a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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I do not miss chain-birthing baby after baby for thirty minutes every female life. It was too much.
Yes, it was, especially if you're a softie like me and won't abandon them. Maybe I should spend more time raising them per kid, though nothing I do seems to increase my children's survival rate. I do kind of just pump them out and hope for the best.
I found out that there is no much meaning to play, since I can hardly build any relationship after that life.
Should it be that kind of the game?
literally the point, try to do something meaningful in the one hour of life you have.
i hate it when people /die in general.
ok, does anyone desire to start using the current 10 member FB group, then, I suppose?
But group is obv dead, anyone want to start one and use it?
It's been hard to place the causes of changes in lineages in the last month or so, with the important changes, your family line continuing, having kids etc
Though it's been a frustrating transition, pro-actively putting some effort into continuing your family line being important is a worthwhile gameplay mechanism.
I'm a pretty compulsive worker, so it's been driving me crazy, standing by the fire to get to right temp, and focusing on yum etc, and then seeing kids in lineage where girls live to 60 and have no children, etc,
But i really think this premise is strong, that some women focus their activities on procreating, and others go about their lives and produce some kids here and there, but women who focus on it have a bunch of kids.
Also, if i can get in the habit of it, it all works well, spending two minutes working with the kid next to you after each kid then going to the fire to get "pregnant" again. These systems were already in place, but naked in the desert being perfect temp, it mattered a lot less.
I just have to remember to play that way, to get all the BBs I want.
Anyway, how has this changed your play in terms of procreation, and how would you balance this further? I'm seriously just so compulsively busy, i can't make myself stand still to procreate the most, no matter how hard i try.
I still like the idea that a man a certain amount of relation away [or unrelated] is a fertility variable.
I was gone form like early July-January, but tilling was absolutely enormous. it always needed to be a thing, but huge change.
roads in general, are great, roads right next to berry farms are annoying AF
one of my things about wanting to settle farther out is I always want a road to actually go from place to place, instead of being built for its own sake, and then the place arising.
One thing, I think a lot of players, and Jason, want is for different family lines and civs to run into eachother, and roads make that WAY more likely. In the wilds, you can see signs of humanity all over, but wander around and not find an obvious path. A road takes you to an alive or dead civ you may have otherwise missed.
I really should spend a life as a roadmaker, i've been trying to do more parts of the game i never do, and i never make roads.
There's basically no OHOL presence on FB, despite my always trying to convince people to play. I'd be down to start an explicitly unofficial FB page for the game that is only moderated for the purpose of spam and fighting a serious zucc, if people are down to join?
For one thing, we're all used to FB now and using a BB is just annoying at this point, it remind me of being 15. For another thing, i would certainly be amused by Aurora's nonsense, though understand why it's a problem on a kid appropriate discord.
Anyway, if 10 or so people say they'd regularly use a OHOL FB group, I'd be down to start one, and "moderate".
Not that any of Jason's recent copyright/trademark dispute are meant to shut down discussion groups about his game, but I would 100% put "Unofficial" in the name of a FB group, i just want to know if anyone in here would actually use it.
yeah i'm getting a different kind of disconnects now, where it suddenly goes to the disconnect screen and usually reconnects rapidly. it mostly only happens in cities, and only when I've just loaded, so i'm assuming its a problem with the initial loading. It's been relatively infrequent, but when it does happen may be several times in the first 5 minutes of play.
I'm also getting some slowdown, but it's pretty steady slowdown at least so i can still play.
regarding the clay and smith being separate: there is a near infinite demand for charcoal, it's pretty damn easy to fire a few plates and bowls before throwing adobe on the kiln.
in general, monetizing open-source things is a challenge, it's a sharing type economy. it's why most good open source things are made by a large group of volunteers and/or hobbyists. Or make money off of paid tech support, server access like this, etc.
There isn't an obvious solution that doesn't involve government force besides keeping the code secret, and trade industry rules, such as a private agreement with Valve.
I'm not a coder, but that people can get into the code and find out all sorts of crazy stuff that's going on in game is an amusing and endearing, if sometimes frustrating, aspect of this community.
i suppose you're right. Under the previous system there was nothing stopping a person from selling the same thing at lower cost with literally no development costs. For a game 150 people play at a time, it's an unlikely thing for someone to try to do and profit from. If it getting 100k downloads in China, suddenly the nature of what can happen looks drastically different.
I play a fair amount of open source games, and none of them appear to have any profit model. i suppose all you've had going for you thus far is relative obscurity [in terms of no one intentionally stealing your income stream].
I still think that the ultimate result, if things stayed the same, would be that you'd always make enough money with your service to live well on, because everything would always lead to some new players on official servers, but if the game goes "viral" completely unprotected someone can just make a version that plays a 15 sec ad before every game and is free to play or any number of things.
i suppose, with the amount of thought you've given at this point, I wouldn't bet the family home on something like that not destroying your revenue stream.
i've read his essays against intellectual property, but not the actual book. it really is an absurd concept, and represents a government granted artificial monopoly.
To quote the great Flavor Flav, "Y'all can't copyright no beat, yo Chuck are they crazy man?"
I want long term hunting-gathering to be more fun and viable as well. A big thing is, if you keep moving, it's easy to find enough food, and there isn't much of a challenge. Like just hanging out in a green biome then moving to the next isn't fun. I do think some changes could be made to make nomad culture more viable, esp being able to cut burdock in three and plant with skewer but takes one epoch to mature. (but no water or placed soil)
In theory, i like the idea of it taking longer to form a permanent camp, like say it's the gen 3 kids who start being sedentary, but there are at least two major problems with that, on top of lack of babywearing
1) Player base will revolt if tech to start agriculture becomes more complicated
2) The map is so vast that if a male child is lost at all his life is basically pointless.
Still, i like the premise that Eve is feral and running around and its her kids who actually start camps. But in my experience kids won't stay with you unless you have a camp or are obviously starting one.
I for one would like to know that if there's a plane (or monorail! or atomic robot!) it managed to get built because the players have figured out how to achieve intergenerational cooperation and productivity, and not because the plane fairy spent a few lives there making one as a gift.
well, that's a fair point, but this game includes an incredible amount of stuff to learn, so besides a small amount of "pro" players knowing the most complex crafting recipes, really the only other alternative is having consistently stable enough societies that some players only learn higher level tech.
I mean, i personally do need to work on continuing to move up the tech tree, cause I know way more of the necessary survival stuff, but I'm a long ass way from learning what i need to know to make planes.
At the same time, another way to look at this, was Jason's original idea was that it would take a really long time to advance to the tech he had made, which hasn't been the case, because a small number of people are high-tech aficionados who always get through any complex new tech.
Also, you said the thing about the "plane god", but some dude in a plane landing in a primitive civ and not having fuel to return and spending the rest of his life there is like my favorite storyline thing i've heard in this game lol
yeah I've ran into this problem. In my experience, people who admit to being new can be some of the best players, because they actually want to learn and contribute. Some people say you should just abandon or kill kids who admit to being new, which only works once, because then they just lie about it and avoid people.
In an established camp I usually just see if they ask questions, but I go around telling them how the camp is.
In newer camps i just say, "make basket, always carry food"
I actually had a daughter ask how to make basket the other day, and I said "just take mine, gather and bring back to camp", just staying alive they'll learn plenty.
I've had some really good kids who are new, and watching what i'm doing. I feel like there's an early-mid point in learning where people start trying to learn complex tasks and forget to eat. Kids can learn quite a lot just from staying alive to see what's going on.
ummm, re: iron isn't a liquid...it's common to drain water from areas so mining becomes accessible, not to even mention fracking.
And re: Peremptives ridiculous statement: it is not the "most American thing ever" to think you should work to get things you want. If anything, it's American to be entitled and spoiled and want everything without working for it. in other parts of the world kids are sorting through junk yards to get scrap metal so they can buy food, it's not unreasonable nor "American" advice to tell the kid to do some work to buy things he wants. His view is that his parents have the money to buy the game but choose not to give it to him, so clearly, he's of an economic status where acquiring money is within reach.
I mean, this kid is spending his time playing a game where you work to get what you want. Try applying some of that to real life, I bet you can get paid to scoop shit, just like it pays off in game.
it's not real life, so it's not morally wrong at all If the person was around trying to play, they'd be there playing. If you are actually having crisis from lack of women, it makes all the sense in the world to keep an AFK mom alive. It's not like you're drugging her then strapping her to a gurney and raping her to get kids, its just an acct logged in without the person there.
I've stopped following the ins and outs of this, but I fear, in requiring 2HOL to only allow people who have paid for access to your official servers to play, you've lost your way.
unless i'm misunderstanding, that's a non-commercial service and the game is explicitly free, with server access being the thing being sold.
I completely understand why you are frustrated with the situation, but I worry you're "throwing out the baby with the bathwater", so to speak.
personally, I love this game, $20 has been an amazing value, and I'm glad to support your incredible work, so none of this effects me in a meaningful way. But on a personal level, I suspect when you look back on all of this years from now, you will regret telling 2HOL to flip that switch, if only for moral and intellectual reasons.
just my opinion as a "friend" [wellwisher, more accurately, i suppose.] There's no reason you need to value my opinion, but as I have grown to admire you as a person, I would be remiss if i didn't express my thoughts.
Besides Chard's crazy visualization, I've accidentally ran along the Eve spiral before (at least, i'm pretty damn sure that's what was going on), and most attempted Eve camps really do accomplish an incredibly small amount.
I don't know that i have any answers- and as Tarr kindly explained I was misunderstanding the issue entirely- but in my subjective experience playing in a limited number of civs it seems as if that has changed birth patterns far more than intended, and reduced average generation survival a great deal.
I do think that Tarr is going to do what it takes to play the game how he wants, and unless he's causing serious problems for other players I don't know if it's worth changing the game to thwart him. Tarr doesn't seem to be malicious, it's not like Joriom causing all the problems he can to prove a point.
Then again, I don't use discord, so i probably have a limited idea what goes on with the experience of the higher level players.
I have been in a civ where too many people were devoted plane production and a lot of other important stuff was not getting done, so that well could have been Tarr directing them, i suppose, but that was the game being played as intended lol
I'm not a coder, and i don't make videogames, but there is no obvious reason to me that a tool could not have custom probabilities based on what it is used for. Other than that it would presumably take some work because you'd have to code in the rate for use on each object.
Picking up manure should not necessarily break down the shovel (you ever seen a shovel give out shoveling dog shit?) but of course it would make people all the more hostile to other uses if manure didn't wear it down.
i assume the basket stacking/unstacking resetting the decay timer is an exploit, not intentional, right? That's good to know though.
i like the baby bump idea but the problem is that's time another player is just waiting to be spawned in, since it would only make sense if the mother has already been assigned the baby, so you have a player having longer login times for no other purpose than to alert the mother a baby is coming. And since it assigns based on yum and warmth, AFAIK there isn't just like a queue that stays the same, it choose the top available mother at that second, doesn't it?
Well, i don't use /die so i never do spawn as an Eve.
For this exact purpose, the area ban isn't so different from the lineage ban, because i'd still be in the same lineage. And it's not that i think they need to be truly permanent lineages, I just would like to see a pattern of migration outwards from cities.
But yes, a lot of people are really hesitant to stay with a mom making a new camp if she isn't an Eve, i'm not sure why.
oh, yeah, i thought lineage ban was also still in effect, and forgot that eves can be triplets, which I guess was a majorly exploitable issue under lineage bans, which area ban deals with. I'm not convinced twins should be allowed to Eve, but I suppose thats another issue entirely.
So, i guess most of what I said is just wrong and i was misunderstanding the changes, all i really know then, is that there have been more Eves producing shorter lines since the area ban was put into effect. At least, that's what I've observed from looking at the lineage server, i don't have any data about numbers of eves and average length of family lines.