Cursing system sucks.

nerfsnowballsnow · 2019-03-03 22:09:22

Got sent to donkeytown for the second time now. From four curses. Was in a town with sheep. Noticed someone shear the last sheep. Went up to them and told them not to. They very clearly saw it since they stood still while I was typing, but they didnt respond. I fed the sheep so we could have lamb again, and that person went up again and sheared the last sheep. I had already warned them not to do it, so I stabbed them. They cursed me and went into town and told people to curse me since I "was griefer". One person cursed me and then chased me with knife even though I explained myself. I literally spent about 40 seconds just typing that she was bad for town and for him to stop, he didn't, he kept trying to stab. Decided I had given him enough chances so I stabbed him. He runs into town and tells people to curse me again, luckily it ended there. Got sent to donkeytown for it though. Do I really deserve it? Four curses for killing someone who was fucking over town and refusing to stop, and someone who tried to kill me for that. Cursing system is really stupid since people just curse without knowing any context at all. I bet if I had lost the fight with the guy trying to stab me, and I told people to curse him when I had been stabbed, they would have. Right now people just curse whoever has a bloody knife without even asking why, and it's seriously stupid.

Twisted · 2019-03-03 22:33:17

Leaving a sheep unshorn doesn't really matter any more, since feeding unshorn sheep now gives dung as well. This means you stabbed a person for no reason, so they had a good reason to be upset.

If you get sent to Donkey Town after getting four curses, you either got four curses in your previous life as well, or your total curse number is so massive that your Donkey Town Threshold is lower than 8.

Solbusaur · 2019-03-03 22:42:50

Curses are good, they should stay. The mindless sheep are the ones who die in the end because of their own ignorance, unable to curse an actual griefer that comes their way. Eventually they learn to ask questions first rather than later. The people are the problem, not the system

nerfsnowballsnow · 2019-03-03 22:46:28

Twisted wrote:

Leaving a sheep unshorn doesn't really matter any more, since feeding unshorn sheep now gives dung as well. This means you stabbed a person for no reason, so they had a good reason to be upset.
If you get sent to Donkey Town after getting four curses, you either got four curses in your previous life as well, or your total curse number is so massive that your Donkey Town Threshold is lower than 8.

Feeding an unshorn sheep gives you wool and poop.

Feeding a lamb gives you wool, poop, and another sheep. Another sheep is worth 4 mutton. You lose 4 mutton by shearing last sheep. Town was low on mutton, had one basket of three mutton and nothing else, and I'm pretty sure that player was the reason. Only saw her shear the last sheep twice, there's a good chance she did it more times and that's why town was low. Shearing last sheep is still lowkey griefing.

And yes I have a low curse threshold. Don't know if I had any curses beforehand, but it is definetely lower than 8. It's not because I grief. If I see someone messing up, usually by shearing last sheep, I give them one warning, and if they do it again, I stab them. Always do this, and pretty much always get cursed lol. I never stab without warning first unless it's very clearly intentional griefing. I really don't feel like I deserve to go to donkeytown for this. If someone intentionally fucks town ovey, for example by shearing last sheep, after being told not to, they are actually griefing. Killing griefers should never give you curses but it does, because people don't ask why you stabbed. It's a serious problem.

nerfsnowballsnow · 2019-03-03 22:48:29

Solbusaur wrote:

Curses are good, they should stay. The mindless sheep are the ones who die in the end because of their own ignorance, unable to curse an actual griefer that comes their way. Eventually they learn to ask questions first rather than later. The people are the problem, not the system

And the system sucks because people don't learn. There's no visible punishment for cursing without a good reason, so people keep doing it. Cursing has been here for a looong time and people still curse without any context. The majority of players don't learn.

pein · 2019-03-03 22:51:46

it does matter, as you still wont get lamb, you can feed multiple lambs at once, and its better to fill the pen first, then shear and kill naked ones
also you lose out on the meat
and you got no right to shear sheep if you arent the one who fed it
try to put shears into your pack or apron and tell people its at you
if they need fleece they can ask for it
if they don't feed sheep they have no right to demand fleece
generally people will make more shears so no good way to stop this assholes

if you want to kill them then put a fire somewhere and hide there
make sure she dies so cant be healed
throw out pads and later clean them
also if your kill is legit, go tell someone so they are prepared for it
also you can make them waste their curse points by cursing some random name
if they are dumb they won understand anyway why a lazy bum doesn't deserve to live
but they will curse any baby bone if you tell them so

i agree, people cant use the curse system, and therefore the system is bad
gives too much power to people with no cost or requirement
what if you curse 10 times and get in donkey town yourself? that would make people think not to curse cause others ask it

Twisted · 2019-03-03 22:57:37

Out of 34,000 players that have ever been cursed, only 27 have enough lifetime curses that their threshold is 6 or lower.

Also, shearing the wrong sheep is not a reason to kill someone. By murdering them you're causing more damage to the town that they would do in ten lifetimes. You're definitely in the wrong on this one.

The only people I see complaining about the curse system are either serial griefers or people who are extremely hostile to others.

Last edited by Twisted (2019-03-03 22:59:30)

CrazyEddie · 2019-03-03 23:00:30

Everyone always earns every curse they receive. You get curses when you make other players angry. It doesn't matter whether they "should" be angry; it doesn't matter whether you were right and they were wrong; it doesn't matter whether it's fair.

If you make other players angry you will get curses.

If you don't know why other players are getting angry with you, you should spend more time reflecting on that.

If you do know why other players are getting angry with you, you should stop doing things that make them angry. Or get used to donkeytown. Your choice.

nerfsnowballsnow · 2019-03-03 23:04:30

Twisted wrote:

Out of 34,000 players that have ever been cursed, only 27 have enough lifetime curses that their threshold is 6 or lower.
Also, shearing the wrong sheep is not a reason to kill someone. By murdering them you're causing more damage to the town that they would do in ten lifetimes. You're definitely in the wrong on this one.
The only people I see complaining about the curse system are either serial griefers or people who are extremely hostile to others.

Okay. What was the correct thing to do here? That person kept shearing the last sheep that I was feeding. Town had pretty much no mutton. I told her not to do it, and she did it anyways. Town needed mutton. What could I have done other than kill her to ensure that town had mutton? How is it more damaging killing someone who was crippling towns supply of food, than letting them do it? You don't know if that person would have worked hard or even worked at all. What is certain is that she was destroying the supply of mutton which town very much needed. How on earth was it bad for the town that she died?

nerfsnowballsnow · 2019-03-03 23:07:43

CrazyEddie wrote:

Everyone always earns every curse they receive. You get curses when you make other players angry. It doesn't matter whether they "should" be angry; it doesn't matter whether you were right and they were wrong; it doesn't matter whether it's fair.
If you make other players angry you will get curses.
If you don't know why other players are getting angry with you, you should spend more time reflecting on that.
If you do know why other players are getting angry with you, you should stop doing things that make them angry. Or get used to donkeytown. Your choice.

People will curse just because they see a bloody knife. People will curse just because you ask them to. I've asked people to curse someone who they knew nothing about, and they did it. How is this not a problem? You can get sent to donkeytown by people that don't know if you did anything wrong.

Chard · 2019-03-03 23:29:15

nerfsnowballsnow wrote:

Got sent to donkeytown for the second time now. From four curses. Was in a town with sheep. Noticed someone shear the last sheep. Went up to them and told them not to. They very clearly saw it since they stood still while I was typing, but they didnt respond. I fed the sheep so we could have lamb again, and that person went up again and sheared the last sheep. I had already warned them not to do it, so I stabbed them. They cursed me and went into town and told people to curse me since I "was griefer".

I'm sorry this happened to you. But really?! You have an opinion, they have an opinion. They choose their opinion over yours so you stab them? Why didn't you just curse them? Or try and explain again your reasoning? Maybe I don't know all the facts here but based on what you've told me I'd say you were a griefer. You don't stab people for this kind of thing. One warning, then stab them? Is that what it has come to?

nerfsnowballsnow · 2019-03-03 23:34:33

Chard wrote:

nerfsnowballsnow wrote:
Got sent to donkeytown for the second time now. From four curses. Was in a town with sheep. Noticed someone shear the last sheep. Went up to them and told them not to. They very clearly saw it since they stood still while I was typing, but they didnt respond. I fed the sheep so we could have lamb again, and that person went up again and sheared the last sheep. I had already warned them not to do it, so I stabbed them. They cursed me and went into town and told people to curse me since I "was griefer".
I'm sorry this happened to you. But really?! You have an opinion, they have an opinion. They choose their opinion over yours so you stab them? Why didn't you just curse them? Or try and explain again your reasoning? Maybe I don't know all the facts here but based on what you've told me I'd say you were a griefer. You don't stab people for this kind of thing. One warning, then stab them? Is that what it has come to?

Yes. I went to pen and saw one sheared sheep. I fed it, and before it has any lambs, that girl comes and shears it. I tell her not to and she ignores me. I fed it again and she sheared it again. Town had one basket of 3 mutton. Nothing else. Almost certain she was the reason why. She wasn't listening and she was screwing town over after being told not to. I honestly can't see how it's bad for the town to have her dead. It isn't an opinion that she was screwing town over, it's a fact lol. Also I did curse them. I legit cannot see how she wasn't griefing by shearing that sheep. How intentional it was I don't know, but she was griefing town by continuing to shear the sheep, and I told her not to do it, and she kept doing it.

Greep · 2019-03-03 23:36:18

Instead of saying it sucks, how about you suggest something better? You know what would REALLY suck? Having no moderation at all.

nerfsnowballsnow · 2019-03-03 23:47:56

Greep wrote:

Instead of saying it sucks, how about you suggest something better? You know what would REALLY suck? Having no moderation at all.

A player tribunal on the website. Once someone gets enough curses, they get on the tribunal. Tribunal shows logs and actions of lives where they were cursed. Community decides if they deserve to be punished. Majority vote decides if player will be punished. The more someone votes correctly (as in, the same vote as the majority chose) the more their vote will count. Player made punishments with tribunal systems work in other games, can't see why it wouldn't here. Would also be much easier to send actual griefers to DT. You should only need a few curses to get tribunal tested.

Greep · 2019-03-03 23:55:27

What other games? I've literally never seen it.

Chard · 2019-03-03 23:57:10

nerfsnowballsnow wrote:

Chard wrote:
nerfsnowballsnow wrote:
Got sent to donkeytown for the second time now. From four curses. Was in a town with sheep. Noticed someone shear the last sheep. Went up to them and told them not to. They very clearly saw it since they stood still while I was typing, but they didnt respond. I fed the sheep so we could have lamb again, and that person went up again and sheared the last sheep. I had already warned them not to do it, so I stabbed them. They cursed me and went into town and told people to curse me since I "was griefer".
I'm sorry this happened to you. But really?! You have an opinion, they have an opinion. They choose their opinion over yours so you stab them? Why didn't you just curse them? Or try and explain again your reasoning? Maybe I don't know all the facts here but based on what you've told me I'd say you were a griefer. You don't stab people for this kind of thing. One warning, then stab them? Is that what it has come to?
Yes. I went to pen and saw one sheared sheep. I fed it, and before it has any lambs, that girl comes and shears it. I tell her not to and she ignores me. I fed it again and she sheared it again. Town had one basket of 3 mutton. Nothing else. Almost certain she was the reason why. She wasn't listening and she was screwing town over after being told not to. I honestly can't see how it's bad for the town to have her dead. It isn't an opinion that she was screwing town over, it's a fact lol. Also I did curse them. I legit cannot see how she wasn't griefing by shearing that sheep. How intentional it was I don't know, but she was griefing town by continuing to shear the sheep, and I told her not to do it, and she kept doing it.

But from her perspective: she was shearing sheep, someone said not to, she decided to ignore them, she sheared more sheep, she got stabbed by the person. I can't say for certain she wasn't a griefer but I am certain you were. Fortunately this means your essential premise is correct: if you didn't learn not to stab people BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T SUBSTITUTE YOUR AUTHORITY FOR THEIR OWN, then the cursing system does not work.

For my money I like the cursing system but I'm rarely the target of it I suppose.

nerfsnowballsnow · 2019-03-04 00:02:32

Greep wrote:

What other games? I've literally never seen it.

League of legends. It works wonders.

nerfsnowballsnow · 2019-03-04 00:04:32

Chard wrote:

nerfsnowballsnow wrote:
Chard wrote:
I'm sorry this happened to you. But really?! You have an opinion, they have an opinion. They choose their opinion over yours so you stab them? Why didn't you just curse them? Or try and explain again your reasoning? Maybe I don't know all the facts here but based on what you've told me I'd say you were a griefer. You don't stab people for this kind of thing. One warning, then stab them? Is that what it has come to?
Yes. I went to pen and saw one sheared sheep. I fed it, and before it has any lambs, that girl comes and shears it. I tell her not to and she ignores me. I fed it again and she sheared it again. Town had one basket of 3 mutton. Nothing else. Almost certain she was the reason why. She wasn't listening and she was screwing town over after being told not to. I honestly can't see how it's bad for the town to have her dead. It isn't an opinion that she was screwing town over, it's a fact lol. Also I did curse them. I legit cannot see how she wasn't griefing by shearing that sheep. How intentional it was I don't know, but she was griefing town by continuing to shear the sheep, and I told her not to do it, and she kept doing it.
But from her perspective: she was shearing sheep, someone said not to, she decided to ignore them, she sheared more sheep, she got stabbed by the person. I can't say for certain she wasn't a griefer but I am certain you were. Fortunately this means your essential premise is correct: if you didn't learn not to stab people BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T SUBSTITUTE YOUR AUTHORITY FOR THEIR OWN, then the cursing system does not work.
For my money I like the cursing system but I'm rarely the target of it I suppose.

Is stabbing automatically griefing? By this same logic, couldn't I destroy a pen with a shovel, and then when I get stabbed, that person is the griefer, and not me? Destroying pen would fuck town completely over. She was also fucking town over. Is it really griefing killing someone who is fucking town over? Is it griefing stabbing someone who stabs another person? Why is stabbing automatically griefing? I don't get this logic.

futurebird · 2019-03-04 00:17:13

People don't always see what you are saying. She might not have understood why you were saying that to her or maybe she didn't see it at all. Stabbing is an over-reaction. She probably cursed you because she had no idea why she got stabbed.

Take the time to help people understand.

And some of the time it won't be optimal. Find other ways to help. Make more sheep food, or just find something else to do. When there are no lambs she'd learn. Look for rabbit make soup. The curse system seems fine to me. Only ever had to use it once.

nerfsnowballsnow · 2019-03-04 00:22:04

I am fully willing to teach people if they are willing to learn. I've sort of made the one warning rule since in my expereince, 99% of the time, if they don't listen to the first warning, they never will. It's a waste of time telling someone the same thing for 5 minutes and them not caring.

pein · 2019-03-04 00:29:18

people are pathetic idiots in real life too
but there they cant get ahead pretending that they are not
eventually they break, in this game hiding behind monitor they are so powerful and shit
lot of them are special snowflakes who get all so offended by everything

take an example for a popular streamer who is very bad at this game, but its popular between 12 year olds who are starting this game
so he thinks that this majority means something or influenced this game in any (good) way
he keeps repeating bullshit, that he is a good person and others are hostile
while he doesn't even gave a chance to be otherwise

those who have time to convince others to curse dont do shit in meantime but they consume
heroes who avenge their griefer moms death, are useless to society and even kill producing people cause they got an excuse
no one controls false testimonies, no one questions the framers, no way to appeal against punishments

people who don't do shit are not worth anything
people who ruin your work worth even less
its not a loss killing them
people who say killing is bad, are generally medium skill people who cant differentiate between people and play this game too generic

all in all, popular choices arent always good choices
might be that a lot of players think that berry munching is good, and expanding berries is good cause you get more food
this doesn't make it true

for example "big brother" and similar shows
people do stuff for the prize, they show a different persona cause that works better
they do controversial stuff to get attention
they justify their actions by having more people agreeing to it

what was before curses? people killed the useless persons, they could retaliate
so warning them is more than fair
griefers destroyed camps, but most griefers were unskilled in a real duel
then we got the black letters and people had an excuse to kill others without getting punished
most of times they failed cause they had no skill to do it
now they got curses, so they have some kind of power
they use this power to get revenge on people who 'control them" (generally feed them and make sure that the town works)

some streamers don't show how they play normally (like hoarding file and 4 knives and trying to stab someone for mentioning he does dumb stuff, then goes out cursing when he still loses the duel despite all the clothes and weapons)
but yeah, they are fake, they keep kids because the viewers like good parents
and they don't kill cause viewers don't like kills
or they kill cause viewers like kills, depends on viewers

in real life, people cant vote on everything
they pay taxes, they got rules
they keep the rules and they are free to do things like making others angry or trolling them even bully them
people in real life respect their parents and don't steal stuff others have

also they don't go to jury with a false testimony after they rob someone, they cant say that the person made them angry or is a griefer
they got to have proof
also the jury has an objective view, and they arent 12 year old kids

the people who actually make a difference, can and will stab you and you don't fuck around in their towns, wont let you run around asking for curses
they will stab you instead if they find out you that you lie or you keep going on for a long time
prove that you are useful or don't claim things that arent meant to be for you, know your place
framing and people who refuse to learn, healers who heal griefers and kill the killers (which also wont make sense cause then you becoem the killer, and generally a very coward act to kill someone on cooldown) are more of a problem now, than legit griefers who destroy camps and lineage killers
serial killers? you got plenty of options to stop them now with the heat nerfs and the murder cooldown, if you cant stop a killer then you deserve to be killed, all other people who are "mean" doesn't make them wrong or to deserve curses for it

in real life rprs got a name: homeless
just because you are starving, doesn't mean you are an artist

UnnoticedShadow · 2019-03-04 00:32:58

As someone who has honestly greifed in the past, I have to say the curse system does work. I've been in Donkey-town thrice, I think, and none of those times was I brought there unfairly. Although I do think it's a bit excessive on Jason's part to permanently lower peoples Donkey-town curse needed number (Down from Eight to Three minimum) It's still pretty hard to get cursed by three people in an hour, much less 6-8.

I find it pretty hard to believe you are innocent.

Last edited by UnnoticedShadow (2019-03-04 02:34:48)

Chard · 2019-03-04 00:49:32

nerfsnowballsnow wrote:

Is stabbing automatically griefing? By this same logic, couldn't I destroy a pen with a shovel, and then when I get stabbed, that person is the griefer, and not me? Destroying pen would fuck town completely over. She was also fucking town over. Is it really griefing killing someone who is fucking town over? Is it griefing stabbing someone who stabs another person? Why is stabbing automatically griefing? I don't get this logic.

If someone destroyed a pen without cause that would almost certainly be griefing. It is hard to imagine anyone not understanding the results of that action. Of course they could just be enlarging the pen, we don't know unless we talk to them. If you stabbed them over this incident you might also be a griefer. Griefing is about honest intent, not actions. But we're not talking about your "pen destroying" strawman here, we're talking about shearing sheep.

Now it seems pein might disagree with that last statement and that gets into who has moral authority and whence they derive it. If I was to shear sheep because I knew our town needed wool clothes and you were to stab because you knew the town needed mutton then who was right? Does it depend on whether the town needed clothes or mutton? It my opinion it does not, if we all acted authentically to try and bring about the outcome we thought was best then what happened was a failure to communicate. This is something we are all responsible for. But the stabbing, that was all you. You could've done more, you didn't, you just wanted them gone. If they were a griefer, fine. You admitted yourself you didn't know. And how can we know? From such a small pattern of justifiable events it would be impossible. But if they weren't a griefer then you probably ruined their game and whatever it was that they wanted to do, to their best understanding, for the good of the town.

If you think you were justified, if you think they were deliberately trying to destroy the town, good. Maybe you were hard done by. Ultimately the person with the knife gets to decide, it is the final veto. But they also bear the responsibility of deciding. In this case that responsibility sent you to donkey town. Does that make you question your actions? I can't give you the answers but from everything I've heard you acted rashly (perhaps arrogantly) and are unrepentent.

DestinyCall · 2019-03-04 01:54:00

Chard wrote:

If someone destroyed a pen without cause that would almost certainly be griefing. It is hard to imagine anyone not understanding the results of that action. Of course they could just be enlarging the pen, we don't know unless we talk to them. If you stabbed them over this incident you might also be a griefer. Griefing is about honest intent, not actions. But we're not talking about your "pen destroying" strawman here, we're talking about shearing sheep.

On the subject of destroying sheep pens ... I've been in multiple towns where I've witnessed the sheep pen get broken either by accident or by ignorance. In one case, I mis-clicked with a shovel as a child and unearthed one of the bell tower bases. I was too young to fix it, but fortunately I was able to find an adult and tell them how to repair it before the sheep escaped. In another village, we needed a stone block to finish a neucomen well and after I mentioned what I needed, I watched as my "helpful" assistant ran over and broke the sheep pen. I told her "no" and fixed it before the sheep escaped and then explained why it was wrong to do that. In another case, our sheep pen was "griefed" and after fixing the pen, I noticed that the nearby bell tower was slightly taller than before. After asking around a bit, I was able to determine that a new player had unearthed a corner of the sheep pen to get the extra block without realizing it was an essential part of the design. He seemed genuinely sorry and I don't think he had any ill intentions toward the village, even though his actions released all the sheep.

Sometimes things that seem REALLY REALLY REALLY obvious to experienced players are not actually obvious at all to someone unfamiliar with the unique mechanics of OHOL. Shearing all the sheep, killing the domestic mouflon, picking the last carrot, watering ALL the carrots at once, leaving straw or squash seeds on the ground, eating pie or berries or whatever at the wrong time or too often, hiding or sequestering knives, chopping down all the "good" trees. Sometimes these behaviors are a sign of a subtle griefer. Other times they are just signs of an uneducated or lazy player who doesn't fully appreciate the consequences of their actions.

Personally, I think murder should always be a last resort. When you have confirmed that someone is acting maliciously and their continued presence in the village is a threat to everyone there. Not just an annoyance. Not just a single stupid action, like they took the rope you needed for a bucket. They are a danger and need to be stopped. People who murder other people are high on my list of people who usually deserve to be murdered themselves. For everyone else, I try to talk to them first and explain good behavior without harsh judgement. And I try to pay attention to my neighbors (and their names) so if someone is acting "funny" I can keep tabs on them in the future to see if they are maybe just new and need some education or if they are actively griefing. More often than not, the people I suspect of being "off" end up eventually doing something that justifies intervention. But other times, they go about the rest of their life without incident and no one has to die.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-03-04 04:04:36)

futurebird · 2019-03-04 02:41:10

I agree with much of what DestinyCall has said. I just had a fun and intense game were there was a very sneaky greifer. Someone:

-got a bucket of salt water, and filled a bunch of bowls with it. Hid one bowl in the forest. (I found it and was able to empty the bucket)
-let the sheep out (80 percent certain it was not a mistake)
-stacked up all the bowls and hid them behind a yew tree

I don't know if it was one person or a few, and I had a suspect or two. Yet I didn't know. And didn't think it would be productive to yell about it. I focused on making stew, fixing the salt water, getting more sheep, if the greifer was bad, I'd be worse and just as silent undoing every little prank.

It was very satisfying.

What if I knew who it was? At the end I had a bow, but even if I knew who it was I don't think I would have killed them. That would have distracted people even more from getting the town back in shape.

No death scene for you. LOL.

Greifers want to see the big reaction to the little change, the newbies trying to use saltwater to water crops, people running and yelling.

To me being able to quickly and quietly undo their work spoils THEIR fun.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-03-03 22:09:22

Cursing system sucks.

#2 2019-03-03 22:33:17

Re: Cursing system sucks.

#3 2019-03-03 22:42:50

Re: Cursing system sucks.

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Re: Cursing system sucks.

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