DestinyCall, on Geographic Barriers

Morti · 2020-11-29 05:01:08

DestinyCall wrote:

That being said, there were some good things about the rift that could have been leveraged into interesting new game mechanics - like the idea of using geographic barriers (oceans/mountains) as a way of restricting or defining different regions to allow for easier long-distance navigation and to make the open map feel less repetitive and endless.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 67#p103667

Remember the walls I made, in the Arc?
More importantly, do you remember what purpose I wanted the final iteration of the walls to become?

It was not about walling in towns, it was about creating bottlenecks, choke points and forcing traffic to locations.

Holes should be fillable, obstructions should be destroyable.

Mountains and water should be the third dimension of this game, in much the same way ponds and walls are.
(I know it's called 2.5D in game design.)

That *is* the thought that tickled me every life, in my most ambitious project, the wall to divide the map in half.

I expanded more on that thought here: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 216#p73216
and there is a little about the idea of walls being used as mountains, here: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 118#p92118

Now I also realize that ponds are impassible, and in their way, they too can function as 2.5D objects. An object, like a pond, but that is nearly a full square of water, could be filled with baskets of soil (or something similar, like sand or rubble) that after awhile it'd be flat ground.

Nothing has to change with the engine itself, except, that they'd have to be added to the code for the generation of the world, so that they are either on top of existing biomes, covering them up, or, are themselves, two new biomes, that one flattened or filled, become like badland (dark grey) tiles.

--

I won't type too much in this first post, I just want to get the idea out and let people consider it.

Thanks for reminding me, Destiny.

I loved putting up those walls, now how about we have even more fun, tearing our way through mountains to reach each other?

Morti · 2020-11-29 06:07:34

Will this link work?
https://onemap.wondible.com/#x=10&y=-90 … 1568062892
If so, follow the wall at x=0, south, to see it on wondible's map.

In the top right corner is an icon with layers, click on that, and put a check mark for "graticule"

The point of that wall, was to create a barrier people on the East, and West side would have to deal with.
I'm not saying I wanted to divide people, I wanted to give them security from each other, on either side, while imagining myself settling with a hole in the middle, between the east and west side, where the two families on either side would have enough defense to keep the other from breaking through, if it came to that.

I looked at what I was doing, in a lot of ways, during and after, having done it.

You can use wondible's map to see the progress I made on the wall, with each life.

In the URL, https://onemap.wondible.com/#x=10&y=-90 … 1568062894 there is this part, t=1568062894, that is the UNIX time for the data stored. If you change the 4 at the end to a 5, one second later, you will see that is when the new rift was created.

A character's life is 60 years max, 60 minutes, 3600 seconds.

If you want to jump 60 years of game time, you'd subtract 3600 from 1568062894, but that's Math. That's dumb, and so am I, so I just like to round numbers.
Round 2894, the last 4 digits, down to 0000 and you have this https://onemap.wondible.com/#x=10&y=-90 … 1568060000
1200 seconds is 20 years of game time, close enough to 1000. 10000 seconds is about three full lives.
You want to progress forward and backward by fractions of a life, adjust the 4th digit from the end.
You want to go forward or backwards by a couple hours of played time, adjust the 5th digit.
You want to know exactly how much each digit equates to, well, you're in luck, I haven't done the math yet, so you can tell me after you've done it.

...

No. No wait!

It's not that cool...

The map starts at https://onemap.wondible.com/#x=10&y=-90 … 1567997133, and it's the same map.

I thought wondible's map had a timelapse feature, and it would have showed things that way but, I was wrong apparently.

Never mind.

Just keep in mind, if you zoom out, I did the X of white road tiles as well as the wall going up the middle...

All between 1567997133 and 1568062894... (without being more familiar with UNIX time, that just looks so meaningless.)

This v 7!
1567997133
Changed to an 8!
.....v
1568062894

Mind = Blown

But it was 7.99, and it only changed to 8.06...
... still, that's 0.07... of the 7th digit... pretty amazing... when you think of it that way...

I'm going to go do something else, cya.

Morti · 2020-11-29 06:28:45

A good person, punched that hole in the wall.
I wish I could make games people that good, could enjoy.

That's what I did.
I made the game something new.

Also, not even sure the true length of time that arc was going was ...65761 seconds.
It probably wasn't. That's probably just the time between two snapshots, of the previous and following arcs.
24 real hours is 86,400 seconds.

I don't know what that time represents, but it meant a lot to me, that day.

Morti · 2020-11-29 06:46:05

See those dirt piles along the wall?
I wanted to plant food along the whole wall, from both sides, but I figured I'd start at the bottom and work my way up.

I never got around to doing that, as my focus became on the wall itself and getting it up as quickly as possible so it could stand the 10 hours needed for it to become permanent. I figured I'd get back to those piles after I was satisfied with my progress. But, that I would start at the bottom, also, because people following the wall would be flabergasted at the site of it, and after having run the length to the bottom, might be low on food, so they would need a snack to recharge for the trip, either, back up the wall, or where ever else they planned to go.

Those were going to become remote corners, where people on either side could observe each other, but not kill each other... nor help one another.
But having something similar on both sides, may have made a person on either side, consider just what the game had become about. And whether or not they wanted to continue down that path, or turn back.

Morti · 2020-11-29 07:11:28

I started this town as a place to go when I was male, to make tools for the road that would lead tot he center.
I went there as a woman and had kids.
It became the second to last family that arc, the one that remained there. Not sure if those last people were all my descendants or not, but all the fences people put around it made it a shitty experience just being there. I couldn't decide how much I wanted to wall in. My walled towns had multiple wells.

This was the 2x3 NE Town one arc.

This was the 4x4 NW Town the next arc.

I couldn't decide how big I wanted that southeast town to be, and by the time I did, people had fenced it in and were giving me a hard time when I wanted out the fence gates with tools. Those fences turned, and the gates especially, were just a pain in the ass, to the way I wanted to play the game.

So, I turned this abandoned camp,

into my new tool town, and just planned to give that town in the southeast corner, a lot of the map...

How much?

As much as I could.
1/6? 1/4? 1/2???

Half the map would be funny...

It was funny.

Funny enough an idea, that I'd have a go at it.

Eve Troll · 2020-11-29 07:33:20

I miss this.

Morti · 2020-11-29 07:47:36

My little milkweed outpost.

Here I grew milkweed for lassos and carts, and here the sheep lived without fences, so that I could slaughter them for saddles as needed.
I had to have a horse cart to make those walls as fast as I could, and I couldn't count on the other towns having horses all the time, or, finding my last horse in the place where I left it from one life to the next, so, I farmed my own horse carts.

Why am I telling you all of this when this thread was supposed to be about mountains and oceans?

Well, it was a really good time.
A good time I had, with many of you, even though you were off screen.
I knew you were out there and that this would have an impact on you,
so I kept at it.
Life after life.

I wanted to give you something new.
A new problem to deal with.
A new idea, for keeping the arc alive, by separating people from each other, that wanted our families to end.

Could you imagine if I had pulled off completely dividing the arc in half?
If only that town in the southeast hadn't succumbed to it's own confines - those property fence making fools...

Those property fence making fools, are still around to this day.

Give us natural barriers to overcome, Jason.
Don't insist we become our own barriers, to make some dumb point.
Make a good game.
Stop making art.
Maybe your good game will become, more art, than the bad version.

It's your game. Your art to make.
Or is it up to the players, whether it's art or not?

Which do you value more? Yourself, or everyone else?
This isn't a lesson for us, it's a lesson for you.

Make a great game.

Obviously we like this one, we're here.
This was a good idea.
But is this the most you want to give to this project?
Is this THE project? Is this the genre, the engine, is this, the game, you want to be responsible for the most of you?
You want people to find you in this, above everything else you've done?

I have a lot of questions for you, Jason, questions that will probably never be asked, let alone answered.
There's just not enough time in our busy schedules for one another.

Maybe some day.

As you like.

Morti · 2020-11-29 08:37:41

I think Google/Youtube recommended this video because I was talking about mountains.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymPFptR3qxs

I wouldn't go that far.

We're not trying to recreate top down Minecraft here.

But damn, would that be fun...

Reminds me of Otzi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL4I4q4d-hA

That was a really good movie, but what's even cooler (is NOT the temperature in the Alps, that's a dumb joke and I should be ashamed of myself for having thought of it) what's even cooler, is that Otzi was REAL.

Morti · 2020-11-29 09:06:12

https://onemap.wondible.com/#x=0&y=0&z= … 1568062892

monument 19.09.09.05.41

Nostalgia SUCKS.
The life out of you.
Not even once!

Don't do it, kids!

Dodge · 2020-11-29 09:27:29

Natural barriers like oceans, mountains etc are technically possible to be added to the game but it has to come from a hand drawn image, like a paint file where you would draw the oceans, the mountains and make them into a specific shape/disposition.

If you only add them as biomes in the current map generation system it would either be some round biome with a limited size that you could just skip by going around it so completely useless or be a band of ocean like in the current map which would both look and be uninteresting and players would eventually hate it.

If it's made with a hand drawn image then these barriers could have any form imaginable and you can choose which biomes are separated like for example the jungle, desert and thundra separated from each other and in order to get the ressources you have to overcome these barriers.

Speaking of barriers i think they are the key to remplace the current forced biome restriction mechanic and make it into something much more organic and interesting.

Every special biome has an outer layer, so the tundra for example is surrounded by arctic ice, only the tundra has oil, the arctic ice that surrounds it has a lot of blizzards and is extremly cold so it acts as a natural barrier to access the oil in the tundra.

Everyone has access to every biome and can freely, pick up, drop or craft any object in them BUT only the gingers are immune to the blizzards and freezing effect of the arctic ice and tundra, so they only are regular cold and not freezing plus resistant to blizzards in case they encounter them.

This way the player has a choice, i can either risk it and go in the unfamiliar biome to get ressources keeping in mind that it's extremly dangerous and that i might not come back, or trade with the native people of that biome who can easily get these ressources.

This can be applied to other special biomes.

Browns immune to yellow fever from mosquitoes and comfortable in the jungle and deep jungle climate.

Blacks immune to desert storms and resistant to the scorching sun from the desert and sand desert.

Morti · 2020-11-29 10:42:38

Dodge wrote:

Natural barriers like oceans, mountains etc are technically possible to be added to the game but it has to come from a hand drawn image, like a paint file where you would draw the oceans, the mountains and make them into a specific shape/disposition.
If you only add them as biomes in the current map generation system it would either be some round biome with a limited size that you could just skip by going around it so completely useless or be a band of ocean like in the current map which would both look and be uninteresting and players would eventually hate it.
If it's made with a hand drawn image then these barriers could have any form imaginable and you can choose which biomes are separated like for example the jungle, desert and thundra separated from each other and in order to get the ressources you have to overcome these barriers.
Speaking of barriers i think they are the key to remplace the current forced biome restriction mechanic and make it into something much more organic and interesting.
https://i.ibb.co/kSgBTmr/map-with-description.png
Every special biome has an outer layer, so the tundra for example is surrounded by arctic ice, only the tundra has oil, the arctic ice that surrounds it has a lot of blizzards and is extremly cold so it acts as a natural barrier to access the oil in the tundra.
Everyone has access to every biome and can freely, pick up, drop or craft any object in them BUT only the gingers are immune to the blizzards and freezing effect of the arctic ice and tundra, so they only are regular cold and not freezing plus resistant to blizzards in case they encounter them.
This way the player has a choice, i can either risk it and go in the unfamiliar biome to get ressources keeping in mind that it's extremly dangerous and that i might not come back, or trade with the native people of that biome who can easily get these ressources.
This can be applied to other special biomes.
Browns immune to yellow fever from mosquitoes and comfortable in the jungle and deep jungle climate.
Blacks immune to desert storms and resistant to the scorching sun from the desert and sand desert.

Interesting post... has Jason stated what you said in those first three paragraphs, anywhere online?
Or, did you get that from someone else familiar with the engine, or do you know it from experience working with the code yourself?

Seems a little sketchy to say it "it has to come from a hand drawn image" when I imagine someone that has worked with games that generate maps and biomes and terrain details, should be capable of putting to code, the rules, to generate such a map; either a small one, say, 1024x1024 meters wide, or one that would alternate for as long as some set limit, like a memory size for C++, dictates.

I don't know shit about computers, but I've played enough games with generated worlds to imagine what it takes to write rules.
A lot of games are tile based, and even the ones I don't think are, probably are, and somehow lines are drawn in the tiles that make me forget the tiles, looking at the landscapes, but then look at the objects, and how they are placed in worlds, like The Forest, and I imagine there is some kind of tile-like system at work there... but that's never random is it? Hmm, maybe not the best example, how about, something like Life is Feudal - Forest Village, the 3D Banished game? It doesn't look like tiles, till you try to manipulate the world. Come to think of it, you see similar limitations in The Forest, but not until you begin constructing, and then they appear in that exchange with the game; the rules, show up.

Regardless, thank you for making this post Dodge. Just the act of posting in this thread, thank you.

Got me thinking about a One Hour One Life version of Risk, but that's probably because I was making a Risk board from a Checkboard while I was in Jail, and, improvising games from limited material, has been on my mind a lot over the course of my life. Having a younger brother to grow up with, it was part of my job as a human being; keeping us both entertained, while we were 'growing up'.

No one ever says Grow Down.
But trees have to, to get strong roots to stand. Nearly half the tree is the root system. Sometimes more than half.
Not to say anything of the mycelia...

So, yeah. Interesting post, I'll just say that.

Maybe I'll write my own code for painting islands with MS Paint. XD
Fat chance, I'm lazy af.

But, which games have map generators where I could swap out the names for biomes with OHOL names and make it work?

I'd have to think of all the games I've played with map generators; which would be the best.

--

Another idea came to me, if there were premade maps, maybe after a run ended, anyone playing could vote on the next map, from a short selection of images picked from a larger pool? Using that questionnaire feature Jason added to the game long ago, but I haven't seen used in, just as long.
Everyone dies at the same time, screen goes black, options present themselves for the next map, everyone logged in gets to choose, after x amount of time, if everyone hasn't chosen, the new map is selected based on the most votes, with a tie going to one at random (as best a computer can be random) and life begins anew from there?

--

I was just looking at some pictures in my OHOL folder...

Fucking nightmare fuel.

wondible · 2020-11-29 17:06:21

Morti wrote:

I thought wondible's map had a timelapse feature, and it would have showed things that way but, I was wrong apparently.

Clock button in lower left. By default the map shows static snapshots, which are much smaller files to download, and only loads the play-by-play if you actually want it. Snapshots are usually once a day.

SirCaio · 2020-11-29 21:35:30

If we are talking geographical barriers for pseudo-3D perspective, I belive the best fit for OHOL would be something similar to factorio's cliffs:

These can be stacked infinitely on top of one another to create the idea of mountains, plateaus, plains and depressions. They can become annoying when overused and should, of course, be destructible. Some biomes could be flatter than others and mountain ranges could generate restricting access to some areas of the map.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2020-11-29 05:01:08

DestinyCall, on Geographic Barriers

#2 2020-11-29 06:07:34

Re: DestinyCall, on Geographic Barriers

#3 2020-11-29 06:28:45

Re: DestinyCall, on Geographic Barriers

#4 2020-11-29 06:46:05

Re: DestinyCall, on Geographic Barriers

#5 2020-11-29 07:11:28

Re: DestinyCall, on Geographic Barriers

#6 2020-11-29 07:33:20

Re: DestinyCall, on Geographic Barriers

#7 2020-11-29 07:47:36

Re: DestinyCall, on Geographic Barriers

#8 2020-11-29 08:37:41

Re: DestinyCall, on Geographic Barriers

#9 2020-11-29 09:06:12

Re: DestinyCall, on Geographic Barriers

#10 2020-11-29 09:27:29

Re: DestinyCall, on Geographic Barriers

#11 2020-11-29 10:42:38

Re: DestinyCall, on Geographic Barriers

#12 2020-11-29 17:06:21

Re: DestinyCall, on Geographic Barriers

#13 2020-11-29 21:35:30

Re: DestinyCall, on Geographic Barriers

Board footer