Jason, please.

Morti · 2018-08-12 11:56:24

Whatever you have to do, just stop this.

Give us a more reasonable option or make graves unusable as walls.

You know how it's a good thing that you made a game where people said I love you to one another?

These gravestone pens are the opposite.

One of the things that makes us great is our memory; our ability to maintain and retell memories of one another.
Our respect for life, new and old, is integral to that. Maybe you don't understand yet, but you will when more of the people you know and love start passing away.

If you make simple walls easier to make, it can also get rid of the unattractive pit pens.

Maybe you can come up with a better solution, I just don't want to see this in a game where people should be caring about one another.

Neo · 2018-08-12 12:03:33

I can see your point though, Not because Grave pens are disrespectful to dead but because it's so ugly.

Btw was that screenshot taken in the Magi Town, That looks like me.

Last edited by Neo (2018-08-12 12:09:30)

carbon · 2018-08-12 15:25:32

It's interesting that people are using meta-game mechanics to exploit certain features. But yeah, certain unintended use for objects should be fixed in the future.

pein · 2018-08-12 18:57:47

how to be respectful:
convert a tortilla station into a grave block cause getting your own stones would take time, but hey someone puts flat rocks near the wheat field for no reason
use up the brand new shovel the dig graves in the spot they died so others can remember them, each time they cant find an empty tile
fill biomes with graves, and let people starve walking trough it
make grave blocks with no way to get anywhere close to any of it, in the usable areas with water and good temperature

ThatOneGuy · 2018-08-12 19:32:50

i think thats my grave lol

happynova · 2018-08-12 20:33:00

I wouldn't mind at all for my grave to be useful to my descendants. But then, I'm seriously considering leaving my body to science IRL.

annjust · 2018-08-13 04:29:24

pein wrote:

how to be respectful:
convert a tortilla station into a grave block cause getting your own stones would take time, but hey someone puts flat rocks near the wheat field for no reason
use up the brand new shovel the dig graves in the spot they died so others can remember them, each time they cant find an empty tile
fill biomes with graves, and let people starve walking trough it
make grave blocks with no way to get anywhere close to any of it, in the usable areas with water and good temperature

Really good point!

Morti · 2018-08-13 11:33:21

Pein, it's not about what the inexperienced players do.
It's about what the seasoned players do that set the precedence for new players to follow.
Players who are going to work hard and repeat the successes they've witnessed from others.

I know there are people who are using shovels to bury others wherever their bodies fall.
They can learn the error of their ways with time.
So too will those who take the flat stones from the work stations and use them as gravestones.

New people want to learn.
Old people don't want to change.

This game has selling points for good people; people who want to care for one another via their labors.
We'd do this more often IRL if it wasn't for the prevalence of games and all the laws and litigations.
We were born into a world where the arcade was the place to be, or we were plopped in front of a console or a computer and the easiest, most enjoyable thing to do was to play games. So we became good at them.

Then there is the world of the banks, the courthouses, the real estate agents, the police and the governments.
These old institutions which individually may seem necessary in their own right, but collectively, give new people of this world, the sense that there is nothing left to do on this planet. It can seem like everything is owned, everything is monitored, every action restricted. So what do people with good intentions do? Where do they go to get the sense that they are being productive?

And so we make and play games, games to fill all the niches of desire we have which we cannot express so easily IRL due to all these institutions. We make farms in games, we build cities in games, we explore the galaxy in games, and we raise families in games. And here we have a multiplayer game that blends survival, crafting and farming with parenting, resource management and even the memorialization of the deceased.

Maybe if this game was One Hour One Year and after 60 hours or so of playing a character you passed away, people would have stronger bonds to the players in the game, but as we've seen even 60 minutes is enough time for people to form strong enough bonds that they wish to care for their family members remains and preserve their memories long after that player has moved on to another life. That level of compassion is still here and it's something very special for many of us. Just as special as the love your mother and family give you when you are a relatively helpless infant. Combine that with the current potential to be reborn into a city and to be able to revisit the site of your grave where your children memorialized you, and it can be even more powerful.

Bear in mind, some of the greatest civilizations, the greatest inventions and the greatest stories of mankind, are centered around the memorials of the people who cared for and lead their people to a higher level of modernization. Whether it was via agriculture, conquest or some philosophical revolution, through honoring them, those people solidified their places in history.

However, your mother doesn't have to be Cleopatra, to be deserving of her place in the history of your village, just good enough that you are willing to forge a few implements, gather skewers and go through a few small, but meaningful steps to set her place in stone.

Valences42 · 2018-08-13 12:36:06

I love your posts Morti. I wondered where you had gone. Good to see you back.

jasonrohrer · 2018-08-13 15:40:58

This is a tough one to solve. People will always find the cheapest way to do something.

It's really hard for me to make things non-blocking that are tall like that, or that are literally a hole in the ground, because it looks very strange when someone walks over it.

I haven't seen the grave walls myself, but lots of trash pit pens. Not thrilled about it, but a trash pit is so cheap to make.

I see that the innovation with the grave is that they can be "opened" like a gate by picking up the stone. I could make all graves blocking, which would at least prevent the door thing.

carbon · 2018-08-13 16:01:14

jasonrohrer wrote:

This is a tough one to solve. People will always find the cheapest way to do something.
It's really hard for me to make things non-blocking that are tall like that, or that are literally a hole in the ground, because it looks very strange when someone walks over it.
I haven't seen the grave walls myself, but lots of trash pit pens. Not thrilled about it, but a trash pit is so cheap to make.
I see that the innovation with the grave is that they can be "opened" like a gate by picking up the stone. I could make all graves blocking, which would at least prevent the door thing.

Does it need to be a traditional looking gravestone? Why not a grave marker/plaque that sits on the ground? That way, it'll be non-blocking and people can walk over it.

As for the pit fencing, would it be possible to add a moat/trench or something?

AltyBagU · 2018-08-14 00:16:00

How about more of a wired fence that you can cross over but you will be slowed down when going over it to simulate going over a real fence. That way people would get a feel of a real fence but still have practical way to get in and out. You would also have to put animal's on another movement system so they are not allowed to go over it which could be a little bit of a pain if you don't have something like that set up.

Maybe each iron could make... idk 4 or 5 per ore. Then you need to stick the poles in of course but will be worth it and people would actually use it.

pein · 2018-08-14 06:48:27

ok stop there

you shouldnt remove something because it doesnt look good to some players
lot of us are 'function over form' people and we are the ones who build working societies, you can teach all the people, still the experienced people will do all the job for generations to enjoy
you created unique and interesting mechanics, and most of complainers never ever made one livestock pen in the game, and even if they did, they dont see that it gets ruined by the first kid who dosent know how a fence works

pits are the most effective against griefers
also currently from all blocking tiles the order is:
fixed grave- permanent, holds item
rose bush-permanent
ancient stone wall- permanent after 10 hours
stone wall- can be griefed by pickaxe
pits with 1 item inside- requires 19 items thrown in to be ruined
corner fences and pits- requires shovel to be ruined

based on game mechanics: a sheep without lamb will follow you, a sheep with lamb run away from you
so airlocks never worked, i seen people release 5 sheep without wanting to, and newbies do it all the time, based on a normal life, 2-4 decent players live to 60, do all the work and 60 players run around, die and mess up everything for them, so not that the game is hard but managing to live with others, teaching them, repairing their mistakes takes a lot of time, and its not fun
restricting acces with doors and chests was nice, but the complains of noobs made it worse just like the case of killings
cracking a door takes less time than making a room and locking it
killing a griefer makes you likely to die just because people want your gear and got a reason to kill you, and get away with it
and both this things lost their purpose because of the changes

while i can do the basic steel tools in 10 minutes, sometimes people mess up everything and i die before making a shovel, and its a struggle to make an axe, so the problem is not making an axe is too hard, working with newbies is too hard

fences: i know its intended to use but it never been a good solution, tried it, we even tried such a mass teamwork what wouldnt be possible in most games
4 people bringing straight branches from 4-5 biomes, its still not enough to make a decent size pen 5x5 requires way too many of them and wont last 2 generations cause people make tongs or short shaft out of it
and putting them diagonal saves up from people accidentally picking them up but it looks ugly

in real life i got some experience with it, you make much longer fences, like 3-4 meters and doesnt have to be good quality, just prevent sheep to push it out, they are made of low quality boards, generally the edge of the tree trunk and never meant to last for years

so the only solution would be to make fences viable is to decrease the cost, and make it harder to remove
i can imagine fences 4 tile long, 1 wide, 2 players needed to put it up and two-three players needed to remove it by holding both sides and digging it out, the cost should be 4 long shafts, some boards and using an adze on them, making it 1x4, then only 4 of this fences could make a pen of 3x3 in size
you could make an item based on players discovery, basically the V shape front door, which could be built in whole, not tile by tile

then there is the entrance
airlocks never work cause animals follow or run from you, and fully enclosed pens kill people by not having free tiles
also needing someone to open and close it every time you enter makes it very bad solution

so we got corner entrances and side entrances, people use corner entrance cause it requires less work, which is silly cause i made pens of 150+ interior size under one life, making a proper front entrance needs 4 extra tiles
also you can actually throw lambs into it, from inside, while corner entrances only from outside which is useless, cause with the same work you can leave them outside on a tile and despawns
sheep cannot change direction of movement once it moves and cannot stand on items, so an entrance is part of a pen
you need to replace it, with a new item which restricts animals but allows players to pass trough or leave it as it is

pit pens came with the problem people tossing lambs into them, so isnt ideal solution
yes you can tell them not to but the damage is done
as for the look of them, well you could modify it to have seamless overlap with other pits, creating a moat, which isnt too realsitic, sheep wont jump into pits but they would push each other into it, but at least moats would look better, basically same as floor tiles and walls, when there are tiles next to a wall, the tile fills the space next to the wall
a pit could look round or square 3d downward, and when there are two next to each other, they would merge and have empty inside and only corners would look different
seems like people teaching others to do so cause is too common
also that they need to dig graves in blocks cause uses less space
it just tells me that you never intended to finish that grave if you got no free tile next to it, so you didnt even know who it is
truth is everybody wont fit in a graveyard, there isnt enough space, there isnt enough time and information to carry every bone the same place, and wont be enough flat rocks close enough

by changing the compost recipe, you made it harder to reach and more important, as soil runs out, the random maps need to meet a lot of requirements
first it was just soil and water
now its desert, water, soil, branches and possibly iron vein close by, while having a big savanna too within 50 tiles

by not having one of these the civilization will fail and most of us just quits and newbies struggle to survive just to end up realizing it cannot be saved
i dont need to struggle to see if something wont work out

the innovation with graves is not opening and closing, a 3x3 middle offset can be made to an entrance
GGO
OgG
GGO
G-grave with stone
O-open
g-grave with no stone instead of filled pit/home marker

its just someone will always make graves why not use them for something? like a pen or a wall against animals

and tells a lot about respect, that this grave diggers break the shovel and the civilization can be ruined by them, just because they respect the dead more than the living
a shovel is needed for stumps, wells and a pen, if you wanna dig graves make your own

possible solutions:
1. make the pits look better by joining two or more when they are placed next to each other

2. instead of pits making a 'wall' around a 'room' make pits be the room requiring no wall

it would take a new item, which lets you inside a hole digged in the floor, but doesnt let animals out

3. make fences cheaper and longer 2-4 tiles long or add an entrance fence element, so people dont have to make it tile by tile

4. another form of cheap material which blocks tiles: sacks of sand or just sand piles, would make more sense to block sheep by stacking soil upward not digging them down and would be the same speed like digging it out

until we get materials like glass, cause glass rooms would look dope even if it would take forging them and converting them into panels

and some other related issues:
you made steel tools go into pits, as we had many and you decided we cant reuse it at that time
after you made it possible to put them together and gain back some steel scrap you forgot they still go into pits
this is a case of 'you shouldnt do x' which you wanted to get rid of, so please dont let broken steel tools go into pits

animals should come with a downside
while cleaning up dead lambs is a downside (domestic bison makes a lot of calfs, and when they die they dont decay)
at the start of the game sheep was eating the carrot, and it was the only plant
now that we got more plants, you should add that lose sheep and other animals destroy every planted crop, or just some of it, for example sheep and pork should eat potato, maybe cows eat berry bushes, goose eat corn fields
i dont want to be the game harder, i want it to be balanced, and this would be a realistic mechanic which is nice gameplay element

letters- they also should cost less to be viable, its nice to be realistic and have different ways to create different letters, but they shouldnt cost more than 2 saplings, for example letter 'E' made of 4 letter stocks would make it 4x the size than other letters, let us gain back some of the parts at least, half letter stock or so

lastly we would need dirt roads which are just stakes and shovel maybe, this would allow us to show the way to things, space out the base, allow placing down items, and blocking people plant on front of the kiln, block extending berry field, chucking down home markers in usable tiles, etc.
the other thing could be more boards from trees, and more uses for boards, a tree which covers 6 tiles has one butt log? if it would have 3 then we could cover an entire city without going too far, also wood tiles should prevent planting stuff

so yeah, all this would take a whole update on its own, nerfing graves and pits would make composting impossible, and Morti could teach kids running from bush to bush

Anshin · 2018-08-14 11:02:36

FREE RANGE FARMING.

That is all.

TAIOAN · 2018-08-15 06:19:52

I gonna make a grave pen.

Trick · 2018-08-15 11:37:49

Rose bushes should decay like berries or something (maybe shovel and axe to get them out or something?). It's nonsense that a person can grief with some fucking rose bushes.

I was in a city where some idiot planted a bunch of bushes at the doors of the buildings (ancient walls) so no one could get in. It trapped a bunch of valuable resources (horse and carts, tools, clothes, etc.), and was just beyond annoying.

EVERYTHING should be un-doable.

Tea · 2018-08-15 12:47:30

Trick wrote:

Rose bushes should decay like berries or something (maybe shovel and axe to get them out or something?). It's nonsense that a person can grief with some fucking rose bushes.
I was in a city where some idiot planted a bunch of bushes at the doors of the buildings (ancient walls) so no one could get in. It trapped a bunch of valuable resources (horse and carts, tools, clothes, etc.), and was just beyond annoying.
EVERYTHING should be un-doable.

It would be great to be able to dig them up when there are no roses for example, a bit like berry bushes.

pein · 2018-08-15 15:00:12

the answer is filled pits in front of the doors, you can put tiles on it first, but if you make a room, you should really fill a pit in front of it, this will mean that the door can always be opened from outside, so you just increased from 1 to 5 roses, put 3 and its extra 2 for the griefer

thats what im talking about
permanent tiles which prevent planting/building
or doors should come with a tile in front/back of them blocking building on them, blocking animals (cause it still needs a bush to do so), cause i dont know any reason why would you put a wall in front or back of the door other than griefing
or let us attach a carpet to a door
the rare case is directional door when you want to allow to be closed from inside or outside without having a key but you get what i mean

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-08-12 11:56:24

Jason, please.

#2 2018-08-12 12:03:33

Re: Jason, please.

#3 2018-08-12 15:25:32

Re: Jason, please.

#4 2018-08-12 18:57:47

Re: Jason, please.

#5 2018-08-12 19:32:50

Re: Jason, please.

#6 2018-08-12 20:33:00

Re: Jason, please.

#7 2018-08-13 04:29:24

Re: Jason, please.

#8 2018-08-13 11:33:21

Re: Jason, please.

#9 2018-08-13 12:36:06

Re: Jason, please.

#10 2018-08-13 15:40:58

Re: Jason, please.

#11 2018-08-13 16:01:14

Re: Jason, please.

#12 2018-08-14 00:16:00

Re: Jason, please.

#13 2018-08-14 06:48:27

Re: Jason, please.

#14 2018-08-14 11:02:36

Re: Jason, please.

#15 2018-08-15 06:19:52

Re: Jason, please.

#16 2018-08-15 11:37:49

Re: Jason, please.

#17 2018-08-15 12:47:30

Re: Jason, please.

#18 2018-08-15 15:00:12

Re: Jason, please.

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