Rat race

Caprys · 2020-10-20 18:26:56

It just feels like a rat race going west too fast.

DestinyCall · 2020-10-20 18:27:49

Race restrictions should be removed.

Caprys · 2020-10-20 18:34:51

DestinyCall wrote:

Race restrictions should be removed.

I don't know, but something is wrong and it needs to be fixed.

Spoonwood · 2020-10-20 18:45:26

DestinyCall wrote:

Race restrictions should be removed.

Remove those and spreading out isn't an issue. Also, spreading out can resolve the longstanding lack of rebuilding from scratch issue.

I don't see anything about "trade" on Steam, nor race restrictions.

I DO see something about rebuilding from scratch:

"Leave a legacy for the next generation as you help to rebuild civilization from scratch. "

https://store.steampowered.com/app/5956 … _One_Life/

Additionally, and more importantly, a server filled with 90%+ new players like what happened during the sale is more likely to be able to handle a world without race restrictions than one with them.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-10-20 18:46:45)

Caprys · 2020-10-20 18:54:13

I don't want to constantly come back to the game already expecting that the fam and town will be dead. It keeps me from creating anything because it doesn't even last for a few hours. It makes me want to flee the towns every life to work on my own project, like the snow castle. But the towns die so fast and the new ones are to far away to be able to go back to a personal project.

StrongForce · 2020-10-20 22:19:46

Mabye a hightech landing pad that doesnt decay?

StrongForce · 2020-10-20 22:21:17

Try other servers than big2 there are communitys

NoTruePunk · 2020-10-20 23:26:31

Spoonwood wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:
Race restrictions should be removed.
Remove those and spreading out isn't an issue. Also, spreading out can resolve the longstanding lack of rebuilding from scratch issue.
I don't see anything about "trade" on Steam, nor race restrictions.
I DO see something about rebuilding from scratch:
"Leave a legacy for the next generation as you help to rebuild civilization from scratch. "
https://store.steampowered.com/app/5956 … _One_Life/
Additionally, and more importantly, a server filled with 90%+ new players like what happened during the sale is more likely to be able to handle a world without race restrictions than one with them.

Spoon, you keep saying it's an issue we're not rebuilding from scratch, but I really don't think that's a problem. Not every player is going to be the eve that spawns in right after a map wipe. Some of us are actually going to play in that society that she gives birth to. Currently the game has a whole lot more of the first thing happening and a whole lot less of the second.

Eve Troll · 2020-10-21 01:36:25

NoTruePunk wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
DestinyCall wrote:
Race restrictions should be removed.
Remove those and spreading out isn't an issue. Also, spreading out can resolve the longstanding lack of rebuilding from scratch issue.
I don't see anything about "trade" on Steam, nor race restrictions.
I DO see something about rebuilding from scratch:
"Leave a legacy for the next generation as you help to rebuild civilization from scratch. "
https://store.steampowered.com/app/5956 … _One_Life/
Additionally, and more importantly, a server filled with 90%+ new players like what happened during the sale is more likely to be able to handle a world without race restrictions than one with them.
Spoon, you keep saying it's an issue we're not rebuilding from scratch, but I really don't think that's a problem. Not every player is going to be the eve that spawns in right after a map wipe. Some of us are actually going to play in that society that she gives birth to. Currently the game has a whole lot more of the first thing happening and a whole lot less of the second.

Before race restrictions were introduced eves would spawn randomly all the time. There would be many families to spawn into at different stages of progression. Could even spawn as eve twins. A lot of people would /die so they could spawn as eve or so they could spawn into their old family so jason attached it to gene score.

Spoonwood · 2020-10-21 05:05:24

NoTruePunk wrote:

Spoon, you keep saying it's an issue we're not rebuilding from scratch, but I really don't think that's a problem. Not every player is going to be the eve that spawns in right after a map wipe. Some of us are actually going to play in that society that she gives birth to. Currently the game has a whole lot more of the first thing happening and a whole lot less of the second.

The game is a group game. It's rebuilding from scratch in a group context. So, for example if Eve makes a kiln and makes primary steel tools, and later on someone in the same family makes a kraut board, and someone else uses it, the kraut board *still* falls into rebuilding from scratch, even though it built on what the Eve and previous generations did. So, in other words playing in the society that the Eve gave birth too can still involve rebuilding from scratch, since *the group as a whole* still rebuilds from scratch.

But, families like the Black Tears resettled a dead town. Resettling dead towns, I note, leads to families getting more spread out, and since families resettle right, that leads to the "rat race" effect. I've observed Gingers delivering tanks of kerosene and engines to towns. I got born in Pickens family a few days ago with someone using a truck to haul materials around and he said that he keeps a truck around somewhere (he was also the leader). We didn't even have a smithing hammer or much of a farm! Engines get looted rather frequently from dead town locations, and that has been evident from forum reports for a while now. None of that involves a family, nor the server as a whole, rebuilding from scratch. And for those who want to rebuild from scratch in a group environment, they basically can't do so, since if someone else uses a looted engine for your family's pump, your family is no longer relying on resources that they earned from scratch.

Additionally, *if* servers 2-5, heck even server 1, got filled with players *they* would largely be rebuilding from scratch (though some looting of players who Eve chained would likely take place also). And during The September sale, server1 got filled with players, and server2 was somewhat decently populated on Sunday before things crash. Also, likely a wipe for bigserver2 will come with the upcoming biome change.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-10-21 05:06:56)

JonySky · 2020-10-21 08:44:23

NoTruePunk wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
DestinyCall wrote:
Race restrictions should be removed.
Remove those and spreading out isn't an issue. Also, spreading out can resolve the longstanding lack of rebuilding from scratch issue.
I don't see anything about "trade" on Steam, nor race restrictions.
I DO see something about rebuilding from scratch:
"Leave a legacy for the next generation as you help to rebuild civilization from scratch. "
https://store.steampowered.com/app/5956 … _One_Life/
Additionally, and more importantly, a server filled with 90%+ new players like what happened during the sale is more likely to be able to handle a world without race restrictions than one with them.
Spoon, you keep saying it's an issue we're not rebuilding from scratch, but I really don't think that's a problem. Not every player is going to be the eve that spawns in right after a map wipe. Some of us are actually going to play in that society that she gives birth to. Currently the game has a whole lot more of the first thing happening and a whole lot less of the second.

The game is 95% create a new city for our family
if the city is already created when we respawn as EVE ...
what do we do in the game?

Spoonwood · 2020-10-21 14:40:35

JonySky wrote:

NoTruePunk wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:
Remove those and spreading out isn't an issue. Also, spreading out can resolve the longstanding lack of rebuilding from scratch issue.
I don't see anything about "trade" on Steam, nor race restrictions.
I DO see something about rebuilding from scratch:
"Leave a legacy for the next generation as you help to rebuild civilization from scratch. "
https://store.steampowered.com/app/5956 … _One_Life/
Additionally, and more importantly, a server filled with 90%+ new players like what happened during the sale is more likely to be able to handle a world without race restrictions than one with them.
Spoon, you keep saying it's an issue we're not rebuilding from scratch, but I really don't think that's a problem. Not every player is going to be the eve that spawns in right after a map wipe. Some of us are actually going to play in that society that she gives birth to. Currently the game has a whole lot more of the first thing happening and a whole lot less of the second.
The game is 95% create a new city for our family
if the city is already created when we respawn as EVE ...
what do we do in the game?

Many Eves for a while now have looked for a city instead of building their own. I think Eve Tini, who has the longest line, is one example: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5919776 , or at least suggested as doing such from her final words "I made it to bell town". Tarr told me that he would do this, and I saw Telafiesta do such a few months ago. And from what I've heard on discord, not much has changed.

The problem is not that some players choose to do such. I mean, I think it sort of taking the easy way about doing things to build "on the backs" of others that way, but it can be more efficient. But still, people doing such is their choice.

The problems here lie in that, as you say, what do we do in game in such cities? Also, for those who want to rebuild from scratch, and leave a legacy, what should they do? Go to a low pop server? But that is different, since it is not much of a game with other people in comparison. And if you're Eve chaining, the craving system never gets to more complex crafted foods, and you don't have food generational decline. Also, new players don't end up playing low pop very often at all, so the challenges are different, and opportunities to teach are different. Another problem arises due to how the iron system works, some families are basically forced to relocate to old towns. They basically CANNOT do much rebuilding from scratch. Additionally, due to race restrictions, your family ends up somewhat dependent on other families, at least to advanced technologically and satisfy some cravings. So, even if your family (and welcome outsiders also trying to rebuild from scratch... or at least get close to such) rebuilds from scratch, are the other families rebuilding from scratch? Or are they using a truck generation 3 to gather materials? If they are brown, and supply your family with latex, did they make the latex from their own materials or get buckets from a *living* family that made those buckets? Or did they loot the buckets from some dead town?

And how does one go play only with other players who seek to rebuild from scratch and some new players also? By using /die? But such is rude, and is discouraged by the game designer. And it's not very likely to work, since with families close and findable, rebuilding from scratch likely gets corrupted rather frequently, as things like The Ginger Delivery suggest.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-10-21 15:02:31)

NoTruePunk · 2020-10-22 01:31:12

Spoonwood wrote:

NoTruePunk wrote:
Spoon, you keep saying it's an issue we're not rebuilding from scratch, but I really don't think that's a problem. Not every player is going to be the eve that spawns in right after a map wipe. Some of us are actually going to play in that society that she gives birth to. Currently the game has a whole lot more of the first thing happening and a whole lot less of the second.
The game is a group game. It's rebuilding from scratch in a group context. So, for example if Eve makes a kiln and makes primary steel tools, and later on someone in the same family makes a kraut board, and someone else uses it, the kraut board *still* falls into rebuilding from scratch, even though it built on what the Eve and previous generations did. So, in other words playing in the society that the Eve gave birth too can still involve rebuilding from scratch, since *the group as a whole* still rebuilds from scratch.
But, families like the Black Tears resettled a dead town. Resettling dead towns, I note, leads to families getting more spread out, and since families resettle right, that leads to the "rat race" effect. I've observed Gingers delivering tanks of kerosene and engines to towns. I got born in Pickens family a few days ago with someone using a truck to haul materials around and he said that he keeps a truck around somewhere (he was also the leader). We didn't even have a smithing hammer or much of a farm! Engines get looted rather frequently from dead town locations, and that has been evident from forum reports for a while now. None of that involves a family, nor the server as a whole, rebuilding from scratch. And for those who want to rebuild from scratch in a group environment, they basically can't do so, since if someone else uses a looted engine for your family's pump, your family is no longer relying on resources that they earned from scratch.

It's a group game, which means the path of the family isn't up to any one person to decide. And the problem isn't that dead towns are somehow more viable, it's that big cities and early game towns are equally likely to die for the same reason. It doesn't matter how good your yum chain is or how warm you stay when the server population drops you're screwed. Your babies will /die or get born as boys.

When an eve resettles an old city the problem isn't their stage of progression at that point, it's that they didn't build it. But the players themselves likely did, and I think denying them the chance to continue their progress due to server pop is kinda rude. Server pop is completely out of the control of players.

How would you even "fix" this? Keep wells and cisterns locked to a dead family? You'd just be further restricting players to fit your personal views on how the game should be played.

Last edited by NoTruePunk (2020-10-22 01:32:55)

NoTruePunk · 2020-10-22 15:26:19

Curious about the eve spawn snake I pulled data off the logs, filtered out the DT and tutorial eves and plotted them:

I guess the spawn snake is old news, which someone on the discord clarified for me. Thanks a bunch. Anyway, eves advanced 11.5km last week.

Does 1640 meters a day seem like too much? If I'm on horseback riding out to the new jungle fam to trade making the same trip I did a day before I now have to go another 1.6km on top of whatever distance I had traveled before. That seems like too much to me, considering how long trade goods last and the bootstrap time for a new family to generate a surplus. The new family likely won't have much of anything to offer even if I can make the trip. Punishing successful families for persevering through generations is pretty harsh, and cutting off needy new families from established ones is even harsher.

Spoonwood · 2020-10-22 18:44:39

NoTruePunk wrote:

It's a group game, which means the path of the family isn't up to any one person to decide

Sure it's a group game, but any decisions made by family members which take the family outside of the path of rebuilding from scratch implies that the family gets further away from rebuilding from scratch. The game also gets advertised that rebuilding from scratch is possible, at the very minimum.

NoTruePunk wrote:

When an eve resettles an old city the problem isn't their stage of progression at that point, it's that they didn't build it. But the players themselves likely did ...

I don't think that the same players likely did so. Or at least, there exists some question about how often it's the same players. I think they are often different players. Or different players get affected by such.

NoTruePunk wrote:

I think denying them the chance to continue their progress due to server pop is kinda rude.

They could, in principle, continue their progress without regard to server population if (some) members of the family could get reborn near to their previous death location, similar to how Eve-chaining works. There could exist a choice screen for players to activate such a possibility, or to get born into a random context, or Eve context, where they might rebuild from scratch with others.

Also, I don't see why it gets deemed rude that some players can't continue their progress. The game has the name One Hour One Life. There clearly exists a time limit. The death screen is very clear, in that you died. And death is inevitable. Why would you or anyone else expect that you could continue your progress or their progress after your death? How is it rude that you not be able to continue with such projects, if you got given a hint that you wouldn't be able to continue with such projects from the title of the game, and the always consistent part of the death screen which says 'YOU DIED'?

NoTruePunk wrote:

How would you even "fix" this? Keep wells and cisterns locked to a dead family? You'd just be further restricting players to fit your personal views on how the game should be played.

Fix the "problem" that players can't return to their old towns? I'd tell them to read the game's title, and the death screen, and keep those in mind. Maybe something like You Are Hope's screen where players can watch what happened with their town after their death, so that they can know/feel that they left a legacy. And see how things progress, and what could be possible in another life with respect to crafting/technology/personal interaction. But, *for the bs2 group game* some sort of method so that players would likely return to their previous town and continue on their previous project? But how is returning to one's town consistent with the One Hour One Life concept? And if such is inconsistent with the One Hour One Life concept, why would it be a problem?

Now, that concept isn't mine. I've argued in favor of One Hour One Life *just* meaning that the maximum amount of time for one life is one hour before.

Lastly, and most importantly, that players rebuild from scratch is not some personal view of mine only, like it seem to portray it. Again, the Steam page clearly talks about rebuilding from scratch. In full, it says:

"A multiplayer survival game of parenting and civilization building. Get born to another player as your mother. Live an entire life in one hour. Have babies of your own in the form of other players. Leave a legacy for the next generation as you help to rebuild civilization from scratch. Updated weekly. "

https://store.steampowered.com/app/5956 … _One_Life/

See how it says, "rebuild civilization from scratch"? I agree with those parts. Some other people around here, like Eve Troll, do also. And that's how the game has gotten advertised on Steam.

If the game's systems make it impossible for players to satisfy what is advertised there, it's simply not built right, and possibly it's falsely advertised. If players consistently make it impossible for others to play the game as advertised, well the players making it impossible for players to rebuild from scratch in a group context are in the wrong, not those trying to play the game as advertised.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-10-22 21:20:47)

Caprys · 2020-10-22 22:29:19

I don't think any of the towns is able to survive a reasonable amount of time without the looting of dead towns. I wouldn't want to see the towns die even faster. It makes every life feel pointless. It's easy to say that it's one hour one life, but that's not really how it is. You return to that world and if you bother to explore then you'll find dead city after dead city. Nothing should last forever, but it should last long enough to be worth it.

Spoonwood · 2020-10-22 22:50:12

Caprys wrote:

I don't think any of the towns is able to survive a reasonable amount of time without the looting of dead towns.

If so, then the game isn't built right.

Caprys wrote:

It makes every life feel pointless.

It's a game. I think meaning has to come from within, not from something external like a game. Maybe I don't quite understand you right though.

Grim_Arbiter · 2020-10-23 01:23:46

Rat race!
I'm singing that:
When the cat's away,
The mice will play.
Political violence fill ya city, ye-ah!
Don't involve Rasta in your say say.
Rasta don't work for no C.I.A.
Rat race, rat race, rat race! Rat race, I'm saying:
When you think is peace and safety.
A sudden destruction.
Collective security for surety, ye-ah!

Sorry, I love that song haha.

Spoonwood · 2020-10-23 01:42:39

Grim_Arbiter wrote:

Rat race!
I'm singing that:
When the cat's away,
The mice will play.
Political violence fill ya city, ye-ah!
Don't involve Rasta in your say say.
Rasta don't work for no C.I.A.
Rat race, rat race, rat race! Rat race, I'm saying:
When you think is peace and safety.
A sudden destruction.
Collective security for surety, ye-ah!

Sorry, I love that song haha.

I searched for 'Rat Race' and found another song. It might just fit better:

"Trapped in this town where the sun never shines
In a train underground we're lost in the tunnel of time
Day after day at the sound of the gun we fight for positions
Elbow to elbow we run

Our names and our numbers are scrolled in our backs
Don't ever look down man you'll fall through the cracks

Spinning our wheels in this rat race
Shifting gears they go round and round
You know how it feels at this fast pace
Run for your life you can never slow down

I'm down on my luck I'm falling behind
I was beating the clock but I've run out of, run out of time
I'm weak in the knees, my heart's gonna fail
First man to the future, or last man left dead on the trail

There's sweat in my eyes, and blood on my hands
It's run for your life man, as fast as you can

Spinning our wheels in this rat race
Shifting gears they go round and round
You know how it feels at this fast pace
Run for your life you can never slow down

The whole world is turning at break your neck speed
Can't get what you want man, you get get what you need

Run, rat run
Run, rat run (go)
Run, rat run

Spinning our wheels in this rat race
Shifting gears they go round and round
You know how it feels at this fast pace
Run for your life you can never slow down "

-Winger
https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/winger/ratrace.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSdIQkrAjtk

NoTruePunk · 2020-10-23 07:13:36

Spoonwood wrote:

NoTruePunk wrote:
It's a group game, which means the path of the family isn't up to any one person to decide
Sure it's a group game, but any decisions made by family members which take the family outside of the path of rebuilding from scratch implies that the family gets further away from rebuilding from scratch. The game also gets advertised that rebuilding from scratch is possible, at the very minimum.
NoTruePunk wrote:
When an eve resettles an old city the problem isn't their stage of progression at that point, it's that they didn't build it. But the players themselves likely did ...
I don't think that the same players likely did so. Or at least, there exists some question about how often it's the same players. I think they are often different players. Or different players get affected by such.
NoTruePunk wrote:
I think denying them the chance to continue their progress due to server pop is kinda rude.
They could, in principle, continue their progress without regard to server population if (some) members of the family could get reborn near to their previous death location, similar to how Eve-chaining works. There could exist a choice screen for players to activate such a possibility, or to get born into a random context, or Eve context, where they might rebuild from scratch with others.
Also, I don't see why it gets deemed rude that some players can't continue their progress. The game has the name One Hour One Life. There clearly exists a time limit. The death screen is very clear, in that you died. And death is inevitable. Why would you or anyone else expect that you could continue your progress or their progress after your death? How is it rude that you not be able to continue with such projects, if you got given a hint that you wouldn't be able to continue with such projects from the title of the game, and the always consistent part of the death screen which says 'YOU DIED'?
NoTruePunk wrote:
How would you even "fix" this? Keep wells and cisterns locked to a dead family? You'd just be further restricting players to fit your personal views on how the game should be played.
Fix the "problem" that players can't return to their old towns? I'd tell them to read the game's title, and the death screen, and keep those in mind. Maybe something like You Are Hope's screen where players can watch what happened with their town after their death, so that they can know/feel that they left a legacy. And see how things progress, and what could be possible in another life with respect to crafting/technology/personal interaction. But, *for the bs2 group game* some sort of method so that players would likely return to their previous town and continue on their previous project? But how is returning to one's town consistent with the One Hour One Life concept? And if such is inconsistent with the One Hour One Life concept, why would it be a problem?
Now, that concept isn't mine. I've argued in favor of One Hour One Life *just* meaning that the maximum amount of time for one life is one hour before.
Lastly, and most importantly, that players rebuild from scratch is not some personal view of mine only, like it seem to portray it. Again, the Steam page clearly talks about rebuilding from scratch. In full, it says:
"A multiplayer survival game of parenting and civilization building. Get born to another player as your mother. Live an entire life in one hour. Have babies of your own in the form of other players. Leave a legacy for the next generation as you help to rebuild civilization from scratch. Updated weekly. "
https://store.steampowered.com/app/5956 … _One_Life/
See how it says, "rebuild civilization from scratch"? I agree with those parts. Some other people around here, like Eve Troll, do also. And that's how the game has gotten advertised on Steam.
If the game's systems make it impossible for players to satisfy what is advertised there, it's simply not built right, and possibly it's falsely advertised. If players consistently make it impossible for others to play the game as advertised, well the players making it impossible for players to rebuild from scratch in a group context are in the wrong, not those trying to play the game as advertised.

That all would be fine if the thing that actually killed families was resource depletion or conflict or player mistakes. That's not the case though, most of the time a family dies just because of low population on the server, which puts a strain on all your other resources especially food as fertile women scramble to up their yum/temp and abandon food production. Then once that family dies any other families that depend on them die too, as trade becomes impossible. The eve spawn itself is killing families, which is just a fake made up game mechanic implemented to balance the game. It's completely arbitrary and players have no control over it which is why it's unfair.

Last edited by NoTruePunk (2020-10-23 07:14:34)

Caprys · 2020-10-23 14:46:41

Spoonwood wrote:

Caprys wrote:
It makes every life feel pointless.
It's a game. I think meaning has to come from within, not from something external like a game. Maybe I don't quite understand you right though.

I'm talking about game lifes, not real life. Almost every life feels the same. It repetitive and a lot of times really boring. If you're lucky a bear army comes by to give you some exitement, but that's it. Building up the family home from start isn't fun anymore when it's seem to be all that you are doing every life. The fams don't last long most of the time. I don't even bother to learn their family names anymore. You can't even make ingame friends. The only people you recognise are the grievers you cursed. The rest is just a bunch of strangers that you have to playpretend that they are your family. I doesn't feel like family. No wonder we hardly communicate in game. It's pointless. You die and you will never know who that person will be in a next life unless you curse them. If you had fun with someone, you can not create more fun with that person. How sad is that.

Spoonwood · 2020-10-23 16:04:35

Caprys wrote:

If you're lucky a bear army comes by to give you some exitement, but that's it.

I don't consider it lucky to have a bear army come to town. I also don't consider that exciting. I advise caution when talking about other people's emotions especially.

Caprys · 2020-10-23 18:34:18

Spoonwood wrote:

Caprys wrote:
If you're lucky a bear army comes by to give you some exitement, but that's it.
I don't consider it lucky to have a bear army come to town. I also don't consider that exciting. I advise caution when talking about other people's emotions especially.

Then what is exciting. Planting berrie bushes again. Getting a mouflon again. Picking carrots again. Watching the town die out again. I'll be lucky not to drop dead from boredom. I rather kill myself before that happens.

DestinyCall · 2020-10-23 18:42:01

If you are bored with playing OHOL, perhaps it is time to play something else for a while. It is okay to take a break when you get burnt out.

Come back when you have the urge to plant a really beautiful carrot patch or construct a diesel engine from scratch.

Caprys · 2020-10-23 18:51:51

DestinyCall wrote:

If you are bored with playing OHOL, perhaps it is time to play something else for a while. It is okay to take a break when you get burnt out.
Come back when you have the urge to plant a really beautiful carrot patch or construct a diesel engine from scratch.

Still looking for a replacement.

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