List of infinite, zero-input food sources?

jasonrohrer · 2018-11-26 17:33:42

I've heard a lot of complaints about bananas being endless food sources (they are supposed to be balanced by yellow fever, but apparently, that's not enough).

But I'd like to fix them all in one swoop, so what else?

What about wild goose eggs? The idea there is that they are a source for domestic geese, and domestic laying.... maybe the wild ones are laying too frequently?

I think that wild berries and wild rabbits are slow enough, and the rest of the wild foods don't respawn at all...

Am I missing anything?

Roblor · 2018-11-26 17:40:04

Like we're gonna tell

Twisted · 2018-11-26 17:51:33

I think other wild food sources are fine.

The problem with bananas is not that they are an endless food source, that part of it is great. The problem with bananas is that they are so common and plentiful that they're several orders of magnitude better than any other food in the game. If you wanted to, you could easily survive for generations on bananas alone, without ever having to farm or cook anything else.

Mosquitoes alone are not enough to balance this, as you can easily avoid them by standing on an item. You can even cover the entire jungle in bananas and make it very safe to be in.

Ellesanna · 2018-11-26 17:53:39

Right now, I think we should keep the bananas as they are and focus on updating other stuff. I was able to get a good base set up because I had the bananas. One thing that I struggled with in the past when trying to get a base running was that I was too slow to get everything done that needed to be done. Juggling babies while trying to get a fire-drill and ovens and farms started up was extremely difficult and the berries ran out so quick. The bananas offer me a way to raise some kids who can actually help me set up a base and farm outside the jungle without depleting the area of food and dooming everyone to starvation.
Maybe I'm just bad, but the game is already at a really high difficulty level for me. What I would personally rather see right now rather than change the game to increase its difficulty is more expansions on the tech tree. Civilizations hit a technological 'brick wall' at some point and slowly, but surely, deplete the land of its resources as you run out of ponds to build wells on and trees to cut down. Maybe a pump to bring water from the ground? Or more ways to get iron, a rarity nowadays. The game is already hard, add some things that make it easier in the technological section and then nerf natural resources like bananas.

EDIT: Also, maybe add stuff that helps with civilizations migrating! That could fix the water problem as well. Make it so caravans of nomads can exists or roads of trades between towns happen, like the good old days.

Last edited by Ellesanna (2018-11-26 17:57:43)

happynova · 2018-11-26 18:01:15

What's funny about the yellow fever is that I don't find it particularly discouraging when it comes to picking bananas. It's not too hard to find reasonably safe banana trees on the edge of the jungle, or in relatively open areas where mosquitoes aren't too hard to avoid, especially if you can stand on something.

But they're an unbelievable nuisance when a necessary trek to gather resources has a giant jungle in the way. Especially when the bugs hide behind a tree, causing you to lose your basket of precious, irreplaceable iron, so that if you survive, you then have to go back in to look for it and very likely get stung again... and again. (Yeah, I have a serious new contender for most pointless and frustrating death I've had in the game.)

So, the bugs are definitely a challenge, but maybe not one that quite serves as a counterbalance to the thing it was supposed to.

gabal · 2018-11-26 18:10:55

Well - bananas are really an outlier as they are plentiful and add a bunch of food. They are cactus fruit on steroids - they are more common then cacti and spawn multiples of fruits instead of just one cactus fruit so you really never run out of bananas.

Goose eggs are fine I think as you are using those same ponds for water and relatively soon you are draining them and using them for wells so that food source is eliminated in a generation or two.

Floofy · 2018-11-26 18:34:57

Yes in theory a good player can EASILY live infinitely in the jungle. Heck, while alive, a good player can easily also manage to keep other people alive by bringing all the bananas and keep the others in a safe spot. But in practice, once the said good player dies, the banana civilization usually collapse. The newbies won't resist the urge to move around and will die to yellow fever, and some good players will be bored of this play style and will move to other biomes.

And yes, eggs has a similar issue. If you establish a camp close to 10+ ponds, you can easily live for an infinite ammount of time there from omellettes.

I do not think you can live off the other ressources.

Floofy · 2018-11-26 18:38:18

gabal wrote:

Well - bananas are really an outlier as they are plentiful and add a bunch of food. They are cactus fruit on steroids - they are more common then cacti and spawn multiples of fruits instead of just one cactus fruit so you really never run out of bananas.
Goose eggs are fine I think as you are using those same ponds for water and relatively soon you are draining them and using them for wells so that food source is eliminated in a generation or two.

The point is, if there is enough ponds nearby (10+), a civilization could easily decide not to drain any water and live off omelettes (as long as they aren' too many, and keep a good temperature.

Floofy · 2018-11-26 18:40:52

Ellesanna wrote:

Right now, I think we should keep the bananas as they are and focus on updating other stuff. I was able to get a good base set up because I had the bananas. One thing that I struggled with in the past when trying to get a base running was that I was too slow to get everything done that needed to be done. Juggling babies while trying to get a fire-drill and ovens and farms started up was extremely difficult and the berries ran out so quick. The bananas offer me a way to raise some kids who can actually help me set up a base and farm outside the jungle without depleting the area of food and dooming everyone to starvation.
Maybe I'm just bad, but the game is already at a really high difficulty level for me. What I would personally rather see right now rather than change the game to increase its difficulty is more expansions on the tech tree. Civilizations hit a technological 'brick wall' at some point and slowly, but surely, deplete the land of its resources as you run out of ponds to build wells on and trees to cut down. Maybe a pump to bring water from the ground? Or more ways to get iron, a rarity nowadays. The game is already hard, add some things that make it easier in the technological section and then nerf natural resources like bananas.
EDIT: Also, maybe add stuff that helps with civilizations migrating! That could fix the water problem as well. Make it so caravans of nomads can exists or roads of trades between towns happen, like the good old days.

I think the key is not a direct nerf to bananas, but rather, "long term" nerf to them. For example, simply make bananas not respawn.

Lily · 2018-11-26 18:44:17

There is a simple solution to bananas. Just have them decay in 5 minutes like berries. Or what would be cool is if they turned brown and mushy after 5 minutes, then decay after an additional 5 minutes. I think if you remove the ability to stockpile them, so the person has to keep going in and out of the forest to eat one banana at a time, that really balances it out. Also bananas are known for going bad quickly theses days so I think people can relate.

Eggs are not really free, since they require kindling, which requires an axe(thus iron) or a hatchet(thus string and a rock). Actually, I would check the code to make sure the timer on the hot flat rock doesn't reset every time you put an egg on it. I looked it up and it says the hot rock lasts 2 minutes, but it feels like it lasts way longer than that. I swear it feels like it can last up to like 5 minutes or something. So it might be constantly getting reset all the time. If it is, that is your problem there, because instead of getting 2 minutes you get an infinite hot rock as long as you drop an egg onto it every minute or so.

Twisted · 2018-11-26 18:45:00

Floofy wrote:

I think the key is not a direct nerf to bananas, but rather, "long term" nerf to them. For example, simply make bananas not respawn.

I personally don't think making bananas not respawn is a good solution. Increasing their respawn timer, sure, but they should still respawn from time to time.

Keks · 2018-11-26 18:46:29

Could we instead have a way to dump Bowl of Parlm Kernels and Bowl of Sulfur .

It is currently so easy to grief by filling all avaible bowls with Palm Kernels,since you can only empty them by putting them into the rubber bucket - Which can only be achieved when you get a Knife. But early villages have no way to emptying the bowls and they become useless.

Just like Salt water bowls.

fatalwolf · 2018-11-26 18:54:35

I find wild goose eggs to be fine. Since the pond can be used up and made into wells while banana trees can not. The problem with bananas is that the risk is low compared to the reward. Maybe allowing boars to spawn in the jungle will balance it out.

CrazyEddie · 2018-11-26 18:57:29

Prior to bananas, getting a settlement up and running was a knife-edge challenge (which is great!). A hopeless task for a newbie, but just barely doable with some experience. The main dynamic is that until you get a well-run farm going, you have JUST ENOUGH natural food to carry you through - but you can feel the time pressure as you see it running out. You have to go further afield to get what you need, which itself adds to the time pressure since it takes you longer to get anything done.

Every now and then you run across a sizeable cache of food - a cluster of cacti with fruit, a new grasslands area with berry bushes - and a wave of relief passes over you as you realize you've bought a little more time. Getting the kiln up and making plates opens up omelettes and marks a major milestone; you're not out of the woods, and it has trade-offs, but it represents a big breakthrough and grants a well-earned respite.

This is awesome gameplay.

Bananas are so filling, so plentiful, and so quick to regrow that it basically takes all the pressure off. It's no longer a knife-edge challenge. And you can take advantage of it immediately without any precursor technology (like plates). This is not awesome gameplay.

I wouldn't want to see a nerf to berries, cacti, eggs, and rabbits, or to the quantities of the non-respawning foods. They seem to be just right. Bananas are the outlier to be fixed. I like that they're high-reward and high-risk, or at least are supposed to be. But we the players have figured out how to minimize the risk while reaping the reward, which makes the mosquitos annoying and disruptive rather than dangerous. I'm not sure how to fix that.

Dodge · 2018-11-26 18:58:45

Rabbits, but that's a catch 22 atm, nerfing them means less food but not possible since they are used for one of the most valuable item in the game (backpack) and you need 4.5 rabbits for just one backpack, which means a lot of meat for just one backpack

Big villages are usually a good indicator of what is too abundant, rabbit meat, eggs etc

Regarding eggs imo the "wild eggs" are too abundant but the "domestic eggs" from goose are not viable at all and a waste (one corn for one egg + the process of drying corn, smashing in bowl and feeding to goose)

Twisted · 2018-11-26 19:00:09

CrazyEddie wrote:

Prior to bananas, getting a settlement up and running was a knife-edge challenge (which is great!). A hopeless task for a newbie, but just barely doable with some experience. The main dynamic is that until you get a well-run farm going, you have JUST ENOUGH natural food to carry you through - but you can feel the time pressure as you see it running out. You have to go further afield to get what you need, which itself adds to the time pressure since it takes you longer to get anything done.
Every now and then you run across a sizeable cache of food - a cluster of cacti with fruit, a new grasslands area with berry bushes - and a wave of relief passes over you as you realize you've bought a little more time. Getting the kiln up and making plates opens up omelettes and marks a major milestone; you're not out of the woods, and it has trade-offs, but it represents a big breakthrough and grants a well-earned respite.
This is awesome gameplay.
Bananas are so filling, so plentiful, and so quick to regrow that it basically takes all the pressure off. It's no longer a knife-edge challenge. And you can take advantage of it immediately without any precursor technology (like plates). This is not awesome gameplay.
I wouldn't want to see a nerf to berries, cacti, eggs, and rabbits, or to the quantities of the non-respawning foods. They seem to be just right. Bananas are the outlier to be fixed. I like that they're high-reward and high-risk, or at least are supposed to be. But we the players have figured out how to minimize the risk while reaping the reward, which makes the mosquitos annoying and disruptive rather than dangerous. I'm not sure how to fix that.

+1

Dodge · 2018-11-26 19:04:00

Lily wrote:

Eggs are not really free, since they require kindling, which requires an axe(thus iron) or a hatchet(thus string and a rock). Actually, I would check the code to make sure the timer on the hot flat rock doesn't reset every time you put an egg on it. I looked it up and it says the hot rock lasts 2 minutes, but it feels like it lasts way longer than that. I swear it feels like it can last up to like 5 minutes or something. So it might be constantly getting reset all the time. If it is, that is your problem there, because instead of getting 2 minutes you get an infinite hot rock as long as you drop an egg onto it every minute or so.

The timer resets each time you put a egg on it.

"So it might be constantly getting reset all the time. If it is, that is your problem there"

How is that going to reduce the ammount of eggs?, if anything it will mean more eggs occupying the tiles, and more new players killing the hot coals of the main fire with a flat rock

CrazyEddie · 2018-11-26 19:07:27

Keks wrote:

Could we instead have a way to dump Bowl of Parlm Kernels https://onetech.info/static/sprites/obj_2146.png and Bowl of Sulfur https://onetech.info/static/sprites/obj_2138.png.
It is currently so easy to grief by filling all avaible bowls with Palm Kernels,since you can only empty them by putting them into the rubber bucket - Which can only be achieved when you get a Knife. But early villages have no way to emptying the bowls and they become useless.
Just like Salt water bowls.

My number one pet peeve in this game is Bowl of Effectively Useless Crap (Most Especially Salt Water). I hate it even more than Two Dozen Milkweed Seeds Scattered Everywhere. Please give us a way to dump out the contents, even at the cost of wasting them.

Lily · 2018-11-26 19:11:13

Dodge wrote:

The timer resets each time you put a egg on it.
"So it might be constantly getting reset all the time. If it is, that is your problem there"
How is that going to reduce the ammount of eggs?, if anything it will mean more eggs occupying the tiles, and more new players killing the hot coals of the main fire with a flat rock

Well the problem wasn't the amount of food, it is the zero-input part. Eggs require resources from the fire, if the fire is infinite because you place an egg on it every minute, then you are no longer really paying resources to get the food. Also it takes out all the management aspects of it.

If the hot rock is 2 minutes flat, then it requires resources, and organization and item management. So while there might be a lot of eggs, it isn't a free meal, it takes effort, planning and organization.

Keks · 2018-11-26 19:19:59

CrazyEddie wrote:

Keks wrote:
Could we instead have a way to dump Bowl of Parlm Kernels https://onetech.info/static/sprites/obj_2146.png and Bowl of Sulfur https://onetech.info/static/sprites/obj_2138.png.
It is currently so easy to grief by filling all avaible bowls with Palm Kernels,since you can only empty them by putting them into the rubber bucket - Which can only be achieved when you get a Knife. But early villages have no way to emptying the bowls and they become useless.
Just like Salt water bowls.
My number one pet peeve in this game is Bowl of Effectively Useless Crap (Most Especially Salt Water). I hate it even more than Two Dozen Milkweed Seeds Scattered Everywhere. Please give us a way to dump out the contents, even at the cost of wasting them.

Yeah,it's the worst. I wish I could just dump them into a Small Trash Pit
Though that would require a shovel. So perhaps just an option to dump them onto the ground and the content despawns after a minute or so

CrazyEddie · 2018-11-26 19:24:49

Having the hot-rock timer not get reset with each new omelette would be a good nerf. It would require better management and coordination of the cooking station, which is a good thing. Well-run camps in the early pottery stage would get a bonanza of food to carry them into large-scale farming; poorly-run camps will scramble around frantically trying to get a paltry few omelettes made while chewing through their kindling.

This is good.

And it ought to be technically straight-forward to implement, right? Use the same timer mechanism that ovens, kilns, and forges use?

And while it's possible for a decent-sized civilization to subsist on wild eggs alone, in practice this never happens. People farm, and farms drain the ponds. Eggs are an early-game food, then they're gone. Sometimes you see them later but no one bothers cooking them; pies are a better use of plates, stew is a better use of coals, and the ponds are too far away to collect eggs in quantity.

betame · 2018-11-26 19:25:58

Yellow fever is only lethal to the starving, kids, elderly, and those WELL-CLOTHED as discussed here.
It kills everyone except its banana-munching targets.

Lily wrote:

There is a simple solution to bananas. Just have them decay in 5 minutes like berries. Or what would be cool is if they turned brown and mushy after 5 minutes, then decay after an additional 5 minutes. I think if you remove the ability to stockpile them, so the person has to keep going in and out of the forest to eat one banana at a time, that really balances it out. Also bananas are known for going bad quickly theses days so I think people can relate.
Eggs are not really free, since they require kindling, which requires an axe(thus iron) or a hatchet(thus string and a rock). Actually, I would check the code to make sure the timer on the hot flat rock doesn't reset every time you put an egg on it. I looked it up and it says the hot rock lasts 2 minutes, but it feels like it lasts way longer than that. I swear it feels like it can last up to like 5 minutes or something. So it might be constantly getting reset all the time. If it is, that is your problem there, because instead of getting 2 minutes you get an infinite hot rock as long as you drop an egg onto it every minute or so.

Fully agree. I once made a food-secure road out of bananas.

But it does seem strange that omelettes are more filling than complex tacos/burritos among other higher tech foods.

Last edited by betame (2018-11-26 19:30:03)

Potjeh · 2018-11-26 19:35:10

IMO wild bananas should have a ridiculously long refill timer (4h or so), but we should be able to grow domestic bananas with much shorter refill timer (like 15min or so).

Sasooli · 2018-11-26 19:40:07

CrazyEddie wrote:

Having the hot-rock timer not get reset with each new omelette would be a good nerf. It would require better management and coordination of the cooking station, which is a good thing. Well-run camps in the early pottery stage would get a bonanza of food to carry them into large-scale farming; poorly-run camps will scramble around frantically trying to get a paltry few omelettes made while chewing through their kindling.
This is good.
And it ought to be technically straight-forward to implement, right? Use the same timer mechanism that ovens, kilns, and forges use?

It couldn't be done the same way they work, because with the oven/kiln/forge you just 'touch' the item to it and the oven/kiln/forge is unchanged. With eggs the hot rock gets turned into a hot rock with egg, so to have the timer not reset it would need to remember how much time was left on the empty hot rock and copy that.

I'm not saying it would be hard, just it couldn't use the same mechanism as the oven/etc.

Matbat · 2018-11-26 19:41:43

Banana trees - have to be cut down to harvest, can carry the bunch, single bananas decay.
Banana trees regrow after 20 min, and their fruit comes after another 20.

Turkeys - half all sources of food from turkey (turkey and soup)
Currently one or two turkeys can supply long enough for the hunter to travel to far away and hunt dozens more.

Omelets - Food given reduced by 20-50%
A single egg shouldn't feed that much.
Maybe they're layed in batches, but take a lot longer to come back.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-11-26 17:33:42

List of infinite, zero-input food sources?

#2 2018-11-26 17:40:04

Re: List of infinite, zero-input food sources?

#3 2018-11-26 17:51:33

Re: List of infinite, zero-input food sources?

#4 2018-11-26 17:53:39

Re: List of infinite, zero-input food sources?

#5 2018-11-26 18:01:15

Re: List of infinite, zero-input food sources?

#6 2018-11-26 18:10:55

Re: List of infinite, zero-input food sources?

#7 2018-11-26 18:34:57

Re: List of infinite, zero-input food sources?

#8 2018-11-26 18:38:18

Re: List of infinite, zero-input food sources?

#9 2018-11-26 18:40:52

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#10 2018-11-26 18:44:17

Re: List of infinite, zero-input food sources?

#11 2018-11-26 18:45:00

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#12 2018-11-26 18:46:29

Re: List of infinite, zero-input food sources?

#13 2018-11-26 18:54:35

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#14 2018-11-26 18:57:29

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#15 2018-11-26 18:58:45

Re: List of infinite, zero-input food sources?

#16 2018-11-26 19:00:09

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#17 2018-11-26 19:04:00

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#18 2018-11-26 19:07:27

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#19 2018-11-26 19:11:13

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#20 2018-11-26 19:19:59

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#21 2018-11-26 19:24:49

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#22 2018-11-26 19:25:58

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#23 2018-11-26 19:35:10

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#24 2018-11-26 19:40:07

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