The Super Complicated Iron System
To loosen a muddy iron vein, you must be the first person in the family to do so. Usually, this is done by an eve or one of her children, but there is a chance that an older family didn’t spend their iron mine, if they moved into an old town. To loosen a vein, you must put 10 round stones on a wet natural spring. This is also the first step to making a well. After you put the stones down, that spring site is claimed by your family, and if you are the first person to do so, the iron mines directly east and west of it will open up. Follow the spring line into the gray biome to check for nearby iron veins. The spring with stones will loosen up to four veins east and four veins west.

Leadership! Leaders are incredibly important to your town. They can give you orders, they can be a waypoint for you, and they can kill griefers.

So how do you get leadership? Well it's VERY complicated (as everything is in this stupid game) as becoming leader is tied to your GENETIC FITNESS score. What is genetic fitness? WELL lemme do my absolute best to explain.

So a brand new account has an average life of 30 years old. Your average age is your goal line. If you live over 30 years old you will gain points and your average age will increase, and if you die before 30 you lose points and your average age goes down. Sounds simple? HA. Not only does your lives count, but your closest family members lives count towards your score as well! Your children, your mother, your grandmother, your siblings, and nieces and nephews all count towards your score. If they live/die before your average age they will give/drain you points. So basically it's very difficult to gain score. It requires you to be aware of your family members and do your best to keep them alive. Everytime a baby that counts for your score is born you'll get a message that says "A new offspring baby is born x meters away". You'll also see FAMILY above the heads of family members that count for you too. Babies that die of SIDS do not count towards your score.

You can see the leaderboards here. The names it assigns everyone is completely random.

SO ANYWAYS. LEADERSHIP. If your genetic fitness is high you have a very high chance of being randomly assigned leader after your current leader dies. As leader you can issue orders to your followers by saying "Order, blahblahblah". Your followers will see your message in the top left hand of their screen. This is a very good way of spreading information throughout your town. It's a good way to assign jobs, and ask for help. It's very very important. Leaders are also the only way to kill people. A leader can "exile" somebody from town and once that person is exiled they can be freely killed by anyone. This is why having a good leader is important. If someone is accused of griefing a leader should immediately exile them. They will always lie and say they didn't do it, so talking to them does nothing. It's better to kill and move on. Another thing leaders are good for is being a global waypoint for you. If you type /leader you will get an arrow leading to your leader. If you're ever lost this is a good way to find home. This also means if you're leader it is your duty to stay in town. Delegate outside town jobs to others.

Now leadership can also be passed on. You can choose who will become leader next, BUT this is VERY VERY VERY BAD. Leadership is so important and giving it to a random person can kill families. If they're evil they can kill everyone, if they're stupid they will let a griefer run rampant. It's better to let the game decide who will be the leader. I've never seen anyone ask for leadership be good. Asking for leadership is a known bad sign and people who do are usually cursed. If you do find yourself with a bad leader you can say "/unfollow" to not follow them anymore.

Anyways, that's the basics of leadership.

Food gets worse the further fams survive too. So yumming is vital. Can't break yum chains anymore.

fug · 2021-03-25 00:36:24

It's okay, we all look back at our early teenage years and cringe. If you're not cringing at your past self you've likely not grown much as a person.

Aurora Aurora · 2021-03-26 17:52:43

DiscardedSlinky wrote:

I'mma just copy and paste stuff cause I'm lazy.

Race restrictions.
Families and biomes are race locked. Each family has to stay within their bands on the map or else they can't have kids.
Races and Bands
Arctic experts / ginger family the only people who can interact with objects inside the arctic biome.
Language experts / white family the only people who understand the language of every other fam immediately. Do not have a biome.
Jungle experts / brown family the only people who can interact with items inside a jungle biome.
Desert experts / black family the only people who can interact with items inside a desert biome.
The bands (arctic, mountain, jungle, and desert) spawn in this order from north to south. Each race is only fertile in their band.

Oh my fucking god they made racism

TheRubyCart · 2021-03-26 20:00:43

Auwowra (uwu) wrote:

DiscardedSlinky wrote:
I'mma just copy and paste stuff cause I'm lazy.

Race restrictions.
Families and biomes are race locked. Each family has to stay within their bands on the map or else they can't have kids.
Races and Bands
Arctic experts / ginger family the only people who can interact with objects inside the arctic biome.
Language experts / white family the only people who understand the language of every other fam immediately. Do not have a biome.
Jungle experts / brown family the only people who can interact with items inside a jungle biome.
Desert experts / black family the only people who can interact with items inside a desert biome.
The bands (arctic, mountain, jungle, and desert) spawn in this order from north to south. Each race is only fertile in their band.
Oh my fucking god they made wacism

Sweet Home Alabama!

Aurora Aurora · 2021-03-27 10:49:17

Bro the state of this forum makes me sad as fuck! There used to be like 30 new post a day back in pre-steam times. The fuck happened?

Dodge · 2021-03-27 11:58:23

Aurora Aurora wrote:

Bro the state of this forum makes me sad as fuck! There used to be like 30 new post a day back in pre-steam times. The fuck happened?

Bad game = dead game = dead forum

Aurora Aurora · 2021-03-27 17:33:05

Dodge wrote:

Aurora Aurora wrote:
Bro the state of this forum makes me sad as fuck! There used to be like 30 new post a day back in pre-steam times. The fuck happened?
Bad game = dead game = dead forum

Aww man, the game isn't bad. A bit confused about the racism and the chinese social credit score updates tho

Dodge · 2021-03-27 19:45:41

Aurora Aurora wrote:

Dodge wrote:
Aurora Aurora wrote:
Bro the state of this forum makes me sad as fuck! There used to be like 30 new post a day back in pre-steam times. The fuck happened?
Bad game = dead game = dead forum
Aww man, the game isn't bad. A bit confused about the racism and the chinese social credit score updates tho

That's sweet but if the game was good there would be a lot more players, there have been multiple occasions, steam sales and others that had servers with more than 200 players and they pretty much all left.

Realistically we could have a world that makes sense with oceans and continents with different biomes, key ressources in fixed places that are exploitable in an interesting way so different families make outpost to control these ressource rich areas, interesting dynamics between the different families that would have both advantages and disadvantages to interact with them in a peaceful way or a more hostile one, more content that enhances gameplay instead of being completelly useless, the list goes on.

Instead of that we have a forced attachment to a place that makes you unable to make a village or settlement everywhere you want because the dev doesnt understand the contradiction of an infinite world with unlimited ressources and the concept of valuable ressources trough limited number.

If you're confused about the "racism" update or biome specialization/restriction update, basically he wants a reason for the different families to interact with each other, he wanted them to trade for the ressources they can get from their biome, so latex from browns with sulfur from blacks for example.

Obviously it's a joke for two reasons, since you need the other people ressources to progress without any possibility to get if yourself and since you can spawn in any family you want, players end up just gifting ressources to the other village because why wouldn't you, if you dont do it you basically shoot yourself in the foot for one of your next lives.

So instead of some interesting trade where two families would decide on what they would exchange their precious ressources for what other ressources, discuss on the price, or even go to war in case they refuse to, instead of that we have some forced restriction that makes you drop objects if you're in the "wrong" biome and brings nothing interesting to the table.

Honestly if it keeps going in this direction and Jason doesn't rethink in depth core aspects of the game i dont see this going anywhere.

Aurora Aurora · 2021-03-27 19:48:10

Dodge wrote:

Aurora Aurora wrote:
Dodge wrote:
Bad game = dead game = dead forum
Aww man, the game isn't bad. A bit confused about the racism and the chinese social credit score updates tho
That's sweet but if the game was good there would be a lot more players, there have been multiple occasions, steam sales and others that had servers with more than 200 players and they pretty much all left.
Realistically we could have a world that makes sense with oceans and continents with different biomes, key ressources in fixed places that are exploitable in an interesting way so different families make outpost to control these ressource rich areas, interesting dynamics between the different families that would have both advantages and disadvantages to interact with them in a peaceful way or a more hostile one, more content that enhances gameplay instead of being completelly useless, the list goes on.
Instead of that we have a forced attachment to a place that makes you unable to make a village or settlement everywhere you want because the dev doesnt understand the contradiction of an infinite world with unlimited ressources and the concept of valuable ressources trough limited number.
If you're confused about the "racism" update or biome specialization/restriction update, basically he wants a reason for the different families to interact with each other, he wanted them to trade for the ressources they can get from their biome, so latex from browns with sulfur from blacks for example.
Obviously it's a joke for two reasons, since you need the other people ressources to progress without any possibility to get if yourself and since you can spawn in any family you want, players end up just gifting ressources to the other village because why wouldn't you, if you dont do it you basically shoot yourself in the foot for one of your next lives.
So instead of some interesting trade where two families would decide on what they would exchange their precious ressources for what other ressources, discuss on the price, or even go to war in case they refuse to, instead of that we have some forced restriction that makes you drop objects if you're in the "wrong" biome and brings nothing interesting to the table.
Honestly if it keeps going in this direction and Jason doesn't rethink in depth core aspects of the game i dont see this going anywhere.

Smh this is why Jason should've hired me when I was 14 and begged to add gay dads and wedding rings into the game. Instead, we got racism.

Spoonwood · 2021-03-28 02:39:26

Dodge wrote:

Instead of that we have a forced attachment to a place that makes you unable to make a village or settlement everywhere you want because the dev doesnt understand the contradiction of an infinite world with unlimited ressources and the concept of valuable ressources trough limited number.

You haven't taken into time constraints here. Infinite resources of the world differs from time constraints, and there's only so many resources locally. So, the infinite resources of the world don't make for a problem in that way. Additionally, the server isn't half full most of the time. There is not enough resources in an area to support a maximum number of players on a server, so it's not like players have too many resources.

There is almost always though someone trying to start a satellite camp or place of their own, and that isn't consistent with the iron system.

Dodge wrote:

Obviously it's a joke for two reasons, since you need the other people ressources to progress without any possibility to get if yourself and since you can spawn in any family you want, players end up just gifting ressources to the other village because why wouldn't you, if you dont do it you basically shoot yourself in the foot for one of your next lives.

Or some family you preferred over your current one, such as liking gingers for late game reasons, or one where you were Eve, child of Eve, or early generation. Like I don't like the tan Fink family right now: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=7231271 as I think they resettled right in some diesel water pump town, and now are 2k right of blacks (Downers: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … d=7231270), gingers (Justices: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … d=7231272), *and* whites (Chickering: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=7230574 who settled in a spot that Spoons found at a deep well stage after I had run left for some 600-800 tiles I think and had already had 4 or 5 children I think: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … d=7229913), and my third life as a Spoon was male and I lost living relatives along that line. Going from gingers to tans for latex and palm oil and then back to gingers, well that's probably a whole sixty minutes. Earlier today I went from white Spoons to tans after getting some lassos for buckets, got palm oil, and latex from them, took a horse from gingers, took the horse to tans, got latex and palm oil, dropped the horse back at gingers, went back home, found another horse by luck, and then dropped the goods in the kitchen dying at 60. Now gingers might have the same problem later tonight or this morning (unless tans die out). But, I got born as tan (I didn't /die, just happened by luck), went to white Spoons, the last female didn't have any children somewhat by luck (though I couldn't get her to hat), so I got gingers latex, palm oil, and even sulfured the latex from blacks, because if I don't know what I want to do or help, I default to helping Gingers in a life, and it made sense since they were further left. Gingers, also, I think of having a habit of settling new camps left instead of resettling right, because they need to keep moving left to find fresh tarry spots.

The system kind of worked during arc restart given that we ignore the racial aspects. During that time period, with the initial families, I saw some exchanges and families weren't spread out left to right. There didn't seem to exist mistiming issues also. But, as soon as new Eves come after that due to no more Eves of one race, it seems that someone resettles right while Eve spawns tend left. Then we have mistiming issues, like how some tan lady (I don't blame her) came into my camp when I was literally this black Eve: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=7218607 threw I think 8 palm kernels on the ground. I got her sulfur and all, and wished she had some latex (not like it's needed that early, especially when you have access to horses), but it's kind of weird (though maybe not if I were Eve French Fry... which is still kind of strange in a way). Also, I'll mention that my second life that day was a ginger lady, not a black Spoon, because I had nullified the reincarnation mechanic, and brought saltwater and sealskins to the black spoons (and put eggs on dung, since as Eve I walked kind of far to get a goose). And then it gets super weird when someone with a truck rolls into the equivalent of a prehistoric society needing something or throwing objects at people.

Scavenging old town locations also kind of is the only thing which suggests to people to not to resettle old towns right of you or your mom's Eve spawn. But, that, of course, encourages getting advanced technology too early. One big mess if you ask me.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2021-03-28 02:42:52)

Dodge · 2021-03-28 06:07:46

Spoonwood wrote:

Dodge wrote:
Instead of that we have a forced attachment to a place that makes you unable to make a village or settlement everywhere you want because the dev doesnt understand the contradiction of an infinite world with unlimited ressources and the concept of valuable ressources trough limited number.
You haven't taken into time constraints here. Infinite resources of the world differs from time constraints, and there's only so many resources locally. So, the infinite resources of the world don't make for a problem in that way. Additionally, the server isn't half full most of the time. There is not enough resources in an area to support a maximum number of players on a server, so it's not like players have too many resources.
There is almost always though someone trying to start a satellite camp or place of their own, and that isn't consistent with the iron system.
.

You forget to take into account families, they are infinite too in this infinite world, when a family dies it doesn't matter since another one gets born and the infinite cycle continues.

There is no clear beginning or end globally speaking, so it keeps going on again and again, if you couple this with an infinite map with infinite ressources you effectivly never reach a point where ressources play an interesting part in the dynamics between civilisations.

Villages just die and new ones get born, there's no buildup, no tension between families over the control of ressources, no intellectual challenge to figure out the best diplomatic outcome, the list goes on...

You can say all you want the game speaks for itself, these scenarios just dont happen.

Spoonwood · 2021-03-28 10:59:37

Dodge wrote:

You forget to take into account families, they are infinite too in this infinite world, when a family dies it doesn't matter since another one gets born and the infinite cycle continues.

There exists a finite number of families in the game. There exist only so many families at a time, because the limitations on player population (there exist more than 600 families in the real world). Also, because the game doesn't spawn new Eves unless certain conditions get satisfied. On top of that, there have existed several hour long gaps without a family of one of the four races.

Dodge wrote:

There is no clear beginning or end globally speaking ...

Each arc restart is a clear beginning to the world, and each arc reset is a clear end globally speaking these days with all players removed from a server when an arc ends.

Dodge wrote:

if you couple this with an infinite map with infinite ressources you effectivly never reach a point where ressources play an interesting part in the dynamics between civilisations.

Finite resources wouldn't be interesting at all between civilizations. It's a survival game. Players need the opportunity to survive. Finite resources would mean insufficient opportunity for players to continue to exist, and thus there wouldn't exist as much survival, since survival requires players continuing to exist for it have meaning. Finite resources would mean fewer one hour one life experiences, since some players would die due to a lack of resources. Fewer one hour one life experiences is boring. Finite resources is a boring concept.

Dodge wrote:

Villages just die and new ones get born, there's no buildup, no tension between families over the control of ressources, no intellectual challenge to figure out the best diplomatic outcome, the list goes on

There does exist buildup of places and families. There also does exist tension between people of different families. Resource contention though is a boring concept. Resource contention would mean less survival for players. It would also mean fewer one hour one life experiences. You wanting resource contention mostly shows that you don't have empathy for players and would like to see their characters die in game. It's not a game about players dying from it's advertisement. It's a *multiplayer survival* game. Resource contention is completely incompatible with that concept, because the weakest players in terms of resource management need the ability to survive for that to have meaning, as a team is only as good as it's weakest link.

Dodge wrote:

You can say all you want the game speaks for itself, these scenarios just dont happen.

Those scenarios should not happen. They would be boring for a multiplayer survival game, as they would not involve survival as much as currently happens. They would also not involve multiplayer cooperation or less multiplayer cooperation. They would also discourage teamwork. They would also discourage players from caring about each other in game by taking care of them. They would discourage gifting from one player to another. They would discourage multiplayer survival. This game already has too many contradictions in terms of game design principles which has held it back for a long time. It doesn't need more.

Dodge · 2021-03-28 17:44:41

Spoonwood wrote:

Those scenarios should not happen.

Dev disagrees and i do too, maybe something is wrong with you.

It's not supposed to be a farming/crafting simulator, maybe you got confused with the term "building civilisations" try to view them as a structure with multiple elements that compose them, it's not only about having the blocks it's everything that happens within it, all the wheels and cogs that make the civilisations function, is what is meant by "building civilisations".

You can disagree with it all you want it wont change the fact that it's how the person that creates this game pictures it.

Also you're completely wrong about families, teamwork and your even dilusionnal about what's actually happenning in the current game, plus you have no idea what you're talking about when you mention ressources since it's all about progression and unlocking new tiers so the limited ressources doesn't mean limited overall lifespan that's up to the players to survive and climb the techtree with the ressources they have.

We have limited coal on earth does it mean our production of electricity is limited by it?

No, because we where able to find other sources like nuclear and renewable energy and in the future who knows what we will find out.

Spoonwood · 2021-03-29 01:16:43

Dodge wrote:

Dev disagrees and i do too, maybe something is wrong with you.

I don't think that's likely. Multiplayer survival means multiple players surviving. If the dev disagrees, it means he is falsely advertising his product, because all definitions of "survival" involve continuing to exist.

Dodge wrote:

It's not supposed to be a farming/crafting simulator, maybe you got confused with the term "building civilisations" try to view them as a structure with multiple elements that compose them, it's not only about having the blocks it's everything that happens within it, all the wheels and cogs that make the civilisations function, is what is meant by "building civilisations".

No, it's not supposed to have all the wheels and cogs that make civilization function. He's even said before that some things have to get left out.

jasonrohrer wrote:

In a 10,000 foot view of humanity where each second is six days, I have to pick which details to include, and which to leave out.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 354#p88354

Also, where the hell is the nuclear family? Or patriarchal (rule by the father) structures? If you don't think that such structures have had a serious role in the development of civilization, you have kidded yourself.

And heck, even if the game had fathers, it couldn't have all the wheels and cogs that make civilization function. Civilization is far, far, more complex than what can get captured in a game.

Dodge wrote:

You can disagree with it all you want it wont change the fact that it's how the person that creates this game pictures it.

Right, you don't want him to speak for himself. Also, if he's picturing things that way, then he's a liar or inconsistent, because he hasn't intended to create a multiplayer survival game, because any multiplayer survival requires that player characters continue to exist in some sense, not that they die because of how the game is designed, since survival logically requires continuing to exist.

Dodge wrote:

Also you're completely wrong about families, teamwork and your even dilusionnal about what's actually happenning in the current game

I'm pretty sure I have many more hours logged over the past few months than you Dodge. I've asked when you've last played before and I think you said you weren't playing. Because of that, I almost surely have a better handle on what is going on in the game, especially recently, than you.

Dodge wrote:

plus you have no idea what you're talking about when you mention ressources since it's all about progression and unlocking new tiers so the limited ressources doesn't mean limited overall lifespan that's up to the players to survive and climb the techtree with the ressources they have.

First off there is no tech tree for this game. A tech tree has the structure of a lattice. How technologies work in this game is different, from what I can tell. It isn't like anyone learns "engine making" as all of the characters already "know" the steps in making an engine, as they don't lack the ability in knowing how to do so. Only age restrictions limit a character making an engine if they have a timing belt.

It's also not all about progression. A muddy iron vein requires less work to get iron from as an Eve than an iron vein that needs a pick to use. It gets harder to get at some resources as time goes on, and that isn't progression. Food generational decline also makes that clear, and there is no progression of people's digestive powers as time goes on overall, though cravings provide an exception to that rule.

There also exist only so many tiers of progression. No tier has infinite resources.

Lastly, updates kill lineages (though not their members) like this recent one where some white lady came in while I was Eve: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=7211317

So, make no mistake, there is limited overall lifespan for families.

And there's limited overall lifespan for every player. Check the title. Also check the screen after every life. It says "YOU DIED", always has, and perhaps always will.

Dodge wrote:

We have limited coal on earth does it mean our production of electricity is limited by it?
No, because we where able to find other sources like nuclear and renewable energy and in the future who knows what we will find out.

There aren't "other resources" like that in OHOL. Scrapping steel, which might seem like the closest thing, doesn't return at the same rate as that of which it got obtained.

Dodge · 2021-03-29 05:48:17

Spoonwood wrote:

...

Ok i already adressed all your points now you're just being dense, if you dont get it you dont get it.

Oh btw nice contradiction "because all definitions of "survival" involve continuing to exist." "Also check the screen after every life. It says "YOU DIED", always has, and perhaps always will."

Does that mean it's not a survival game because you die no matter what of old age

You're either showing extremly bad faith and go into ridiculous ammounts of nitpicking and mental gymnastics to try to contradict my points (and end up with ridiculous arguments) just for the sake of contradictiing them or you simply fail to understand the point, not sure.

Just to be clear limited ressources doesn't mean that you cant continue survival, climbing the tech tree means new ways to survive and access to new ressources or/and different ways to use them.

The challenging part is climbing the tech tree while having limited ressources AND in the presence of other civilisations that try to do the same.

Scenarios that the dev want like interaction between civilisations, war and peace dynamics, trading ressources etc happen partly because of this (and other reasons).

My point is that they dont happen in game because these conditions are not met, now if you dont understand how the world works and all the social aspects of it then that would explain why you fail to understand that point.

JonySky · 2021-03-29 15:20:02

Dodge, this has no relation to what is being talked about here, but since this forum is dead I will not create a new post for this ...

I would like you to see this conversation of 2019, between you and me
I need to know what you think of the game now in 2021 ...

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7651

do you think the game has gotten better?
Do you think there is hope for OHOL?

It's funny, I thought this game would improve and I was so wrong!

Last edited by JonySky (2021-03-29 15:34:58)

DestinyCall · 2021-03-29 20:48:36

JonySky wrote:

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7651

do you think the game has gotten better?
Do you think there is hope for OHOL?
It's funny, I thought this game would improve and I was so wrong!

From that thread back in 2019, there was the following post:

Baker wrote:

Whatever wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/b34bw0Z.png

Expectation: Build a civilization that from the ground up, Work with more advanced technology as time progresses. Each weekly update expands on the tech tree. By now I would've expected to be much closer to modern-day, Certainly didn't think we'd still be this primitive.

Reality: Post Apocalyptic PvP game, Defend your town from an increasing number of trolls. Updates are rarely content and mostly gimmicks nobody asked for. Most everyday tech is still the same as it was, Apart from water and mining. We still use fires in cities the same way Eve did.

That reality still holds true today. Our basic lives are primitive and crude. We keep our babies warm with a bonfire while wearing top hats and fancy dresses. We have trucks, race cars and primitive planes, but we bake our bread in an adobe oven and wear rabbit skin backpacks.

This game is such a weird mish-mash of primitive and advanced technology. And the current close-proximity between villages confuses tech progression even further by encouraging people to seek out Eve camps and drop a bunch of end-game resources on new villages ... or hunt for an old abandoned town to repopulate, instead of moving up the tech tree naturally.

There have been some real advances and significant improvements since 2019. But so many updates were not well-thought out or fully integrated with the rest of the game in a meaningful way. I have no sense of forward movement. It just feels like we have been wandering around aimlessly for three years.

This game feels like it is at war with itself. It needs a better development direction and clearer goals.

JonySky · 2021-03-30 07:52:06

I agree with you DestinyCall

This game started to fall when crude cars, radios and airplanes were implemented and magic is used to solve problems.

It was at this point that all the logic of the game went to shit and we discovered that the game does not have a clear objective.

In the update of the crude cars, I could observe that nonsense objects were beginning to be implemented, outside the technology tree of the current game, and I could also observe that the older technologies are not updated, they are forgotten since the developer no longer has want to work on it.

Objects are being implemented that are not even necessary in the current game, time is being wasted and efforts are being wasted in developing new objects that nobody has requested, and that transform OHOL into a lot of objects of various technologies with no relationship between these

The game does not need more objects, it needs an objective (I've been saying it for a long time)
OHOL needs a road map

I would love to see Jason work for a week or several alone on a road map for OHOL
and leave behind the sloppy improvisation

The irrigation system is another example of a poorly developed object

The only advantage of the irrigation system is saving water

But is this really any use? What is the use of saving water if the city dies before the end of the day

Do you think that the novice or the casual player will visualize that using the irrigation system saves water?

Not even work is saved! It is easier to water 10 berry bushes with a bowl than with an irrigation system that most of the time is behind a property fence to prevent it from being stolen or destroyed!

The irrigation system must have visible advantages! (for example a more abundant harvest)
Of course, for that we also need something that counteracts more food (for example pests or freezing winters that kill the crops)
Of course, for that we need silos to store food and be able to spend the winter ...and of course we need a well developed temperature mechanics... and here comes the problem ... all this must be planned well, and it is a lot of effort and possibly you need a better game engine ... and that is not going to happen

It is useless for Jason to return to the development of the game and implement more objects without meaning and without a clear objective

OHOL has many issues that should be checked
Temperature
Balance
racism
griefers
sloppy patches
die mechanic
inconsistencies

the game needs to consider a new engine
the game needs an direction
The game needs consistency
The game does not need more magic

trade
war
migrations
adoptions
religions
have been reduced to spontaneous role-playing games
Great ideas that may attract new players, who have been burned to the ground

If you want to play a game where 80% is to create varieties of food until you get bored and role-play this is your game, but if you are looking for something else, this is not your game

I have left OHOL for a long time because it does not motivate me to play, there is no reason to spend 60 minutes making food or any absurd and useless object ...

At least before, I could kill some griefer and save a city
or save a little girl and continue the family line in a satellite city
or live with another family and create a multicultural city
there were stories to tell! ...
now, OHOL is a game that the more time passes, the less things we can do ... with each update it becomes more bland and more limited

no problems have been solved, just sloppy patches have been created to hide a reality ... that the engine is very deficient and that updates are created with minimal effort

It's like putting an air freshener in a pig farm, if you are near the air freshener it seems that it smells a little better than in the rest of the farm, but if you move away from the air freshener you can smell the reality of the place

Last edited by JonySky (2021-05-14 12:34:08)

DiscardedSlinky · 2021-03-30 08:08:18

hey

Morti · 2021-03-30 08:21:58

Hi there.

Spoonwood · 2021-03-30 17:05:52

Dodge wrote:

Oh btw nice contradiction "because all definitions of "survival" involve continuing to exist."

You haven't provided any proposition A and the negation of that proposition A both asserted by me. There is no contradiction in the proposition that all definitions of survival involve continuing to exist. If a being does not exist, then it does not survive. If a being survives, then it has to exist.

Dodge wrote:

Does that mean it's not a survival game because you die no matter what of old age

It does mean that it's not an individual survival game of indefinite duration, yes. Again, survival necessarily implies existence. And without existence there is not survival. No exceptions.

Dodge wrote:

You're either showing extremly bad faith and go into ridiculous ammounts of nitpicking and mental gymnastics to try to contradict my points (and end up with ridiculous arguments) just for the sake of contradictiing them or you simply fail to understand the point, not sure.

You use those words as an excuse for thinking about concepts and speaking consistently. You haven't shown an interest in sticking to what concepts mean and following them to their logical conclusions.

Dodge wrote:

Just to be clear limited ressources doesn't mean that you cant continue survival, climbing the tech tree means new ways to survive and access to new ressources or/and different ways to use them.

All tech trees are finite. This game, nor any other game, has ever had an infinite tech tree. There is no climbing of any tech tree in this game, for sure, indefinitely. Limited resources means finite opportunity with respect to survival. So, on the contrary, limited resources DOES mean that a lineage doesn't have the ability to continue to survive. There also isn't any definable duration to measure when a lineage has survived, as we can't agree on some goal for lineages. Thus, the notion of "multiplayer survival" in terms of lineage survival isn't consistent with what the game is, and isn't consistent with "everything runs out".

Dodge wrote:

The challenging part is climbing the tech tree while having limited ressources AND in the presence of other civilisations that try to do the same.
Scenarios that the dev want like interaction between civilisations, war and peace dynamics, trading ressources etc happen partly because of this (and other reasons).

Those factors pale in comparison to (material, not moral) *inequality* as a factor in trade (as Jordan Peterson pointed out in a conversation recently with Brett Weinstein). A mechanic trades with a banker, because the mechanic is better at fixing things and worse at banking, while the banker is better at banking matters and worse at fixing things. That may also be why the exchange system in this game is as bad as it is, because the characters remain so equal, as perhaps most dramatically illustrated in how females in OHOL are as a strong rule as capable at chopping trees as males are, ceterus paribus, something which is extremely unrealistic. And it's not so much that men are better than women, but rather that the sexes are so damn equal, which flies in the face of why sexual dimorphism exists in the real world.

Dodge wrote:

The challenging part is climbing the tech tree while having limited ressources AND in the presence of other civilisations that try to do the same.

Making an engine or doing an oil rig is not as difficult as town management or managing town design. Also, climbing the tech tree can be a trap, since importing water from distant sources and/or even trying to teach people how to conserve resources may be, and sometimes is a better survival strategy. An engine and kerosene tanks are useless if the last girl in town can't find food or wants to strip naked and run off to the middle of nowhere, or quits solely out of boredom.

Dodge wrote:

My point is that they dont happen in game because these conditions are not met, now if you dont understand how the world works and all the social aspects of it then that would explain why you fail to understand that point.

Which gets said as if there does exist someone who understands *all* the social aspects of playing with random people on the internet. You fool yourself if you believe that anyone understand all such social aspects or ever could.

Spoonwood · 2021-03-30 17:29:52

DestinyCall wrote:

That reality still holds true today. Our basic lives are primitive and crude. We keep our babies warm with a bonfire while wearing top hats and fancy dresses. We have trucks, race cars and primitive planes, but we bake our bread in an adobe oven and wear rabbit skin backpacks.
This game is such a weird mish-mash of primitive and advanced technology. And the current close-proximity between villages confuses tech progression even further by encouraging people to seek out Eve camps and drop a bunch of end-game resources on new villages ... or hunt for an old abandoned town to repopulate, instead of moving up the tech tree naturally.
There have been some real advances and significant improvements since 2019. But so many updates were not well-thought out or fully integrated with the rest of the game in a meaningful way. I have no sense of forward movement. It just feels like we have been wandering around aimlessly for three years.
This game feels like it is at war with itself. It needs a better development direction and clearer goals.

I agree with this. The encouragement of dropping later game resources on Eve camps happens, in part, because of the pip drain rate. It also happens, because sometimes some town is on a pump and needs more tires. Even if they started from scratch going shallow well to deep well to newcomen pump, it can still happen that say tans die out and someone else needs latex. So someone from an advanced camp comes into the true (or truish) Eve camp and then has to throw buckets at them and ask for latex and/or palm oil. I saw one streamer RainieDash in this lineage: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6760220 do it a while back in a truck coming from a ginger camp on a pump, which already seemed strange dhaving a truck, and somehow the truck had tools like an axe and shovel which she threw at the tan. A week or so ago I was literally Eve starting from scratch, and some tan comes in on a rubber tire horsecart and throws bowls of palm oil on the ground (not a single bucket of latex... oh well).

People also scavenge from dead camps sometimes, I think, to discourage people from resettling old towns (resettling a shallow well or deep well town might be alright at least sometimes... resettling a late stage pump town or a diesel water pump is highly questionable). And yea, people are kind of encouraged to resettle old towns when I think about it, with how much more than have than fresh spots that start from scratch. Then again, old towns often have weaknesses or design characteristics that I don't particularly care for or have trouble seeing enough advantages of (e. g. there's rarely berry bushes and carrots close to the sheep pen and oven... yea, I know use a bucket or cart to overcome that, but the weakest players will run out trying to feed a bunch of sheep inefficiently spending a lot of time moving around and the benefit is the ease in seeing what other people are doing?... I'm not sure the balance was good at the very least.). Or old towns have clutter issues. Or buildings which are questionable, and not just by people like me who don't like buildings for walls taking up space, using up resources for butt logs or branches, their lack of heat benefit because of being too big, or taking hours before any benefit even comes into play, with so much time spent by players making them (which isn't so bad now with the current player average of 30-50, but likely would be worse if bs2 were at or near maximum capacity).

Dodge · 2021-03-30 18:25:31

JonySky wrote:

I need to know what you think of the game now in 2021 ...
do you think the game has gotten better?
Do you think there is hope for OHOL?

It tried to get better but got worse in its attempt to get better, hopefully Jason will learn from all the failed experiments and make something better out of it, he already knows that what there is currently is not good it's just that he didn't have any better solution to the long lasting design issue he's struggling with, so he implemented all those mechanics to artificially make something that should come organically.

I remember him saying that he was probably done doing big changes to the game but that was just after working on a lot of coding heavy updates, so i really dont know about the future of this game, maybe it will stay stuck in this bad place or maybe something better will be implemented and all those dumb mechanics will be removed.

All i can personally do is suggest the best solutions i can think of and hope for the best, Jason is unavailable for any feedback at the moment so i cant tell for sure if the game will stay like that or if those solutions will lead to something different.

Spoonwood wrote:

...

You talk a lot but you dont say much and your arguments are so nit picky and missing the point that i wont even adress them, except the following:

Spoonwood wrote:

So, on the contrary, limited resources DOES mean that a lineage doesn't have the ability to continue to survive.

Have you ever heard of renevable ressources?

At first you use the non renewable ones like coal to make electricity because they are easily accessible and dont require an advanced level of tecnological development but eventually you move on to the next thing until you either die becsause you couldnt reach a self sustainable state or survive if you make it.

Try to imagine an alternate reality where we didnt go beyond coal and all the consequences of failling to progress, would we have all died?, would people kill each other for the last lumps of coal?, would we have regressed to a period without electricity?

You're so hangup on a certain idea of survival that it's impossible to have a reasonnable conversation with you.

Earth is limited in size and ressources and that's part of the reason all that happened in our own history of building civilisations actually happened, if earth would be infinite things would be way different and if we knew that our species couldn't really die but infinitly respawn in the same world no matter what it would be even more different and if after death we could respawn in one of the other families it would be even even more different.

That's my point there is key differences between our world and the in game world that make it impossible for similar situations to happen, obviously it's a game and some things are going to be different but those key aspect are big enough of a difference to make the situations that Jason want to happen not happen in game.

Spoonwood wrote:

as Jordan Peterson pointed out in a conversation recently with Brett Weinstein

You listen to Jordan Peterson? that explains a lot...

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