Making the sword visible and fixing the akward PVP at the same time.

Dodge · 2019-05-12 07:50:00

Currently you can hide swords and be like a sneaky assassin that draws it's weapon just before killing.

Carrying swords only in carts would be annoying and a little ridiculous (swordsman walking around with a cart everywhere he goes).

Also the current PVP system is really awkward, a sword fight looks like a clown fiesta where everyone drops their weapon on the floor trying to kill an invisible ghost.

What if you could only contain the sword in a holster (scabbard).

The sword couldnt be dropped on the floor with right click and right click would be exclusively for fighting, so no dropping on the ground when fighting anymore.

To drop the sword you would need to put it in a holster then drop the holster with sword on the ground.

This would make fighting way better and at the same time the holster would be visible so no hiding sword in bp behind hair or wathever.

There is still the issue that if you get hit by a snowball, or stabbed/shot or die with weapon in hand then you have a sword without holster and someone picking it up couldnt drop it.

Maybe if you hold a sword without a holster on you, you could drop the sword with right click and if you have a holster you put the sword in it first.

Or maybe you couldnt even have a sword without a holster, and being forced to drop the sword would make you drop the holster with it, and it would be unseparable objects when on the ground.

A scabbard:

jinbaili83 · 2019-05-12 12:16:47

A belt/harnes that replaces backpack and can store single weapon/tool or shield.
Swich between sword/shield to attack/block.
Same for guns unloaded can be hidden in small container but ready to use only in holster.

Dodge · 2019-05-12 13:02:02

Dont think it should replace backpack otherwise you would need to constantly interupt a fight to find food, it's true that knights rarely wore backpacks, not because they couldn't but probably because someone else was carrying their stuff.

jinbaili83 · 2019-05-12 13:13:21

You can keep pie in apron or shorts. Backpack and weapon storage would be op.

Dodge · 2019-05-12 14:02:08

Why OP? If you can put a pie in shorts might as well have a backpack.

CatX · 2019-05-12 14:31:50

I would like to see a change where if you try to place a sword in your backpack but misclick, you stab yourself...

jasonrohrer · 2019-05-12 15:29:48

I'd like to consider solutions that can be done in-engine first.

You can't currently trigger a transition by clicking clothing with something that's in your hand, and containers (like clothing containers) can't currently limit themselves to one specific object.

Thus, to implement this in-engine, there would be a sheath on the sword, and you'd right click to drop the sheath on the ground, and the sword would come out. Then the sword would be stuck in your hand until you clicked the sheath again on the ground. That would eliminate the dropping-while-fighting problem. Of course, this would cause all kinds of other problems (can't find a sheath to drop your sword into, starve to death.)

(The reason for the dropping when stabbing, by the way, is we can't trust the client to be truthful about hit detection, so sometimes the client and server disagree about who was standing in the tile that you clicked on.... though I'm not sure why the server is interpreting a missed KILL action as a drop... that might be a bug).

jasonrohrer · 2019-05-12 15:39:41

Just tested it, and as long as you actually right-click the person (and not the ground), you won't drop the sword, even if the server believes the target person is long-gone. Your KILL action will simply fail to do anything.

So I'm pretty sure that dropping the sword accidentally requires mis-clicking on the ground.

jasonrohrer · 2019-05-12 15:40:34

By the way, this is NOT meant to be a combat game. Obviously, the controls/latency/etc were not designed for that.

SavageOgre · 2019-05-12 15:42:20

why does the scabbard have to be dropped on the ground? why not just keep it on your waist

Dodge · 2019-05-12 15:51:12

There might be a bug when server disagrees, but actually missing the person would still make you drop the weapon.

How about you cant pick up a sword on the ground but you can only pick it up if it's in a sheath, to pick up the sword you put the sheath on the sword.

Or the sheath doesn't act as a container but as an object, a sword is actually a "sword without sheath", then we have the sheath that is "sheath without sword" and finally the "sword in sheath".

You cant pick up the "sword without sheath" from the ground, so no risk of taking a sword that you couldnt drop (it doesnt go in container also)

To take the sword only the transition with the hand + "sword in sheath" would work

"sword in sheath" can be worn or put in cart, boxes etc. "sheath without sword" could be too, but not the "sword without sheath" to avoid situation where you put a sword in a container and cant pick it back up.

Would that work?

Tarr · 2019-05-12 15:52:09

jasonrohrer wrote:

I'd like to consider solutions that can be done in-engine first.
You can't currently trigger a transition by clicking clothing with something that's in your hand, and containers (like clothing containers) can't currently limit themselves to one specific object.
Thus, to implement this in-engine, there would be a sheath on the sword, and you'd right click to drop the sheath on the ground, and the sword would come out. Then the sword would be stuck in your hand until you clicked the sheath again on the ground. That would eliminate the dropping-while-fighting problem. Of course, this would cause all kinds of other problems (can't find a sheath to drop your sword into, starve to death.)

Then why can you contain them in backpacks/shorts/apron in the first place? It makes no sense to have the ability to drop a bloody sword AND to be able to carry a maximum of six at a time. Pein already proved that having the ability to drop bloody weapons with a backpack full of knives was a bad idea so why should carrying six swords make any sense?

How many swords do you carry around in your apron at a time? Or pockets let alone backpack unsheated? A sword shouldn't be some assassin weapon that you hide until you're ready to strike it should be a "I am a threat to your existence" sort of situation.

It's bad enough you released them in the state you did (did you really think that was a good idea? Releasing something in a state that you had to fix while you were off on vacation?) like I understand you wanting to push your fence agenda but it feels like you have a heavy detachment from the game when you release things in such a state.

Dodge · 2019-05-12 16:20:50

And for the bloody sword it would be "bloody sword in sheath", you could put it in the sheath but not draw it back until it's not bloody anymore, and you couldnt drop the bloody sword on the ground.

So the only way to mass murder would be to bring a cart full of "sword in sheath" then kill, put bloody sword in sheath and take a new sword in sheath from cart.

Or maybe the "bloody sword in sheath" couldnt even be picked up, so you cant drop it and take a new one, this would prevent easy mass murders.

RedComb · 2019-05-12 16:44:55

jasonrohrer wrote:

By the way, this is NOT meant to be a combat game. Obviously, the controls/latency/etc were not designed for that.

Yeah, okay. It's not meant to be a combat game, but you put weapons in the hands of griefers that have the sole purpose of killing strangers, letting them mass murder whole towns for fun, and then limit meaningful communication between the different groups (while creating racially distinct tribes who can't communicate with each other and will come to inherently distrust strangers after associating mass killings with outsiders). Not to mention taking away the anti-griefing "curse" mechanic which is pretty much your game's only remedy for players to address bad actors.

All of that is a recipe for xenophobic conflict and, by proxy, a need for combat and to always be on edge.

War swords, distinct racial groups, and language barriers prime the pump for conflict and the inevitable result is going to be a combat-centric experience. If anybody wants to accomplish anything and not see their hard work and time spent wasted in the blink of an eye, they will have to be ever vigilant and capable of fighting at a moment's notice should any stranger approach... They will also have to rely on their lineage to be equally vigilant, which leads to internal strife and blame casting for things like nobody being willing to go on watch or building fences/etc

Resources, time, and effort that were devoted to building things and just enjoying the unique experience that your game provided will be spent instead on building war swords, erecting fences, and obligating people to spend boring stints as sentries and "defenders" against attacks that might never come (not to mention the time, effort, and resources that will go into feeding these specialized "defense forces"/militia who won't be able to fully devote themselves to farming, trapping or other productive activities that people enjoy doing in the game).

Some people might think that sounds great, but as somebody who has spent hundreds of hours watching towers and tracking the movements of enemy zergs in GW2's WvW game mode, I can assure you there is a reason VERY FEW people scout any more after years of playing WvW (the chief reason being it is boring, often thankless, and you get burnt out on doing the same activity all the time.. although the same people often wind up scouting because they realize how important it is and would rather be bored to tears scouting than play on a map where enemies can take upgraded structures without any response or resistance).

All this war sword/language/racial-lock update does is empowers people to grief and kill for fun, and the kinds of people who get off on ruining other people's fun won't mind dealing with the idiosyncratic controls of your game if it means they get to slaughter people, but those of us who find the simple controls cumbersome (especially when it comes to combat), or those of us who were attracted to the game for reasons other than conflict and killing, will simply give up and not even bother.

Seriously, if I wanted to feel this kind of antagonistic dread when a stranger approaches in a FFA pvp type situation, I'd go play a game with a much more robust control scheme that makes it very clear you are going to be in for some FFA pvp, like say RUST or ARK (and even those games have the option of pve servers for the very reason that the devs understand that not everybody is looking for their time spent gaming to stress them out and reinforce their worst fears about humanity).

Furthermore, I have the real world to look at if I want to immerse myself in barbarity, senseless violence, xenophobia, and racism. Why in the world would I seek out entertainment that emulates the same kind of toxicity that I think has stunted human progress?

The description on Steam and the OHOL homepage, as well a the trailer on Steam, doesn't communicate ANYTHING about xenophobia or racism or war swords. It comes across as a very sandbox building-centric type game with an emphasis on rebuilding society (and a novel hook of your life being brief and your contribution being more about passing something down that makes things easier for the next generations to come).

How war and killing and building walls to keep out outsiders fits into any of that is beyond me, but as others have said here, you have your creative vision and somehow all of this fits into that vision.

As a person and a gamer, I have no interest in exploring the cynical and baser aspects of the human condition while playing a game like OHOL. I get enough of that from the real world or from playing games that are very clearly advertised for being just that kind of experience.

I apologize for the wall of text, but this is my genuine take on all of this. I only recently purchased this game and have only even started to scratch the surface of what it offers. To say I'm disappointed with such an abrupt change is an understatement. I was barely getting my feet wet and it feels like you just grabbed me and threw me into the deep end because "muh vision" or something.... I understand that people who have been playing for a year probably welcome the change and the new content, but this is pretty shocking from a new player's perspective, especially considering I saw no indication on Steam or in Twisted's YT videos that this is the direction you intended to take this game.

Last edited by RedComb (2019-05-12 17:06:30)

wondible · 2019-05-12 17:23:52

Not a sheath exactly, but how about making sword a medium item (cart size, no pockets/backpacks), but adding a piece of clothing (probably backpack variant) that holds one medium item, preferably in a position where the item can't be hidden by hair etc. That would make it hard to hide a sword, but still possible to eat without dropping your weapon where someone could pick it up and kill you. It might have additional utility for other tasks as well.

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2019-05-12 17:42:37

We're still discussing this on discord...Here's my idea for implementing it within the boundaries of the engine. Dont' make the scabbard or sheath a "container" make it a crafting item - like the landing strip changes the airplane into a "landed airplane". Scabbard plus sword equals sheathed sword.

I don't get the clothing restriction - we can craft items after wearing them all the time. Maybe only the "sheathed sword" can be worn as a back slot item, but the scabbard and the sword aren't clothing on their own. My preference would be the scabbard is a back slot clothing item and the sheathed sword is a backslot item. Then make the sword only fit into carts - size three containers. Taking the scabbard off to put the sword in or pull it out wouldn't be that big a deal, IMHO.

Dodge · 2019-05-13 16:31:59

Dodge wrote:

There might be a bug when server disagrees, but actually missing the person would still make you drop the weapon.
How about you cant pick up a sword on the ground but you can only pick it up if it's in a sheath, to pick up the sword you put the sheath on the sword.
Or the sheath doesn't act as a container but as an object, a sword is actually a "sword without sheath", then we have the sheath that is "sheath without sword" and finally the "sword in sheath".
You cant pick up the "sword without sheath" from the ground, so no risk of taking a sword that you couldnt drop (it doesnt go in container also)
To take the sword only the transition with the hand + "sword in sheath" would work
"sword in sheath" can be worn or put in cart, boxes etc. "sheath without sword" could be too, but not the "sword without sheath" to avoid situation where you put a sword in a container and cant pick it back up.
Would that work?

Bump

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-05-12 07:50:00

Making the sword visible and fixing the akward PVP at the same time.

#2 2019-05-12 12:16:47

Re: Making the sword visible and fixing the akward PVP at the same time.

#3 2019-05-12 13:02:02

Re: Making the sword visible and fixing the akward PVP at the same time.

#4 2019-05-12 13:13:21

Re: Making the sword visible and fixing the akward PVP at the same time.

#5 2019-05-12 14:02:08

Re: Making the sword visible and fixing the akward PVP at the same time.

#6 2019-05-12 14:31:50

Re: Making the sword visible and fixing the akward PVP at the same time.

#7 2019-05-12 15:29:48

Re: Making the sword visible and fixing the akward PVP at the same time.

#8 2019-05-12 15:39:41

Re: Making the sword visible and fixing the akward PVP at the same time.

#9 2019-05-12 15:40:34

Re: Making the sword visible and fixing the akward PVP at the same time.

#10 2019-05-12 15:42:20

Re: Making the sword visible and fixing the akward PVP at the same time.

#11 2019-05-12 15:51:12

Re: Making the sword visible and fixing the akward PVP at the same time.

#12 2019-05-12 15:52:09

Re: Making the sword visible and fixing the akward PVP at the same time.

#13 2019-05-12 16:20:50

Re: Making the sword visible and fixing the akward PVP at the same time.

#14 2019-05-12 16:44:55

Re: Making the sword visible and fixing the akward PVP at the same time.

#15 2019-05-12 17:23:52

Re: Making the sword visible and fixing the akward PVP at the same time.

#16 2019-05-12 17:42:37

Re: Making the sword visible and fixing the akward PVP at the same time.

#17 2019-05-13 16:31:59

Re: Making the sword visible and fixing the akward PVP at the same time.

Board footer