edit: think pein mentioned the property fence issue in another thread
i mean you got 7 biome types
seems to be equal proprtion, just a bit of random on the positionsbut in average case it's equal
that means only 4 out of 7 bioems are liveable cause of temperature
only 4/7 have sprigns on ithttps://i.imgur.com/2loRxnQ.png
wondible made this picture
just take a look, grey is the swamp, i only see 5 decent green biomes
and only one with swamp near itnow it's decent to boom in a swamp then move, or try out other types
but any type f griefing is bad long term, i mean i don't even plan to play real cause it will just frustrate me
fences are broken
he modelled after rust twigs, which is just a frame in rust, but there they are easily broken
if it would be slow to get trough but upgradeable then people would need to take care of it, and that would make it betteri remember i spent 2 hours in a fenced town and even tho it was only one exit, people fixed every wall so you had to go around all the time
That's disgusting! Feeling like sitting this update out already
i mean that was in my mind, i already had a life where some black guy was feeding us at start but then when all noobs died and we finally made tools and pen was going a black chick just came in and stab the last girl
with limited iron and fight for resources, you just cant leave tools out in the open
i don't think people will share resources, last time i was on mdidle of the map, the chaos of not understanding each other, and all those idiot kids from other parents, you cant advance in society if you don't limit the populationin such small map, people can group based on friend groups on corners, if you say you are top right, anyone can find it going up and right
this kind of fortress can ac as defense and offense vs others
i wouldn't focus on too man towns, it's unlikely that too many of them will survive
maybe you can do 2 towns and kill the others around you, but they will spawn to you and might grief you from inside
so better have a tactic, a setup, a theme, that will keep people fighting for your sidei for one would not care about birth rights, more for workers of any kind, but it's hard to keep it for long with too many females and too little work done
I for one, worry about marauders who basically dont settle and just roam the small map in a 'patrol' route and just feed off the settlers. This would probably be a very viable survival strategy in the mini map meta - a family of travelling marauders.
Looks like this game will be doing a full 180 on what this game is supposed to become. I am VERY concerned. Because I don't see how a 500x500 map will cater to a longer term game when tech tree gets deeper - if it ever will.
Now that the map will be super tiny , what do you think the utility of the SSFF would be?
Also if I begged real hard at your doorstep can I gget refuge? Things look like it will get messy quite fast
Not sure why you think all property fence owners are sociopathic OP - that's a very big leap to make to jump to a conclusion. By that definition everyone in real life is a sociopath.
In game, private property as it stands is just too clunky to use for practical applications. A window/counter for passing objects through but not allowing players to pass can facilitate having a warehouse to keep things safe - though a trustworthy players must be running it.
JKHowling mentioned pads/needles/thread. These can be stored in a very small property area for safety - but again, you need a trusted medic and have him get an apprectice to take over his role in next generations.
Seth actually brought up an interesting point - which is that exactly your toon in game doesn't really need a private place to unwind and relax, or to get safety - or to sleep -OHOL characters don't sleep! There goes the need for shelters and protection. Not sure how this is ever fixable though. I think maybe...? Jason got it wrong when he made property fences just a way to own things. Property should be first a private area for other reasons first maybe?
Yeah 500 square tiles sound ridiculous for 100 players. Even 2000 seems limited to me but who knows...
500 x 500 - is still a quarter million tiles though. That's 2,500 tiles per player. or a 50 x 50 grid, size of a really big town. Maybe not so bad?
As some might get funny ideas here - I agree with pein that property fences needs to be destroyable in some way. Not too easy a way since it would be undermined - but some way.
Edit: think pein mentioned the property fence issue in another thread
Maybe I'm giving myself too much credit, but what Jason is about to do is eerily similar to what I suggested previously regarding a very limited map with finite resources and world auto resetting if world becomes too harsh for people to live beyond a certain age
Thisis a radical change though, I can see a lot of close range tussles. I mean, finite is nice but 500 tiles seems miniscule?
testo wrote:Just to add to what Morti said, it´s really easy to gear up while you are gathering outside. Reed skirt is amazing early on if you can find enough rope, sealskin is amazing even if not sewed and wheat hats are also amazing. When I get into early camps that have few things around (like one 3x3 berry farm and some carrots and fire) I just pick up a needle and move ouside town to gather rope and gear up. You don´t even need snares, you can make them on the way, hunt rabbits, make a backback and come back with the rabbits. Maybe just forget about the bp and go straight to hunt for iron if there is no iron in town. Farming is not always a priority.
Spending half of your life outside of town just sounds odd, especially how you probably need to start your own fires out of town to cook rabbit to get a needle to sew clothes.
You're supposed to bring a needle with you
Not gonna argue against your complain, it´s a dick move. However, bear countermesures are pretty easy:
a) Stand over an object. Bears can´t attack you if you are standing over an object.
b) Make bow and arrows. Kill bear. (Kill griefer but curse him first)
Just make sure it's not something that can decay though
RodneyC86 wrote:Really though guys we need to stop feeding this troll
His posts follow a patternRoads
Bells
Only I am responsible enough with knives
Roads
Bells
Bears
Roads
Roads now with added chisel and stake spam
Bells
Roads
DIE
And finally bearsEveryone else minding their own business are basically idiots to him while he hoards flat stones and chisels building 2k roads for Jason knows what reasons. God forbid if you happen to be in the wrong spot at the wrong time. Because bears.
I do admit it's hard to ignore this level of sheer moronism, it's like a train wreck you can't look away
I tried to stop repying his threads but some part of me says "hey if he needs feeding he must be lonely". So I try to just post some nonsense to throw him a bone here and there. *Sigh...* I have become such a softie these days.
Hey, I always say, it takes courage to be nice. Being cynical and hateful is the easy way out. Something i'm guilty of often to be sure
RodneyC86 wrote:At the end of the day though, OHOL is virtual life, no one cares I guess
That's cute and all but no
Also, just because someone in the village doesn't actually affect your score doesn't mean it's wise to eliminate them.it is almost always better to have higher productivity with more workers. Also, any drama can lower the score easily. People who like to call it totally random are probably drama magnets.
I mean yes, we all will run into an unfortunate massacre some time but that applies to all of us
Me thinks the score needs to be scaled differently. Make it less swingy and any score less than 25 or something actually gives no benefit and above 40 full benefit. Thrown in some other perk maybe even, like fertility or for guys an odd chance to actually counter parry a weapon attack and kill the attacker instead
i don't care about genetic fitness
what does it even do?
I assume you know but you're just joking.
Well, it let me work effectively till I poop over instead of staying by a fire munching berries for one..
It's marginal, but it's something
At the end of the day though, OHOL is virtual life, no one cares I guess
I was cartmaker once. All the rope gathered from the wild. Made 12 carts before I finally kicked the bucket. Yeah I wasn't the speediest explorer and it was before I knew about mods. But it was awesome to receive a hero's welcome on my return and completing the 12 carts next to the smithy
testo wrote:RodneyC86 wrote:Calm your tits. I don't kill people asking for bags. But I certainly would feel very concerned. Also, there's a group of toxic players who will remember you not giving them a bag and will say you don't love them. At that point I would just be glad they don't decide to murder me as I am working in the farm. Yes , asses like that exists
It all comes down to Rodneys point, I´m not saying I love to stab babies or that I kill a baby as soon as he starts poking clothing/bp. I´m saying there is enough evidence to justify killing strongly obnoxious babies, because they end up being troublemakers. I have enough experience with demanding babies to understand that:
a) Good players don´t poke stuff in a demanding way
b) Decent players may poke stuff once or twice and not again if said no
c) Persistent and demanding players are not an asset even if given the stuff they want and worst they end up backstabbing you and the town.So yes, based in my experience there is justification for killing babies in this game.
A babies life is super boring and some babies do run around or spam poke something. Does this mean they grow up to be bad people? for me its most likely no. The only time i wouldn't stand up to a baby murder is if the baby is spamming whistle and sick emotes and even then i would probably tolerate.
What a player does during baby stage is telling of their character though, IMO, to an extent. As a child I'm mroe interested in observing the dynamics in the village and looking at what is lying around and see what I can help make during my lifetime. Where's our weak link. Where the village needs me when I am ready... Bonus points for child who can say F when hungry - not so good if baby doesn't ever say anything but maybe just a player who trusts you anyway.
A spam poking emoting baby is probably not preparing for that... 'probably' being the key word here - someone could be spamming these while actually looking around but I won't count on it.
TLDR - baby behaviour can be quite telling of how they turn out later on
Really though guys we need to stop feeding this troll
His posts follow a pattern
Roads
Bells
Only I am responsible enough with knives
Roads
Bells
Bears
Roads
Roads now with added chisel and stake spam
Bells
Roads
DIE
And finally bears
Everyone else minding their own business are basically idiots to him while he hoards flat stones and chisels building 2k roads for Jason knows what reasons. God forbid if you happen to be in the wrong spot at the wrong time. Because bears.
I do admit it's hard to ignore this level of sheer moronism, it's like a train wreck you can't look away
RodneyC86 wrote:I don't think a karma system with visible marks will considered by J .
Come on Jason, you want rich dynamics right? I hardly call relationships between two villagers only being one of three states (Friends, Neutral, Killdeathmode) a rich dynamic
Where's the annoyance? Where's the fistfights? Grabbing by each other throat and wrestling for scarce food or disagreement on where to go with limited iron? But through it all maybe they can still de-escalate by bystanders and find reconciliation later? Those always make good stories.
Right now, if someone rubs you the wrong way, only next option after telling them off is stab them, and if you do decide to tell them off before you escalate to stabbing, you better not get stabbed first since you told them off, and we have hypersensitive jerkasses who think they are infallible.
Put in a proper combat system geezus. As someone above said, it probably shouldn't be skill based but should be political. Right now, one hit kills is not just political at all .paradoxically, when you can end an entity so easily politics collapse and chaos results.
Adding Healthpoints, combat being a bit more protracted and actions of people around you can influence the outcome, is far more interesting than ninja simulator.
If a griefer wants to murder they will actually have to lure person into a remote area no one can hear them scream. Think about it, isn't it weird someone can knife someone so easily around a campfire. In a non dysfunctional group. A scuffle would happen rather than everyone watching helplessly.
I mean you're definitely not wrong about a lot of this.
In the current game there's no reason to be telling someone off unless you're specifically doing it for DRAMA or because you're looking to get yourself stabbed. A one hit kill assassin simulator is not interesting as there's no reasonable escalation in game to want you to actually harm someone.
"Oh Greg moved my hoe so I can either yell at him and hope he doesn't stab me or kill him myself and not get stabbed." Who in their right mindset believes proper escalation in a game would be slight annoyance to straight murdering someone for a bit of an inconvenience. It doesn't make sense from a roleplay perspective or a gameplay perspective to shoot from 0 - 100 instantly.
While combat shouldn't be 100% skill on the flip side it also shouldn't be a 0% skill thing either. All skill makes it where new players are basically slaughtered by those who know the system while no skill makes it where everyone can slaughter. At least in a skilled system there's actually defensive moves available instead of just running until one of the two players starve to death... (which means if you starve sub 30 you can return and attempt to kill the same player again. Big old yikes there.)
I think as far as skill goes it should be about timing your telling off and to at least ensure you are not in the middle of nowhere and have backup from the village folk. Or choosing a better time to tell off a guy with a knife in backpack, like when you can get at least another person to follow you to tell someone off. So if the knife guy gets aggressive it's 2v1 . now it feels like it is almost never a good idea to tell said person off. Even if the backup takes out the guy you are probably dead.
I don't think a karma system with visible marks will considered by J .
Come on Jason, you want rich dynamics right? I hardly call relationships between two villagers only being one of three states (Friends, Neutral, Killdeathmode) a rich dynamic
Where's the annoyance? Where's the fistfights? Grabbing by each other throat and wrestling for scarce food or disagreement on where to go with limited iron? But through it all maybe they can still de-escalate by bystanders and find reconciliation later? Those always make good stories.
Right now, if someone rubs you the wrong way, only next option after telling them off is stab them, and if you do decide to tell them off before you escalate to stabbing, you better not get stabbed first since you told them off, and we have hypersensitive jerkasses who think they are infallible.
Put in a proper combat system geezus. As someone above said, it probably shouldn't be skill based but should be political. Right now, one hit kills is not just political at all .paradoxically, when you can end an entity so easily politics collapse and chaos results.
Adding Healthpoints, combat being a bit more protracted and actions of people around you can influence the outcome, is far more interesting than ninja simulator.
If a griefer wants to murder they will actually have to lure person into a remote area no one can hear them scream. Think about it, isn't it weird someone can knife someone so easily around a campfire. In a non dysfunctional group. A scuffle would happen rather than everyone watching helplessly.
Okay, so what you're saying is I should ask my babies if they want to stay, so that I don't have to deal with the displeasure of having you as a child in one of my lives?
Sounds good to me. Thanks for the tip!
No don't tell him what to do lol
I'd love to see a less lethal combat system such as pushing or punching. Yesterday there was a little boy who came into the kitchen and spent his entire life taking on and off his hat to annoy people. In griefing this is minor since it's just clothes he's not hurting anyone but he's bothering many people for an extended amount of time. This continued till he was around eight till someone stabbed him and then I rushing and held the bowl of pads so no one could heal him. However if we could push him out of the room or do something that is non-leathal that maybe stuns him then that would solve the problem without having to murder a kid.
The cry for non lethal ways to deal with this shit has been asked for so many times I lost count. Living in OHOL now is basically dealing with people who escalate way too quickly just because there's no choice. (Like that meme)
Would be nice to sock these people in the face and give them a black eye that stays for 2 minutes that alert people some shit happened . Gives people a chance to ask what happened as well and not default to stabbing.
So we should dedicade a modded player to "afk" with full zoom out on his guard tower just incase to counter invasion.
https://pics.me.me/guard-doge-at-yor-se … 498577.png
Wow such interesting gameplay
Much skill
Very interactable
Many actionsA life of purpose.
Hey, being on watch is a noble profession okay? Boring, but that's what it is. Not quitting out of boredom is the challenge
RodneyC86 wrote:testo wrote:Dude if someone asks me B-A-G as soon as they are in the game they are expressing themselves. If the same person then proceeds to type "giv-me-bag" when there is only one in sight (the one im wearing), hes going to get stabbed. Same with people poking clothing or bags around, just don´t be entitled people, you are not entitled to anything just becuase it is on screen. Most of the times it is ok to stab a baby like that for the simple reason that they mean trouble. It is not that I don´t like them (thou I hate entitled teens in general) it is they are bad for the town in the long run. There is a good indicator (I had several bad experiences actually being overly generous) on bad babies => bad players.
The real problem behind all this is: any decent player, naked at 4 can gear up in 10 minutes tops. I can guarantee theres 0% chance of a half decent player asking for bp or clothing. There is simple no need to start poking stuff that is not yours to begin with. You get pants? thats nice, you get a seal shirt? cool! They gave you a BP? awesome. Mom gave you nothing... thats ok thank you anyways!
You know what... You are right, the ones that need my help to equip up tends to be more trouble than they are worth - much to my regret and dismay.
This doesn't justify killing people!! Just tell that person no, there's no reason in ending that person life. What are these morals, killing someone just because they are asking an obnoxious question.
Calm your tits. I don't kill people asking for bags. But I certainly would feel very concerned. Also, there's a group of toxic players who will remember you not giving them a bag and will say you don't love them. At that point I would just be glad they don't decide to murder me as I am working in the farm. Yes , asses like that exists
Much as I do agree with Pein, I don't like how the skill in combat comes from some wonky peculiarity in how the server handles a kill command and lag. As a person who played from a country with 250-300 ms lag it is infuriating. I never practiced combat skill but I don't think it takes a genius PVPer to say that sort of latency makes a big difference.
I don't even think the fact that attacks never miss is an issue, it's just that any hit at all is lethal. Even if a rudimentary hitpoints and attack damage system is introduced we will have a game more balanced against griefers.
Like say everyone starts with 20HP as a child, grows 100HP at adulthood, maybe give a small vitality edge to males. This is so we don't have to put up with 4 year olds who can somehow murder an entire village.
Attack damage depends on what you are holding, gender and age , bare fists maybe 4 per hit , limit to one hit per second. Straight shaft 8 per hit, knife 12 per hit, sword maybe even up to 20.
So at minimum it takes 5 seconds of engaged combat (players should be square locked when in combat with another player, ala RuneScape, but players have to stay in combat at least 3 seconds once engaged) , to kill a player in his/her prime . If combat sounds like sticks clashing, swords swishing and fists impacting are added, people can respond and aid
TLDR: Killing shouldn't be a one hit thing, there should be enough time to react by bystanders.
Eh I guess I still like this game, though I haven't played in a month since I found other games to play. I do hope this gets sorted someday..
Legs wrote:This thread is telling me that people make a lot of assumptions about other players that can't do anything or express themselves in any meaningful way. Seems like the consensus here is that murdering babies is fine and you don't really need a reason to do it. Just because you don't like them. There's really no way to know if a baby is good or bad.
If you think they're suspicious you can always watch them and tell them off, that's what moms do. The idea of abandoning or even killing your own kid because you think they might be a troublemaker just doesn't seem right in a game about family.
Dude if someone asks me B-A-G as soon as they are in the game they are expressing themselves. If the same person then proceeds to type "giv-me-bag" when there is only one in sight (the one im wearing), hes going to get stabbed. Same with people poking clothing or bags around, just don´t be entitled people, you are not entitled to anything just becuase it is on screen. Most of the times it is ok to stab a baby like that for the simple reason that they mean trouble. It is not that I don´t like them (thou I hate entitled teens in general) it is they are bad for the town in the long run. There is a good indicator (I had several bad experiences actually being overly generous) on bad babies => bad players.
The real problem behind all this is: any decent player, naked at 4 can gear up in 10 minutes tops. I can guarantee theres 0% chance of a half decent player asking for bp or clothing. There is simple no need to start poking stuff that is not yours to begin with. You get pants? thats nice, you get a seal shirt? cool! They gave you a BP? awesome. Mom gave you nothing... thats ok thank you anyways!
You know what... You are right, the ones that need my help to equip up tends to be more trouble than they are worth - much to my regret and dismay.
I think this is the name Ugly defaults to
At the heart of it though, a game can't equal real life and I think law enforcement mechanics can itself be used to grief. We already have innocents mass cursed after being misdirected by griefers.
Real life - relatively peaceful because life is priceless , not merely precious
Life in a game is more precious yes, but it can never truly be priceless , so long as this is fact, its basically unfixable unless we get a sword art online deal here. Ie. If you die in game you die in real life
Trying to make OHOL model real life is an exercise of making a nerf gun fight having consequences of a real shootout. It can't happen
NB: Not a war sword supporter. To be honest, I have always wished OHOL moved more into the direction of being an "engine building" game ala, factorio, tropico, surviving mars
I would play a server which totally forbids killing, or maybe a server where someone can be 'magically' executed if enough players support the motion - but never outright murder
