On "Nintendo Hard" Garbage

Spoonwood · 2020-11-03 06:37:19

jasonrohrer wrote:

Game should be Nintendo Hard for an Eve camp starting up a new town. Failure rate there should be way more than 50%. Wild food should run out just before the first farm produces crops. A few people should die of starvation along the way, even as expert players. This part of the game is close to the correct hardness... maybe slightly too easy, but close.
Of course, the fruits of civilization should make basic survival easier. Otherwise, it wouldn't make any logical sense. We have a farm and a well and clothes and buildings now, but food is still running out and half of us are starving?
Living to 60 as the daughter of an Eve should be pretty darn hard.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 296#p82296

Jason's comment there doesn't make any sense at all. It never did and never will.

The game is not ten minutes one life. The game is not twenty minutes one life. The game is not thirty minutes one life. It is not "Eat or Die!". The game is not forty minutes one life. The game is not fifty minutes one life. The game's name is One Hour One Life.

Saying that living to 60 as the daughter of Eve should be pretty darn hard is like saying that one hour one life isn't a reasonable goal for first time players beyond bigserver2. It's like saying that living to 60 isn't a reasonable goal for new players if all of the servers were ever to get filled. It's like saying that they deserve to get cheated out of experiencing one hour one life. And again, the game is not 20 minutes one life. It is not 30 minutes one life. It is not 50 minutes one life. It is not 55 minutes one life. One Hour One Life.

It's one thing that players can kill their own self via wild animals or others killing them for the sake of drama or immersion in some story by players own choice. Or that they can walk away from the game and not complete it that way. It's another to set up a system where new players can't have a one hour one life experience, because a game designer has or had NO VISION of his players satisfying such a fundamental concept, and a philosophy of "Evolve or Die" which contradicts one hour one life for new players, again showing that no one hour one life vision exists for new players.

And perhaps that's the biggest problem of them all. The lack of a comprehensive one hour one life vision. Instead the game has had a 20 minutes one life vision, or a 30 minutes one life vision, or a 5 minutes one life vision for players at early technological stages.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-11-03 06:51:27)

mrbah · 2020-11-03 10:29:29

An eve life is never one hour one life, as eves are born at age 14 or so.

JustMe · 2020-11-03 12:14:57

Are you aware that nobody likes you spoonwood?

And on topic - Nobody cares that a life can last less than one hour... Except you. It's just name of the game.

You are constantly sabotaging this game here. You are worse than griefers.

Get a fkin refund if you don't like what you get and piss off. Jason gives refunds to everyone who asks for it.

Cogito · 2020-11-03 12:26:36

Spoonwood wrote:

The game's name is One Hour One Life.

Spoon, you seem to be reading some sort of contract into the title of the game. I don't know why. As you say, it's the name of the game.

Jason has repeatedly stated that he doesn't expect people to always live to 60, or even that it should be easy to live to 60.

The game has death (from sources other than old age) in it.

This means that it is one hour, or one death, whichever comes first.

This is obvious to anyone who has any concept of one 'one life' means, and is reasonable to everyone, you included!

This weird, (incorrectly) legalistic interpretation of the title does nothing to advance the game (assuming that is your intent here).

Spoonwood wrote:

It's another to set up a system where new players can't have a one hour one life experience, because a game designer has or had NO VISION of his players satisfying such a fundamental concept, and a philosophy of "Evolve or Die" which contradicts one hour one life for new players, again showing that no one hour one life vision exists for new players.

New players can, and have, had a one hour one life experience, but even if they couldn't there is no reasonable expectation that they should!

Living to 60 is a massive milestone for new players. I remember the feeling extremely well, it was so satisfying. THIS is the vision for a one hour life - a player and a civilisation that are capable of dying from old age.

It would make the game worse if it was changed so that every life *has* to be capable of living to 60. A mother having to choose between babies to keep is a situation that is meaningful - it shouldn't happen, but it is good that it can.

There are bigger issues for new players than 'not living to 60', and indeed I think half the battle is getting new players to a point where they *want* to live to 60. I suspect many stop playing before that point, becuase of other reasons.

Spoonwood · 2020-11-03 12:29:15

mrbah wrote:

An eve life is never one hour one life, as eves are born at age 14 or so.

Yes. The game has that design flaw also.

Spoonwood · 2020-11-03 12:39:21

JustMe wrote:

Are you aware that nobody likes you spoonwood?

No, I'm not aware of that. I exist and I like me. On top of that, I had other people make a post celebrating how many posts I made in my honor apparently here: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … p?id=10138 So, no, I'm not aware of such, because it's simply not true.

JustMe wrote:

And on topic - Nobody cares that a life can last less than one hour... Except you. It's just name of the game.

So no one cares that the game design is something like 20 minutes one life, or 30 minutes one life, instead of one hour one life? If so, is there any wonder why Jason has often gotten poor advice from people?

JustMe wrote:

Get a fkin refund if you don't like what you get and piss off. Jason gives refunds to everyone who asks for it.

So instead of making the concept that the title promotes of one hour one life, Jason would rather players who didn't have a one hour one life experience not have the ability to talk on these forums, since they asked for a refund?

Spoonwood · 2020-11-03 12:58:06

Cogito wrote:

This is obvious to anyone who has any concept of one 'one life' means, and is reasonable to everyone, you included!
This weird, (incorrectly) legalistic interpretation of the title does nothing to advance the game (assuming that is your intent here).

The game is one hour one life. 20 minutes one life does not advance the game. As you suggest, such involves death. 30 minutes one life does not advance the game. Again, such involves death.

The concept is also not one life. It's one hour one life.

Cogito wrote:

This weird, (incorrectly) legalistic interpretation of the title does nothing to advance the game (assuming that is your intent here).

So how does 5 minutes one life advance the game? So how does 20 minutes one life advances the game? How does 40 minutes one life advance the game? Or to pick out a common feature, how does death instead of survival advance the game?

Cogito wrote:

New players can, and have, had a one hour one life experience, but even if they couldn't there is no reasonable expectation that they should!

The game is one hour one life. So, there is plenty of reasonable expectation that they should be able to have a one hour one life experience.

Cogito wrote:

Living to 60 is a massive milestone for new players. I remember the feeling extremely well, it was so satisfying. THIS is the vision for a one hour life - a player and a civilisation that are capable of dying from old age.

That isn't a one hour one life concept. That's a concept of death for many or most or almost all new players instead of them surviving to old age. Also, the feeling you talk about is not Jason's vision. Your feelings are your own Cogito. They don't exist in someone else's head.

Cogito wrote:

It would make the game worse if it was changed so that every life *has* to be capable of living to 60. A mother having to choose between babies to keep is a situation that is meaningful - it shouldn't happen, but it is good that it can.

The game lacks meaning in one sense for many players since they can't fulfill the one hour one life concept. Or they don't care to, like Dodge.

A mother choosing between babies implies that the game isn't capable of handling one hour one life for all players that seek it. Such only meant that the game wasn't designed to be consistent with one hour one life.

Spoonwood · 2020-11-03 13:09:48

Also, Cogito the Steam advertisement says:

"Get born to another player as your mother. Live an entire life in one hour. Have babies of your own in the form of other players. Leave a legacy for the next generation as you help to rebuild civilization from scratch. Updated weekly."

See that "live an entire life in one hour" part? It's not just the games title which lead to this post. It's also the game's advertisement.

Either players experience one hour one life, or they don't. If they don't experience one hour one life, why should they experience 50 minutes one life, 30 minutes one life, or something less than one hour one life? Why should they get an inferior experience the first time? Why should they die instead of surviving (to old age)?

QuirkySmirkyIan · 2020-11-03 13:26:33

JustMe wrote:

Are you aware that nobody likes you spoonwood?
And on topic - Nobody cares that a life can last less than one hour... Except you. It's just name of the game.
You are constantly sabotaging this game here. You are worse than griefers.
Get a fkin refund if you don't like what you get and piss off. Jason gives refunds to everyone who asks for it.

I like spoonwood he is cool.

HumanPerson · 2020-11-03 13:41:23

By your logic if you play a football simulator game with part of the description being 'win football matches', then losing a match is false advertising since you are meant to win matches, correct?

I understand 'Live an entire life in one hour.' as one of the goals of the game which you can achieve if your skill is high enough. And I can certainly vouch for this, I have had many, many lives that lasted exactly one hour, as advertised, so the statement is objectively not false.

gamatron332 · 2020-11-03 13:46:38

QuirkySmirkyIan wrote:

JustMe wrote:
Are you aware that nobody likes you spoonwood?
And on topic - Nobody cares that a life can last less than one hour... Except you. It's just name of the game.
You are constantly sabotaging this game here. You are worse than griefers.
Get a fkin refund if you don't like what you get and piss off. Jason gives refunds to everyone who asks for it.
I like spoonwood he is cool.

Me tooo! But I would describe my like similar to how one “likes” a fly. You may admire the fly for its prowess to evade the spider. Or wiz around your head in dizzying circles. But within 5 minutes of this you swat the fly because you have better things to do. Thank you sooo wood for being my fly

OneOfMany · 2020-11-03 13:49:50

Don't even get me started on "The Never Ending Story", that movie was a total rip off. False advertising.

Spoonwood wrote:

"Get born to another player as your mother. Live an entire life in one hour. Have babies of your own in the form of other players. Leave a legacy for the next generation as you help to rebuild civilization from scratch. Updated weekly."

I think you're picking at the wrong word. Let's examine "one". ONE Life ONE Hour. Never in the title or the description of the game does it imply you get to live a second life. One per customer. If you want a second life, buy another key. Otherwise it's not One Hour One Life.

Also, if it's the sixty minutes you're worried about. Simply lock the player in as a ghost for any remining time until their sixty minutes is up. After all they should get that full hour for the purchase of a key. No one said your sixty minutes would be a good sixty minutes.

Did you know that the original title for the game was One Hour One Life One Dollar? I'm glad it changed.

HumanPerson · 2020-11-03 13:50:21

gamatron332 wrote:

QuirkySmirkyIan wrote:
JustMe wrote:
Are you aware that nobody likes you spoonwood?
And on topic - Nobody cares that a life can last less than one hour... Except you. It's just name of the game.
You are constantly sabotaging this game here. You are worse than griefers.
Get a fkin refund if you don't like what you get and piss off. Jason gives refunds to everyone who asks for it.
I like spoonwood he is cool.
Me tooo! But I would describe my like similar to how one “likes” a fly. You may admire the fly for its prowess to evade the spider. Or wiz around your head in dizzying circles. But within 5 minutes of this you swat the fly because you have better things to do. Thank you sooo wood for being my fly

A fly that flies in front of your screen at night and cannot be stopped. It will come back for one more pass. Always.

Don't watch this movie:

?u=https%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-bSBdgKygv2k%2FVh4SK112LyI%2FAAAAAAAACcY%2FM2PJwcLoskc%2Fs1600%2F759_LifeIsBeautiful_Catalog_Poster_v2_Approved.png&f=1&nofb=1

Last edited by HumanPerson (2020-11-03 14:00:21)

Spoonwood · 2020-11-03 14:01:24

Thanks Quirky. I saw you playing on stream recently here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPpBp_LWEmc I'm guessing that was right after the arc reset, since the two families seen looked like young camps.

Spoonwood · 2020-11-03 14:08:52

HumanPerson wrote:

By your logic if you play a football simulator game with part of the description being 'win football matches', then losing a match is false advertising since you are meant to win matches, correct?

I'd have to see the advertisement, but likely no. Why? Because I suspect there's nothing about time in the game's advertisement. That football simulator isn't necessarily intended as a 10 minute, 5 minute, 30 minutes, or one hour game. In contrast, there is one hour in the title. The Steam advertisement also says: "Live an entire life in one hour."

Spoonwood · 2020-11-03 14:22:32

OneOfMany wrote:

I think you're picking at the wrong word. Let's examine "one". ONE Life ONE Hour. Never in the title or the description of the game does it imply you get to live a second life. One per customer. If you want a second life, buy another key. Otherwise it's not One Hour One Life.

It isn't one life one hour. It's one hour one life. I also wasn't assuming, nor implying, that the title or the description had anything about a second life in one hour.

A second life for buying a key? The game is not one hour two lives. It is not one hour three lives. Not in terms of it's title, nor how it gets advertised.

OneOfMany wrote:

Did you know that the original title for the game was One Hour One Life One Dollar?

I'm aware that it was something like that, I'm not sure it was exactly that, but I don't find that detail relevant here. But, I doubt that it's better that such got changed. And the game didn't have much content back then either. 20 dollars for a game that is a one hour game, with around one hour of content also, is not good value for the customer in my eyes. One dollar for a game that is a one hour game sounds like much better value for the customer to me. Seriously, consider a movie that either costs 15 dollars or 5 dollars which happens in the same venue and at the same time. Which has better value for you? The 15 dollar version of the movie, or the 5 dollar version of the movie?

The_Anabaptist · 2020-11-03 14:37:59

One Hour One Life

I've always interpreted it as One Hour (maximum) One Life. Unlike Spoonwood, I would love to see it interpreted as One Hour (maximum) One Life (maximum).

Don't like your birth mom, birth town, birth race, whatever and /die? Great. Log back in One Hour from now.
Die because the game was too hard, mother was incompetent, whatever? Great. Log back in at the end of One Hour.

I think the game would be savored by more players if the option to just start again right away was curtailed.
"Hunger gives flavor to the food" - Amit Kalantri

The_Anabaptist

HumanPerson · 2020-11-03 15:01:16

Spoonwood wrote:

HumanPerson wrote:
By your logic if you play a football simulator game with part of the description being 'win football matches', then losing a match is false advertising since you are meant to win matches, correct?
I'd have to see the advertisement, but likely no. Why? Because I suspect there's nothing about time in the game's advertisement. That football simulator isn't necessarily intended as a 10 minute, 5 minute, 30 minutes, or one hour game. In contrast, there is one hour in the title. The Steam advertisement also says: "Live an entire life in one hour."

Nowhere does it say you are guaranteed 60 minutes of life every life you play, the game simply provides you with the challenge to live one hour and the tools to achieve it.

If you cannot achieve in game what others can, it is not the games fault.

If I say 'I will teach you something', it is not guaranteed you will 'learn it', but that does not make me a liar.

Last edited by HumanPerson (2020-11-03 15:02:36)

Dodge · 2020-11-03 16:18:46

Another dense post by Spoonwood who doesn't understand the basic things in life, a complete lack of common sense who takes everything literally and has absolutly no self awareness.

Oh Spoonwood you're like a small child that has to be explained everything, like a helpless baby continuously crying.

No the game Rust doesn't revolve around watching iron turning into a different element in the contact of moisture.

Spoonwood wrote:

Dodge wrote:
"because it's like saying that whites belong or can master being at the center of the world, while others can't."
I truly pity people that see racism everywhere, a very sad way to live.
I'm very sure that the scope of this game is extremely far from "everywhere". If you thought you were pitying me Dodge, you are simply wrong in thinking that you were pitying me Dodge. And I don't think pity was the emotion that you felt when writing the above also.

It most certainly is, albeit not the only one.

Spoonwood · 2020-11-03 16:26:26

HumanPerson wrote:

Nowhere does it say you are guaranteed 60 minutes of life every life you play, the game simply provides you with the challenge to live one hour and the tools to achieve it.

I think I had watched the game on Twitch for a few weeks before the first time I played it. I think I didn't live to 60 my first life. Most players do NOT live to 60 on their first life. *In an Eve camp* they come as even less likely to live to 60 in their first life. If there's a sale, or some other cause, moving most players beyond bigserver2, many new players will end up in Eve camps.

The whole idea of "Ninntendo Hard" means that you won't live for very long the first time, unless you were using something from one of the game's strategy guides, which weren't there when they got released. If you haven't played them, go play Battletoads and see how far you get. Go play the original Mega Man and see how far you get without using the pause via the select button tactic (alright, I guess first time players wouldn't even get far enough for that to be useful) or watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njzAyjAFCMI. Go play Ninja Gaiden and see how far you get. Go play Contra and don't use the 30 life code (up up down down left right left right select start, if I recall correctly... don't use that).

I simply don't see why it makes any sense at all to believe that for an average new player in an that they will likely have the tools to live to 60 the first time. I've seen some new streamers recently who starve before 60. Unfortunately I have none to show you, since those videos often don't even get taped on Twitch and can only get seen when the player is streaming.

HumanPerson wrote:

If you cannot achieve in game what others can, it is not the games fault.

If the average player cannot have a one hour one life experience the first time that they play when trying and able to play for a one hour experience, then the game is not designed correctly.

If a designer seeks to design a "Nintendo Hard" game, but leads people into believing that a one hour experience is possible in one life, and the average player simply can't do that, then that is the designer's fault. Again, the Steam advertisement says:

"A multiplayer survival game of parenting and civilization building. Get born to another player as your mother. *Live an entire life in one hour* [emphasis added]. Have babies of your own in the form of other players. Leave a legacy for the next generation as you help to rebuild civilization from scratch."

That advertisement isn't for you or me. That's for people who haven't played the game.

Not 5 minutes one life. Not 20 minutes one life. Not 40 minutes one life. Not 55 minutes one life. Not 57 minutes one life.

One hour one life.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-11-03 20:36:27)

Spoonwood · 2020-11-03 16:37:03

Dodge wrote:

Another dense post by Spoonwood who doesn't understand the basic things in life, a complete lack of common sense who takes everything literally and has absolutly no self awareness.

Dodge, unsurprising to me, turns to insult instead of addressing the issue. Likely, because he has no sort of reasoning to back up his position.

Dodge wrote:

Oh Spoonwood you're like a small child that has to be explained everything, like a helpless baby continuously crying.

No Dodge, there is no rational counter explanation that exists. You can't explain anything here, nor can anyone else.

Dodge wrote:

No the game Rust doesn't revolve around watching iron turning into a different element in the contact of moisture.

Real world rust is not how rust gets produced Dodge. Also, the Rust advertisement on Steam doesn't mention anything about real-world rust:

"The only aim in Rust is to survive - Overcome struggles such as hunger, thirst and cold. Build a fire. Build a shelter. Kill animals. Protect yourself from other players. "

https://store.steampowered.com/app/252490/Rust/

I guess it's not surprising that Dodge would fail at trying to take things literally.

Dodge wrote:

It most certainly is, albeit not the only one.

That doesn't address what your emotion *was*.

HumanPerson · 2020-11-03 17:29:46

Spoonwood wrote:

I think I didn't live to 60 my first life. Most players do NOT live to 60 on their first life.

I did, I had a mom who took care of me, tho it took me a while to learn to not starve all the time. This was caused by lack of experience on my part and kept me coming back to learn.

Spoonwood wrote:

*In an Eve camp* ... many new players will end up in Eve camps.

Does this refer to nazies? I might be reading into it too much.

Spoonwood wrote:

I simply don't see why it makes any sense at all to believe that for an average new player in an that they will likely have the tools to live to 60 the first time. I've seen some new streamers recently who starve before 60.

Why are you so obsessed with the idea that a player absolutely must live the entire hour every time. In all games I have played you have the option to fail, that's what makes it interesting. Games are meant to be somewhat of a challenge else what's the point.

Spoonwood wrote:

HumanPerson wrote:
If you cannot achieve in game what others can, it is not the games fault.
If the average player cannot have a one hour one life experience the first time that they play when trying and able to play for a one hour experience, then that is the game's fault.

Wrong. Is it a cars fault for crashing because it is driven by a first time driver? Should we do something about how poorly cars are designed to require a certain level of skill to operate? Or do we understand that the first time you do something, you will most likely not perform at top potential and accept the fact that a certain amount of training is needed to achieve it.

Spoonwood wrote:

"A multiplayer survival game of parenting and civilization building. Get born to another player as your mother. *Live an entire life in one hour* [emphasis added]. Have babies of your own in the form of other players. Leave a legacy for the next generation as you help to rebuild civilization from scratch."

I have done every sentence in the description, it is all objectively factually correct. I lived my first life till dying of old age too, as irrelevant as it is in a game about living a life over and over and bettering yourself.

Spoonwood wrote:

Not 5 minutes one life. Not 20 minutes one life. Not 40 minutes one life. Not 55 minutes one life. Not 57 minutes one life.
One hour one life.

Thank you for not including every single second of an hour, we get the point from jut two or three points of data.

Spoonwood · 2020-11-03 20:34:23

HumanPerson wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
*In an Eve camp* ... many new players will end up in Eve camps.
Does this refer to nazies? I might be reading into it too much.

No it does not. Why did you bring up nazis?

HumanPerson wrote:

Why are you so obsessed with the idea that a player absolutely must live the entire hour every time. In all games I have played you have the option to fail, that's what makes it interesting. Games are meant to be somewhat of a challenge else what's the point.

Why does it appear that you haven't considered the idea of "Nintendo Hard"? For "Nintendo Hard" games you aren't just given the option to fail. *Just* being able to fail is not their primary emphasis. The primary emphasis of "Nintendo Hard" games is that they have gotten designed such that the player is extremely likely to fail many, many times.

HumanPerson wrote:

Games are meant to be somewhat of a challenge else what's the point.

This post wasn't talking about a game as if it were somewhat of a challenge. And "Nintendo Hard" isn't at "somewhat of a challenge" of a challenge level. A "Nintendo Hard" game is much harder than that. A "Nintendo Hard" game is difficult, if not very difficult. For a new player, on a difficulty scale from 0 to 100, a "Nintendo Hard" game is at difficulty level 95, 96, 97, 98, or 99. One could probably say that a "Nintendo Hard" game is f---ing hard as hell, and one probably needs swear words to get their difficulty level right especially if they were intended to get completed in one life or one hour (they weren't intended to get completed in one life... they most definitively were not one hour games).

HumanPerson wrote:

Wrong. Is it a cars fault for crashing because it is driven by a first time driver?

Fine, I'll restate that:

If the average player cannot have a one hour one life experience the first time that they play when trying and able to play for a one hour experience, then that is the designer of the game's fault.

HumanPerson wrote:

Or do we understand that the first time you do something, you will most likely not perform at top potential and accept the fact that a certain amount of training is needed to achieve it.

Performing or not performing at top potential is irrelevant, because we're talking about an average first-time player here, not a top-performer.

HumanPerson wrote:

I lived my first life till dying of old age too, as irrelevant as it is in a game about living a life over and over and bettering yourself.

No, you don't live a life over and over. You don't have the same in game character with the same exact conditions as other characters did.

HumanPerson wrote:

Thank you for not including every single second of an hour, we get the point from jut two or three points of data.

You're welcome.

Spoonwood · 2020-11-03 20:44:36

The_Anabaptist wrote:

One Hour One Life
I've always interpreted it as One Hour (maximum) One Life. Unlike Spoonwood, I would love to see it interpreted as One Hour (maximum) One Life (maximum).
Don't like your birth mom, birth town, birth race, whatever and /die? Great. Log back in One Hour from now.
Die because the game was too hard, mother was incompetent, whatever? Great. Log back in at the end of One Hour.
I think the game would be savored by more players if the option to just start again right away was curtailed.
"Hunger gives flavor to the food" - Amit Kalantri
The_Anabaptist

It sounds to me like you want 'one hour one life, or one hour one life and one death' or perhaps for short 'one hour, one life or one death' or maybe even 'one hour, one life one death'. But, for people who didn't live 30 minutes for one reason or another, that wouldn't be for most of the time a one hour game. It would be, most of the time, lack of a one hour game. And to some extent it would be the lack of a one hour game for anyone who died before 60.

Dodge · 2020-11-03 21:14:30

I have an iron pan so i'm very familiar to how rust is made, are you mentally challenged in some way?

It's actually physically painful to see you try so hard to find a way to always be right even though you're most of the time completely missing the point and absolutly out of touch, only managing to make a fool of yourself in the process.

If Jason is a clown you're the whole circus.

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