Abuse by Griefers

Arcurus · 2020-09-25 15:05:30

DestinyCall wrote:

Oh Arcurus, you weren't here for the really wild days of old. Once upon a time, all you needed to do to kill someone was pick up the knife and left-click. No age restrictions. No murder-cooldown. No [Gasp!] or murder-face to warn your victim of your murderous intentions. No posse requirement in populated areas. Nothing at all.
Just pick up knife. Stabbity-stab-stab-stab. Everyone dead. On to the next town!
When I joined the game, Jason had added age restrictions to prevent toddler serial killers and a murder cooldown that left a killer slowed down and holding a bloody murder weapon after killing someone, so the village would have a little bit of time to realize that they were being slaughtered. This helped give people a chance to respond, but it didn't do that much good if the village only had one knife and the killer as holding it. It also lead to "murder-chains" where one random killing would be avenged by somebody with a knife only for the "hero" to get accused of murder and stabbed as well. Then someone would come upon the scene and see two dead bodies, raise the cry "serial killer!" and kill the guy holding the knife. I've been in towns where the entire adult population was wiped out by murder chains.
Changing the kill-command to shift-right click was done to eliminate the problem of putting down weapons inside the village, since random people might walk onto the tile and get knifed or shot with a bow by accident, simply because the floors were too crowded with random junk.
...
I've talked about this in the other thread, but I don't think that killing should auto-curse. Don't be lazy. If you kill someone, take a few seconds to curse them if you think they deserve it. The two actions are better as separate mechanics. Linking them together makes it harder to adjust them, if necessary. And if cursing is supposed to punish the bad players, I don't think we should be punishing victims for getting killed by griefers, for example. If you are killing a griefer, it is not that hard to also decide to curse them, before or after the act of killing.

Lol yea, i joined closely after the starvation update... I remember my mother saying: Oh kid all the noobs dont know how to yum and starve to death...

I think in this time killing without a posse was possible, but i did not try it out and actually never was killed.

But i looked at many of the videos from the old times and got tons and tons of feedback since then, so i can understand both sides.

With the murder problem for the one killing the murderer, i guess now with the leader system it would be easy, you just inform before the leader.

Maybe if the leader exiles him first you could look not that much like a murderer so others know who is the true murderer

With having curses and so on separate, maybe you are right to keep at least curses separate, but currently there are so many mechanics out there that you must be a true vet to understand them all.

Therefore i was thinking if it would be for most players more easy if they happen more by default. I mean first of all why do you want to kill some one if you still want to play together with him?

In case you dont want to curse him you still could forgive him...

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-09-25 15:09:41)

DestinyCall · 2020-09-25 15:36:59

Arcurus wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:
So what outlet are you suggesting that would appeal to griefers and NOT ruin the game for everyone else?
Because last time I checked, "enjoys ruining the game for everyone else" is the core description of a griefer.

I think he suggest that they will more do the non hidden stuff like murder and then be murdered themselves instead of the now quite hidden griefing where they kill a hole village by destroying their resources.
by the way, why not have a purge once a week or so where many killing limits are lifted like the romans did in former times:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B4_K1EL6Hs
I would suggest Saturday, since so or so normally there is a reset at Saturday and Saturday actually stands for Saturn, which is connected to the roman celebration of Saturnalia, which in away was a purge...
And once a month a big purge, where all killing limits and all curses are lifted...
Of course killing by skill like it was before should be activated again during this purges...
The benefit of this would be, that we can try out different mechanics and also the "griefer" class could get rid of their excess grief and express it. I guess this would help also, like in roman times, make the rules more acceptable, since you know how it is without them...

Oh my goodness, Arcurus, The Purge is not a historical documentary. It is a shlock horror film. The Roman festival of Saturnalia might have served as inspiration for the films, but it was not a yearly murderfest where you were allowed to do "anything" you wanted to do and everyone was encouraged to purge their repressed destructive urges so they could more easily act normal the rest of the year. It was a pretty normal ancient holiday, but with hookers and blackjack. Also, it was the pagan ancestor of Christmas. Sadly, there were a few changes between then and now.

"During Saturnalia, work and business came to a halt. Schools and courts of law closed, and the normal social patterns were suspended.
People decorated their homes with wreaths and other greenery, and shed their traditional togas in favor of colorful clothes known as synthesis. Even slaves did not have to work during Saturnalia, but were allowed to participate in the festivities; in some cases, they sat at the head of the table while their masters served them.
Instead of working, Romans spent Saturnalia gambling, singing, playing music, feasting, socializing and giving each other gifts. Wax taper candles called cerei were common gifts during Saturnalia, to signify light returning after the solstice.
On the last day of Saturnalia celebrations, known as the Sigillaria, many Romans gave their friends and loved ones small terracotta figurines known as signillaria, which may have referred back to older celebrations involving human sacrifice.
Saturnalia was by far the jolliest Roman holiday; the Roman poet Catullus famously described it as “the best of times.” So riotous were the festivities that the Roman author Pliny reportedly built a soundproof room so that he could work during the raucous celebrations."

https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-rome/saturnalia

By the way, it is rather fitting of you to suggest Saturday, considering that is literally Saturn's day. The same God who was celebrated during Saturnalia :-)

...

Also, the idea that you can "purge" your bad urges by giving into them occasionally is pseudo-science.

I've had training for helping people in recovery from drug addiction and a big part of recovery involves processing self-destructive urges in a healthy way. This typically involves recognizing that you are capable of resisting your urges, even very strong ones, and that they can be overcome. It also means recognizing that having urges is a normal part of life. You can't "get rid of" your bad urges completely. That is not a realistic goal. Nobody is perfect and everyone has moments of weakness. Good days and bad days. You can't control having urges, but you can choose how you will respond to them. Addiction involves patterns of behavior that are self-reinforcing. To change the undesirable behavior, you must break away from the pattern ... not encourage it.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2020-09-25 15:50:27)

Arcurus · 2020-09-25 15:51:01

DestinyCall wrote:

Oh my goodness, Arcurus, The Purge is not a historical documentary. It is a shlock horror film. The Roman festival of Saturnalia might have served as inspiration for the films, but it was not a yearly murderfest where you were allowed to do "anything" you wanted to do and everyone was encouraged to purge your destructive urges so they could more easily act normal the rest of the year. It was a pretty normal holiday, but with hookers and blackjack. Also, it was the pagan ancestor of Christmas. Sadly, there were a few changes between then and now.
"During Saturnalia, work and business came to a halt. Schools and courts of law closed, and the normal social patterns were suspended.
People decorated their homes with wreaths and other greenery, and shed their traditional togas in favor of colorful clothes known as synthesis. Even slaves did not have to work during Saturnalia, but were allowed to participate in the festivities; in some cases, they sat at the head of the table while their masters served them.
Instead of working, Romans spent Saturnalia gambling, singing, playing music, feasting, socializing and giving each other gifts. Wax taper candles called cerei were common gifts during Saturnalia, to signify light returning after the solstice.
On the last day of Saturnalia celebrations, known as the Sigillaria, many Romans gave their friends and loved ones small terracotta figurines known as signillaria, which may have referred back to older celebrations involving human sacrifice.
Saturnalia was by far the jolliest Roman holiday; the Roman poet Catullus famously described it as “the best of times.” So riotous were the festivities that the Roman author Pliny reportedly built a soundproof room so that he could work during the raucous celebrations."
https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-rome/saturnalia
By the way, it is rather fitting of you to suggest Saturday, considering that is literally Saturn's day. The same God who was celebrated during Saturnalia :-)

...

yea, maybe celebrating Saturnalia is a better way of describing it, but one part is still to have less rules on this day. This makes the rules the other days more acceptable, since you know how it is without them and if its happen to be better without them you also know.

As said for the "normal" Saturnalia i would suggest to let the curses mostly in place, but allow one and one skill based combat without much restrictions.

So we can also compare and finetune better different more free mechanics vs more restricted mechanics.

Still i think this video about Saturnalia is quite interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B4_K1EL6Hs

Eve Troll · 2020-09-25 18:06:14

What about if instead of families going to war, individuals could volunteer to be warriors. Similar to the war mechanic only warriors would be able to attack warriors. That way people who enjoy playing that way could play with each other while keeping the overall impact to a minimum.

Babies would be cancelled on warriors. Spawn weight redirected to the other females. A limit to how many female could register to avoid fams being killed off by a bunch of people turning into warriors. Age limit to join and the option to become a warrior would open immediately upon becoming infertile.

A bit half baked but i could see this kind of thing attracting griefer player types and would give them an outlet thats spicey enough to deter them from messing with people who dont want to be involved.

Perhaps they dont even kill each other. Maybe its something like they knock each other out for a few seconds. Knockouts would have a cool down to avoid getting stun locked. For each knockout you get a point. The person with the highest points is given some title and a special badge. When they die it goes to the player with the next highest points.

Last edited by Eve Troll (2020-09-25 18:17:53)

Arcurus · 2020-09-25 18:25:25

Eve Troll wrote:

What about if instead of families going to war, individuals could volunteer to be warriors. Similar to the war mechanic only warriors would be able to attack warriors. That way people who enjoy playing that way could play with each other while keeping the overall impact to a minimum.
Babies would be cancelled on warriors. Spawn weight redirected to the other females. A limit to how many female could register to avoid fams being killed off by a bunch of people turning into warriors. Age limit to join and the option to become a warrior would open immediately upon becoming infertile.
A bit half baked but i could see this kind of thing attracting griefer player types and would give them an outlet thats spicey enough to deter them from messing with people who dont want to be involved.
Perhaps they dont even kill each other. Maybe its something like they knock each other out for a few seconds. Knockouts would have a cool down to avoid getting stun locked. For each knockout you get a point. The person with the highest points is given some title and a special badge. When they die it goes to the player with the next highest points.

sounds interesting, but if infertile you need also to limit what they can craft (to age 3?). Otherwise some will use this as tool to get infertile.

Also the combat for them should be some way skill based.

DestinyCall · 2020-09-25 19:32:24

I wouldn't be opposed to a more developed combat system to allow war-minded individuals to practice their fighting skills in a socially acceptable manner. It opens up the opportunity for new stories and interesting game-play opportunities.

I am a wimpy pacifist, so I doubt that I will be joining in on the fighting myself - I'm here more for Stardew Valley, rather than Gears of War. But if a better combat system gives PvP oriented players someone to kill that is happy to live and die by the sword, then I don't see a problem there.

I know several of our longtime players were sad to see Jason nerf the old knife dance. Auto-lock and murder-face really killed any element of skill. It is all about who clicks first now and if your posse is big enough. No dodging. No defense. No skill required. This strongly favors first strike aggression, offense being the best (or only) defense, other than running away.

A better developed combat system that allowed both attacker and defender to have a more balanced, skill-oriented chance at success would nice, I think.

...

That being said, I don't think this would solve the griefer problem. It wouldn't even solve the murder problem. Some people turn to griefing because they are bored. And some of those people likely would be attracted to the role of warrior and use it as a path to enjoy the game with other people in a more positive way. But some people will inevitably use whatever tools for war we are given to mess with innocent people and break the game, if they can. And others will not be satisfied with killing warriors that have an equal opportunity to defend. They will keep kidnapping babies and drowned kittens to feel more powerful.

When you get right down to it, if you are looking for a good war game, you have a million choices that support your desired outlet. So if you are here in OHOL, killing defenseless villagers for fun ... maybe you are not actually looking for a fair fight.

Maybe you just want to watch the world burn.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2020-09-25 19:33:39)

Eve Troll · 2020-09-25 19:55:03

Yea i feel you destiny. It wont likely solve the problem, not sure anything will, but it could potentially alleviate it some. Pvp is a pretty huge part of most survival games so i think a lot of players coming in expect a similar thing in ohol. Raids and griefers are super common in games like ark and rust.

I think there will always be a small niche that purely wants to ruin other people's experience. But i think they will be rare and will be easier to manage when its only a few still playing like that.

Before the kill mechanic change 90% of the griefing i saw was just random stabbings and griefers being dramatic. It was super rare i ran into one that was sabotaging the town. Obviously engine scrapping and removing engines from wells hasnt helped. There probably should be some QOL change to make those risks less likely. (Only elders can scrap engines, chain an engine to a well that require an elder removal notice, etc)

I think some people just want blood. If we can give them what they desire and in a way that doesnt damage anyone else's experience i think thats a win for everyone. One person going to war against another is two less people who might have been inclined to grief.

Spoonwood · 2020-09-25 20:09:43

Arcurus wrote:

Eve Troll wrote:
What about if instead of families going to war, individuals could volunteer to be warriors. Similar to the war mechanic only warriors would be able to attack warriors. That way people who enjoy playing that way could play with each other while keeping the overall impact to a minimum.
Babies would be cancelled on warriors. Spawn weight redirected to the other females. A limit to how many female could register to avoid fams being killed off by a bunch of people turning into warriors. Age limit to join and the option to become a warrior would open immediately upon becoming infertile.
A bit half baked but i could see this kind of thing attracting griefer player types and would give them an outlet thats spicey enough to deter them from messing with people who dont want to be involved.
Perhaps they dont even kill each other. Maybe its something like they knock each other out for a few seconds. Knockouts would have a cool down to avoid getting stun locked. For each knockout you get a point. The person with the highest points is given some title and a special badge. When they die it goes to the player with the next highest points.
sounds interesting, but if infertile you need also to limit what they can craft (to age 3?). Otherwise some will use this as tool to get infertile.
Also the combat for them should be some way skill based.

Being outside of one's homeland blocks fertility. There's only so much one can craft in a life. Why would a greater limit on crafting be needed?

I think tanking such warriors genetic score by making that choice appropriate, since they don't want a game of parenting and civilization building and I don't think warriors leading towns is a good idea. Warrior types aren't likely to get an Eve spawn also. Over time, they end up more likely to starve if they don't learn how to eat well. They're brave warriors anyways, right? They'd consume more water (the infamous one bucket of water for a sword more likely to occur) and soil.

Warriors killing each other seems appropriate to me, since it would make things more spicey.

To avoid things becoming harder on the town, because of warriors, maybe teleport them via the warrior command to some far away location like planes do?

Gogo · 2020-09-25 21:52:00

Old cursing system was better, if you received enough curses you should be send to donkey town, period.

Rookwood · 2020-09-25 21:54:55

I like the current curse system but I wish it also blocked you from being born to a person you have cursed. That is the worst.

Eve Troll · 2020-09-26 03:21:36

I agree gogo. Old system was way better but 1 hour wasnt enough punishment for 1 curse over eight. Maybe 5 hours per curse over 8, played in game?

Gogo · 2020-09-26 13:24:55

It won't come back @Eve Troll, griefers were cursing streamers to piss them off and ease the curse system. Sorry.

DestinyCall · 2020-09-26 15:23:17

One griefer was cursing a streamer and posting about it on the forums, yes. I never got the impression it was all that common of a problem.

One Hour One Life Forums

#101 2020-09-25 15:05:30

Re: Abuse by Griefers

#102 2020-09-25 15:36:59

Re: Abuse by Griefers

#103 2020-09-25 15:51:01

Re: Abuse by Griefers

#104 2020-09-25 18:06:14

Re: Abuse by Griefers

#105 2020-09-25 18:25:25

Re: Abuse by Griefers

#106 2020-09-25 19:32:24

Re: Abuse by Griefers

#107 2020-09-25 19:55:03

Re: Abuse by Griefers

#108 2020-09-25 20:09:43

Re: Abuse by Griefers

#109 2020-09-25 21:52:00

Re: Abuse by Griefers

#110 2020-09-25 21:54:55

Re: Abuse by Griefers

#111 2020-09-26 03:21:36

Re: Abuse by Griefers

#112 2020-09-26 13:24:55

Re: Abuse by Griefers

#113 2020-09-26 15:23:17

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