Investing so much time and effort in something that everybody hates.

Dodge · 2020-12-17 22:39:26

Aka biome restriction, do you think it will stay forever like this?

Or if something better comes along he would scrap these changes even though he invested much time into it?

Spoonwood · 2020-12-17 23:02:00

Biomes have gotten restricted on how they spawn since the topographcial ring system.

Race restrictions on the other hand don't exist on servers with less than 15 players on them.

Race restrictions are likely not sustainable for a server with maximum player population. Lineages die out, and then certain resources become unobtainable. I note that during the last sale period, it was only during low pop hours that towns past a deep well got *built* up.

They also don't fit with a family rebuilding from scratch, nor with with fences off or towns with city walls.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-12-17 23:03:20)

DestinyCall · 2020-12-17 23:29:52

I don't hold out much hope at this point. It has been about a year since biome restrictions were added to the game. I get the impression that Jason still thinks they are doing something useful for the game or maybe that they will be useful eventually, like property fences.

I think OHOL would be better off without this mechanic. It doesn't work right and probably never will.

Plus, I am not a fan of systemic racism and magical bullshit.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2020-12-17 23:33:27)

StrongForce · 2020-12-18 00:04:15

I dont mind property fences or biom restrictions.
In the beginning they were rather annoying but both have good uses.

Griefer protecting engines and other valuables.

Locking horses in your biom so they dont get looted when the town dies out.

had lots of interesting lifes getting exotic foods from other towns

The rubber is a bit too essential for it to be restricted but a town outgrows rubber as they advance to engine tech.

Last edited by StrongForce (2020-12-18 00:09:43)

Spoonwood · 2020-12-18 00:08:24

StrongForce wrote:

Locking horses in your biom so they dont get looted when the town dies out

I don't see how that's useful.

StrongForce · 2020-12-18 00:12:11

If the town you have built dies out over night.
Its way easyer to get other players to help you repopulate it if the horses and the engine is still in town.

pein · 2020-12-18 00:46:51

i still think predefined teams would work better than this race stuff, even a goal that makes you a bit more likely to be selfish toward your family
if the trade is the goal it failed hard. mainly because there is no defence to theft.

I don't like the map either, it's nice that is procedurally generated but nothing has a value then there is no gameplay reason to stick with a town. imagine zones with a central mine, could be iron, water, even clay. A town with infinite clay would do a different playstyle than a town with infinite water. Not infinite but a possibility to be way higher than others. OFC it would need item values and such, and semi-automated markets.
Maybe a way to do the same result with different paths. As for limiting tech, could be linked to the family tech tree and not skin colour. You would have 3 high tech options to choose from and it will always be that for your family. That would more likely make your town valuable and your choice more adaptive.

JonySky · 2020-12-18 07:54:40

The game has taken the path of "easy development" or "minimal effort" with pointless magic solutions.

The constraints of the biome is an example of this

It does not matter if the restrictions of the biome are removed ... because we also have the magic mechanics of the homeland (which is also based on blocking the players to be able to play freely) or the biome bands that eliminate the randomness of the map and the exploration

New mechanics are not being built to enrich the game, only mechanics and player movements are being blocked to force play in a certain way

New mechanics are not even being generated to enrich the current playstyle!

Agree! I will play my lives blocked in my city and in my family .... but give me new challenges Jason !!
Stops forcing me to play a game where the only challenge is not to run out of water on an infinite map so as not to starve!

honestly I feel a bit cheated because this is not the game shown in the trailer, I thought that OHOL would be something else (I was wrong)

I understand that the game engine cannot do much more, and a good change requires a complete overhaul of the game engine (improbable) ... but I am saddened that this potential of the game is lost

I am also saddened by the good ideas that are generated in this forum and that end up in oblivion (good ideas thrown away) ... I think these ideas can change the game and generate new challenges ... just what the game needs !

In summary: Even if the restrictions of the biome are removed right now ... everything will remain the same ... magic solutions, absurd nonsense objects, development without objectives ...

That is why I have been saying for some time that we need a future development plan ... to know where OHOL is going
Only by knowing where OHOL is heading can we give new successful ideas or we can even decide if we should definitely get off this train

Last edited by JonySky (2020-12-18 10:22:50)

Dodge · 2020-12-18 08:00:03

We already have zones they are called biomes, you cant grow bananas in europe for example so you have to import them from another country that has a suitable climate and since it's far enough and has enough natural barriers you cant just walk there easily so people live there and cultivate bananas instead of cabbages like in europe, it's a natural form of diversity.

But with biome bands obviously this doesn't work...

Also contrary to what some people say biome restriction is not "racist", black people are naturally more resistant to sunburns and gingers are A LOT more at risk for it, does that make biology racist? pretty dumb argument.

It's just not interesting because it's too restrictive and offers no choice, yes browns should be comfortable with jungle temperatures and even immune to yellow fever since it's their native biome but making other ethnicities unable to interact with anything in that biome is just dumb,uninteresting and dull gameplay that restricts possibilities instead of extending them.

Last edited by Dodge (2020-12-18 08:04:35)

DestinyCall · 2020-12-18 08:52:27

The way that biome restrictions work has nothing to do with biology. Let's not pretend this is all about melanin and uv protection. Gingers are not better adapted to live in tundra. White people are not universal translators. Brown people are not more suited for jungle living. Black people do not belong in the desert above all other races. It's a dumb system. Even if you shuffled the character models around to different biomes, it doesn't change the core issue.

The racism comes in when you decide to assign groups of people inherent value based on the color of their skin. When one race is better than another race because it has more useful powers or access to better things as a birthright. It's not a good thing when your game rewards players for judging each other by their skin. And it's not like you can argue that Jason didn't realize what he was doing. People pointed out the implications of this design choice pretty much immediately. He didn't care.

Grouping people by skin color is easy. Super easy. And unfortunately, it is also super easy to do it in a way that is super racist. Jason cut too many corners when he set-up biome restrictions and it really shows. The end result is not balanced or fun and it is frankly disrespectful toward people of all races. Which is really disappointing, because I would have loved to see more actual family diversity in OHOL, like jungle villages with unique buildings and clothing and the ability to build new villages in a wider range of biomes, so each town looks and feels distinct from its neighbor.

Instead we got forced segregation and non-trade.

pein · 2020-12-18 10:32:31

Dodge wrote:

We already have zones they are called biomes, you cant grow bananas in europe for example so you have to import them from another country that has a suitable climate and since it's far enough and has enough natural barriers you cant just walk there easily so people live there and cultivate bananas instead of cabbages like in europe, it's a natural form of diversity.
But with biome bands obviously this doesn't work...
Also contrary to what some people say biome restriction is not "racist", black people are naturally more resistant to sunburns and gingers are A LOT more at risk for it, does that make biology racist? pretty dumb argument.
It's just not interesting because it's too restrictive and offers no choice, yes browns should be comfortable with jungle temperatures and even immune to yellow fever since it's their native biome but making other ethnicities unable to interact with anything in that biome is just dumb,uninteresting and dull gameplay that restricts possibilities instead of extending them.

not true, it grows in Bulgaria now with the global warmup

races suck cause it's not a choice, restrictions are good when you can unlock them somehow

by a zone, I mean a chunk of land with a centre and some aoe effects could buff or nerf them

Dodge · 2020-12-18 11:16:10

DestinyCall wrote:

The way that biome restrictions work has nothing to do with biology. Let's not pretend this is all about melanin and uv protection. Gingers are not better adapted to live in tundra. White people are not universal translators. Brown people are not more suited for jungle living. Black people do not belong in the desert above all other races. It's a dumb system. Even if you shuffled the character models around to different biomes, it doesn't change the core issue.

Gingers being in snow is a placeholder for inuits or any other ethnicity that is used to live in that type of environment and adapted to it, if you go in the sahara desert in africa why are people mostly black/darker skin then?

It's an adaptation to the environment over a very long period of time, more sun means your body needs to find a way to protect from this harsh environment, if you think it's racist that's pretty dumb.

Why do you think you need to vacinate to go to some foreign countries but locals dont need to?

The point is that if you live in an environment long enough you enventually adapt to it over generations, that's what biome restriction is recreating.

As for whites if they didn't have language they wouldn't have any specialty.

It's your right to not like the update i dont like it too but screeching racism to make it removed is tasteless.

Spoonwood · 2020-12-18 12:07:01

Dodge wrote:

Gingers being in snow is a placeholder for inuits or any other ethnicity that is used to live in that type of environment and adapted to it, if you go in the sahara desert in africa why are people mostly black/darker skin then?
It's an adaptation to the environment over a very long period of time, more sun means your body needs to find a way to protect from this harsh environment, if you think it's racist that's pretty dumb.

Dodge, humanity originates in Africa. Skin color, I think, didn't change from predecessor species of homo species. So, it doesn't stand to reason that black skin for people in Africa consists of an adaptation.

Dodge wrote:

The point is that if you live in an environment long enough you enventually adapt to it over generations, that's what biome restriction is recreating.

No, it is NOT recreating that, because no one lives in the jungle, desert, or arctic. The other biomes come as the same for everyone.

They also are NOT biome restrictions. They are race restrictions, as everyone talk of whites suggests.

And denying the racism there is tasteless.

Dodge · 2020-12-18 12:40:44

Spoonwood wrote:

Skin color, I think, didn't change from predecessor species of homo species.

You have no idea what you are talking about, again...

a quick google search "where does black skin come from" results in:

"Due to natural selection, people who lived in areas of intense sunlight developed dark skin colouration to protect against ultraviolet (UV) light, mainly to protect their body from folate depletion. Evolutionary pigmentation of the skin was caused by ultraviolet radiation of the sun."

Go get your white face in the sahara desert sun and then complain that black people are being racist because they dont get as sunburnt as you lmao.

They have an evolutionnary advantage in that environment = RaCiSm

So fucking dumb

WumboJumbo · 2020-12-18 13:14:10

Dodge wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
Skin color, I think, didn't change from predecessor species of homo species.
You have no idea what you are talking about, again...
a quick google search "where does black skin come from" results in:
"Due to natural selection, people who lived in areas of intense sunlight developed dark skin colouration to protect against ultraviolet (UV) light, mainly to protect their body from folate depletion. Evolutionary pigmentation of the skin was caused by ultraviolet radiation of the sun."
Go get your white face in the sahara desert sun and then complain that black people are being racist because they dont get as sunburnt as you lmao.
They have an evolutionnary advantage in that environment = RaCiSm
So fucking dumb

Hey Dodge, where's your fedora?

JonySky · 2020-12-18 13:15:45

Dodge wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
Skin color, I think, didn't change from predecessor species of homo species.
You have no idea what you are talking about, again...
a quick google search "where does black skin come from" results in:
"Due to natural selection, people who lived in areas of intense sunlight developed dark skin colouration to protect against ultraviolet (UV) light, mainly to protect their body from folate depletion. Evolutionary pigmentation of the skin was caused by ultraviolet radiation of the sun."
Go get your white face in the sahara desert sun and then complain that black people are being racist because they dont get as sunburnt as you lmao.
They have an evolutionnary advantage in that environment = RaCiSm
So fucking dumb

have you noticed this?

Maybe what you think of as: "fucking dumb" for the rest of the players is not ...

It shows me once again that it is a little elaborate development and with sloppy solutions that generate a certain racist feeling

with this I am not saying that it is the main problem of OHOL ... but it is part of the problem ... sure!

Last edited by JonySky (2020-12-18 13:19:57)

ahead · 2020-12-18 13:21:18

it's good now, or at least better than it was

Dodge · 2020-12-18 13:22:55

WumboJumbo wrote:

Hey Dodge, where's your fedora?

At your mom's house

Dodge · 2020-12-18 13:30:09

JonySky wrote:

randomly showing player numbers

Is that supposed to prove something?

JonySky · 2020-12-18 13:32:47

ahead wrote:

it's good now, or at least better than it was

that it is better than a few months ago does not mean that it is good

steam discounted sales caused those 2 player max spikes ... not caused by the game itself ... that's not good

also ... have you noticed how long the balloon has deflated?

Last edited by JonySky (2020-12-18 13:33:55)

JonySky · 2020-12-18 13:35:10

Dodge wrote:

JonySky wrote:
randomly showing player numbers
Is that supposed to prove something?

included in the original post:

Maybe what you think of as: "fucking dumb" for other players is not ...

It shows me once again that it is a little elaborate development and with sloppy solutions that generate a certain racist feeling

with this I am not saying that it is the main problem of OHOL ... but it is part of the problem ... of course!

I add: nobody likes to play a game with racist views or based on racial limitations (nonsensical magical racial limitations, to try to force a non-existent commerce in a game where everything is thrown on the ground, on an unlimited map)

Last edited by JonySky (2020-12-18 13:42:43)

Dodge · 2020-12-18 13:56:40

JonySky wrote:

Dodge wrote:
JonySky wrote:
randomly showing player numbers
Is that supposed to prove something?
included in the original post:
Maybe what you think of as: "fucking dumb" for other players is not ...
It shows me once again that it is a little elaborate development and with sloppy solutions that generate a certain racist feeling
with this I am not saying that it is the main problem of OHOL ... but it is part of the problem ... of course!
I add: nobody likes to play a game with racist views or based on racial limitations (nonsensical magical racial limitations, to try to force a non-existent commerce in a game where everything is thrown on the ground, on an unlimited map)

It still doesn't explain why you are trying to corelate player numbers with "racism"

If the game is not good players leave, it's as simple as that.

Unless all the players and by that i mean the whole majority left BECAUSE they get the impression it's racist instead of just being bad and unenjoyable then you have absolutly no point.

But i doubt that most people are that stupid.

DestinyCall · 2020-12-18 14:29:47

Dodge wrote:

Gingers being in snow is a placeholder for inuits or any other ethnicity that is used to live in that type of environment and adapted to it, if you go in the sahara desert in africa why are people mostly black/darker skin then?

If gingers are just a placeholder for inuit or similar indigenous people of polar regions, why make them ginger? Just put the brown people in the tundra. Why use "ginger" at all?

Spoonwood · 2020-12-18 14:44:22

Again, there are no biome restrictions with respect to characters. There only exist race restrictions with respect to biomes *and* languages. And race restrictions aren't mirroring evolutionary adaptations in the real world. Never did. Non-whites only being able to understand their own language isn't an evolutionary adaptation and won't be in the future either. Gingers not faring well in deserts is not an evolutionary adaptation. Additionally, characters are not naturally restricted. They only get restricted when a server has at least 15 players on it. Furthermore, ohol characters do NOT live in any of those areas. Nor do they undergo genetic changes.

As for Dodge's comments he doesn't even provide the source of his quotation.

Anyways:

"Our ancestors eventually lost this fur and gained pigment in their skin. Although the exact timing and causes are debated, many researchers agree that when humans lost their fur, it helped us stay cool while foraging as upright-walking bipeds in the sunny, open habitats of equatorial Africa. The tradeoff, however, was bare skin that was exposed to intense, year-round UV rays. In this context — roughly 1 to 2 million years ago — darker skin was likely better to protect folate stores."

https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet … ors-evolve

"Until recently, researchers assumed that after human ancestors shed most body hair, sometime before 2 million years ago, they quickly evolved dark skin for protection from skin cancer and other harmful effects of UV radiation. Then, when humans migrated out of Africa and headed to the far north, they evolved lighter skin as an adaptation to limited sunlight"

"The most dramatic discovery concerned a gene known as MFSD12. Two mutations that decrease expression of this gene were found in high frequencies in people with the darkest skin. These variants arose about a half-million years ago, suggesting that human ancestors before that time may have had moderately dark skin, rather than the deep black hue created today by these mutations."

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/10 … skin-color

Dodge · 2020-12-18 14:53:05

Spoon nobody cares about your nitpicking

Also: "As for Dodge's comments he doesn't even provide the source of his quotation."

I literally said "a quick google search "where does black skin come from" results in:"

So again you're wrong or being anal either way not interesting.

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