a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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A hog can easily tear off your arm and scuffle away with it. They are no joke.
Also you can kill semi-tame hogs with a bow, which you need to get one in the first place. The acquisition of a pig can be done easily and seasmlessly rather quickly away from town as to not endager anyone. Having extra death features is redundant imo, easpecialyl since there may be cases when you would want semi-tames around.
What are you on about? Can be done easily and seamlessly away from town? I'm sure it can.
Didn't you get that the point is that this is being used for griefing? Can we at least make it so that this griefing has a time limit?
Domestic wolves (semi-tame) have the same properties.
This is on purpose.
You are domesticating wild and dangerous animals. It's supposed to be dangerous work. They are especially dangerous because they are partially domesticated. The wild ones run away. The partially domestic ones kinda like you and follow you.
Getting hog cut is no joke. Just ask Old Yeller:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTzwS38GK1s
(Also, the amount of "real" animal interaction in that scene is jaw-dropping. That kind of scene would never be shot in a modern film.... wow).
Anyway, just wait until I add bear domestication!
Then, could you maybe make them age like dogs? So they aren't eternally "semi domesticated". Or just turn them into wild after X moves or something.
Maybe also decrease eve window back to 2 hours? 2 hours should be more than enough to have sustainable towns and if players get too dispersed in new families each will die out faster from birth starvation.
I suspect part of the reason the reset is being so recurrent is so griefers can eternally spawn as eve to grief penalty free, 8 hours a day.
So while writing my last story I was considering the story as experienced by all the characters. More specifically a girl that was killed at 16 and wrote as her last words "Why kill me mom?". Quite heartbreaking. She could have been roleplaying but I find it more likely she was a newer player not yet desensitized to the rampage random griefing we currently have in the game. And if that was indeed the case I reckon that player got a very poor experience out of the game.
I got thinking, how cool would it be if that player had a way to know about the larger story in which she was a character on? Maybe the experience wouldn't just be bad. Reading about her life in the context of a larger story and seeing how others perceived her. All those undecipherable and unsuccessful attempts at communication. The misunderstandings. The ulterior motives. What followed your death. Were you avenged? How did other people react to your death? Was it random? Did the attacking raiders had a reason? Were they desperate?
Being part of a greater epic, knowingly or not, would be pretty cool, even if you were prematurely and randomly killed by your mother. Or by some seemingly random raiders.
Maybe something in game could be implemented but much easier would be to have "story notifications". Maybe the email addresses associated with OHOL could link up with the family tree whenever someone mentioned their one of their lives, notifying the person in question they had been mentioned in a story.
A possible implementation could be a completely separate page in which you could freely submit your story link (forum, reddit, steam, etc) and a list of family tree links of the protagonists. Process would most likely need to be supervised and the emails semi-manually triggered to avoid abuse or "griefing bragging stories". Maybe a backend where volunteers could check on the stories to confirm they are legit? People could turn on or off those notifications somehow. Maybe in-game option and a one-time prompt to see if they want it at all?
Having a way to share my story with that new player would be awesome, specially for her. How cool would it be to get an email notification of a story in which you were involved and someone else shared.
We don't have that many stories right now but chances are they would increase in number and frequency if people felt they were read. OHOL is great in terms of getting experiences, but the before and after are missing. You can be part of a great epic without knowing, and that is fine. But what if you could know? How better could it get?
I was born as a little boy to in a town full of Hazelwoods. Me and my mother Maya Terranova were part of the town like any other of their lineage which was great. I helped a bit with forging and then with compost and carrots.
On discord, NGB was calling for help to save Terranova family, so I decided to go look for the Terranova town. I took my own stuff which had belonged to my mother and off I went. North of town I found the gu town, and searched for many years for the Terranova town. Along the way I found a horse which helped me a lot to cover a lot of area but was never able to find the fabled town.
Along the way I find a small closed camp, with a young girl, named Alice Gu stuck inside, banging at the gate she couldn't open with a sad face. I go to one of the sides and see it still was a shaky fence, so I use my knife to break it up for her. I couldn't understand her but she seemed very happy, I gave her backpack, pants and wolf hat I found together with the horse. And said goodbye and good luck.
She however started following me looking sad. I was looking for my own family and tried to explain it to her, but she was adamant in following me. I ignored her for a couple minutes but she was very persistent so I gave in and tried to bring her to the Gu town I found earlier. I brought her back to the small compound and left her there. I noticed who I assumed was her mother moving around but didn't think much of it. Went south to confirm the exact location of the Gu town leaving Alice behind, she tried to follow me but I would be right back, it would be fine.
I confirm the town location, not that far, straight south. I go back and don't find her, only her mother next to the gate with a bow and arrow. mental alarms start ringing. And an increasingly terrible premonition creeps in. No! No way. Where the heck is Alice!?
I look around the compound in ever increasing circles, dreading what I might find, hoping I'm wrong. Until I see it. A bloody grave, named Alice Gu, died 2 years ago. Oh no Alice. I'm so sorry you died alone. Why!? My blood is boiling! Her own daughter! That BITCH!! I only have a knife and the she-devil has a bow and is ready for me so I'm at a big disadvantage but I'll definitely try to give her a piece of my mind. Alice didn't deserve that. But you will!
We face off, me using the horse to keep myself at range and waiting for her to need food to drop down the bow. Picking the time to engage is my only possible advantage. We go back and forth a good 3 to 5 minutes. Finally I go for it, she responds and... we both miss! Both weapons on the floor. I curse myself and I go for the knife as fast as I can, but to my surprise her reaction is to grab the horse. I quickly stash the knife and grab the bow and arrow and try to get her from range, she sees it and starts to flee, I managed to get a lock but it was too far to be able to let the arrow go. She flees south riding the horse she just took from me and I follow. She tries to direct me me into nearby wolves but I'm not having any of that, I keep my lock, safe distance from the wolves and keep chase.
2/3 on the way to Gu town the unexpected happens. A child comes out of the she-devil. The baby boy looks confused at first, unsure on what to do, hesitating, but soon starts running away from me, either trying to get his mother to save him or to flee from the no relation man armed with the bow making killing noises. Probably both.
I can't leave this child to die. Not like Alice. I quickly ask the child to come to me and to my relief he does, having no other choice he put all his faith on me. I drop the bow and arrow, praying the she-devil won't come back and use them to finish both of us. I hurriedly grab the child into the nearest berry bush and feed him a berry.
I try to explain the situation to him the best I can, not sure how much he understood due to the language barrier but he was sad when I told him about his sister's fate. I name him James Gu. I'm getting increasingly old and worry I won't make it back to Gu town with a child in tow. I stock up on the few berries I can find, grab him and go for it. He eventually manages to grab food and starts following me. We go around the fence and enter the town. A young girl comes to see what is going on and the boy must have explained to her as she was quite friendly from there on. I direct the boy to the berry bushes and wish him good luck and to prosper. I give him everything I own but my knife. "I'm off to kill your mom, goodbye and good luck".
Hoping he will live long and happily, and sensing my impending death I go forth, in my suicidal revenge quest, the Terranova town long forgotten, to kill the she-devil. Only to see Joy Gu, Alice's mother, aka the she-devil, arrive by horse, and chilling next to the bushes I had just left the boy on. You think you can cause so much pain and get away with it? THE HELL YOU CAN!
I promptly turn around and stab her in front of everyone. Curses be damned! You coming down with me! The boy and the girl quickly spoke in my defense as far as I understood as I wasn't stabbed in retaliation, but as I was declaring mission accomplished the she-devil was healed!! I went and stabbed her again. This time a Gu member stabbed me in retaliation but I was fine with it. I cursed the she-devil and watch in anticipation, my undecipherable pleads to not heal her falling in deaf ears. As expected they went to try to heal her again but the young girl managed to snatch the bowl of pads so to not let anyone heal the she-devil again. Way to go young girl! The she-devil was in despair trying to convince them to save her, but obviously failing, doomed to die. And I was very happy with that. I finally got you! And this time for good!
My son started healing me but I was about to die of old age anyway so I tried to not let him waste pads on an old man, he managed to heal me but I starved the next second.
I never got to see the aftermath of my actions but I hope everyone was better off from them.
Good luck James Gu, live your life well, for both you and your sister.
Jim Terranova
Alice Gu, the girl
Joy Gu, the she-devil
James Gu, the boy
PS: When proofreading I realized I wrote "my son" when mentioning the boy at the end. I guess in my heart he was already mine.
Do we really need to have domestic boars both chasing and deadly?
A few comparisons with other deadly animals:
* wild boars flee
* wolves flee
* normal bears move randomly
* shot bears chase but walk slower
* pit bulls chase and are deadly but they get old after some moves
Domestic boars are essentially eternal budget pit bulls.
Maybe you could "area of effect" on renewals? Like hitting a fence would propagate the hit to nearby fences (1 tile away should be enough).
Now if only we didnt need to fix corners. Or be able to renew them diagonally.
I reckon that is because you have been playing the game wrong, granted that perhaps by no fault of your own.
I see you (and a lot of people) treating as if it was minecraft:
1. Ability to respawn in the same village after you die;
2. Huge focus on building projects like parks, monuments, buildings, etc.
3. New shining blocks to build with;
Even your main complaint seems to be about not having enough things to build. And the assertion that is what makes the game repetitive and boring.
As I interpret it the game is about having experiences.
How you relate to others, how you as a community relate to external threats or opportunities. Relationships you form during your life, the laughs, the rage, the disagreements, the overcoming of challenges, the failure to survive and feed your children, the fuzzy feeling you get inside when you work to clothe your child and she smiles as thanks, or when a new player is super happy for being able to plant berries and make compost.
That moment new players (probably in their first game without instant dying) experience their first child being born and for a moment they just stand there staring dumbfounded at the screaming baby, half lost, not sure what to do. Picking up the baby, giving them a name and seeing the baby do the /love emote or smile. Sometimes they even try to emulate the telling of the story the town, give them a tour like they got, or brag to the babies about what they are doing with a sense of pride. How they die of old age surrounded by their children right as the song ends (very awesome touch Jason, that song is spot on, always gives me the feels!).
I remember a lot of my first lives, how many times I died for not being used to hunger, that time I tried to plant berries by digging a wild bush out of the ground (I asked someone how to do it) and carrying the dug bush to town asking how to replant it next to the others. (I'm sure to the great amusement of quite a few people)
I remember finding lost relatives in the wild, one time even a full family, and bringing them back to town, the joy everyone had, the reencounter with old friends, finally not having to be hungry again, not having to live going from berry bush to berry bush, finally having clothing for your children and a fire to place new ones.
Another time two sisters on their 50s exchanged happy greetings for the first since their teens because one of them left to explore and got lost, only to be found by us by accident and being brought back just in time for thjem to say their goodbyes.
That time we had one girl on awbz but didn't have any girl on the village. I managed to find her using a horse and a lot of luck, brought her back and everyone was ecstatic for town not dying after all, the hope of our village, only for the girl to randomly die 2 minutes later. That amused resignation as we cleaned up the town in hopes an eve would take it over someday.
That time a stranger helped our mother survive in the wild and find us a town and then helped us settle in. To be hailed as a hero and mourned by our mother after she came back as my baby. The town thriving and the tale of the hero being passed to past generations. A grave with history, visited by many.
That moment when people get stabbed and already gave up, saying their goodbyes to their loved ones only to be save at the last minute. Being able to continue with their lives in everyone's company. Where a dark hole was forming, only the scar of the trauma remains, but a happy experience all the same.
As much as people like making many engines and then bragging about it, or making huge monuments, buildings or parks, the only lasting thing you can really take out of the game are the memories of the experiences you had.
Not saying we couldn't use more content here or there, but I think it's important to keep focus on what the game is for (at least for me).
Any future system might not be symmetrical by design but I would reckon it also needs to account for situations where griefers will always curse back when cursed by someone. They could do it in an attempt to also damage the original curser chances of being born in good towns.
Maybe we could have a sort of "curse score" check where people with more" curse score" lose in ability to apply restrictions on people with less "curse score".
A griefer, which is bound to have more overall "curse score" than the average player, would lose the ability to restrict other people to be born into the area/lineage/town/close family?.Maybe that would work well for the herd immunity part.
But then we could also have a sort of direct curse enforcement where it would always ban people from being children or mother from people they cursed or were cursed by.
Area or lineage bans can be dangerous. What if a griefer who has been cursed a lot slips into a mom? Suddenly a large part of the population would be banned from the town entirely. This could even kill towns on its own.
Maybe a check not only on the mother but also on the grandmother and brothers? It would probably minimize cascading effects but still allow some herd protection for newbies.
All those map-wide conditions are non-trivial to monitor. There are 500,000 map tiles to look at. Can't examine them all in one server timestep....
So for the time being, I'm hoping for a player stat to look at.
Unfortunately, I don't have average lineage depth as a stat. Of course, that stat would be low at the beginning, especially right after the Eve window closes. It would likely grow over time, then stabilize, then drop later.... maybe it's a good one?
You don't really need to track what is on the entire world.
Just make a table of timestamps where you save the last time someone:
1) created or fed wood to a fire;
2) forged something
3) fed, killed or sheared a sheep.
4) created rope
Then run a job every X time to check on those timestamps. If any are too old, chances are society collapsed since.
I quite like the idea of resetting after any number of X time since Y. Fire, sheep, milkweed, steel tools, etc.
When the rift was created and eve window introduced there was immetiately a plan among players on discord to purposedly kill as many families as possible after those 2 houurs as to make rift one family only, thus allowing cursing to be effective and allowing the comnunity to send griefers away to donkey town.
I would guess this had an impact on how fast families were removed from the game. On one hand griefers were killing people for the lulz and on the other "good players" were killing people on the short term to stop the griefers on the long term.
Having this end condition would amount to taunting griefers to end the rift. They were already bragging from triggering a rift reset following one of their raids in which many people died and were born at the same time triggering the children % condition.
Do people really need to be born when that happens though? There could be a prompt saying no available families. Maybe a retry or autoretry.
It is a bit oitside the scope but maybe players could wait a bit to be born? Like when playersare forced born into noms despite their cooldowns.
How about blocking players from being born not only if they were cursed by the mom but also if the majority of the family cursed them? A sort of group immunity.
If this new system works well it will trigger an explosion in griefing feral eves. So thats something to also keep in mind.
Newbie players will end up being griefer breeders. (edit: lets be very careful about making new players non appealing to normal players)
I don't dislike the idea, its a bit like the "avoid" feature in overwatch which I also like and feel it works. They only have three avoid slots to avoid something like what you said and the avoids auto expire after a week.
Maybe you could allow players to clear all the curses they did? zand/or have them expire after a long time, like 3 months or so.
I wouldn't mind having everything, including hunger rate, slowing down a bit. You usually have to choose between socializing and working. If there was more "dead time" between actions it could potentially increase society interaction between players.
Difference is that in rust it is much easier to build than to destroy. FC even had to add timers to prevent players from building in response to raids. It is the inverse in ohol.
Killing all sheep. takes a few seconds and clicks. To get sheep I'll probably need to plant mw. Make arrow, rope, prepare food for sheep, search for it, wait for baby, kill it, drop bow, carry baby all the way back, feed it and then go back for bow and back to town again.
Using up all milkweed only takes picking it up, making ropes, tying ropes to long shafts, and cleaning any seeds from bowls. 10 seconds is enough most of the time. To fix it one nedds to go search for milkweed (good luck with that) get seeds back, spend soil, water and time, hope you have hoes, plant everything and wait. Then stand guard to make sure no one picks milkweed in the wrong state so you can get seeds.
Destroying forges and furnaces only takes a pickaxe laying around and a few clicks. if you then also make ovens out of the extra adobe on forge area and pickaxe that you effectively delete adobe. To fix that people will need to search around for clay which is usually far from town, find straw or tule and bring it back. This is usually 10+ adobe to fix what was destroyed. Griefer can even then use pickaxe to block entrances by making ovens and taking the pickaxe with him.
A single griefer can do all of the above and more in 60 seconds. There is effectively no counter. Griefing is too easy and effortless, fixing griefing too labor intensive.
Give us more information about who is born among us and we can then deal with it ourselves by prevening serial griefers from even playing on our town.
I have pretty good ping and I still get the kill glitch. I stab someone and they kind of teleport/move fast elsewhere and don't appear bloody. If not for the sound effect of stabbing I would assume no stabbing had occurred. Things usually look fine before the stabbing itself.
My guess is some actual bug on the code, or too much work needed on a single frame and client glitches somehow?
I would rather use a "money" resource for a sort of collective learning of recipes. Maybe a family could "research" recipes somehow based on how much work they did.
Have you tried using fences?
Maybe an Eve Window could be open once per real life day for 1 or 2 hours instead of constantly?
That would freshen things up while keeping the eve chaos confined.
lmao
What a week indeed.
Well done Jason!