Two out of eight kids were leavers, unplayable trend

Cecil · 2019-01-11 13:56:34

I am upset with leavers. This has been happening for days.

Yet again, I found a decent spot. I did all the "normal" things you have to do these days to avoid having the min-maxing shitlords instant-suiciding themselves; I named myself, I stayed around a town where the forge or farm was visible on screen. Still... I had 8 kids as an Eve, and 6 were fucking leavers. The two last I had were a boy and a girl who actually tried their best, but died to animals. That can happen, but the six leavers are unforgivable. They ruin the game and I find this increasingly frustrating.

http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=2804579

From the bloodline it looks like I had 4 active kids, but Major was just an AFK waste of space that never spoke and never moved, and I have no idea what was up with "Girl" cause they just left.

This game is being dragged down by attention deficit people who can't wait for a couple of minutes to grow up without bouncing all over the screen or killing themselves off in a never ending chase of greener grass.

Last time I brought it up, I didn't suggest fixes, but I will now.

*Bloodline ban and server ban to people who use /die.
*Account cooldown on /die so they can do it a few times, but not for dozens of times in a row.
*Dying as a kid multiple times in a row before you have hair should force you to Eve spawn so you can't keep shitting up the baby spawns for mothers. This would affect runners too.
*Mothers need some sort of birth system that recognizes when they lost a kid, and skips the cooldown before they can have another, otherwise they'll get to 40 year and have all their births occupied by leavers.
*"Curse my baby" command for mothers that affects the last player they birthed, forcing that player to Eve spawn and skipping the cooldown timer on having babies.

Last edited by Cecil (2019-01-11 14:07:17)

Sasooli · 2019-01-11 14:33:59

The trouble with disincentivising /die is people will just run off into the wilds to starve instead, which I find even more annoying as a mother because it's less immediate and could be accidental whereas /die is very obvious.

If saying "curse my baby" reset your fertility cooldown, there would be the risk of people saying it just when the baby dies for any reason. That would penalise people unfairly. Imagine you spawn in as a boy, but your mother needs girls so she doesn't feed you - and then curses you to speed up getting more girls. That would suck pretty hard.

My feeling is that unless and until Jason gives people a way to express a preference on login for what type of person they want to spawn as (m/f, eve/baby) we just kind of have to accept a high infant mortality rate.

alphabetter · 2019-01-11 16:07:14

ah, but you had only one sids. so dont blame /die on that. /die resets your birth cooldown, and lineage bans the person, so they dont get added back into your family until the timer is up.

this was a case of the new thing with ohol+ where people can shift+del to insta die. this was a thing before /die, because it forced you to disconnect and reconnect, so you wouldnt need to run or wait to starve. this was taken out when /die was added, as we were given a way to die easily, get lineage banned, and because disconnect was fixed so you didn't die. now, there's an error that is being abused to die by force starving, and it's really fucking frustrating. it doesnt reset your cooldown or lineage ban them, and i even had a kid /devious at me before doing it earlier. its a new way to troll and grief, with no way to get punished for it, cause they do it before they get names! id be just as frustrated in your shoes, but don't blame /die.

Dodge · 2019-01-11 16:19:27

Sometimes they all leave sometimes they all stay everyone had shit eve runs, but you cant force people to stay (or they will likely grief or be useless) and it would be wrong to penalize someone for not wanting to be in your village

But if we werent spread out on 15 servers (most of the time 4 servers) and would all be on one server then this would be less of an issue since you would have about 4 times more babies (most likely less than that but still more than with the current server system)

Imo it would be better if we were all on one server and maybe keep 1-3 servers accessible via custom server for people that want to play solo or in small groups

Cecil · 2019-01-11 16:44:44

Okay, well, I don't know if they did /die or abused the exploit, but either way, this is an unsustainable way to play.

1. Players suicide until they find the civ they want, or they suicide until they get to be an Eve.
2a. The sorts of civs people are looking for are less likely to appear because there aren't enough viable off-spring to make a community bloom.
2b. They finally get to be an Eve, but their babies are suiciding.

What the guy earlier said about letting people play with a spawn preference to Eve/boy/girl/etc is probably the least intrusive compromise.

Last edited by Cecil (2019-01-11 16:45:50)

MultiLife · 2019-01-11 16:52:32

The most rare breed in this game is a girl that can survive an Eve camp. If you land town/city lives, teach newbies things - they may be your only staying daughter in a future Eve run. Eve Toot seems to have birthed noobs, honestly.

Anyways, the more lineages are around, the more competition you have with babies. /die people are great as they reset your cooldown, it's like they never happened. Staying babygirl newbies are the most dangerous ones in Eve camps - they stay only to soon die, seeming like they just ran off or something.

Never punish players for not staying or they will stay and grief.

Luniatji · 2019-01-11 17:56:21

The option to play as eve/baby and girl/boy seems the best thing in this case; but one that will likely never happen. Because then there is the promise that you "Spawn as a random baby" not true anymore.

That being said, it is the best way in my opinion. People want the most fun out their hour and that means that they try to come somewhere they met there wishes.

- You are in a town but want an eve-camp? Suicide
- You are in a Eve camp but want a town? Suicide
- You are a boy but prefer a girl/are a girl but prefer a boy? Suicide.

But there is a solution! The /die command! But that don't work in most of the cases, because:
- Your mom runs away from you too let you starve? Too bad, you have to stay till your dead.
- Your mom runs away from you but someone else fed you? Too bad, you can't do /die because your not in your moms arms. Beside that, you will survive until you keep running away and people try to chase you.
- Your loading in costs more than a minute? Too bad, you are now 1 years old and not 0, so you can't /die.

And then, YES! You CAN do /die! It's a wonder! Of isn't it?
- You don't mind about the place but you don't want your gender? You have to die too, but /die won't work because thats special on your lineage.. So you have to run away.
- You have AWBZ's mod? Yay, the /die command isn't needed! You can just kill yourself! Bye family!

That's all seen from behind the baby. But, you have also the moms:
- Help this kid did /die and I walk around with bones! No worry, you will get another baby soon.
- Help this kid runs away and I want a baby! OR - Help this kid just died but he didn't starve and he didn't /die! Where is my baby!
Do worry, you won't get a baby soon because you have a birth cooldown. Wait till that's over and then you get a baby.. or not.

The way to "punish" a baby with a lineage ban for /die isn't the best way of action. Because, like I said earlier, sometimes that kid just don't want his gender but doesn't care about where it's born. It IS a good idea to bring a lineage ban to it, but I think it is better to work around it. See it like this:

Everyone from 0 to 15 can do /die-> New screen pops up with the question "Ban me from this lineage? Yes/no". -> person presses YES and get a lineage ban/person presses NO and gets no lineage ban -> Normal screen with "reborn" -> Person gets reborn in this lineage and does /die again -> new screen: "You did kill yourself twice in this lineage, do you want a lineage ban? Yes/no -> Person gets lineage ban/no lineage ban -> person gets reborn again -> person does /die -> New screen pops up: "You have killed yourself three times in this lineage. ? as girl and ? as boy." D
- 0 times girl, 3 times boy -> If you get reborn, you play as girl -> Die again? Lineage ban
- 3 times girl, 0 times boy -> If you got reborn, you play as boy -> Die again? Lineage ban
- 2 times boy, 1 time girl (Or the other ways this can be if your three time born) -> Likely a troll, lineage ban

Or we can just be easy and give people a way to choose how to be born in the first place..

Last edited by Luniatji (2019-01-11 17:57:42)

WalrusesConquer · 2019-01-11 18:03:31

Had this bug when kids died instantly. No baby skeleton. Nothing. The moment I pick them up they die. I was able to still feed them so that was weird

Gederian · 2019-01-11 18:19:02

WalrusesConquer wrote:

Had this bug when kids died instantly. No baby skeleton. Nothing. The moment I pick them up they die. I was able to still feed them so that was weird

I think I encountered this a few times yesterday. Kid was born, I went to pick up and it immediately turned to skulls on the floor. Even heard the skull drop death sound.

Booklat1 · 2019-01-12 00:45:54

i really wish people to stop asking Jason to fix what isn't broken. Some people don't wanna play eve camps, you'll have to wait for those that do.

Cecil · 2019-01-12 01:06:47

Booklat1 wrote:

i really wish people to stop asking Jason to fix what isn't broken. Some people don't wanna play eve camps, you'll have to wait for those that do.

No, this isn't something I'll let slide. The suicide exploit is messing up births cooldown and in turn the survival chances for all civs, not just Eve camps.

I thought /die did the same, and I'm relieved to hear that it resets birth cooldown, but the suicide exploit in that mod people keep using is absolutely having a large negative impact.

AFKers and people just running off to die is also bad, but it isn't as systematic or widespread as that damned exploit.

Last edited by Cecil (2019-01-12 01:28:48)

JonySky · 2019-01-12 01:25:04

Do you think that this problem only happens in the eve camps? Although in the big cities more children are born, most of the cities die due to lack of birth (all children end up dying without creating offspring)
Today, I've been playing in a city where at birth there were 20 children running around ... when I was an adult I created a nursery to care for future children ... but after 30 minutes of play there was no child alive, we were all old and without possibility of having children ... all the children had died in different ways ... a medium-sized city with almost everything done to death for lack of birth, even with a nursery! ...

Ember Leaf · 2019-01-12 08:32:19

I for one agree this trend is game breakingly awful. It means fewer towns survive, its way less fun to be female, fewer people want to play Eve because kids all bail etc.

And I know I’m in the minority here but I think playing the spawn you’re given is in the spirit of the game. I would be in favor of /die being a little more forgiving (maybe do it whenever you want and get your lineage ban) but limited to 2-3 times per day.

MultiLife · 2019-01-12 09:47:40

Ember Leaf wrote:

I for one agree this trend is game breakingly awful. It means fewer towns survive, its way less fun to be female, fewer people want to play Eve because kids all bail etc.
And I know I’m in the minority here but I think playing the spawn you’re given is in the spirit of the game. I would be in favor of /die being a little more forgiving (maybe do it whenever you want and get your lineage ban) but limited to 2-3 times per day.

Issue is that at some points in 24h, we have less people come in so there will always be lineages dying out and towns wiped. Sometimes it's yours, sometimes it's not. People are so hellbent on having theirs survive they get loud when it doesn't. At this point we need a freaking artificial womb system if people can't accept an end.

Playing the spawn you get:
Humans are selfish. Their time is valuable. This game has multiple scenarios where you are born to, and at some point you recognize where you really don't want to be.
If the game forces players to play lives they don't want, they will start to grief and express frustration.

I find it somewhat control freakish to demand that you ("you" as in people upset about lineages dying) get a girl that stays and survives and pushes out a new generation (as she most likely just sits in perfect temperature and eats foods).
The fact that females act like spawn beacons in Battlefield 2142 makes them almost like objects here. "I WANT TO HAVE YOU FOR SELFISH REASONS TO SIT HERE AND WORK YOUR MAGIC", whether she wants to or not. They should just please you while they are not enjoying themselves and want to be elsewhere.
If the game forced me to be a breeding cow I'd walk away from my computer and leave my mom a husk to feed. Or I'd kill the game.
People who demand a breeding cow daughter are as selfish as people who demand a life they want to play.
The fact that you can't let a place/lineage die doesn't overwrite other players' freedom to choose if they care or not.

Also if you limit /die to 2-3 uses per day, prepare yourself for baby runners who put you on cooldown. That's all it was before /die. Babies taking off instantly and you getting no chance at a good replacement as a cooldown starts.

Btw this is all coming from a player who plays all lives they get.

Last edited by MultiLife (2019-01-12 15:26:52)

MultiLife · 2019-01-12 10:56:01

Here is an interesting story from yesterday's life:
I was born to a lone woman in some cold camp. She pleaded me to stay - I was going to, anyways. She had 5 kids (4 daughters) in her life. Three had starved (runners I'd guess as they had no last words) and I was the fourth, the last one, thankfully managing to be born as a girl after her cooldown from last girl had ended.
I went on to birth 4 boys who stayed, 2 girls who SIDed and again, the last girl (I was at like thirty six years), stayed. She promised she's good and I made sure she wouldn't starve early years.
However she was rarely in camp, she ran around to get rabbits and whatever while her brother offered to take her place in these dangerous tasks. But nah. She did what she wanted.
She had one boy who stayed and four daughters, and only one was a SID. THREE of her babygirls died with "F" as their last word. She may have been a good player but she was a rubbish mother. That line ended there and a snake bit her in the end. I had sat half an hour in my semi-breeding cow life only to have that happen in the end, my mom pleaded me to stay only to have that happen in the end. I could've never stayed and the end result would've just happened one gen earlier. My mom could've never stayed and that would've happened two gens earlier. The lineage dies anyways. The longer it makes the more the place is developed, that's it. It still dies and disappears.

Thankfully, I don't play only to make lineages survive so my time wasn't wasted here. I play to have fun whether my lineage dies or not. Many of the players can't seem to play this way. It's "LINEAGE SURVIVES" or nothing. >_> It's not a standard that they should or would. 30 gen lineages are a miracle, 3 gen lineage is a common sight.

Those SID girls probably went on to save another lineage somewhere else.

Funnily enough the Dick family was brought to the Lincoln camp by my son - one of them bumped into Sarah Dick III and she brought new blood to our camp. However, even after rearing so many kids herself, the place died in the next two gens. Both lineages of ours dropped dead at the same gen basically. Why try to force girls to stay and birth if this happens anyways? Let them go and have fun if they know they won't have fun playing the part of a doomed breeding cow. A breeding cow is always doomed if her life has no other meaning.

http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=2810307

Last edited by MultiLife (2019-01-12 15:29:56)

Nepumuk · 2019-01-12 11:09:26

Hi, first post here. Just to add my two cents:

I've tried for hours today (and the last days) to get into a decent eve camp because I am eager to to play early civ. But 9 out of 10 camps I get born into simply are too bad to have a chance at survival. I'm not talking mediocre spots, I mean unplayable, no water within several screens of the camp, no warm tiles to raise kids at all, stuff like that. If I can see in one quick look that the camp has no means to make it past a generation or two I will always suicide because staying is a waste of my time and frankly it's a waste of everybody's time that gets born there. If I was forced to stay in situations like this I would just grief until I get bored and eventually just stop playing the game altogether.

If anything, rather than creating bad camp after bad camp I would prefer new player Eves to just kill themselves and keep spawning in towns to live and learn until they are ready to start a civ, then a lot of babies would never have to suicide out of a bad spot in the first place.

BladeWoods · 2019-01-13 04:21:09

*Mothers need some sort of birth system that recognizes when they lost a kid, and skips the cooldown before they can have another, otherwise they'll get to 40 year and have all their births occupied by leavers.

This was your best suggestion, I like this.

Greep · 2019-01-13 04:30:14

You should probably update the title: two out of 8 leavers is not bad at all, however, you had 2 out of 8 non-leavers

Cecil · 2019-01-13 15:08:16

3 used the suicide exploit. 1 AFKed and starved. 1 AFKed and then ran off to die when she kept getting fed. And only 1 used /die as all the rest of them should have to reset birth cd. That doesn't make a good title though.

Luniatji · 2019-01-13 16:21:36

The suicide "exploit" is there because people had asked for it.. Meaning that the way we can play now- without that "exploit"- is not enough for all players.

Punishing people by leaving (Even if thats for "less good place next time" or "You can only /die three times each day!" is just the problem; you can't force people to stay in your line if they don't want to. It's like MultiLife said: That you want someone to stay is saying that your wish (that a person stays) is more important than their wish to leave.

That's why this would be my idea:

Everyone from 0 to 15 can do /die, no matter if your in your Moms arms or not.-> New screen pops up with the question "Ban me from this lineage? Yes/no". -> person presses YES and get a lineage ban/person presses NO and gets no lineage ban -> Normal screen with "reborn" -> Person gets reborn in this lineage and does /die again -> new screen: "You did kill yourself twice in this lineage, do you want a lineage ban? Yes/no -> Person gets lineage ban/no lineage ban -> person gets reborn again -> person does /die -> New screen pops up: "You have killed yourself three times in this lineage. ? as girl and ? as boy."
- 0 times girl, 3 times boy -> If you get reborn, you play as girl -> /Die again? Lineage ban
- 3 times girl, 0 times boy -> If you got reborn, you play as boy -> /Die again? Lineage ban
- 2 times boy, 1 time girl (Or the other ways this can be if your three time born) -> Likely a troll, lineage ban

This way you would have kids dying for you, but you as mom wouldn't get a birth cooldown and they wouldn't get a punishment for leaving. I don't think it would ever be implemented, 'cause it is not in Jason's vision, but it would solve problems..

Cecil · 2019-01-13 17:27:46

Just had another game with 3 exploiters. Two of them even had the nerve to use it in my hands instead of just /die. You can tell by the skeleton dropping to the ground instead of being held. It also doesn't say sudden infant death on the lineage tree. At this point I'm pretty sure they're just doing it to grief.

http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=2846940

There really should be a way to report them or have them face some sort of consequence for messing with birth rates. This specific civ will be fine, but that was 3 minutes we could have had babies that weren't selfish pieces of shit.

Last edited by Cecil (2019-01-13 17:35:02)

CrazyEddie · 2019-01-13 17:53:55

You're overreacting.

Cecil · 2019-01-13 17:55:04

That argument goes both ways; You are underreacting.

I see no reason why the kill exploit should be allowed to exist. There's already plenty of ways to kill yourself if you spawn as an Eve, and it takes like two seconds to enter /die if you spawn as someone's baby.

Last edited by Cecil (2019-01-13 17:56:17)

Booklat1 · 2019-01-13 18:13:41

thats why its an exploit, it wasn't meant by Jason. and a few lives spawning exploiters is hardly enough evidence to say its making the game unplayable.

Its an issue, i agree, but you don't change it by nerfing /die.

MultiLife · 2019-01-13 18:21:03

Cecil wrote:

I see no reason why the kill exploit should be allowed to exist. There's already plenty of ways to kill yourself if you spawn as an Eve, and it takes like two seconds to enter /die if you spawn as someone's baby.

The reason it exists is because the game can't recognize when it happens or stop it from happening. Don't ask me how it works, others know what it truly does (forced starvation or some other forced total disconnection). In a nutshell the game can't recognize this as a forced action from a player so it can't prevent it from happening.

Cecil wrote:

Just had another game with 3 exploiters. Two of them even had the nerve to use it in my hands instead of just /die. You can tell by the skeleton dropping to the ground instead of being held. It also doesn't say sudden infant death on the lineage tree. At this point I'm pretty sure they're just doing it to grief.
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=2846940
There really should be a way to report them or have them face some sort of consequence for messing with birth rates. This specific civ will be fine, but that was 3 minutes we could have had babies that weren't selfish pieces of shit.

Why is everyone named Unnamed? Not good.

And I don't think anyone thinks griefing like that is worth the time - they couldn't even see the reaction which they crave. I am willing to bet that they are people who are trying to get to places they want to go like Tarr does - putting moms on cooldowns to roll back to their earlier lineage.

If we want to ONLY have children who want to be with us, this would be a very different game. Jason has said he doesn't want people to choose their lives or choose to Eve, but as long as he fights against that, we will have babies killing themselves in order to get what they themselves want. And honestly, they have paid as much as you for this game, so what they want is something they have a right to have - sadly it just hinders some lineages and mothers, but, it's nothing compared to how it was before.
I've encountered a ctrl delete suicider baby only once, so make sure to approach this issue neutrally, or you make it feel bigger than it really is. I have hard time believing there are many using the old ctrl delete suicide, you may just roll the same person.

Last edited by MultiLife (2019-01-13 18:23:42)

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#1 2019-01-11 13:56:34

Two out of eight kids were leavers, unplayable trend

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Re: Two out of eight kids were leavers, unplayable trend

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