Mating Mechanics Would Mean Less Incest Not More

Spoonwood · 2021-01-02 22:21:35

A while back Jason said this:

jasonrohrer wrote:

There's only one father in this game.
He is the father of all.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 152#p88152

So, for any female character generation two or later, that means that she reproduced with her father, and thus was engaged in incest. There wasn't a possibility of having a non-incestual relationship also and still having a child.

With some form of player based mating mechanics available to all players having their age within an age range, it would at least come as possible to have a child after an interaction with a distant cousin or someone of a different family (whether that interaction is something physical in game or a text command doesn't matter much on this point, nor does it matter if the interaction can be one way or needs to be done by two players). Thus, not all mothers from generation two or later would reproduce via incest.

Therefore, mating mechanics would not imply more incest, but on the contrary would imply less incest.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2021-01-02 22:30:47)

DestinyCall · 2021-01-03 00:11:00

I guess you were unsuccessful in your search for a better Jason incest quote. How disappointing.

...

Unfortunately, there is a fatal flaw in your argument. Sky Jason, Father of All, is clearly a god. The rules are different for gods.

If Greek mythology has taught me anything, it is that gods can fuck and eat whatever and whomever they like. Sometimes both at the same time while transformed into a swan.

...

And of course, if Sky Jason wants his daughters to be genetically unrelated from him and each other, pretty sure he can do that too.

Because ... god powers.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2021-01-03 07:53:22)

Spoonwood · 2021-01-03 01:21:35

DestinyCall wrote:

Unfortunately, there is a fatal flaw in your argument. Sky Jason, Father of All, is clearly a god. The rules are different for gods.
If Greek mythology has taught me anything, it is that gods can fuck and eat whatever and whomever they like. Sometimes both at the same time while transformed into a swan.

So I've used incest to mean reproduction by close relatives. Specifically, in this case reproduction caused by a father and his daughter.

Your response here just implies that such involves "*good* incest".

A similar thing got implied in the referenced thread, in that the response implied "*good* rape" as something that happens automatically and should happen automatically.

Edit: Also, you, Destiny, didn't talk at all about whether or not incest would decrease if mating mechanics got introduced. So, you didn't show a fatal flaw in my argument, since one, at bare minimum, has to claim a conclusion false to say that an argument is fatally flawed (one also has to show or assert all of the premises true).

Last edited by Spoonwood (2021-01-03 01:25:55)

DestinyCall · 2021-01-03 02:57:57

Wait, wait, wait ... do you not know where sky babies come from, Spoon? I thought everybody knew this. It is basic OHOL biology.

Sky babies fall from the sky as a gift from the All Father, He who Watches from on High. They drop at the feet of chosen women to signify that Sky Jason is pleased and wishes for their family line to continue.

And yes, the Sky Father's godhood introduces a fatal flaw to your argument, because incest is NOT reproduction between close family. It is SEX. The sexual act itself is what makes it incest. Reproduction is not required.

And sky babies are not produced by sex between a man and a women. They are manifested by a god, fully formed, at the feet of random women. Eves never have sex with Sky Jason. It isn't necessary, because ... god powers. Sky babies are formed from the Holy Code, not from a sperm and egg. Eves and all their daughters are virgin mothers, pure and undefiled by sexual acts.

In fact, if Jason added "mating mechanics" into the game, it would increase incest, by implying that humans were having sex with related humans to produce non-sky babies.

Sky babies are incest-free babies. No sex = no sexual perversion

Spoonwood · 2021-01-03 05:05:06

DestinyCall wrote:

.... Eves and all their daughters are virgin mothers, pure and undefiled by sexual acts.

Maybe I should have made the question in another thread I made "Does this game pander to the Christian female ego?", after this talk of virgins having children without anything messy.

This talk of "Holy Code" is especially hollow for a game that has many changes and has no shortage of bugs, even if you were to reject all of the things I've talked about.

In the real world if we knew that a father and his daughter reproduced, we'd infer incest, or that genetic material got transferred to another, and we'd, or at least myself, would doubt that both parties did so in a consensual manner, and there would exist a serious ethical violation on the part of one of the parties, even if no intercourse was involved. I think people would still feel concerned if they knew of a child produced through exchange of genetic material between father and daughter *and* they believed such an arrangement consensual.

Many players don't understand the biome band mechanics. They don't have an option to avoid pregnancy (since they don't know how to become infertile). Mating mechanics would mean less messy situations like that, given that the default before taking part in the mating ritual would be infertility.

DestinyCall wrote:

In fact, if Jason added "mating mechanics" into the game, it would increase incest, by implying that humans were having sex with related humans to produce non-sky babies.

The term "mating", doesn't always apply to opposite sex organisms having intercourse. It also applies to two hermaphroditic organisms exchanging genetic material, both of whom can self-fertilize: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mating So, no, "mating mechanics" wouldn't imply that the stick figure characters were having sex with each other. All "mating mechanics" would imply in reality would consist in a *pair* of players having the ability to render fertility status of one of them active.

DestinyCall wrote:

No sex = no sexual perversion

And is one expected to believe that masturbation and uses of pornography are improperly regarded as sexual perversion by many, many Christians, since neither involve intercourse?

DestinyCall · 2021-01-03 05:43:51

Why settle for LESS incest when you could have NO incest.
Have you considered parthenogenetic reproduction as an alternative spawning mechanic that avoids sex entirely?

Although rare among vertebrates, the Mourning Gecko is one example of a species that reproduces by laying self-fertile eggs. No mating required. Just lots of tiny baby geckos running all over the place.

Instead of One Hour One Life, the game could be One Lizard One Hour. In OLOH, we would all be parthenogenic lizard people that die of old age after sixty minutes. The Eve would hatch from a lone egg near a natural heat source, like a geothermal vent or sulfur pool in the desert. When she grows old enough, she will start to lay eggs at random. These eggs must be kept warm or placed in a warm environment in order to be viable. When new players join the game, instead of looking for fertile mothers, the game would check for viable eggs. After a while, eggs would become "old" and they would no longer hatch. But they could still serve a purpose to the lizard village. Old or rotten eggs could be broken over straw to form compost. The empty egg shells could be ground down for calcium, an important nutrient for any egglayer. And of course, when times are tough ... omelets would be an important emergency food source.

Young lizard people would be vulnerable and weak. Lizards do not nurse their young, but some reptiles do protect and care for their offspring, so I am sure that lizard people would make a nursery ... or more accurately, a hatchery, for the communal care and feeding of young lizards.

I imagine that most of the village population would simply drop off their eggs at the hatchery and go about their business, content in the knowledge that a full hatchery ensured the future of their village. But some lizard people would, of course, remain with the eggs, to protect them from harm, ensure that they stayed warm enough to hatch and guide young lizards to food and clothing after they hatched.

The hatchery would be the perfect spot for older lizards to warm up by the fire while telling stories to the recent hatchlings. Ah, such a heart-warming sight!

Egg-laying would solve so many problems. Everyone could be a mother/father. And if you didn't want that kind of responsibility, fresh eggs are a healthy snack! It is a win-win.

Spoonwood · 2021-01-03 06:08:47

DestinyCall wrote:

Instead of One Hour One Life, the game could be One Lizard One Hour. In OLOH, we would all be parthenogenic lizard people that die of old age after sixty minutes. The Eve would hatch from a lone egg near a natural heat source, like a geothermal vent or sulfur pool in the desert. When she grows old enough, she will start to lay eggs at random. These eggs must be kept warm or placed in a warm environment in order to be viable. When new players join the game, instead of looking for fertile mothers, the game would check for viable eggs. After a while, eggs would become "old" and they would no longer hatch. But they could still serve a purpose to the lizard village. Old or rotten eggs could be broken over straw to form compost. The empty egg shells could be ground down for calcium, an important nutrient for any egglayer. And of course, when times are tough ... omelets would be an important emergency food source.

This did make me laugh.

But, why One Lizard One Life, instead of One Gorn One Life? Just in case you don't know what a Gorn is or want a reminder... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SK0cUNMnMM or the more modern version, which I also find hilarious... well Archer's obsession with fighting a Gorn I did, but that isn't quite shown in this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK7NZ9IDtTc

More serious, the answer to why parthenogenesis doesn't work as suitable lies in that there wouldn't consists of any team work by such a system with one parental agent engaging in parthenogenesis. The Gorn parent would lay her/his eggs, and we'd have the same issue of players "doing it all by their own self" all over again, just with a stronger, more majestic creature that none of us could ever hope to better in a beauty contest, even in our younger years!!!!

"You layed the eggs there Gorn lady/sir. She's your kid!"

Two parent reproduction would have the advantage of encouraging teamwork, or at least getting players to consider such much better, I would think. And new players might even feel that they were getting raised by a team of parents from their first life.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2021-01-03 06:14:30)

DestinyCall · 2021-01-03 07:50:30

Have you ever heard the saying "It takes a village to raise a child"?

Why settle for just TWO parents when you could be reared by the whole village? We already work as a team, building, gathering, farming, and exploring together, for the common goal of village survival. There is no need to divide us up into artificial pairs when we are all on the same team already.

OHOL isn't really designed for classic nuclear families. We don't live with our parents in single-family homes. We don't spend time getting to know people in our same age group so we can select compatible husbands/wives/etc. We don't go to college, get jobs, share financial responsibilities and raise kids with our life partner. We just don't organize our One Hour lives like that and probably never will.

I wouldn't mind if Jason added a partnership or marriage mechanic into the game to allow people to team up and share parenting responsibilities, if they felt like doing that. But I question how it would fit into the current game-play structure. I don't think it could be added as a direct replacement for female-only fertility without creating a whole host of new problems. That being said, I know many people would be excited to see true marriage or fatherhood added to OHOL and I think it is worth discussing how such a mechanic might work in-game on a practical level.

But eggs would be much simpler.

DestinyCall · 2021-01-03 08:02:02

And I must agree ... Gorn are magnificent creatures. We would be lucky to call ourselves Gorn.

Berry High Priest · 2021-01-03 14:19:24

/sex spoonwood
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )

QuirkySmirkyIan · 2021-01-03 15:58:45

Berry High Priest wrote:

/sex spoonwood
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )

*Ding* A new offspring baby will be born in 90 seconds!

Bakafeck · 2021-01-05 03:27:24

Gonna be honest man... this is a game. If I gotta fuck my sister to get shit done in it, I'm probably gonna do it. It'll be weird, and we'll laugh about it awkwardly. I like the idea of communities raising the kids, so I'm not gonna think so much about a game's short-cut to baby-making. Making mating will just add complexities and not actually reduce incest unless incest genes are a thing to watch out for, and life is too short for that probably.

DestinyCall wrote:

Why settle for just TWO parents when you could be reared by the whole village? We already work as a team, building, gathering, farming, and exploring together, for the common goal of village survival. There is no need to divide us up into artificial pairs when we are all on the same team already.

Pretty much this.

Spoonwood · 2021-01-05 04:07:28

Bakafeck wrote:

Gonna be honest man... this is a game. If I gotta fuck my sister to get shit done in it, I'm probably gonna do it. It'll be weird, and we'll laugh about it awkwardly. I like the idea of communities raising the kids, so I'm not gonna think so much about a game's short-cut to baby-making. Making mating will just add complexities and not actually reduce incest unless incest genes are a thing to watch out for, and life is too short for that probably.
DestinyCall wrote:
Why settle for just TWO parents when you could be reared by the whole village? We already work as a team, building, gathering, farming, and exploring together, for the common goal of village survival. There is no need to divide us up into artificial pairs when we are all on the same team already.
Pretty much this.

The "father of all" narrative already implies that players reproduce with their father (unless an Eve). Thus, incest already exists and is abundant.

Or, no incest at all would exist via active player based mating mechanics (via their characters), since no real-world sex would be taking place via such mechanics.

Bakafeck · 2021-01-05 04:46:40

Spoonwood wrote:

The "father of all" narrative already implies that players reproduce with their father (unless an Eve). Thus, incest already exists and is abundant.
Or, no incest at all would exist via active player based mating mechanics (via their characters), since no real-world sex would be taking place via such mechanics.

Yes, we know it exists and that it is abundant. My comments still stand, though. It's just a game.
The game has implied incest. Add mating and the incest would be less than implied, as all the characters are closely related enough to make it difficult to avoid, forcing people to do it knowing full well what they're doing. The incest is still very there, and very fictional.

Spoonwood · 2021-01-05 06:40:38

Bakafeck wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
The "father of all" narrative already implies that players reproduce with their father (unless an Eve). Thus, incest already exists and is abundant.
Or, no incest at all would exist via active player based mating mechanics (via their characters), since no real-world sex would be taking place via such mechanics.
Yes, we know it exists and that it is abundant. My comments still stand, though. It's just a game.
The game has implied incest. Add mating and the incest would be less than implied, as all the characters are closely related enough to make it difficult to avoid, forcing people to do it knowing full well what they're doing. The incest is still very there, and very fictional.

Mating partners could get arranged by the game such that they only existed in other families, and they not be fertile if they didn't engage in some fertility ritual with the other player in the other family.

Under such a system, avoiding incest would come as a simple matter for players.

Bakafeck · 2021-01-05 07:27:08

Spoonwood wrote:

Mating partners could get arranged by the game such that they only existed in other families, and they not be fertile if they didn't engage in some fertility ritual with the other player in the other family.
Under such a system, avoiding incest would come as a simple matter for players.

No one would be born though. It'd be too much work. There's no point to that. Magical sky babies with questionable origins works just fine. No one has to wait very long.

Villas · 2021-01-05 08:05:56

I don't think there is incest in this game. We just don't have father, simple as that.

That's why you can run away at the age of 3 and have a kid far away from town, even without seeing a human being for decades.
That's why daughters of Eves can have kids even when they don't have a brother, that's why Hope, the last girl in a town of two people, she and her mother, can have kids and repopulate the town.

It's not incest, women just don't need man to reproduce in this game, even the animals don't need a couple in order to have babies.

This game is not exactly like life, there are lot of things that happen in real life that doesn't happen in the game and vice-versa, we don't have diseases, mutations and whatnot, it's just different from real life, we can't have sex, we don't need a man in order to be pregnant, you can be isolate for 35 years and have a kid if you want to, our of nowhere.

Of course I would like mating mechanics, but as an extra, a way of mix races and whatnot, even though I don't think it is needed to reduce incest, we don't have incest. We will have a lot of incest if we have mating mechanics though, principally in small towns.

We do bad things in game that we would never do in real life. We kill people in game because they are being childish or because they are swearing people, we wouldn't do that in real life. It is ok if it is in game and it is not disrespecting anyone nor incentivizing anything bad in real life, so even if incest was implied, it wouldn't be horrible, the thing is, there is no incest, women can just have bbs by themselves, at least in my point of view it is how the game works.

Spoonwood · 2021-01-05 16:47:26

Bakafeck wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
Mating partners could get arranged by the game such that they only existed in other families, and they not be fertile if they didn't engage in some fertility ritual with the other player in the other family.
Under such a system, avoiding incest would come as a simple matter for players.
No one would be born though. It'd be too much work. There's no point to that. Magical sky babies with questionable origins works just fine. No one has to wait very long.

The current system doesn't have teamwork with respect to children. That's an issue.

Also, there's no limit on the number of players starting as Eves, and players could, in principle, start as 3 year olds or 8 year olds.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2021-01-05 22:20:03)

Dodge · 2021-01-05 17:35:23

"The current system doesn't have teamwork with respect to children. That's an issue."

Even if it's an issue it doesn't mean any shitty solution is the right one, that's how we got object dropping biomes and village only babies.

Like Bakafeck mentionned no one would be born if you had to mate, there would be hour long waiting queues.

Also Jason being the father of everyone born in the game is a metaphor, since he drew the characters and coded the game it doesn't mean that he literally fucks every in game character.

Spoonwood · 2021-01-05 22:19:50

Dodge wrote:

Like Bakafeck mentionned no one would be born if you had to mate, there would be hour long waiting queues.

Again, there are no limits on the number of players starting as Eves. Players could also start as 3 year olds or 8 year olds. Or the game could have computer controlled characters that play and birth children.

Dodge wrote:

Also Jason being the father of everyone born in the game is a metaphor, since he drew the characters and coded the game it doesn't mean that he literally fucks every in game character.

The metaphor means that he reproduces with every character who is not an Eve, implying incest for all mothers who are not Eves.

It's simply too easy to have children. The single parent system is overpowered and comes as the underlying reason why teamwork in the game is so weak.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2021-01-05 22:21:48)

DestinyCall · 2021-01-05 22:54:18

You really need to learn to recognize when you have latched onto a bad argument, Spoonwood.

Sometimes, even if you win a battle, you have already lost the war. You should let this one go.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2021-01-05 23:20:33)

Spoonwood · 2021-01-06 00:44:22

DestinyCall wrote:

You really need to learn to recognize when you have latched onto a bad argument, Spoonwood.

I have plenty of experience in recognizing bad arguments, thank you.

I also didn't ask for your advice.

And it still stands that parental model is single-player based. It's all "you can do it all yourself" and "you don't need anyone else". It discourages teamwork and precludes the possibility of teamwork. The game has problems with teamwork, because of that parental model.

DestinyCall · 2021-01-06 00:59:26

I don't need to be asked. I happily offer excellent high quality advice, completely free of charge. Not my fault if you ignore my wisdom, but I would feel bad if I didn't provide help when I see someone making the same mistakes, over and over and over again.

And I am afraid you are not very good at recognizing the weaknesses in your own reasoning. Or admitting when you have made a mistake.

As someone once said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Bakafeck · 2021-01-06 03:15:21

Spoonwood wrote:

And it still stands that parental model is single-player based. It's all "you can do it all yourself" and "you don't need anyone else". It discourages teamwork and precludes the possibility of teamwork. The game has problems with teamwork, because of that parental model.

...No one can move as a baby though. No one can interact with some important tools as a child. Everyone needs care for like... 5 minutes at least. Then one relies on what their predecessors built, adding and tending to it. Even if the parental roles aren't typical, they're still there in a way. Even with unlimited eves, chances are a person is born needing others, and are accepted for relying on them if they help out in return. I haven't seen teamwork discouraged at all. Social things, like celebrations and such, are tossed aside for a lack of time, not lack of teamwork (minus the kid who asked me to help them bury their mother, so we had a mini funeral, we just made time for that anyway).

One of my lives I took over making dirt specifically. The person who was harvesting wheat and then making the dirt then only had half the load of work. We both still worked hard though, so we made twice the dirt. The farm didn't know what to do with all of it. That teamwork happened naturally. We didn't even exchange words, we just depended on each other. The odd parenting model didn't make that harder to do. It sounds like you just want dads because you want dads, which is fine, but it doesn't need all of this to say it, does it?

Additionally, it may not be accurate to call the parental model we have as single-player based. Naturally, nurseries were made to accommodate mothers and their children. Other women who come in to the nursery often feed babies that aren't their own. I was born to an afk mother once, and was adopted before I could starve, since my mother afk'd in the nursery. It's not the typical mother and father, but rather a community experience, which once again, technically facilitates teamwork. Not all the time, but it happens.

Spoonwood · 2021-01-06 04:05:27

DestinyCall wrote:

I don't need to be asked. I happily offer excellent high quality advice, completely free of charge. Not my fault if you ignore my wisdom, but I would feel bad if I didn't provide help when I see someone making the same mistakes, over and over and over again.
And I am afraid you are not very good at recognizing the weaknesses in your own reasoning. Or admitting when you have made a mistake.

You don't offer high quality advice.

Also, if you are afraid, then you fear something that isn't real here.

I didn't make a mistake when I said that this game encourages a "do it all yourself" mentality with its single parent model. I also didn't expect different results. I didn't expect you to change your mind, because you'd rather sit there acting like you have a superior moral position, because it suits your moral posturing. Others on this forum have commented that you have acted that way in the past as I recall.

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Mating Mechanics Would Mean Less Incest Not More

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