Just Why?

Solgryn · 2018-12-30 05:36:12

The last time Apocalypse was added the community didn't like it for a reason. I understand Jason has concerns with the tech tree being climbed too quickly and making the game less enjoyable, but that shouldn't be an excuse to punish the players for it.

The main message I got from the trailer was this: Live life as well as you can, help others and pass down your progress to your next generations. Ultimately connecting everyone into one community of friendship and family. Experience and explore the world around you and have adventures with your friends.

Adding an endtower to the game is ultimately encouraging griefing and murder. This is like the complete opposite of how the game I pictured was going to turn out. If you have that big a problem with advanced towns then just do a manual reset every month. Why compel the player base to murder each other and destroy the work they spent countless lives working on? Splitting the community into: people who enjoy progressing in the game vs people who enjoy trolling and ruining the experience for others.

There is already plenty of griefers in the game as is. Since the endtower was released server 1 has been almost unplayable with the amount of people murdering and secretly sabotaging towns by hiding tools, killing sheep pens and so forth. Obviously there is no escape from this but why add content that actually enables people to do all of that every 24 hours?

The game should be about helping each other not tearing each other apart.

P.S. Eve-chaining wasn't hurting anyone and you just removed a major aspect of the game for people who enjoy end-game and want an escape from the constant griefers.

TLDR: Just reset the servers manually every month and don't compel the player base to be self destructive.

TAIOAN · 2018-12-30 06:16:42

I agree with you.

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2018-12-30 07:41:36

Yes. This is how I feel about the update, too.

It is working out better than I thought... I got to play in two revived villages tonight, and the apocalypse is easy to dismantle. But.... the fundamental encouragement of the griefer play-style coupled with the dismissal of the city-dweller play-style leaves me feeling sad and discouraged.

Greep · 2018-12-30 08:03:49

Do we really need 4 topics for something that probably will never happen anyways?

Edit: That came out kinda dickish. Point being, we have plenty of topics, use those xD

Last edited by Greep (2018-12-30 08:17:44)

Baker · 2018-12-30 08:42:22

BlueDiamondAvatar wrote:

Yes. This is how I feel about the update, too.
It is working out better than I thought... I got to play in two revived villages tonight, and the apocalypse is easy to dismantle. But.... the fundamental encouragement of the griefer play-style coupled with the dismissal of the city-dweller play-style leaves me feeling sad and discouraged.

Where you Karely Bob, My daughter who helped revive an old town. http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=2599625
The run went well but they recently died out due to a dude murdering the last girl. It seems that lucky spawns can still happen but no more old age respawns.

If you look back, This apocalypse is far kinder then it's predecessor.

CrazyEddie · 2018-12-30 09:21:07

Solgryn wrote:

Adding an endtower to the game is ultimately encouraging griefing and murder. [..] Since the endtower was released server 1 has been almost unplayable with the amount of people murdering and secretly sabotaging towns by hiding tools, killing sheep pens and so forth. Obviously there is no escape from this but why add content that actually enables people to do all of that every 24 hours?

The apocalypse has nothing to do with "hiding tools, killing sheep" etc. Anyone who wants to cause the apocalypse needs to work as hard as possible to keep towns alive, not grief them. And the murders you're seeing have nothing to do with the apocalypse, either; you can't get an endstone by stabbing someone in the middle of town. You have to go together out towards a Nosaj, which means that you're either going to have a willing sacrifice or you're going to stab your next baby. Either way it'll be out of sight of everyone so they don't undo your work.

Azrael · 2018-12-30 09:40:19

GEEZ, this man goes on about griefers as if a person decides to grief, it is Jason's fault?

If a feature that he implemented, like the apocalypse, which adds drama and depth to the game in order to reset a civ/server when the tech tree is maximized, when a person does that, is Jason ultimately responsible for how they do it?

In reality, you can create an apocalypse out in the open and heal every person you stab, or use a glitch to make 0 deaths and murders occur.... OR you can make it in secret and kill many for the rest, why does it matter which one you do?

People love, and I mean LOVEEE to make it into two groups, griefers/trollers, and "productive members of society" in actuality when you wanna be productive and you've hit a top tier in tech, the last step IS the apocalypse. I mean you still have to create it and wait for 24 minimum for the whole process, I would say a griefer/troller would want to DESTROY the monument and prevent the apocalypse from happening, because, when the productive players want destruction, the griefers will want the opposite, see what I mean?

This can get into a whole debate about who griefers are and who anti-griefers are, but to keep it related, let's just say griefers go against the people trying to be "productive members of society" if you want to make an apocalypse, the griefers will want it NOT to happen. Simple as that, it's a needed feature and makes the whole server reset once a month thing, which would've been annoying, have a gameplay aspect to it instead of all just Randomly by Jason.

lionon · 2018-12-30 11:24:04

Azrael wrote:

This can get into a whole debate about who griefers are and who anti-griefers are, but to keep it related, let's just say griefers go against the people trying to be "productive members of society" if you want to make an apocalypse, the griefers will want it NOT to happen. Simple as that, it's a needed feature and makes the whole server reset once a month thing, which would've been annoying, have a gameplay aspect to it instead of all just Randomly by Jason.

Without discussing if there aren't better options to solve a problem that not yet existed, and albeit this might stray offtopic, but now this has started: the distinction between griefers and non-griefers is a matter of intention. If it gives someone the kicks to make someone else frustrated, then this is a griefer.

I remembered from the chess example another short story I once read, if you deliberately take your turns soooo slow to make the opponent angry and you enjoy that, you are a griefer. And sometimes game mechanic rules are enforced to make certain kinds harder, like a turn-clock in chess. So yes, game mechanic design is ultimately responsible to confine griefing in a reasonable degree.

Coming back from this excursion. About apocalypse, I doubt this is a motivational enough for griefers. They'd have to invest a lot of time in it and get very little out of it, since they don't see people suffering. They can't laugh at somebodies face (or avatar) and not get an awkward sense of superiority. Unless maybe people complain like hell on the forums etc. but with current mechanics I don't see this coming either.

Fact is, the nocturnal infertility issue is a much bigger reset mechanism already in place and yes albeit sometime people managed to restart towns, I didn't see one live beyond a week anyway. Really we didn't have yet the issue that we all were bored in cars driving in circles.

MultiLife · 2018-12-30 13:21:14

I'd rather have a mother nature style master AI incoming apocalypse to prevent than a player triggered apocalypse. If the game really even has to be wiped out as server updates act as forced wipeouts anyways. I'm gonna look into reviews and discussions of the previous apocalypse to see how the debates went.

I also agree that apocalypse does nothing but harm to the whole "game of parenting and building civilization" deal.

I hope someone can confirm (at some point) that Eve camp saves are intact after apocalypses and can spawn in any moment as long as it was 60 years death.

But yeah I'll summarize my thoughts:
1. Apocalypse is unnecessary
2. Apocalypse is bad for the parenting and crafting side of the game
3. Apocalypse will be interesting once: once we lose a city around us, and ran to forests to eat berries while people die off, that's that - not going to be interesting after that
4. Apocalypse towers are not even high tech, and they are magical hardcore
5. The war of apocalypse vs no apocalypse is a distraction and I'd rather see this as an event than a part of the final game
6. Now people who sabotage apocalypse towns are heroes, which makes me not want to live in them - I don't want to sabotage, but I don't want to live there either to suffer from sabotage. Now I have a reason to /die and end lineages. And I don't like it.

Last edited by MultiLife (2018-12-30 13:24:29)

Lotus · 2018-12-30 14:10:09

The first apocalypse was instated to solve a server problem by letting players reset the servers themselves. This one is just a new, high-tech feature. It does promote murder, but with pads it’s possible for everyone to live. The apocalypse is just something added onto the end of the tech tree.

And it’s REALLY easy to disassemble, not to mention how it would take 24 hours, with no one plucking the endtower blocks apart for the apocalypse to activate. That’s one committed lineage. All of this combined means the apocalypse will rarely if ever occur.

Let’s give the apocalypse a chance. Yes, the last one turned out badly, but Jason knows that and worked really hard to give us this new feature. I think we should indeed give it a chance.

Although I miss Eve chaining it’s how the game was meant to be played. It’s a challenge to live in a city as Eve without some crazy role players trying to kill off your line anyway.

Gabby · 2018-12-30 14:12:21

I agree. This update is really disheartening. I dislike every change made in this update, I'm severely disappointed and I feel that the philosophy behind the game either changed or wasn't communicated clearly to begin with. I thought the game was about building and parenting, and building things for the next generations, but if it is possible to just go and wipe everything, and if it is impossible to keep a family line going, then the proposed objective of the game is not aligning with the actual gameplay. This isn't why I bought the game.

Last edited by Gabby (2018-12-30 14:12:47)

Dacen · 2018-12-30 15:18:10

I didn't played much these days, has the new apocalypse occured even once as we speak ? And if yes how many times ? Is it even comparable to the first one ?

pein · 2018-12-30 16:49:38

the only place i liked an endgame was travian where people could build a wonder, ending a server and winning it
makes sense to delete everything time to time

now here doesn't work cause of multiple reasons:
no cartography- even if we want to get back or get to other cities, we cant really know where they are
no cities: its only a bunch of items and we define city, the game doesn't, it doesn't know how much population a camp has or what is a territory of a city, has it outposts, jason had some code to define center of camps for eve spawning but no city size or population based baby spawn
no city names: we don't really name cities or make them unique
even if we would have, we cant spawn back and compete on a wonder making event
also we don't have a proper timer so we know who and what kind of level is from the final block

Fae · 2018-12-30 18:18:56

Good mercy... I don't tend to want to bring this up, but folks do realize that when they say this 'isn't part of the vision' of the game that they don't know exactly what is going on in Jason's head....right? If he wants it in there then it IS part of the vision of the game. Period.

Personally, I think the apocalypse is kinda a neat idea. I'd much rather have seen other additions, though, such as more food recipes and animals, but it is what it is.

In no way, however, does this make things 'bad for the parenting and crafting side of the game". It doesn't affect a thing. Nobody is putting a knife in your belly during EVERY life to make you unable to care for your children and craft. The apocalypse (which is also crafting) is just another layer some people are interested in.

To put it out there, you don't have to even kill anybody. You can use the medical assets that were added in the game.

Look - it is okay to not like every update added to the game. That's just fine and understandable. But this update didn't ruin the game or anything.

BladeWoods · 2018-12-30 19:27:48

I think the apocalypse is really difficult to make and as a result barely affects the game. Gathering the materials isn't that difficult, perhaps that part could be harder, but it takes 24 hours to make and anyone can dismantle it which resets the timer.

In the past week no lineage has even lasted a whole day.

I hope nocturnal infertility and server splitting gets adressed. Those are the real lineage killers.

MultiLife · 2018-12-30 19:59:54

Fae wrote:

Good mercy... I don't tend to want to bring this up, but folks do realize that when they say this 'isn't part of the vision' of the game that they don't know exactly what is going on in Jason's head....right? If he wants it in there then it IS part of the vision of the game. Period.

Nobody has said that as far as I have read these, maybe I missed that, but I'd use quotes for that - especially when generalizing it like that. We are just confused what the heck is the vision in the end: yes for long lasting cities or no, yes for neighbor cities or no, yes for lineages surviving through night or no, yes for Eves bumping to old ruins and each other or no...? What would be the ideal balance of things? Where are we going here? "Just Why?" says the topic, even.

Fae wrote:

In no way, however, does this make things 'bad for the parenting and crafting side of the game". It doesn't affect a thing. Nobody is putting a knife in your belly during EVERY life to make you unable to care for your children and craft. The apocalypse (which is also crafting) is just another layer some people are interested in.

Adding the mechanic of apocalypse is certainly affecting crafting and parenting side negatively. In a game with survival and crafting, you create to keep going: you create kids, environment for your kids, and items to keep your kids going. If players can trigger a server wipe, your work, your creations, your survival and your time is snagged from you. It's very demotivating. Maybe not to you. But I'd rather not debate over this, rather have you realise, let people vent. They know what they are feeling, whether you find that wrong or silly or something.
Parenting side: apocalypse does affect parenting. It's a distraction. Do I want to raise the 6th baby or find the tower to destroy it? Do I want to stay in an apocalypse town to raise kids there? No to that. Children aren't still precious enough in this game, and now there is an apocalypse instead of more depth in families and such. As many have said, it feels that there is a lack of focus. We get apocalypse but pork is still only for carnitas and dogs are still clutter? We still use baskets and adobe kilns, and have no need for houses? Jason didn't have to add apocalypse now. He did, which makes it feel like it doesn't belong. It'd have had a better timing way later. And many question again, what IS this game, what IS his vision, what IS his focus? He IS free to have the vision and do whatever, but his actions just confuse mostly.

Fae wrote:

Look - it is okay to not like every update added to the game. That's just fine and understandable. But this update didn't ruin the game or anything.

Depends on the person. It can easily ruin it for others. Everyone decides for themselves if it does or not. I haven't said it ruins it for me, but it demotivates my will to contribute so much I'd rather move on to another game. The first blow to me was iron nerf which made me get the mod. Then the jungle update dropped my interest with banana towns and less water/soil and more difficulty finding good locations for Eve camps. Now, apocalypse. Even if it happens rarely, to me it's just a war I don't want to be a part of. I don't want to fight for it nor against it but I do suffer the consequences anyways. I just don't want that distraction. And I decide if it is enough to send me off to another game.

What I've seen is people venting and creating great ideas from it, which is the best result we can have, honestly.

Last edited by MultiLife (2018-12-30 20:17:20)

Fae · 2018-12-30 20:42:32

In regards to the first quote, MultiLife, my apologies there. I was generalizing from what I have heard other people tell me before in their anger over the update. Not the best place to vent it, I guess.

And my goodness. I AM letting people vent. But I am also allowed to vent my thoughts, yes? This is a two-way street. I don't think it is wrong, silly, whatever have you. I was expressing my opinion too.

YES I think it would be better for the apocalypse to be added later, but never once since it has came out has it done a single thing to stir up my game play. I've raised my bundle of children, crafted, farmed, and whatever else came to mind. I'm not going to assume I'm that one person only interested in stopping the apocalypse. Most likely after the tech tree is highly advanced, he'll probably change this apocalypse to be a nuke. He stated pretty clearly the idea of "the button' was interesting to him.

And fine. Maybe I should have edited that bottom line. I was hoping somebody wasn't going to nit-pick, but I am very much aware that it "depends on the person". Truly. It is sad to me to think that somebody would be all "it is ruined" and stop playing the game for something they don't even have to participate in, but...it is what it is.

Clearly you feel strongly about this subject. If you end up feeling like there is no point in playing the game then that is more power to you. There is just so much good about this game that it would be disappointing for so many to jump ship for something like this. And this is ALL I feel on the matter. It'd be disappointing, but I know it happens, obviously.

There is really not much else I can say on this. You've got your opinion and so do I. Not trying to be a pill or anything.

Azrael · 2018-12-30 21:53:20

lionon wrote:

Azrael wrote:
This can get into a whole debate about who griefers are and who anti-griefers are, but to keep it related, let's just say griefers go against the people trying to be "productive members of society" if you want to make an apocalypse, the griefers will want it NOT to happen. Simple as that, it's a needed feature and makes the whole server reset once a month thing, which would've been annoying, have a gameplay aspect to it instead of all just Randomly by Jason.
Without discussing if there aren't better options to solve a problem that not yet existed, and albeit this might stray offtopic, but now this has started: the distinction between griefers and non-griefers is a matter of intention. If it gives someone the kicks to make someone else frustrated, then this is a griefer.
I remembered from the chess example another short story I once read, if you deliberately take your turns soooo slow to make the opponent angry and you enjoy that, you are a griefer. And sometimes game mechanic rules are enforced to make certain kinds harder, like a turn-clock in chess. So yes, game mechanic design is ultimately responsible to confine griefing in a reasonable degree.
Coming back from this excursion. About apocalypse, I doubt this is a motivational enough for griefers. They'd have to invest a lot of time in it and get very little out of it, since they don't see people suffering. They can't laugh at somebodies face (or avatar) and not get an awkward sense of superiority. Unless maybe people complain like hell on the forums etc. but with current mechanics I don't see this coming either.
Fact is, the nocturnal infertility issue is a much bigger reset mechanism already in place and yes albeit sometime people managed to restart towns, I didn't see one live beyond a week anyway. Really we didn't have yet the issue that we all were bored in cars driving in circles.

You misunderstood, anti-griefer is not a non-griefer. Theyre completey different. One is on a side of a scale that is intended to stop griefing but Inturn causes more grief. And the other just doesnt grief.

Its a whole scale and system i thought of that works with the current climate of the game, i might make a forum post about it, dont quote me on that though.

Anyways, youre bringing up unrelated issues, fertility is completely different from the apocalypse. One stems from lack of players and jasons game mechanics while the other is something he implemented to keep up with his updates. Its simple and there's nothing bad to it, he made it fun to reset the server. Would you rather he resets the server every few days, or that WE reset the server every few days.

I perfer that we have the choice, it doesnt have to cause murder and doesnt have ti be a big fuss.

Why do we debate something that is set in stone? He night change it but the fact is servers will always reset no matter what we say.

Carrot-Seedling · 2018-12-31 12:51:45

Anshin wrote:

Can't we have something to work towards that is positive?

Anything positive would be great, Jason. Anshin suggested having an Endstone and a Utopiastone that go into a tower. Depending on how many of each go into it, you get better or worse stuff. Sure, if everyone kills everyone then they'll wipe that part of the server, but if we strive to be good people, we'll make it an Eden. It's up to us wether we're good or bad people.

And if all the developer can do is sit down and code pessimistic games, then it's a good thing I developed Wheat Society while I was there to do it.

The_Anabaptist · 2018-12-31 14:19:22

I like the idea of a positive stone. I can see it now. You have to have eight people encircle a neutral / bad stone. And they all have to say "Om!". Then it changes somehow and can't be used for sacrifice. And maybe it promotes fertility! Increased Yum bonus by +2 or something! I dream the impossible dream...

The_Anabaptist

Last edited by The_Anabaptist (2018-12-31 14:20:14)

Solgryn · 2019-01-01 04:08:06

Glad to see so many people against the update. Watched Twisted's new video and the comments on his video made me happy to see. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIKTa1JbcNs

Morti · 2019-01-01 07:48:35

Jason is the 'utopiastone'
The game is already utopia, we are it's undoing.

The lesson here is to make the best of what we have before it's gone. We've been given a whole world, in reality, we've been given the whole universe, now what are we going to do with it?

Jason was the start.
Nosaj is the end.

If he could, he might make the game play in reverse, right back to the moment he sat down and started coding it, and these years would just bounce back and forth, through this window of time, like a perfectly perpendicular match of pong.

But the end is always gaining distance from the beginning; the end is always getting closer to the present.

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2019-01-01 21:00:53

Solgryn wrote:

Glad to see so many people against the update. Watched Twisted's new video and the comments on his video made me happy to see. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIKTa1JbcNs

Thanks for sharing this Solgryn. The comments were good to see. And while I don't keep up with Twisted's videos on a regular basis, I do enjoy his cultural influence on the game. So I was utterly delighted to realize I was playing one of the family members in this video! I started building the platform around the bakery in this town. I show up in the video around 1:30 minutes in. I think I stupidly starved pretty early in that life though...

Monolith_Rans · 2019-01-02 05:07:05

I think Jason wants to see how quickly we can climb the tech tree from absolute scratch and he's not going to be happy until that amount of time is like .........never. Making us do it the reset I think might make him feel better about himself, but there are not to many of us who are happy about it.

Psykout · 2019-01-02 12:05:28

Part of me wonders if the map was made smaller, and the spirals not as far, that eventually we the players would need to reset the map simply to renew the resources. Griefers would attempt to do it sooner to take down progress, but eventually it would need to happen anyways, so it wouldn't be so negative.

It seems like people are really upset about the apocalypse because it feels like a tool that only serves those with negative intentions. If it had a dual purpose maybe it would have more of a place in the game.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-12-30 05:36:12

Just Why?

#2 2018-12-30 06:16:42

Re: Just Why?

#3 2018-12-30 07:41:36

Re: Just Why?

#4 2018-12-30 08:03:49

Re: Just Why?

#5 2018-12-30 08:42:22

Re: Just Why?

#6 2018-12-30 09:21:07

Re: Just Why?

#7 2018-12-30 09:40:19

Re: Just Why?

#8 2018-12-30 11:24:04

Re: Just Why?

#9 2018-12-30 13:21:14

Re: Just Why?

#10 2018-12-30 14:10:09

Re: Just Why?

#11 2018-12-30 14:12:21

Re: Just Why?

#12 2018-12-30 15:18:10

Re: Just Why?

#13 2018-12-30 16:49:38

Re: Just Why?

#14 2018-12-30 18:18:56

Re: Just Why?

#15 2018-12-30 19:27:48

Re: Just Why?

#16 2018-12-30 19:59:54

Re: Just Why?

#17 2018-12-30 20:42:32

Re: Just Why?

#18 2018-12-30 21:53:20

Re: Just Why?

#19 2018-12-31 12:51:45

Re: Just Why?

#20 2018-12-31 14:19:22

Re: Just Why?

#21 2019-01-01 04:08:06

Re: Just Why?

#22 2019-01-01 07:48:35

Re: Just Why?

#23 2019-01-01 21:00:53

Re: Just Why?

#24 2019-01-02 05:07:05

Re: Just Why?

#25 2019-01-02 12:05:28

Re: Just Why?

Board footer