Satisfaction of defending property

Glassius · 2019-04-15 20:46:34

Just stabbed a guy, it felt so good.

People took all baskets to bakery and filled with raw meat. I emptied one, then approached a guy and took my basket. I told him to give it back, he did not react. So i stabbed him. Of course other dwellers did not listen, just stabbed me instead. But it feeled so good, I died protecting my property.

Guy was collecting baskets to horse cart, for sure he wanted to make some productive gathering, most probable firewood. But that city if full of people who did not care.
* He did not care about my work and just waited nearby for me to empty it, so he could took it. There were other baskets, he just waited for mine
* I did not care about his work. He was not reasoning with me, so it was just a time to show somebody to not steal
* City did not care about my efforts to keep things organized. I asseblmed diesel engine for water pump, was about to craft oil pump gear for it

As you can see, property is still an abstract things to all commies around here

Aname · 2019-04-15 20:51:28

Greifer alert!

Glassius · 2019-04-15 20:52:56

But who was a griefer? Me, stealer or his avenger? Maybe all of us, to certain point?

Last edited by Glassius (2019-04-15 20:53:15)

Aname · 2019-04-15 20:55:34

the whole ohol is full of griefers.

the one who griefs the griefer is still a griefer.
the one who kills on accident is still a griefer.
everyone is a griefer at one point in their lifes.

Spoonwood · 2019-04-15 21:47:43

Glassius wrote:

* City did not care about my efforts to keep things organized. I asseblmed diesel engine for water pump, was about to craft oil pump gear for it

A poor and could theoretically be a risky choice if the town was old and guzzling water fast. That engine has no use without the oil. On the other hand oil can get used to upgrade a charcoal pump to a kerosone pump, so it has use as soon as it gets up. It's more water each time it gets run and less kindling. It's just one more steel made into wick housing to upgrade the charcoal pump once you have the oil up. At minimum it's 2 buckets of water to get the oil up, it varies based on chance, and the expected value is 6 buckets of water to get the oil up. Pein has recently commented that it's better to upgrade a distant pond, I think he's implying upgrading to a deep well, and import water (with multiple cisterns or at least one). Perhaps importing water from distant sources has less interest to you, but even if you want to do a diesel water pump, please do oil first.

Glassius · 2019-04-15 22:12:30

You are right about prioritizing. But my game was different, as engine was already partially made. So I decided to finish it firstly. I've made many mistakes while trying! After it, I really did not care where could I use it. I just wanted it to run!

Tarr · 2019-04-15 23:00:47

-Stabbed a guy over a basket of all things.

Yeah village probably made the right call on that one.

Glassius · 2019-04-15 23:16:30

The game currently does not allow for non-lethal violence. I would just punch him, but instead had to kill him, only because I wanted to protect my property. Me and Jason want property to become real thing in this game. It will happen only, if we defend it!

Léonard · 2019-04-16 01:02:12

Impeccable logic.

DestinyCall · 2019-04-16 01:11:25

I'm glad the town defended their basket from your misguided attempt to claim it.

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-04-16 03:53:39

Tarr wrote:

-Stabbed a guy over a basket of all things.
Yeah village probably made the right call on that one.

I agree with tarr here, you cant own tools in this game. I dont think tarr has ever stabbed anyone for taking his cars or planes(not 100% sure though) and thats the most advanced and time consuming tool we have.

Now if someone tried to take your pants from you or the contents of your bag, then yeah go for it, cause for however long you have those things, they will be yours.

futurebird · 2019-04-16 04:05:28

Sounds like you kinda lost control...

DestinyCall · 2019-04-16 06:35:03

Grim_Arbiter wrote:

Now if someone tried to take your pants from you or the contents of your bag, then yeah go for it, cause for however long you have those things, they will be yours.

Unless you are a kid. Children have no property rights at all. You can even take their clothes.

Or at least, swap them for an inferior replacement.

Jk Howling · 2019-04-16 06:47:28

If it was so easy for him to be able to find a different basket, why isn't it equally easy for you to..? From what you said, there were plenty of baskets, they just had mutton in them. It's not hard to empty them. Or better yet, grab a cart and go on a basket run to a nearby swamp.. Or make one with the local wheat!

Point is, you can get another basket. He shouldn't have just grabbed something someone was using, sure, but there's no need to stab someone over it lmao- especially something as low-tech and easy to craft as a basket. You're just adding to the griefing problem that's already prevalent in this game. Trying to justify it because "he took MY basket reeeee" is only making things worse in the public eye.

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-04-16 07:36:36

DestinyCall wrote:

Grim_Arbiter wrote:
Now if someone tried to take your pants from you or the contents of your bag, then yeah go for it, cause for however long you have those things, they will be yours.

Unless you are a kid. Children have no property rights at all. You can even take their clothes.

Or at least, swap them for an inferior replacement.

Just like real life. Is it right to take candy from a baby? Probably a hefty no, but there's a reason for that expression. Babies are friggin helpless.

Psykout · 2019-04-16 08:24:11

Glassius wrote:

The game currently does not allow for non-lethal violence. I would just punch him, but instead had to kill him, only because I wanted to protect my property. Me and Jason want property to become real thing in this game. It will happen only, if we defend it!

It's the fact that you were seeking violence over a rather mundane event is the point. Doesn't matter what level of violence was used, or what level you wish you could have used, you still wanted to use violence to teach a lesson. You have lowered yourself and we are kindly pointing it out. Also you mentioned you were frustrated because a group of anonymous people playing a game together online did not value your personal efforts on the same level you did. Another slightly cringe worthy point honestly.

If you hope was for an echo chamber and general agreement, this was not the venue you should have chosen.

As to property, pretty sure Jason is mulling that one over to give us a better tool against griefing other than kill on sight.

breezeknight · 2019-04-16 09:06:05

Glassius goes to the dark side
bad bad bad

i stabbed the last time one guy mistakenly, because he stabbed someone, but he stabbed a griefing murderer who shot someone
so for now i return to my not stabbing routine, but that's oc just me

- - -

Bob 101 · 2019-04-16 09:24:10

Roleplaying ownership= Griefing.

That's called hiding shit away so others can't use.

Besides you probably stole it yourself, People rarely make baskets. If you did actually make them then It'd be a different.

Last edited by Bob 101 (2019-04-16 09:26:31)

The_Anabaptist · 2019-04-16 09:35:02

I'm with you Glassius on this one. If your account is correct you: #1 Emptied the basket, indicating that you were using it in the other player's view. #2 When basket was taken, you verbalized that you wanted the basket back. In this case, you could have done #3 retrieved any one of the baskets from the cart. #4 At which point if he/she took it again, stabbing would have been 100% fully justified.

This is not griefing people, learn boundaries.

The_Anabaptist

Bob 101 · 2019-04-16 11:09:07

The_Anabaptist wrote:

I'm with you Glassius on this one. If your account is correct you: #1 Emptied the basket, indicating that you were using it in the other player's view. #2 When basket was taken, you verbalized that you wanted the basket back. In this case, you could have done #3 retrieved any one of the baskets from the cart. #4 At which point if he/she took it again, stabbing would have been 100% fully justified.
This is not griefing people, learn boundaries.
The_Anabaptist

Or learn to share and not kill over 2 straw.

DestinyCall · 2019-04-16 14:35:03

Bob 101 wrote:

Besides you probably stole it yourself, People rarely make baskets. If you did actually make them then It'd be a different.

Not really. Baskets are baskets. Not worth killing over. If he had formed an unhealthy emotional attachment to that particular basket, he could have just run over and swapped a different basket for "his" basket. I doubt the other guy cared enough to fight a crazy guy for his "special" basket.

Psykout · 2019-04-16 17:56:49

Bob 101 wrote:

Or learn to share and not kill over 2 straw.

Yeah..... /endthread

Glassius · 2019-04-16 21:43:59

What I see here is you folks dont understand my motives. I am NOT killing people taking things in front of me just like that. In most cases, almost always, the stealer is communicating with me. Says something like "Can I take it?", "I need it for...", "Sry". If it does not happen, I start following that person questioning and almost everyone answers me.

This guy was different. There were multiple baskets around, yet he decided to wait untill I emptied one, then stole it without explanation and ignored my communication efforts. I was framed in the role of fruiting milkweed, soulless resource you can use as you wish. I do not agree to treat others that way and I won't allow to be treated this way if I can react.

Now, after longer thougths, I see I could just stole his horse cart to stop this person and really force him to communicate. I feel sorry I did not developed this idea in time, but I do not regret I reacted.

Also, I feel fully justified for below reasons:
1. Jason wished weapons will be used to counter people ruining your gameplay experience. It's illogical to call griefing an action suggested by developer
2. I pointed out a need for non lethal violence. I agree stabbing others is too much a punishment for stealing, but we have limited alternatives.
3. I pointed out a communication improvements which can lead to better understandement and reasoning: blessings, golden speak bubbles, hugging, empty bubble with pending text and moving mouths to indicate someone is typing. As we do not have it now, the strongest way to make somebody listen is to attack. It happened to me once someone was very strongly disrupting my work believing he is doing great job. I stabbed that person right next to medic, then the hole city arrived and was questioning me. I left unharmed, not cursed, I saw before death from old age even person I stabbed focused on the aim I pointed out! Magic
4. The ingame morality is completely different from real life and it seems I am playing a little different game from you guys. Let's analyze it from game theory perspective

This is your game: single life, someone steals basket, only possible reaction is killing.
Kill output: you waste time chasing, being blocked by murder penalty and you risk being questioned and also killed. One possible reward greater than costs: satisfaction.
Let it go output: you make another basket without the killing problems.

This is my game: multiple lifes, someone steals basket, only possible reaction is killing
Kill output: All the things from single life game. Longterm, in next lives, making others double think before stealing and making them consider communication
Let it go output: minor problems in this particular life. Longterm, encouraging the stealing culture and arrogancy toward other players.

DestinyCall · 2019-04-16 21:54:22

You seem to be working from the assumption that killing is the only option available. That is a false assumption and frankly, kind of lazy. This isn't even just a question of morality. Murder takes too much time, from you and everyone around you. Do you realize how much time you waste killing people? How inefficient it is? And speaking of arrogance toward other players, it is incredibly arrogant of you to assume that your basket is more valuable than another working villager. By killing someone over a minor inconvience, you are hurting your village and not "teaching" anyone a valuable lesson about communication. If anything, you might be encouraging that player to turn to griefing in his next life.

It is just a basket. Go get another one.

If baskets are so precious in your village that you can't afford to share ... make more baskets. Your children will benefit from the excess baskets and no one had to die, waste pads, or spend time working out who is the real griefer.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-04-16 22:06:52)

Glassius · 2019-04-16 22:08:25

DestinyCall wrote:

You seem to be working from the assumption that killing is the only option available. That is a false assumption and frankly, kind of lazy.

You didn't put alternative, so you argument is invalid. I understand moralizing is easier than being constructive.

DestinyCall wrote:

Do you realize how much time you waste killing people? How inefficient it is?

If you would read my last post, you wouldn't ask this stupid question I've already answered.

As you can see, even in forum we are lacking communication and understandment.

Last edited by Glassius (2019-04-16 22:09:01)

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#1 2019-04-15 20:46:34

Satisfaction of defending property

#2 2019-04-15 20:51:28

Re: Satisfaction of defending property

#3 2019-04-15 20:52:56

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#4 2019-04-15 20:55:34

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#5 2019-04-15 21:47:43

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#6 2019-04-15 22:12:30

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#7 2019-04-15 23:00:47

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