Posts by jasonrohrer

jasonrohrer · News

This update deals with one of the last sacred cows left over from historic One Hour One Life design decisions: truly-permanent structures.

There were two player-built items left in the game that could not be moved or destroyed: ancient walls and the bell tower monument. Both of these things were added long ago, before property fences and many other things. They each required ten hours to soak before they became permanent. Ancient walls were originally meant to be discovered when exploring abandoned towns---perhaps the last remnants after everything else had decayed away (back when I was thinking that most things would decay away in time). And the bell tower was meant to be a major community accomplishment along with a navigation beacon between towns, back before there were other navigation aids in the game. If you managed to build the bell tower, which required cooperation across many generations, you would be able to keep it forever.

The problem with permanent structures, of course, is that they are permanent. If they are somehow built in annoying places, they will be annoying forever. The idea was that people had plenty of time to notice the annoyance before permanence set in. The problem is that you might not notice the annoyance until later, especially if the permanent structure is built far away and permanently entombs something that you might really want to access, like an almost-completed End Tower.

So, you can deconstruct both ancient walls and bell towers now. If you care about your bell tower, you can always protect it with property fences. And ancient walls will still appear in ancient towns, but their fragile beauty now be protected with a careful husbandry.

There have also been a bunch of issues fixed with property gates. You can no longer be assigned ownership from great distances, and destroying an in-progress gate now correctly clears ownership status. Finally, in line with the above discussion about permanence, you can no longer build a long string of property gates right next to each other, since these were effectively impenetrable walls as long as you and your heirs remained living. This was being used to work around the intended removeability of property fences that are supposed to work in conjunction with sparse gates.

jasonrohrer · News

Still working through the list of reported issues this week.

The biggest and most time-consuming fix was to the aiming system for the in-game photography camera. It worked perfectly... on a 1280x720 screen, which was the only thing I had ever actually tested it on. Due to scaling issues on other screen sizes, the position and size of the photo that was actually taken was way off from the white aiming line shown by the camera. This has been fixed to work on all screens, big and small, and to produce the same 400x400 photograph on any screen.

There are many transitions in the game that require an unused version of an object (for example, a brand new chisel or a full bowl of berries). The hint system now includes information about this with the new (FRESH) and (FULL) tags. Before, you might try to use a partially-consumed object by following the hints, and there'd be no explanation of why it failed. Your bowl might be one berry short of a pie.

For content fixes, you can finally eat chopped onions, tomatoes, and garlic from a plate without following through with a recipe that uses them. Boards can now be piled up. And an empty plane is no longer stuck on the landing strip until refueling. You can now tow it off for deconstruction without using more fuel.

I'm taking next week off from updating for a family vacation.

jasonrohrer · News

I've finally made it through all of the submitted code issues this week, and I've started on the content issues.

You can now put a temporary buffer stop in the middle of a rail line as a stopping point for rail carts, allowing you to stop and load a cart before letting the cart continue onward. Buffer stops can also be used as safe temporary end-caps for partially-built rail lines, allowing you to build a long line slowly over time while still using the completed portion.

Some finicky issues with rail construction have also been improved.

Automated road pavers now behave sanely when they are on their last (of 24) uses. Before, they would stall and get stuck. Now they can be correctly deconstructed into an empty plow.

There's new support for specially-containable items so they can go into more than one type of specialty container. Currently, this only affects the bowl of water, which can now go onto both the Lab and Food tables, since it's used for both chemistry and food preparation.

And the mysterious and rare horse-cart duplication bug has finally been fixed. Lots of people helped by providing pictures and videos of this bug occurring, so thank you everyone.

jasonrohrer · News

I have finally made it through all of the reproducible code issues that have been reported. There are two big changes that you will notice.

First, the web-based photos interface now allows you to go back through the entire history of 3425 photos that have been taken by players over the past four years in the game. You can browse these photos here:

http://photos.onehouronelife.com/server … front_page

Bear in mind that taking a photograph in the game is no small feat, since it involves building a camera from scratch, which includes glass blowing, tempering spring steel, and silver-nitrate chemistry.

Second, there's a new /PROPERTY command, which you can use to cycle through arrows that point to each property gate that you own. This is especially useful if you inherit distant property, because the temporary arrow that you receive goes away after 60 seconds. But this will also be useful for managing property generally.

There were several other small fixes, including some missing curse logging when not cursing by name, and a long-sought-after fix for mouse positioning on ultra-wide monitors. If you have suffered from fullscreen issues on an ultra-wide monitor in the past, it should be fixed now. Please let me know if you're still having trouble.

There is one remaining open code bug, for a horse cart duplication issue that I haven't been able to reproduce yet. Hopefully someone can shoot a video of this happening.

jasonrohrer · News

I've been going through all the reported issues this week.

Some highlights: Indoor bonus fades gradually instead of suddenly when doors are opened and closed. Leadership and property are no longer inherited across great distances (if the fittest heir is far away) if there are less-fit heirs close by. Partially-used strong skewers no longer make fewer balls of rubber dough. And the big one: if you put 21 fully-loaded banana backpacks in the delivery truck, it doesn't completely break the game anymore. And yeah, that one is kindof a funny story...

jasonrohrer · Main Forum

Also, I'm leaving these pull requests open for now. I might be missing something, and maybe someone can come up with a clever solution to this problem.

jasonrohrer · Main Forum

I see that Tarr spent a ton of time making 32 well-thought-out content updates, and posting them as pull requests.

Looking at them today, I realized, with a heavy heart, that almost all of them won't work.

The problem is inherent to the editing workflow of OHOL, which was, perhaps foolishly, not designed to handle two people editing in parallel (at least not without heavy coordination), even though it's stored on the seemingly-collaborative git.

Each object has a unique ID number, baked into its file name. These ID numbers grow sequentially as new objects are added. And these ID numbers are fixed, and used all over the place (in animations, in transitions, in the protocol between client and server, etc).

Tarr, diligently working in his own parallel editing universe, added 694 new objects, starting with object ID 4750, and ending with object 5056.

There are several problems here:

1. In the main OHOL content, we're already up to object 4751 (the objects added for the new tarry-spot anti-grief fix). Thus, objects 4747, 4748, 4749, 4750, and 4751 conflict with Tarr's object universe. Fixing all of Tarr's patches would require pushing all the ID numbers up consistently, across all the transitions, animations, etc/ that he submitted. Or at least skipping the first few, to get up past object 4751.

2. I would essentially be forced to incorporate all 32 of these push requests, or none of them, or at least some chronological sequence of them, to cover the cases where some of the new ones refer to other new ones.

3. I couldn't progressively incorporate these while also working on my own fixes, additions, and updates in parallel. I.e., I can't squeeze any other new objects "in between" the ones that Tarr made. Again, this forces me into an "all or nothing" situation. Like, I can't fix any other bugs, or add a few of Tarr's changes each week.

4. The longer I wait to look at these, the worse the situation gets, as more objects get added that conflict with Tarr's object universe. I have to incorporate all of Tarr's stuff NOW, before more objects are added (by me) and the situation gets even worse. But my plan was to fix the bugs first...

5. I can't take a look at each pull request in isolation, test it, and see how it works/looks. I pretty much need to pull them all in, and then somehow observe them all together. I could pull them in one-by-one, in order. But if I find one along the way that I don't like, and want to remove that one before incorporating the others, it'd risk breaking the others (if any of the later ones referred to an object ID that I decided to skip including).

The core problem here is that OHOL content is incremental, and builds on what came before. In fact, the editor has several safe-guards to prevent you from accidentally deleting old things that other things still depend on. You can't just go in and delete the shovel without first deleting all the transitions that use it, for example.

Thus, "merging" content using git is extremely messy and error-prone. I'm pretty sure I've shot myself in the foot at least once in the past when editing from different machines, and forgetting to push, and then having to undo a bunch of stuff to fix all of the conflicting object IDs.

There are a few types of content "updates" that do work okay for merges... but mostly just little fixes. Adding a new transition that refers to existing objects is safe. So is changing an existing transition. Or adding an additional existing sprite to the layers of an existing object. Or changing an object's animation.

But adding new sprites, adding new sounds, or adding new objects....

If I had to do this over again, I might make longer guaranteed-unique IDs for each item, instead of short incremental ID numbers. That would help a little bit.

But I chose the short ID numbers for a reason: they are used constantly in the protocol, when communicating map chunks to the client, including the contents of containers on the map. One map chunk might have hundreds or even thousands of object IDs in it. The protocol is human-readible text, so having these object IDs be only 4 ascii digits long (max) is nice for bandwidth. Making the object IDs 5x longer would make the map chunks and other messages 5x bigger.

But even if we used longer guaranteed-unique IDs instead, which would allow us to add new objects in any order, we'd still have a problem with parallel merging of content updates: transitions would still refer to these unique object IDs, which means patches couldn't be selectively merged easily (you might decide to not merge some patch that defines an object that another patch, which you want to merge, refers to).

But it's also that git really isn't designed to work with "structured" file content like this. Git assumes that two remote people would be very unlikely to add different files with the same name in parallel. This is true for programmers. We're not going to both suddenly decide to create GameSaveButton.cpp in parallel, and have a conflict when we push. Or if we ever did end up with a name conflict, we probably wouldn't want to keep the content of BOTH same-named CPP files. But OHOL content files are automatically named by the editor. And two editors working in parallel are going to create new files with the same names. And those same-named files will both contain new, valuable, and different content. I.e., file name conflicts don't imply file-content conflicts.

If I wanted to support parallel editing from the start, I couldn't rely on git alone as the back-end. I'd need my own protocol, where some kind of editing client submits updates to a central editing server, and those updates are "normalized" and merged in a sane way with the existing content base. But that sounds like a mighty hard, unsolved problem to me. Kinda like coding a special-purpose versioning/merging system from scratch. Yikes.

Anyway, I'm looking at the patches submitted by AlecYawata back in 2019, and I see that most of them are the "safe" kind (they only change transition files). But even there, I opted to manually fix these bugs in the editor myself instead of merging, just to be safe and avoid any unforeseen issues. It's hard to look at the text of a transition file and be 100% sure of what its doing, or that it's doing the right thing, or that it doesn't refer to some object that no longer exists.

I mean, that's also an issue, even for a simple patch: the patch was submitted at some point in the past, and who knows what has changed since then? Is the patch still sane, relative to the latest "master" content?

The only way Tarr's update patches would work is he was the sole person adding content to OHOL, and he had final say over what to add, and no one else was editing in parallel. If he plays his cards right, and reserves his seat on that rocket.... maybe someday!

BUT, I realize that even then, Tarr won't suddenly "have his day" and get to add this long-dormant content. Because again, all this content was made in a parallel editing universe, referring to things that may or may not exist anymore when he goes to merge it.

In fact, Tarr's edits, even on his own computer today, have been broken by the tarry-spot changes that I pushed. The only way he can see his 32 content changes is to keep living in the exact "git moment" in which he created them, and never pull anything new down to conflict with what he made.

I'm sad about this.

jasonrohrer · News

After an extended break to focus on other aspects of life, I'm getting back into the swing of things this week by posting a small update, mostly to exercise the update machinery and make sure it's all still working. A triple-platform, 23-server, Steam-synced, native-binary and common content automated build process involves a lot of moving and somewhat fragile parts. I hit a few snags along the way, but got everything ironed out, which should mean smoother sailing with updates going forward.

This update does two relatively trivial things:

First, natural tarry spots now automatically block the spot to their left with a temporary gas vent, preventing griefers from building ancient objects in those spots. They were doing this way out in the wilderness, in anticipation of civilization wanting to settle there in the future. These gas vents clear up as soon as oil is struck in the neighboring tarry spots, allowing advanced oil machinery with pipes that run to the left.

Second, transitions in the editor now have a comment field, allowing notes to be added about more complex and special-purpose object transitions. Coming back after a long time away, there are a lot of complex transitions (like for water that moves through pipes) that could have used comments to help guide future content editors (including my future self).

Comments occur in transition files on the second line (the old files only contained a single line), so hopefully this doesn't mess up third-party parsing tools too much, but if bugs arise in third-party tools, check out how they're parsing transition files.

jasonrohrer · Main Forum

Anyway, I've decided to try it. Mini-update incoming.

jasonrohrer · Main Forum

Ah, here:

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeData7/issues/812

In general, almost everything in the game is deconstructable (except for ancient walls and a few other things).
Iron is scarce in the game. If you find an abandoned engine somewhere, the iron would otherwise be trapped in it.
If the engine cannot be removed, then the engine itself is useless if it's stuck (you can't put it in a car or a plane or a well or an iron mine---it will be stuck where it was initially installed).
So, obviously engines must be removable so they can be re-purposed.
And if an engine can be removed, it can be stolen and hidden, which is just as "bad" as destroying it.
So what's the point of trapping iron in a removable engine? What are we preventing by doing that?
Why not give people the option of getting the iron out of it to use in other things?

Maybe the idea here is that the Well engine and the Mine engine are always useful.... in that they never run out of Water or Ore, as long as you supply more fuel.

Which makes them different from the Car/plane/etc engine, which might not always be useful, so you want to be able to re-purpose them.

So the Well and the Mine engine should be permanent.

But this also came up in this issue:

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeData7/issues/700

We can imagine situations, given that iron is scarce and precious, that someone would want to recycle an engine. That is a powerful thing to be able to do, when necessary.
Property fences are inheritable, as you know.
The fact that "you don't know what the next generation will do" is the entire point of this game.
You're supposed to not "throw up your hands" in the face of that uncertainty. You're supposed to be conducting trans-generational planning, through communication between generations, and passing traditions along. Actually doing that is where stuff gets real... where the "well master" isn't just role-playing, but is actually the guy in charge of the well, and he will pick an apprentice before he dies, to carry on the tradition.
If you're not doing that currently, it's because you don't need to currently---OR because you're ignoring that need, at the expense of your village's survival.
Adding more things to the game that makes such trans-generation communication necessary is a good thing.
I'm well aware that many players HATE the idea of trans-generational cooperation and communication.

There's a lingering question here, which is: should we make OHOL into a game that people want to play a lot, if that means making it less like it's supposed to be, and more like a bunch of other games that already exist?

Trans-gen planning is hard and unfulfilling.... many players come to the conclusion that it's pointless and hopeless. But obviously, that's what this game is about. Solo and team-based survival games are much more fulfilling.

On the flip side, we could say, "Well, in OHOL we build up permanent stuff across generations... we make our little permanent contribution to a growing pyramid of contributions." That's definitely at least in the spirit of what OHOL should be about... but aren't there practicality issues? It means nothing can every change once it's been set in place. Obviously, you want to be able to move walls, etc.

We can say, "Well, just engine placement should never change." But even that could have practicality issues, or even inverse-griefing. What if you're just about to place an engine on the well, and someone runs off and *permanently* puts it on an iron vein?

jasonrohrer · Main Forum

I'm now looking back at the reasoning for why engines were removable in the first place.

jasonrohrer · Fan Art

jasonrohrer · Main Forum

This has been fixed.

Sorry for the horribly crashy night!

jasonrohrer · News

It's a Halloween contest with a prize, Spoon....

It's not even an "update" in the usual sense.

It is supposed to be fun and funny and intriguing for the holiday.

Do you remember the April Fools event that happened earlier this year?

jasonrohrer · News

Thank you for these reports!

Twinning was causing the server crash, due to a memory leak fix that broke something.

I've fixed it, and the fix is rolling out now.

jasonrohrer · News

Tighten up your
riding laces.
Fear shall smear
across their faces.
Tarr pit north
one hundred paces.
Gallop off and
to the races.

Leave them t'wonder
where their face is.

Headless specter
nightly flies.
Deaf to all their
whimp'ring cries.
Shining treasure
somewhere lies
under roiling
Nw'England skies.

Hidden cache
just out of view.
Through real world
you can pursue.
Every head
you sever through.
yields the thief
another clue.

What's not wrong
may not be right.
Many seekers
have to fight.
Study map
by dying light.
Last clue flies on
Hall'ween night.

jasonrohrer · Main Forum

Problem with the old system was that there were certain individuals who were running around killing HUNDREDS of people. That made the game really bad for those victims.

If combat is "skilled" then who is going to get really good a combat? Griefers or bad guys? Obviously griefers, who are killing hundreds, will get the most practice, and be motivated to kill undetected, pick people off on the outskirts of town and run away, etc.

Killing is in the game for a reason---there has to be SOME way to remove troublesome people from your village. But there have to be strict systems around who can do the killing and when it can happen, or else those same troublesome people will use killing themselves to cause even more trouble.

Killing is actually a really big deal in this game. It completely ruins someone else's game. They're in the middle of building this house or whatever, and they have 30 minutes left to work on it, and then BAM, they get killed for no reason. In-progress project lost. It really is the worst experience imaginable.

So if you're going to ruin someone else's game like this, it really has to be justified and well-thought-out.

jasonrohrer · Main Forum

I think this applies to games that use NFTs as a core part of their mechanics. Games with NFT trading and marketplaces built-in.

Obviously not games, Like OHOL and TCD, that have a few NFTs that have been made about them.

jasonrohrer · Main Forum

Be nice to me, please.

Help me want to work on the game.

jasonrohrer · Main Forum

"Goals" are different than "promises," of course. Early on, my goal for this game was to have 10,000 craftable objects There are currently over 3000.

I also had an unstated goal of 100 playable characters. There are currently 22.

But over the intervening years, my thinking about this game has changed somewhat. More isn't necessarily better, despite what some players seem to want. I had someone ask me for "garlic bread" in the Discord yesterday. Would garlic bread make the game better? Would that be a good use of my time?

As you are all aware, there is LOADS of so-called "dead content" in the game. Which sounds more interesting? Making garlic bread in the game, or breeding/evolving specific types of dogs from wild wolves? Well, dog breeding is in the game, but people almost never do it.

You can say, "But the way dogs work isn't that interesting." Yeah, of course. If you're going to have 10,000 objects, most of the stuff is going to be somewhat simple. 10 different kinds of sushi, and that kind of thing. You can play fetch with your dog! And your dog follows you around! And you can have a guard dog. What else do you want it to do? Herd sheep or something? But sheep don't really need herding, right?

You can also PLAY POKER in the game, with the way the card decks work, but almost no one does that.

What people actually want is not 10,000 odds and ends, but a more tightly-crafted group of things that work together in interesting, complex, and emergent ways.

So... adding "rabbit breeding" or "beekeeping" to the game, or whatever "side branch" you can think of, wouldn't make the game better. It probably wouldn't make it worse, but most players would completely ignore that "useless" content after a short while, and I would have just wasted my time. Well, unless it was an even more efficient way to getting food than the ways currently available. Then it would replace something else, and render that older thing as dead content.

Adding a bunch more characters is also probably a waste of time. There are "enough" in the game currently, most of the time, to recognize each other and get a kick out of how different/cute they look. I could "squeeze out" a bunch more characters, but they probably wouldn't be as iconic as the current ones, because there are only so many "very unique" character designs.

And in the face of this, there's also burn-out to consider. It's really hard to spend a week working on adding stuff to the game, and then find out that people don't really use it.

If it's not core, the truth is, they won't use it after a while.

In walking around the world as VOG, I can't remember the last time I saw a sports car. I mean.... that was such a cool piece of content. All those colors, and unique racing numbers per car. I spent so much time working on that and thinking about it and drawing it. It was ABOVE AND BEYOND the car shown in the trailer that everyone had been complaining about missing for ages.

I'm not complaining... I get it.... there are very good reasons why you guys don't make sports cars!

At the same time, you should understand why I don't want to ADD more stuff like sports cars to the game.

I need to pick my battles, and maximize the bang-for-the-buck of the stuff that I add to the game.

As much as many of you all hated The Rift, war swords, and all the other large-scale "ground changes" to the game over the past few years, at least that stuff wasn't dead content that you could ignore.

Something fresh was going on in OHOL that you had to grapple with.

jasonrohrer · Main Forum

I have been taking an extended break from OHOL to focus on other things.

You may have heard that my family and I fled California due to the compound effects of fires, crime, extreme covid lockdowns, riots, and continuously rising housing prices.

I made a good amount of money from OHOL (probably less than you think I made, especially considering five years of full-time work), but it was never quite enough to buy even a crappy house in Davis, CA. We would essentially be going ALL IN by finally buying a house there.... all in on what, exactly? Our kids hadn't been able to see their friends face-to-face for 6 solid months, and we were trapped inside our house for 7 weeks due to unbreathable wildfire air outside. Meanwhile, people who were committing violent crimes were being released within hours (or not arrested at all---no room due to social distancing in the jails), and downtown Sacramento had a 10-block stretch that was completely boarded up for months, due to riots, just a few blocks from the state capitol.

Buying a crappy house in CA for way too much money no longer seemed like a wise all-in bet.

Our home life---our 3-year plan that had turned into a 9-year plan---had essentially fallen apart.

And we've spent the last year building back up a different home life, with a different long term plan, in New Hampshire. We didn't QUITE escape the wildfire smoke, because the West Coast smoke was so bad this summer that it blew all the way to New Hampshire for a few days. But nothing's boarded up, there are no riots, and our kids can see their friends freely.

Our new home life isn't quite 100% on track yet, but getting close. I generally don't do well focusing on more than one big thing at a time, so I'm continuing to wait to get back to working on OHOL until things completely settle down and I can devote my full attention to it for a while.

In the mean time, I've been keeping myself feeling productive by cultivating Project December with two fingers while my other eight fingers focus on building home life. I work on it a handful of hours per week, in a spare moment here and there. I can't work on OHOL that way.... I need to sit down at a table and draw for four hours at a time.

But when I get back to it, here's the plan:

---Of course fix all the open bugs

---Do several months of bigger content updates

---Figure out a satisfying "endgame" of some kind.

jasonrohrer · Main Forum

You don't really need modding/coding skills to make most of these changes.

Almost all of this stuff can be turned on and off via simple server settings.

I think you can even bring back the rift, and define how big it is, etc., via server settings.

jasonrohrer · Main Forum

Hah.... well, Jason is still not really "back," but he had a waypoint in Davis before packing the build machine.

jasonrohrer · Main Forum

I just checked the log, which now has a few weeks of data using the new "first homeland" instead of "primary homeland" code. Looking good:

After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33762
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -32413
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33082
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33082
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -32398
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -32840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33619
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33619
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33899
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33899
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33899
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33899
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33899
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -33899
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34199
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34199
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34199
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34173
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34173
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34173
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34173
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34173
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34173
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34173
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34173
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34173
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34173
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34173
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34173
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34173
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34173
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34213
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34213
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34213
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34213
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34213
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34213
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34213
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34259
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34259
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34259
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34259
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34259
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34259
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34259
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34259
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34259
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34259
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34259
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34413
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34259
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34259
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34259
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34259
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34259
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34259
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -34119
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34063
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34063
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34063
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34063
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34260
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34346
    After discarding outliers, have 4 first homelands with average x position -34510
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34640
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34460
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34460
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34460
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34707
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34707
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34460
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34460
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34460
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34587
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34587
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34587
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34587
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34587
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34587
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34587
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34587
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34587
    After discarding outliers, have 4 first homelands with average x position -34680
    After discarding outliers, have 5 first homelands with average x position -34784
    After discarding outliers, have 4 first homelands with average x position -34741
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 4 first homelands with average x position -34743
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34817
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34817
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34817
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34817
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34817
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34817
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34817
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34622
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34622
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34588
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34735
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34735
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34735
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34735
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34622
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -34622
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34735
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34735
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34735
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34735
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34735
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34735
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34735
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -34735
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35440
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35440
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35440
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35440
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35440
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35440
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35440
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35440
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35440
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35680
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35680
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35680
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35680
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35680
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35680
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35680
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35680
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35680
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35680
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35680
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35680
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35260
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35441
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35441
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35441
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35441
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35441
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35441
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35441
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35441
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35441
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35441
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35441
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35800
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35800
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35118
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35800
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35800
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35800
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35801
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35801
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35801
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35801
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -36040
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -36040
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -36040
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -36040
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35805
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35805
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35805
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35805
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35805
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35805
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35805
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35805
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35805
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35990
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35990
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35990
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35990
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35265
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35265
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35265
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35265
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35443
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35443
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35443
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35443
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35445
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35802
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -35802
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35445
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35445
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -35916
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -36259
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -36259
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -36259
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -36259
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36526
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36526
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36526
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36526
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36526
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36526
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36526
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36526
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36526
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36526
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36526
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36526
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36526
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -36657
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -36657
    After discarding outliers, have 4 first homelands with average x position -36793
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -37220
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -37220
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -37220
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -37220
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -37220
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -37220
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36786
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36786
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36786
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36786
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36786
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36786
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36786
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -36786
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -37200
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -37200
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -37660
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -37660
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -37660
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -37660
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -37200
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -38240
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -38240
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38333
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38493
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38260
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38333
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38333
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38260
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38260
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38360
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38360
    After discarding outliers, have 4 first homelands with average x position -38508
    After discarding outliers, have 4 first homelands with average x position -38508
    After discarding outliers, have 4 first homelands with average x position -38508
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38597
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38597
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38597
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38597
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38597
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38597
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38597
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38597
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38597
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38597
    After discarding outliers, have 4 first homelands with average x position -38738
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38756
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38891
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38891
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38756
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38756
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38756
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38756
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38756
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38756
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38756
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38891
    After discarding outliers, have 4 first homelands with average x position -38948
    After discarding outliers, have 4 first homelands with average x position -38948
    After discarding outliers, have 5 first homelands with average x position -39030
    After discarding outliers, have 4 first homelands with average x position -38948
    After discarding outliers, have 4 first homelands with average x position -38948
    After discarding outliers, have 4 first homelands with average x position -38948
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38877
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38840
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38840
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38877
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38877
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38877
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38877
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38877
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38891
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38891
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38891
    After discarding outliers, have 4 first homelands with average x position -38946
    After discarding outliers, have 4 first homelands with average x position -38946
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38874
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38874
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38874
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38874
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38874
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38874
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38874
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38874
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38874
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38943
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38943
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -38943
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38835
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38835
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38835
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38835
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38835
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38835
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38835
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38835
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38835
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38835
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -38835
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -39760
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -39760
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -39760
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -39760
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -39760
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -39760
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -39760
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -39760
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -39760
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -39760
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -39760
    After discarding outliers, have 1 first homelands with average x position -39760
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -39880
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -39960
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -39960
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40106
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40360
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40340
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40340
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40340
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40340
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40340
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40340
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40340
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40340
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40340
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40340
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40340
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40466
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40466
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40340
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40413
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40360
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40601
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40601
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40614
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40614
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40614
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40614
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40614
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40614
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40614
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40614
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40614
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40614
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40614
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40614
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40614
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40614
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40542
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40616
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40662
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40662
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40662
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40788
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -40788
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -41013
    After discarding outliers, have 3 first homelands with average x position -41013
    After discarding outliers, have 2 first homelands with average x position -40800

There is a very slow, steady drift westward, which is is what it's supposed to be doing. Walk East to find old stuff, city ruins, etc. Walk West for virgin territory.

And no sudden, huge jumps back East for Eve spawns, which is the buggy behavior we saw before, and that's gone now.

Regarding the rest of this thread..... I think we can acknowledge that the design problems here are hard to solve. Everyone has their own favorite, pet solution. But every solution has it's own weaknesses or holes or problems. Every once it a while, I fall under the spell of someone's pet solution, and become convinced, and then implement it. But it always seems to create other problems.

I've found that multiplayer game design like this... especially in a persistent world.... is just very very hard. The Castle Doctrine had similar classes of design problems that were hard, if not impossible, to solve. You have a world that is there, and players have somewhat limitless impacts on that world over the long haul. Degen strategies tend to crop up pretty easily in such a space....

Add an infinite world, and it gets even worse!

Single player games are much easier to "get right." Inside a Star-filled Sky is pretty close to "perfect," and I have no nagging design regrets. It's an infinite world, but there's only one player, playing against a designed system, instead of with and against other players.

If you look at a game like Rust, which is quite similar to OHOL in many ways (an inspiration for OHOL), you can see that they struggled with lots of hard design problems over many years. They kept trying new solutions, one after another. It wasn't the game improving, or getting bigger... it was constant changes to the fundamentals. How do players unlock new tech? How do buildings work? Ownership? Property rights? Resource spawns? Wealth accumulation? etc.

Rust didn't have an infinite world, but they still faced the accumulation of player-built structures and loot. I'm pretty sure they STILL solve that problem with regularly scheduled wipes (weekly, monthly, etc.).... which never felt like a satisfying solution. They tried decay and a bunch of other things along the way..... but that still wouldn't stop a dedicated group of players from building up a massive fortress and keeping it forever...

When I set out to make OHOL, I kinda knew it wasn't going to be perfect. It was always meant to be a messy, "kitchen sink" type game.

And it won't ever be perfect. There are just too many variables, pulling in too many different directions.

Do I really want to give up an infinite world? No.

In the end, it's really about how OHOL feels, and an infinite world is part of that feeling.... the feeling that you're in an isolated village, but somewhere out there, there are other people in another village.... or that there are lost, abandoned villages out there. How many? Who knows? And where does this road lead? And who made it? Holy crap, this road is long!

I've spent a lot of time trying to sculpt OHOL into a better game for people who are going to play 100s or 1000s of hours. Like, where is the challenge after you've mastered the tech tree? How will you not get bored?

But I've got to be careful not to take away the magical feeling in the process.

And that magical feeling is mostly felt---at least most intensely---by new players.

It's really hard for the veterans to see the game through that lens.

Compared to many of you, I myself am just a "new player." My main game account only has 132 hours logged on the live servers.

When I log in for a life, I can still feel some of that wonder and magic.... being born into a situation, somewhere in an infinite world, and trying to figure out what needs to be done, and how I can do it, before my brief life is over.

So, despite what the veterans might say, I don't think that the game is spoiled or ruined or anything like that.

But it's definitely not perfect.

jasonrohrer · Main Forum

This is live now, as client v364.

One Hour One Life Forums

#51 News » Update: No Perma » 2023-06-23 21:32:50

#52 News » Update: True Aim » 2023-06-10 01:50:20

#53 News » Update: Rail Buffer » 2023-06-02 19:46:40

#54 News » Update: All That Remains » 2023-05-24 22:25:20

#55 News » Update: New Fixes » 2023-05-19 21:51:00

#56 Re: Main Forum » Why new content pull requests don't work » 2023-05-16 15:32:07

#57 Main Forum » Why new content pull requests don't work » 2023-05-16 15:25:39

#58 News » Update: Back in the Saddle » 2023-05-13 17:28:49

#59 Re: Main Forum » How To Make the Diesel Mining Pick Get Used More » 2022-04-01 01:30:13

#60 Re: Main Forum » How To Make the Diesel Mining Pick Get Used More » 2022-03-31 23:32:54

#61 Re: Main Forum » How To Make the Diesel Mining Pick Get Used More » 2022-03-31 23:15:01

#62 Fan Art » Fan Art: by Yamina S. » 2021-12-18 17:56:26

#63 Re: Main Forum » Server Crash Every Hour » 2021-10-30 20:09:28

#64 Re: News » Headless Hunt Contest » 2021-10-30 11:37:49

#65 Re: News » Headless Hunt Contest » 2021-10-29 17:24:24

#66 News » Headless Hunt Contest » 2021-10-29 05:14:19

#67 Re: Main Forum » How did the combat become so shit » 2021-10-28 22:42:55

#68 Re: Main Forum » Steam bans all games with NFTs » 2021-10-28 22:34:09

#69 Re: Main Forum » Basic courtesy for the developer » 2021-10-28 22:30:19

#70 Re: Main Forum » Basic courtesy for the developer » 2021-10-28 15:20:41

#71 Main Forum » The plan moving forward » 2021-10-06 13:10:25

#72 Re: Main Forum » Modded Custom Server » 2021-06-07 17:37:13

#73 Re: Main Forum » Temporary Sound Patch » 2021-06-07 17:30:29

#74 Re: Main Forum » Another fix for Eve spawns is incoming. » 2021-06-07 17:24:49

#75 Re: Main Forum » Temporary Sound Patch » 2021-05-27 08:27:37

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